Don't Let The Times Trouble You

[quietthinker]

Perhaps you think you can fool those who actually do... study their Bible as written, because you are so deceived and deceive others along with yourself.

The Pharisees studied the OT scriptures till they could recite whole books from memory. So what! They murdered the very one they were studying about......so much for all their studying!

 

[Davy]

This does not line up with scripture.

What I said there DOES align with Bible Scripture of what Jesus taught there in His Olivet discourse.

Now maybe it doesn't align with what you have been taught... by false Pre-trib rapture theory preachers, if that's who you've been listening to, so it's easy to understand then why you don't agree.

Jesus told us in Matthew that He would return IMMEDIATELY after the Tribulations. Matthew 24:29

And the immediate prelude to His coming includes the sun being darkened, the moon going dark, stars falling from heaven, etc. ... neither of which allow for any time of peace after the Tribulation period before He comes.

You don't actually realize what you said in the above paragraph, do you?

What you said points to a false belief that there has to be a time of 'peace' immediately after... the tribulation. It shows you actually FAILED to understand what you quoted from Matthew 24:29 above!

The time of "Peace and safety" happens PRIOR to the Matthew 24:29 verse.

Verse 29 is about the ENDING of the "great tribulation" on the "day of the Lord" (last day when Jesus returns)...

Joel 2:10-11
10 The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:
11 And the LORD shall utter His voice before His army: for His camp is very great: for He is strong That executeth His word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?
KJV


And by the way, these 30-31 verses also go with that verse 29 event...

Matt 24:30-31
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

 

[GEN2REV]

What I said there DOES align with Bible Scripture of what Jesus taught there in His Olivet discourse.

Now maybe it doesn't align with what you have been taught... by false Pre-trib rapture theory preachers, if that's who you've been listening to, so it's easy to understand then why you don't agree.



You don't actually realize what you said in the above paragraph, do you?

What you said points to a false belief that there has to be a time of 'peace' immediately after... the tribulation. It shows you actually FAILED to understand what you quoted from Matthew 24:29 above!

The time of "Peace and safety" happens PRIOR to the Matthew 24:29 verse.

Verse 29 is about the ENDING of the "great tribulation" on the "day of the Lord" (last day when Jesus returns)...

Joel 2:10-11
10 The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:
11 And the LORD shall utter His voice before His army: for His camp is very great: for He is strong That executeth His word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?
KJV


And by the way, these 30-31 verses also go with that verse 29 event...

Matt 24:30-31
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

Nope.

You're a real joker, aren't you.

From my post #69 to #82 of yours, YOU are the one who claimed there would be a time of peace between the Tribulation and Jesus' return.

Don't even try that circus sideshow nonsense of flipping things around on me. This is YOUR claim:

The time of "great tribulation" will be different; all those things, wars, famines, earthquakes, pestilences, will have stopped. That is when the false-Christ is to come and play God in Jerusalem just prior to Jesus' coming. He will be the great fixer, and thus the whole world will believe he is God having come.

Thus, my response that the claim you're making is NOT SCRIPTURAL.

Now, you can post a specific verse from Matt. 24 that proves your claim, or accept that you are wrong.

Joker!

 

[Davy]

Nope.

You're a real joker, aren't you.

From my post #69 to #82 of yours, YOU are the one who claimed there would be a time of peace between the Tribulation and Jesus' return.

Nope, you are totally wrong. I NEVER made the claim that the time of "Peace and safety" will be on the LAST DAY, which is what the Matthew 24:29 verse is about! So what you apparently are trying... to do, is to create another false time with that 29th verse that is NOT written!

What's the difference with what I'm saying then? Easy...

The false "Peace and safety" of 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 is... for the "great tribulation" time. The "great tribulation" (GT) does not end... until the event of Christ's coming! Got it? The GT lasts all the way to the very end of this world to the 'day' when Jesus comes. The pre-trib rapture theory instead falsely teaches that Jesus' coming happens PRIOR to the GT, which is false. This is why they also falsely teach that the "day of the Lord" happens DURING the GT, which idea is also false and not written. The "day of the Lord" happens ONLY on the last day when Jesus returns to gather His Church!

Don't even try that circus sideshow nonsense of flipping things around on me. This is YOUR claim:

Thus, my response that the claim you're making is NOT SCRIPTURAL.

Now, you can post a specific verse from Matt. 24 that proves your claim, or accept that you are wrong.

Joker!

YOU are the one trying to put on CIRCUS SHOW! by your LIES you like to tell. That is also what happens when trying to talk with someone deceived by man's false pre-trib rapture theory; they will tell any LIE they can to try and prop it up as being true. It is not, and God's written Word exposes it as a LIE from men.

 

[Davy]

The Pharisees studied the OT scriptures till they could recite whole books from memory. So what! They murdered the very one they were studying about......so much for all their studying!

Apostle Paul told Timothy to study to show himself approved of God, a workman who need not be ashamed, rightly dividing The Word of God (2 Timothy 2:15).

And for centuries, the Reformers fought the RCC and politicos in order to get God's written Word to His people, and that done by God's Hand.

Yet Apostle Paul showed in Romans 11 that the majority of his brethren the Jews are blinded by God's Hand until the 'fullness of the Gentiles' comes in (i.e., on the day of Christ's future return).

So just who is given to 'understand' God's Word today should never be confused with the blinded scribes and Pharisees which God Himself blinded so The Gospel would go to the Gentiles.

 

[quietthinker]

Apostle Paul told Timothy to study to show himself approved of God, a workman who need not be ashamed, rightly dividing The Word of God (2 Timothy 2:15).

And for centuries, the Reformers fought the RCC and politicos in order to get God's written Word to His people, and that done by God's Hand.

Yet Apostle Paul showed in Romans 11 that the majority of his brethren the Jews are blinded by God's Hand until the 'fullness of the Gentiles' comes in (i.e., on the day of Christ's future return).

So just who is given to 'understand' God's Word today should never be confused with the blinded scribes and Pharisees which God Himself blinded so The Gospel would go to the Gentiles.

You've missed my point Davy!

 

[Davy]

You've missed my point Davy!

No actually, I got it. And that's why I pointed to their 'blindness' which God has placed upon them for this world, so The Gospel would go to the Gentiles. When Jesus returns, their blindness will be removed. So we should never forget why they would not understand the OT prophecies about Christ, and thus crucify Him, it was by the Hand of our Heavenly Father, like Paul showed in Romans 11.

 

[quietthinker]

No actually, I got it. And that's why I pointed to their 'blindness' which God has placed upon them for this world, so The Gospel would go to the Gentiles. When Jesus returns, their blindness will be removed. So we should never forget why they would not understand the OT prophecies about Christ, and thus crucify Him, it was by the Hand of our Heavenly Father, like Paul showed in Romans 11.

Now you've confirmed that you've missed my point!

 

[Timtofly]

Anyone with the Holy Spirit wouldn't be subscribing to Pre-Trib in the first place. Revelation says true Christians have the testimony of Jesus, which means they understand and agree with the prophecies He revealed. It is simply not logical that a person can truly be following Jesus and yet believe He is wrong when He says He is returning after the Tribulation.

Jesus did not say the Second Coming was after the Tribulation.

Jesus said the Second Coming was after the tribulation of those days.

So not the same Tribulation you are thinking about.

 

[Davy]

Now you've confirmed that you've missed my point!

You're dreaming.

 

[Davy]

Jesus did not say the Second Coming was after the Tribulation.

YES HE DID. And it is written in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 emphatically, and it aligns perfectly with the gathering of the Church that Apostle Paul taught in 1 Thessalonians 4. So put out another LIE against God's Word why don't ya.

Jesus said the Second Coming was after the tribulation of those days.

So not the same Tribulation you are thinking about.

That is so... ignorant. You want His coming to rapture the Church to be prior to the tribulation so bad, you create vanity even against the simple English. The "great tribulation" IS "those days" He was speaking of!

Look how silly your idea is with going against what Jesus revealed...

Matt 24:21
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
KJV


Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

There can be NO debate as to what timing Jesus pointed to there.

The gathering event in verse 31 parallels 1 Thessalonians 4 about Jesus bringing the 'asleep' saints with Him when He comes. In the Mark 13:27 version, it's about His gathering of the "caught up" saints still alive on earth at His coming.

So either you are so... deceived with heeding men's false doctrines of a pre-trib rapture theory, or you intentionally try to deceive brethren with that false theory. I'd rather think you are just deceived from listening to men's false doctrines, and not the latter.

 

[Timtofly]

YES HE DID. And it is written in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 emphatically, and it aligns perfectly with the gathering of the Church that Apostle Paul taught in 1 Thessalonians 4. So put out another LIE against God's Word why don't ya.




That is so... ignorant. You want His coming to rapture the Church to be prior to the tribulation so bad, you create vanity even against the simple English. The "great tribulation" IS "those days" He was speaking of!

Look how silly your idea is with going against what Jesus revealed...

Matt 24:21
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
KJV


Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

There can be NO debate as to what timing Jesus pointed to there.

The gathering event in verse 31 parallels 1 Thessalonians 4 about Jesus bringing the 'asleep' saints with Him when He comes. In the Mark 13:27 version, it's about His gathering of the "caught up" saints still alive on earth at His coming.

So either you are so... deceived with heeding men's false doctrines of a pre-trib rapture theory, or you intentionally try to deceive brethren with that false theory. I'd rather think you are just deceived from listening to men's false doctrines, and not the latter.

So you have removed all tribulation from these verses:

"And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows. Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."

You have literally removed all tribulation from this set of verses. Because Jesus cannot come after these verses. Jesus can only come after your Great Tribulation.

 

[quietthinker]

You're dreaming.

I s'pose that throw away line has been used for centuries.

 

[Davy]

So you have removed all tribulation from these verses:

"And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows. Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."

You have literally removed all tribulation from this set of verses. Because Jesus cannot come after these verses. Jesus can only come after your Great Tribulation.

Now that's stupid. You really don't have anything to prove the false pre-trib rapture theory you're in love with, do you?

Famines, pestilences, and earthquakes, and wars and rumors of wars, have been happening in our times now. Haven't you noticed? Jesus said that was the "beginning of sorrows", but that the 'end' is not yet. And He did not say those 'sorrows' would end, but that was only the "beginning" of those sorrows.

The actual "great tribulation" time He showed begins with the coming of the false Messiah to place the "abomination of desolation" idol in Jerusalem. THAT... is about the "end" He was pointing to earlier in Matthew 24:6.

You are just all mixed up because of the false leaven doctrines of men you heed. No wonder you cannot understand what I'm showing directly from the Scriptures.