Don't deny the Rapture and be left behind!!!

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L.A.M.B.

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Yes!! Children of God will be caught up to heaven at the rapture but those that deny the rapture must try to go through the years of the great tribulation first!!! Be smart and believe!!!





I still deny your view which I think you've posted about 3 times on this thread already.
Furthermore rage is a sin.

There is NO SUCH PRE RAPTURE ,you are misguided and mis taught. Forget what your teachers have said unto you and let the Holy Ghost lead you through the word.

THOSE WHO ARE LED BY THE SPIRIT OF GOD ARE THE CHILDREN OF GOD!
 
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stunnedbygrace

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I still deny your view which I think you've posted about 3 times on this thread already.
Furthermore rage is a sin.

There is NO SUCH PRE RAPTURE ,you are misguided and mis taught. Forget what your teachers have said unto you and let the Holy Ghost lead you through the word.

THOSE WHO ARE LED BY THE SPIRIT OF GOD ARE THE CHILDREN OF GOD!

As with every argument in here, there are verses to support both “sides.”
For instance,
Jesus was the Son of God.
Jesus was God.
If a man argues He was only one of those, the man does not have the truth.

Every argument in here is like that. If you really, really set your mind to understanding the arguments, you will see that the men on BOTH sides do not have the balance.
 
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stunnedbygrace

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As with every argument in here, there are verses to support both “sides.”
For instance,
Jesus was the Son of God.
Jesus was God.
If a man argues He was only one of those, the man does not have the truth.

Every argument in here is like that. If you really, really set your mind to understanding the arguments, you will see that the men on BOTH sides do not have the balance.

The clearest example of this being true that I have found is in Proverbs.
4 Don’t answer the foolish arguments of fools,
or you will become as foolish as they are.

5 Be sure to answer the foolish arguments of fools,
or they will become wise in their own estimation.

It’s like God left us a clue here. He didn’t divide it up with one part being in one book and the other being in a totally different place as He has with all the other verses. (If He had, they’d be arguing about it too!)
 
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Enoch111

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No one has ever gone up to heaven..
Actually hundreds of thousands (millions?) have gone up to Heaven.
1. Enoch the seventh from Adam went to Heaven
2. Moses was in Heaven since he met Christ at His transfiguration
3. Elijah the prophet who was taken up in a heavenly chariot, who also met Christ at His transfiguration
4. Christ Himself several times.
5. All the OT saints who were in Hades (but after the resurrection of Christ)
6. Beginning with Stephen, all the NT saints after the ascension of Christ
7. Paul who went to Heaven, but also returned to earth
8. The apostle John, who also went to Heaven, and returned to earth

What Christ said in John 3:13 was to indicate His own uniqueness. (1) He descended from Heaven, but (2) He was still in Heaven, and (3) He would ascend back to Heaven. Only God the Son could do this.

And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but He that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Christ's ascension was unique in that He had the power to ascend up to Heaven without any assistance. No doubt, He was surrounded by angels while He ascended, but He had already ascended up to Heaven on the day of His resurrection (perhaps more than once). But how could He still be in Heaven, while He was on earth? That is because He is God, and in the Spirit He was also in Heaven while on earth.
 

L.A.M.B.

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As with every argument in here, there are verses to support both “sides.”
For instance,
Jesus was the Son of God.
Jesus was God.
If a man argues He was only one of those, the man does not have the truth.

Every argument in here is like that. If you really, really set your mind to understanding the arguments, you will see that the men on BOTH sides do not have the balance.


I'm not into arguing the word with male nor female. ALL of God's word is truth and has to be rightly divided through the Spirit's guidance.

I answer for my beliefs ONLY, how I study and pray, what I let the Spirit show me and how I love and treat others.

After I've given scripture in context and still one refuses the TRUTH, it's on that person.
He has multiple threads on his belief of this.
 

bbyrd009

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Actually hundreds of thousands (millions?) have gone up to Heaven.
my guess would be that those instances are "heavens," but i srsly doubt that the Bible is lying @ No one has ever gone up to heaven... esp considering all of the supporting vv
Christ's ascension was unique in that He had the power to ascend up to Heaven without any assistance. No doubt, He was surrounded by angels while He ascended, but He had already ascended up to Heaven on the day of His resurrection (perhaps more than once). But how could He still be in Heaven, while He was on earth? That is because He is God, and in the Spirit He was also in Heaven while on earth.
so go with that then, if you prefer, but i would at least prepare for the possibility/likelyhood that you are mistaken, and speaking about something which you do not know, yet say that you do (which is wadr a big clue imo)
 

Aunty Jane

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Don't deny the Rapture and be left behind!!!
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
13 And now, dear brothers, I want you to know what happens to a Christian when he dies so that when it happens, you will not be full of sorrow, as those are who have no hope. 14 For since we believe that Jesus died and then came back to life again, we can also believe that when Jesus returns, God will bring back with him all the Christians who have died.

15 I can tell you this directly from the Lord: that we who are still living when the Lord returns will not rise to meet him ahead of those who are in their graves. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a mighty shout and with the soul-stirring cry of the archangel and the great trumpet-call of God. And the believers who are dead will be the first to rise to meet the Lord. 17 Then we who are still alive and remain on the earth will be caught up with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and remain with him forever. 18 So comfort and encourage each other with this news.===Caught up IS the rapture. After the years of the great tribulation Jesus will return to earth and bring the raptured believers with Him and defeat all evil and set up His eternal kingdom here on earth and God will have His home here for all eternity!. PTL
First of all that is an appallingly bad translation of the Bible you are using, and second of all there is no such thing as the "rapture" where some are taken up and others left behind......not in the way you imagine anyway.

Looking at the big picture, which takes time and study, you have to understand why God is taking some humans to heaven in the first place. Since he already has a large spiritual family there who were created to live in that realm, God created humans and other mortal creatures to live in a material realm and to enjoy his material creation just as they enjoy his spiritual creation. So why would he need to take any human to heaven?

The Bible answers that question.....and it centers around the "Kingdom of God"....so, what is God's Kingdom?
A kingdom is a "king" and the "dom"ain over which he rules. So we know that Jesus is the appointed King but where is his domain?

In the garden of Eden, before man's fall into sin, there was no mention of a King or a Kingdom or a savior, or even heaven or hell......so the necessity for a kingdom took place because of man's fall into sin. Humankind lost their relationship with God through Adam's disobedience, (Romans 5:12) and God instituted the means by which we could get it back.

It came at great cost...with God offering the life of his son in exchange for the life Adam took from all of us. Jesus took on that role willingly, out of love.

Humans needed the best King to guide them back into reconciliation with God, and he would choose some from "among mankind" to assist Jesus in his role as King and High Priest...(Revelation 14:3-4)....those chosen to rule with him as "kings and priests" being former humans, will have compassion and understand the human condition so much better than any spirit creature would. Even Jesus has spent time in the flesh and understood the problems of the fallen condition of those around him.

These chosen ones (the elect) the Bible says will be part of the "first resurrection". (Revelation 20:6) Being first in time and in importance, there will be a second or general resurrection after Jesus has cleansed the earth of all wickedness and introduced his Kingdom to rule redeemed mankind. (John 5:28-29) No one is "left behind" because the "goats" are separated from the "sheep" and thrown into the "lake of fire"...the place reserved for satan and his cronies. (Matthew 25:31-33, 41, 46) The only ones remaining on earth are those who held to their faith in God and his son, pictured as "a great multitude", who "come out of the great tribulation". (Revelation 7:13-14)
 

Aunty Jane

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So getting back to your scripture reference....
Let's take it from a more reliable translation in modern English (NASB).....we'll break it up....
"13 We do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, concerning those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who have no hope."
So, clearly those who are "asleep" (Gk "koimaō") are those who have died. There is no need to overly "grieve" because of the "hope" of the resurrection of the dead.

"14 Since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, in the same way God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep through Jesus."
Believing that Jesus died and rose again, we see that those who have "fallen asleep through Jesus" i.e. those who were endowed with "the heavenly hope" will experience the same death and resurrection as he did. What was that? Peter answers...(1 Peter 3:18)
"For Christ also died for sins once for all. . . .having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit". These were to receive a spiritual resurrection like Jesus did in order to enter heaven. As mentioned, this was to take place first, when Jesus was to take up his kingship at the time of his promised return. When was that to be?

"15 For we say this to you by a revelation from the Lord: We who are still alive at the Lord’s coming will certainly have no advantage over those who have fallen asleep."
So those who have been "asleep" in their graves a very long time, will be resurrected first. That will be before the gathering of his remaining ones still on earth when he comes as judge.

None of the elect had gone to heaven before Jesus returned, because Jesus had to wait for certain events to take place on earth, and so they did too. (Psalm 110:1-2)

The Lord's "coming" I believe is misunderstood because the word used in Matthew 24:3 in Greek means "presence" not "coming". So Jesus "presence" was tied up with the "sign" he gave at Matthew 24:3-14. All these things were to take place at his return, so Jesus is already here, overseeing the work that he assigned to his disciples in this "time of the end". (Matthew 28:19-20) His "presence" was the beginning of "the last days".....and his "coming" as judge is a completely separate event, that was to take place at the end.

"16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the archangel’s voice, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first."
Do you see the chain of events and in the order in which they take place? Christ was to "descend from heaven" with an "Archangel's voice" and call those of the "elect" who had died faithful down through history, out of their graves....these were to "rise first"....and they began to be resurrected when Christ first made his "presence" apparent. He gave a "sign" because his return was not observable by the world.


Those who believe that all the faithful went straight to heaven upon their death, are mistaken. All 'slept' in their graves awaiting the time when Jesus would awaken them. They knew it was in the future but they did not know when.

"17 Then we who are still alive will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and so we will always be with the Lord."
Only when the full number of the 144,000 who were still in their graves are resurrected, will Jesus gather the remaining ones who are still alive when he returns...these have no need to "sleep" but will be transformed instantly, leaving their physical bodies behind and experiencing a spiritual rebirth to join their companions in their roles as "kings and priests" over redeemed ones on earth.

"18 Therefore encourage one another with these words."
This is the hope they found encouraging.....what would be the point of them hanging around in heaven waiting for thousands of earth years to pass?
Better to sleep as if in a state of suspended animation, and be awakened when their new role was to begin. The dead are not conscious as Solomon said. (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10)
 
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stunnedbygrace

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The Lord's "coming" I believe is misunderstood because the word used in Matthew 24:3 in Greek means "presence" not "coming".

More playing around with word meanings? Now we are to take the word come, or coming and change it to “presence” when we read it, like thus:
I presence soon.
I am presencing suddenly.
But when I presence again, will I find trust on the earth?

You do this with the entire Bible. It’s what men have taught you to do. It’s obscene what has been done to you.
 
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stunnedbygrace

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If the rapture is true-- which I don't believe it is, but I surely could be wrong about that, me and a great majority of other Christians--I will be caught up with Jesus too because he has saved me. There's nothing you have to do to make sure you'll be saved as long as you abide in Jesus and he in you. Well, you and I will find this out very soon. This life is very brief.

The gathering together as I have pieced together doesn’t have to do with saved or unsaved, but with sifted and tried on earth versus needing more sifting. Saved to eternal life means just that. It’s not eternal life if it can be taken back. That anyone who receives the Spirit of God will live forever is settled, despite the protestations of men.

For us who will live forever, there are then questions, but not that one!
 

amigo de christo

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The gathering together as I have pieced together doesn’t have to do with saved or unsaved, but with sifted and tried on earth versus needing more sifting. Saved to eternal life means just that. It’s not eternal life if it can be taken back. That anyone who receives the Spirit of God will live forever is settled, despite the protestations of men.

For us who will live forever, there are then questions, but not that one!
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amigo de christo

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I haven’t. In a great house there are both vessels of honor and vessels of dishonor. There’s wealthy and there’s saved as if through fire.
Yeah but anyone who dont hold the faith firm to the end , WAS not of us . NOW THERE IS A SERIOUS LIE
growing amongst the churches and i must warn and do so gravely .
WE cannot enter into the all inclusive lie . We must not believe it nor follow it . ITS A LIE .
And if one once did believe that they had to beleive in and confess JESUS to be saved
but later get moved away from that hope and into the all inclusive many path hope , THEY AINT GONNA LIKE what they GET TOLD .
A hint . I NEVER KNEW YA . SO i must warn against this all inclusive we are one unity lie that over ninety eight percent of churches
are already under to some degree or another . ITS BAD SISTER . REAL BAD . WE cant partake of it .
 

stunnedbygrace

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A new Gallup poll came out on percentage of Americans who believe there’s a God. It’s been going down.
 
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Aunty Jane

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More playing around with word meanings? Now we are to take the word come, or coming and change it to “presence” when we read it, like thus:
I presence soon.
I am presencing suddenly.
But when I presence again, will I find trust on the earth?

You do this with the entire Bible. It’s what men have taught you to do. It’s obscene what has been done to you.
For pity’s sake sbg, please go and do some Bible study......the words “presence” and “coming” are two different words with two different meanings. Both are seen in the scriptures. “Playing around with meanings” is what was done with the scripture you rely on.

At Philippians 2:12, Paul speaks of the Philippian Christians as obeying “not during my presence [pa·rou·siʹai] only, but now much more readily during my absence [a·pou·siʹai].” And at 2 Corinthians 10:10-11, after referring to those who said that “his letters are weighty and forceful, but his presence [pa·rou·siʹa] in person is weak and his speech contemptible”....some decent Bible study will dispel your ignorance and actually teach you something. Are you afraid to learn? Are you afraid that it might make you change your view of some things which you seem to cling to without anything holding them up except a perception of what you think the Bible says based on inadequate translation....?

If you took roll call in a Greek classroom a child will not raise their hand and say “coming”...they would say “present”......they aren’t coming, but have already arrived (parousia)......see the difference?
Closed minds will never allow the truth to penetrate...you see, what has been done to you IMO, is obscene....it is a blindness you cannot acknowledge and as long as you fail to see the implications of that, the ignorance will remain.....but that is your choice.