Don't Let The Times Trouble You

[Davy]

Many of today's preachers are just all over the place about the kind of times we are in today. And one of the main tactics of the pre-trib rapture theory churches is to use the crazy events going on in today's world to scare... you into heeding 'their' doctrine about the times of the end of this world. Just about all preachers in today's organizational church systems use that tactic also today, no doubt because the mainstream organizations tell them to. They are preaching that the actual time of "great tribulation" is going to be physically worse than the below revealing by Lord Jesus:

Notice what our Lord Jesus showed us about the events of the end, just prior to the "great tribulation"...

Matt 24:6-8
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
KJV

Jesus said we'd hear of wars and rumors of wars, but then said, "see that ye be not troubled". Now why would He say to not be troubled by that, because wars and rumors of wars going on sounds pretty troubling to me?

He said that because, "but the end is not yet". What "end"? The end of this world, about the time of "great tribulation" which is supposed to be a time of "Peace and safety" for the deceived according to Apostle Paul (1 Thessalonians 5:1-5).

Lord Jesus then revealed more events to occur prior to the time of "great tribulation" in the 7th verse above, about "... nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places." Now we have already been seeing those things in these last days. So are those events not... the "end" He was talking about? Yes, that's right.

The time of "great tribulation" will be different; all those things, wars, famines, earthquakes, pestilences, will have stopped. That is when the false-Christ is to come and play God in Jerusalem just prior to Jesus' coming. He will be the great fixer, and thus the whole world will believe he is God having come.

That time of wars, nation against nation, famines, pestilences, and earthquakes, we are in now, and have been for a while in this present generation. This time today is what Lord Jesus called "the beginning of sorrows". It is not the "great tribulation" just yet, but that is next, right around corner, starting with the event of the Matthew 24:15 verse about the pseudo-Christ placing the "abomination of desolation" idol in Jerusalem, demanding all bow to him in place of God.


The Great Contrast:

In Revelation 13:4, it is asked who can make war with the beast? That's a sign about what Lord Jesus said with - "but the end is not yet", meaning as long as wars and rumors of wars are going on, the end is not yet.

It means when we see all wars having stopped by that beast, it means he is in total control over all nations. And if one controls all nation's militaries, it can't go to war upon itself, and no one will be able to make war upon it to defeat it, at least not physically.

This is the 'contrast' our Lord Jesus wants us to recognize from His Word. Even in Daniel 8:23-25 we are shown a parallel to the beast king of Revelation for the end. It says a king of fierce countenance shall stand up (i.e., come to power). He will destroy using peace it says, meaning deceive the whole world (except Christ's elect) by creating world peace (i.e., the great contrast to today's times, the "Peace and safety" the deceived will then say). And even by his policy, he will cause "craft" to prosper by his hand it says.

Therefore, If you are deceived like the majority will be in that time of the 'end', it will mean all your desires, wants and needs will be provided for by that coming false Christ that comes first. Chicken in every pot for the deceived. All one need do to receive all that is simply bow in worship to that false-Messiah.

The Antichrist is not coming to make war upon the world, but only... upon those in Christ Jesus. The deceived he will already have in his hand, so no need to destroy the deceived. This is why Revelation 11 shows us when the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit kills God's two witnesses in Jerusalem, the deceived world will then rejoice and send each other gifts, because of the torment God's two witnesses caused upon them will have been ended by the false-Messiah. It means they will think to get back to their fake "Peace and safety" feeling the false-Messiah provided for them.

The actual "great tribulation" is about what then? It is SPIRITUAL, about spiritual death to one's soul by being deceived to worship that coming false-Messiah in place of The Father and The Son Jesus Christ. One can't get anymore 'dead' than their soul being condemned to perish at the future "lake of fire" event of Revelation 20. That... is what the coming great tribulation is about.

It will be a great tribulation thusly in two ways, for those in Christ it will be a time of physical suffering, and spiritual testing against the "hour of temptation" (i.e., the temptation to bow to the false-Messiah, and thus receive his blessings and comfort by taking his mark and worshipping him in place of Christ). For the deceived and the wicked, it will be a great tribulation upon their souls, because falling away to the coming false-Messiah will mean spiritual death.

Those who stand in Christ, refusing to bow in worship to the false-Messiah and also refusing his mark, may lose their flesh life, but they will have at least preserved their soul unto Christ Jesus. Believe me or not, but Lord Jesus actually said that in that kind of context in Luke 17:33...

Luke 17:33
33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life (psuche-soul) shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
KJV

This is why Lord Jesus also told us in Matthew 10:28 to not fear those who can kill our flesh body, but not our soul.

So don't fear brethren, be strong in the Faith and wait for our Lord Jesus to come, and refuse to bow to the false-Messiah that comes first. Not long after that false-Messiah shows up Jerusalem, Lord Jesus will come to destroy him, just as Apostle Paul wrote in 2 Thessalonians 2.

 

[Keraz]

Many of today's preachers are just all over the place about the kind of times we are in today.

I would say ALL of todays preachers are clueless and ignorant about Bible prophecy;

Isaiah 56:9-12 All you beasts of the open country and the forest, come and eat your fill. For all of Israel’s watchmen are blind, perceiving nothing, they are all as dumb dogs that cannot bark, dreaming and sleeping. They are like greedy dogs that can never be satisfied, they are shepherds unable to understand the truth, as they go their own way. They say: Come let us fetch wine, strong drink and we will swill it down. The future will be the same as today or better still!

Isaiah 29:9-12 If you confuse yourself, you will stay confused, if you blind yourself, you will stay blinded. Be drunk, but not with wine, for the Lord has poured upon you a spirit of deep stupor. He has closed the prophetic vision and sealed the means of discerning the future to you.


Jeremiah 14:11-13 The Lord said to me: Do not pray for the wellbeing of this people. Though they fast and worship Me, [but not in spirit and in truth] I shall not listen to their cry on the Day of My punishment. But Lord – their leaders and pastors say to them: you will not face the terrible sword of judgement and they preach prosperity and escape from tribulation.

Jeremiah 14:14-16 The Lord answered me: These are lies that your leaders are misleading the people with. I have not sent them, I have not given them My commission, or spoken to them. They are giving out false teachings, useless advice and their own foolish daydreams.

Therefore, I say about those teachers and pastors who speak falsely in My Name, they will meet their end in My Day of wrath, I shall pour down upon them the disaster they deserve.

2 Timothy 4:3-4 The time will come when people will not stand sound teaching, but each will go after their own desires and will only listen to teachers who give pleasant and easy outcomes. People will refuse to listen to true scriptural teaching. They will only believe fables and fanciful notions. 1 Timothy 1:7 Ref: REB.


‘Beasts of the field’, foreigners, non Israelites. Those who have ‘encroached onto the holy Land’. Jeremiah 12:14

‘Israel’s watchmen perceive nothing’, the veil that hides the true knowledge of God’s Word is upon them and todays teachers, because of false beliefs. 2 Peter 2:1-3

‘If you confuse yourself, you will stay confused’, Even when the truth is presented to people who think they have it all sorted, they just cannot see it. Isaiah 29:9-12, Jeremiah 6:10

‘They preach prosperity, the prosperity theology that gives a sense of false security and escape from tribulation’, The very wrong and pretentious idea of a pre tribulation rapture, that lulls people into thinking they need do nothing.

‘People will refuse to listen to true scriptural teaching’, 2 Peter 2:1-3

My Day of wrath: The great and terrible Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath. Rev 6:12-17, Zephaniah i:14-18, 2 Peter 3:7 The next prophesied event to happen.


But for those who make the effort to overcome the false teachings, the fictional books that proliferate on the book stalls and all the rubbish on the internet, there is hope: Psalms 78:1-8, Isaiah 55:1-3, Psalms 25:8-9, Psalms 27:11-12, Psalms 32:8, 2 Peter 1:19

 

[Davy]

I would say ALL of todays preachers are clueless and ignorant about Bible prophecy;

Isaiah 56:9-12 All you beasts of the open country and the forest, come and eat your fill. For all of Israel’s watchmen are blind, perceiving nothing, they are all as dumb dogs that cannot bark, dreaming and sleeping. They are like greedy dogs that can never be satisfied, they are shepherds unable to understand the truth, as they go their own way. They say: Come let us fetch wine, strong drink and we will swill it down. The future will be the same as today or better still!

Isaiah 29:9-12 If you confuse yourself, you will stay confused, if you blind yourself, you will stay blinded. Be drunk, but not with wine, for the Lord has poured upon you a spirit of deep stupor. He has closed the prophetic vision and sealed the means of discerning the future to you.


Jeremiah 14:11-13 The Lord said to me: Do not pray for the wellbeing of this people. Though they fast and worship Me, [but not in spirit and in truth] I shall not listen to their cry on the Day of My punishment. But Lord – their leaders and pastors say to them: you will not face the terrible sword of judgement and they preach prosperity and escape from tribulation.

Jeremiah 14:14-16 The Lord answered me: These are lies that your leaders are misleading the people with. I have not sent them, I have not given them My commission, or spoken to them. They are giving out false teachings, useless advice and their own foolish daydreams.

Therefore, I say about those teachers and pastors who speak falsely in My Name, they will meet their end in My Day of wrath, I shall pour down upon them the disaster they deserve.

2 Timothy 4:3-4 The time will come when people will not stand sound teaching, but each will go after their own desires and will only listen to teachers who give pleasant and easy outcomes. People will refuse to listen to true scriptural teaching. They will only believe fables and fanciful notions. 1 Timothy 1:7 Ref: REB.


‘Beasts of the field’, foreigners, non Israelites. Those who have ‘encroached onto the holy Land’. Jeremiah 12:14

‘Israel’s watchmen perceive nothing’, the veil that hides the true knowledge of God’s Word is upon them and todays teachers, because of false beliefs. 2 Peter 2:1-3

‘If you confuse yourself, you will stay confused’, Even when the truth is presented to people who think they have it all sorted, they just cannot see it. Isaiah 29:9-12, Jeremiah 6:10

‘They preach prosperity, the prosperity theology that gives a sense of false security and escape from tribulation’, The very wrong and pretentious idea of a pre tribulation rapture, that lulls people into thinking they need do nothing.

‘People will refuse to listen to true scriptural teaching’, 2 Peter 2:1-3

My Day of wrath: The great and terrible Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath. Rev 6:12-17, Zephaniah i:14-18, 2 Peter 3:7 The next prophesied event to happen.


But for those who make the effort to overcome the false teachings, the fictional books that proliferate on the book stalls and all the rubbish on the internet, there is hope: Psalms 78:1-8, Isaiah 55:1-3, Psalms 25:8-9, Psalms 27:11-12, Psalms 32:8, 2 Peter 1:19

Today is pretty much like the times the "house of Judah" and the "house of Israel" fallen into false worship. God's Word as written simply is not very popular even in many Churches today. They instead get their instructions from crept in unawares in some far away city that sends them Quarterly Bible sermons to preach on, and Quarterly Sunday school lessons to teach the classes. May God bless those Churches that do... stay in His Word as written, and teach directly out of HIS Word.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Many of today's preachers are just all over the place about the kind of times we are in today.

Absolutely, Many learned theologians CANNOT agree with each other! May God
Have MERCY on them! How is that "fellowship With JESUS CHRIST, And
ALL ”...speaking...the things which become Sound Doctrine!”
(Titus_2:1 cp "SAME mind And judgment!" 1_Corinthians_1:9-10)?

one of the main tactics of the pre-trib rapture theory churches is to use the crazy events going on in today's world to scare... you into heeding 'their' doctrine about the times of the end of this world.

1) Precious friend:
Tactics are UNnecessary to "scare people," Since PRE-TOJT Great GRACE
Departure is NOT about "the end of this world." (post-trib would be CLOSER
to that end.)

We may be close to "The END Of This Dispensation Of God's PURE GRACE,"
After which WILL "BEGIN" the Time Of JACOB's Trouble, heading toward the
"end of the world."

2)
We are not troubled, since we have heeded Paul, and his exhortations to be:

"Looking, Watching, And Patiently Waiting for Blessed HOPE!":

(2 Thessalonians 2:1; Romans 8:18-19; Romans 8:23; Romans 8:25;
1 Corinthians 1:7; Ephesians 6:12-18; Philippians 3:20; Colossians 4:1-3;
1 Thessalonians 1:10; 1 Thessalonians 5:5-11; Titus 2:13)

3)
Some of us "pre-tribbers" do not use tactics, we just simply show
The Biblical Evidence!:

Part I

God’s PRE - TOJT Great GRACE Departure!:

----------------------------------------------------------------------

LORD JESUS, we beseech Thee Now For Thy Divine Understanding
In This Thy Most Important Doctrine For our Comfort And Consolation.
Amen. (1 Thessalonians 4:18)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Time Of JACOB’s {Israel's} Trouble (TOJT), Ending With The
Second Coming, is found in God's Context:

God's Prophetic Program, Under LAW, gospel of the kingdom
(“ages” past/future) (Genesis-John; Hebrews-Revelation)

God’s “Earthly Kingdom” Purpose From “the foundation of the world”
(Matthew 25:34)

God's Purpose Prophesied “since the world began” (Luke 1:68-70; Acts 3:21!)

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:

Great GRACE Departure!

Pre-TOJT Resurrection/Departure of The Body Of CHRIST,
Ending God’s Age Of GRACE, Is Found In God's Other Context:

God's Revelation Of The Mystery, Under The Gospel Of The GRACE Of God!
{ Current = “But NOW!” } (Romans through Philemon!)

God’s “Heavenly Hidden” Purpose Before “the foundation of the world”
(Ephesians 1:4; 2 Timothy 1:9!)

God's Heavenly Purpose Kept Secret “since the world began”
(Romans 16:25; Ephesians 1:4-11, 3:5-9!)

-------------------

The Second Coming, According to Prophecy:

(1) Immediately After tribulation/4 signs, CHRIST, In His
Prophesied Second Advent, As KING Of kings, And LORD Of lords,
Is Coming From Heaven! (Matthew 24:29; Revelation 19:16, 11!)

(2) CHRIST Is Coming On a white horse, With Crowns On
His Head, And A Sword In His Mouth! (Revelation 19:12-15)

(3) CHRIST Is Coming With, (which Were In Heaven!),
His armies * on white horses! (Revelation 19:12-15)

(4) CHRIST Is Coming To earth With ONE army *, “All Of His holy angels,”
In Order To Judge/Make war/Smite And Rule the nations…
(Matthew 25:31; Revelation 19:11, 15)

(5) With Another trumpet (AFTER "the 7th angel trumpet” in heaven), on
the earth, Angels Are SENT, By The KING, TO: “gather the elect”...
(Matthew 24:31; Mark 13:27!)

(6)...for the “judgment of the Earthly Nations” By The Son of man, The King!
(Matthew 25:31-46!)

(7) Those Judged as righteous then enter the kingdom! And the UNrighteous
then Depart into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels!
(Matthew 25:34-46!)

To be continued...

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Part II

(Previously) The Second Coming, According to earthly Prophecy:

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:

The Great GRACE Departure, According to The Heavenly Mystery!:

(1) Immediately After GRACE Has ENDED/ZERO signs!:
CHRIST, As Head Of His Body, The Church, Will Descend From
Heaven! (Ephesians 1:19-23; Colossians 1:18; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17!)

(2) CHRIST Is Coming With A Shout, With the voice of an archangel,
And With The Trump of God! (1 Thessalonians 4:16!)

3) God (JESUS CHRIST) Will Bring With Him {those who Were With
Him In Heaven}, part Of His Own, those who are “asleep In JESUS!”
(2 Corinthians 5:8; Philippians 1:21-23; 1 Thessalonians 4:13!)

(4) CHRIST Descends With One archangel, Will resurrect those
asleep {in 3)} First, and Then, we “which are alive and remain,” {which
Is A Mystery!}, will be changed/all “incorruptible, And Caught Up”
together to meet The LORD in the air, in the “twinkling of an eye!”
(1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; 1 Corinthians 15:52-53!)

(5) CHRIST “Gathers His Body” To Himself, to Take them To Heaven...
(2 Thessalonians 2:1-3; 1 Corinthians 15:49; 2 Corinthians 12:2, 5:1-2;
Ephesians 1:3, 20, 2:6; Philippians 3:20; 2 Timothy 4:18!)

6)...For The Judgment Seat Of CHRIST, For HIS Heavenly Body,
By The Head Himself!... (Romans 2:6, 16, 14:10-12;
1 Corinthians 3:8-15, 4:5, 6:20; 2 Corinthians 5:10;
Ephesians 6:8; Colossians 3:24-25!)

(7a) ...After Judgment, the GRACE assembly Is Then Presented as
A Glorious Church, To CHRIST Himself!... (Ephesians 5:27!)

(7b) ...And, Then CHRIST Will Present His Body, holy and
unblameable and unreproveable, In His Sight, To His Father,
In Heaven, Where we Live * Forever And Ever! Amen!
(1 Thessalonians 3:13; Colossians 1:5, 22;
1 Corinthians 6:3; 2 Corinthians 5:1-2 KJB!)

* Note, The ONE army Of The Body Of CHRIST, Must "have been
assigned our Heavenly positions" for ruling and reigning! Amen?

---------------------------------------------------------------
LORD JESUS, thank You so much for Your Precious BLOOD,
Gift Of ETERNAL Salvation, And for Your Blessed Hope of
Glorification When You Come To Finally Gather us Home! Amen.
---------------------------------------------------------
Please Be Very Richly Edified, Encouraged, And Comforted! And:

Precious friend(s), see you In God's Great GloryLand!! ♫ ↑

 

[Truth7t7]

for those in Christ it will be a time of physical suffering, and spiritual testing against the "hour of temptation" (i.e., the temptation to bow to the false-Messiah, and thus receive his blessings and comfort by taking his mark and worshipping him in place of Christ). For the deceived and the wicked, it will be a great tribulation upon their souls, because falling away to the coming false-Messiah will mean spiritual death.

Those who stand in Christ, refusing to bow in worship to the false-Messiah and also refusing his mark, may lose their flesh life, but they will have at least preserved their soul unto Christ Jesus. Believe me or not, but Lord Jesus actually said that in that kind of context in Luke 17:33...

Luke 17:33
33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life (psuche-soul) shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
KJV

This is why Lord Jesus also told us in Matthew 10:28 to not fear those who can kill our flesh body, but not our soul.

So don't fear brethren, be strong in the Faith and wait for our Lord Jesus to come, and refuse to bow to the false-Messiah that comes first. Not long after that false-Messiah shows up Jerusalem, Lord Jesus will come to destroy him, just as Apostle Paul wrote in 2 Thessalonians 2.

The hour of earths temptation will be seen just prior to the Lords return in "Indigination", as the Church is "Protected" from this as seen below

I disagree with the claim this is in representation of the mark or image worship,that will be seen at the time the antichrist and false prophet are revealed

Gods Divine protection of the Church on earth during the tribulation, the hour of earths temptation

The Church on earth is instructed to enter their dwelling, until the Lords indignation is past, just like the passover in Egypt

Isaiah 26:20-21KJV
20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
21 For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

Revelation 3:10KJV
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

 

[Davy]

Absolutely, Many learned theologians CANNOT agree with each other! May God
Have MERCY on them! How is that "fellowship With JESUS CHRIST, And
ALL ”...speaking...the things which become Sound Doctrine!”
(Titus_2:1 cp "SAME mind And judgment!" 1_Corinthians_1:9-10)


1) Precious friend:
Tactics are UNnecessary to "scare people," Since PRE-TOJT Great GRACE
Departure is NOT about "the end of this world." (post-trib would be CLOSER
to that end.)

We may be close to "The END Of This Dispensation Of God's PURE GRACE,"
After which WILL "BEGIN" the Time Of JACOB's Trouble, heading toward the
"end of the world."

2)
We are not troubled, since we have heeded Paul, and his exhortations to be:

"Looking, Watching, And Patiently Waiting for Blessed HOPE!":

(2 Thessalonians 2:1; Romans 8:18-19; Romans 8:23; Romans 8:25;
1 Corinthians 1:7; Ephesians 6:12-18; Philippians 3:20; Colossians 4:1-3;
1 Thessalonians 1:10; 1 Thessalonians 5:5-11; Titus 2:13)

3)
Some of us "pre-tribbers" do not use tactics, we just simply show
The Biblical Evidence!:

Part I

God’s PRE - TOJT Great GRACE Departure!:

----------------------------------------------------------------------

LORD JESUS, we beseech Thee Now For Thy Divine Understanding
In This Thy Most Important Doctrine For our Comfort And Consolation.
Amen. (1 Thessalonians 4:18)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Time Of JACOB’s {Israel's} Trouble (TOJT), Ending With The
Second Coming, is found in God's Context:

God's Prophetic Program, Under LAW, gospel of the kingdom
(“ages” past/future) (Genesis-John; Hebrews-Revelation)

God’s “Earthly Kingdom” Purpose From “the foundation of the world”
(Matthew 25:34)

God's Purpose Prophesied “since the world began” (Luke 1:68-70; Acts 3:21!)

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:

Great GRACE Departure!

Pre-TOJT Resurrection/Departure of The Body Of CHRIST,
Ending God’s Age Of GRACE, Is Found In:

God's Revelation Of The Mystery, Under The Gospel Of The GRACE Of God!
{ Current = “But NOW!” } (Romans through Philemon!)

God’s “Heavenly Hidden” Purpose Before “the foundation of the world”
(Ephesians 1:4; 2 Timothy 1:9!)

God's Heavenly Purpose Kept Secret “since the world began”
(Romans 16:25; Ephesians 1:4-11, 3:5-9!)

-------------------

The Second Coming, According to Prophecy:

(1) Immediately After tribulation/4 signs, CHRIST, In His
Prophesied Second Advent, As KING Of kings, And LORD Of lords,
Is Coming From Heaven! (Matthew 24:29; Revelation 19:16, 11!)

(2) CHRIST Is Coming On a white horse, With Crowns On
His Head, And A Sword In His Mouth! (Revelation 19:12-15)

(3) CHRIST Is Coming With, (which Were In Heaven!),
His armies * on white horses! (Revelation 19:12-15)

(4) CHRIST Is Coming To earth With ONE army *, “All Of His holy angels,”
In Order To Judge/Make war/Smite And Rule the nations…
(Matthew 25:31; Revelation 19:11, 15)

(5) With Another trumpet (AFTER "the 7th angel trumpet” in heaven), on
the earth, Angels Are SENT, By The KING, TO: “gather the elect”...
(Matthew 24:31; Mark 13:27!)

(6)...for the “judgment of the Earthly Nations” By The Son of man, The King!
(Matthew 25:31-46!)

(7) Those Judged as righteous then enter the kingdom! And the UNrighteous
then Depart into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels!
(Matthew 25:34-46!)

To be continued...

Uh, 'watch' what??
Christ's Church is... God's Israel.

 

[Davy]

I got time, so I'll respond. You probably won't like it though.

Absolutely, Many learned theologians CANNOT agree with each other! May God
Have MERCY on them! How is that "fellowship With JESUS CHRIST, And
ALL ”...speaking...the things which become Sound Doctrine!”
(Titus_2:1 cp "SAME mind And judgment!" 1_Corinthians_1:9-10)

It's easy for all Christians to speak the 'same thing'. It's called keeping God's Word as written, and not heeding the traditions of men.

1) Precious friend:
Tactics are UNnecessary to "scare people," Since PRE-TOJT Great GRACE
Departure is NOT about "the end of this world." (post-trib would be CLOSER
to that end.)

Tactics are necessary for those men who falsely preach a Pre-trib Rapture, and the reason is simple. It's because scare tactics is what they throw at a new babe that just so happens to have read their Bible that shows the Pre-trib Rapture is false, and they begin to doubt and ask questions. It's simple, when you don't have the Truth to start with, you have to... rely on something else, which is always going to be opposite of the Truth. I prefer Jesus' Truth in His Word.

So let's see you HEED Jesus' Truth in the Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 Scriptures.

 

[quietthinker]

Don't Let The Times Trouble You
They usually don't but the Daily Telegraph does!

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Don't Let The Times Trouble You
They usually don't but the Daily Telegraph does!

When the Daily Telegraph reports get "worse and worser,"

Then Heaven Is Sounding "Sweeter And Sweetest!

 

[Davy]

When the Daily Telegraph reports get "worse and worser,"

Then Heaven Is Sounding "Sweeter And Sweetest!

That kind of thinking is the 'brainwashing' I've been talking about brethren. Those who have failed to understand Lord Jesus in His Olivet discourse Signs about the end. Those instead listen to men's doctrines who preach that wars and rumors of wars, famines, earthquakes, and pestilences are signs of Jesus coming to rapture us out. So the worse that things appear in the world, the more those deceived holler the time of Jesus' coming.

Those are not... prepared to make a 'stand' for Jesus during the "great tribulation", and instead will be deceived by fleeing to the false Messiah, thinking he is Jesus.

 

[marks]

Those are not... prepared to make a 'stand' for Jesus during the "great tribulation", and instead will be deceived by fleeing to the false Messiah, thinking he is Jesus.

But that's just not so. If it turns out I'm wrong about pre-trib timing, the same Holy Spirit lives in me, and will enable me to endure whatever is in the world, or the flesh, or from the devil.

Much love!

 

[quietthinker]

That kind of thinking is the 'brainwashing' I've been talking about brethren. Those who have failed to understand Lord Jesus in His Olivet discourse Signs about the end. Those instead listen to men's doctrines who preach that wars and rumors of wars, famines, earthquakes, and pestilences are signs of Jesus coming to rapture us out. So the worse that things appear in the world, the more those deceived holler the time of Jesus' coming.

Those are not... prepared to make a 'stand' for Jesus during the "great tribulation", and instead will be deceived by fleeing to the false Messiah, thinking he is Jesus.

Those who know have the understanding in quietness....they rest in their Salvation. Those who don't yet claim they do, holler about this and holler about that.

Being on a religious trip is as easy as being on a collecting stamps trip or a sports trip. They are being catered to by a spirit which followers believers around like the girl possessed with a spirit that followed Paul around proclaiming all sorts of seemingly pious stuff.

 

[Davy]

Those who know have the understanding in quietness....they rest in their Salvation. Those who don't yet claim they do, holler about this and holler about that.
Being on a religious trip is as easy as being on a collecting stamps trip or a sports trip. They are being catered to by a spirit which followers believers around like the girl possessed with a spirit that followed Paul around proclaiming all sorts of seemingly pious stuff.

I just wish more brethren could understand what Lord Jesus was really teaching us there in His Olivet discourse about the end. However, we only plant, God does the watering and growing.

 

[Davy]

But that's just not so.

Oh but it IS... so.

The strongest warnings Lord Jesus gave us about the end of this world was to not allow any man deceive us. Because He showed as the 1st Seal the rider on the white horse as a mimic of His coming, that reveals the number one danger for the end of this world, that of a false Christ first coming in place of Him with the power to work great signs and wonders that IF... possible, would deceive even His very elect.

Lord Jesus even made that danger plain with the idea of calling us spiritual virgins waiting on His return. And Apostle Paul even taught the heart of how Jesus meant that spiritual virgin idea for us. In 2 Corinthians 11, Apostle Paul said he wanted to present us to Christ as "a chaste virgin". Paul said he feared for us because of false apostles we might listen to, and by another spirit believe on the "another Jesus". That is the same kind of warning Lord Jesus was giving in His Olivet discourse about the coming pseudo-Christ with power to do great signs and wonders and almost... deceive even Christ's very elect.

In Revelation 13:11-14, Apostle John kind of masked it, but gave the same kind of warning about the coming false Messiah. He said that "another beast" would appear with two horns LIKE a lamb (Jesus), but speak as a "dragon" (Satan). We are told there also that false one will work signs and miracles, even raining fire down from heaven on earth in the sight of men.

Those warnings are not... about some flesh man like Moon saying they are Christ and can't work great signs and wonders. Jesus is warning us about the SUPERNATURAL with the coming pseudo-Christ. We will be here to see it too, if we don't die of some cause beforehand. This is why Lord Jesus and His Apostles forewarned us about that false Messiah.

Apostle Paul once again warned about that fake Christ coming in 2 Thessalonians 2. There he said that false one will exalt himself as God, and over all that is called God, or that is worshipped.

If it turns out I'm wrong about pre-trib timing, the same Holy Spirit lives in me, and will enable me to endure whatever is in the world, or the flesh, or from the devil.

Much love!

It's not my call, but I'd say that endurance depends upon how much of His Word you actually pay attention to instead of allowing man's doctrines to deceive you. This future false Messiah event is going to do a whole lot of pruning.

Think about the "chaste virgin" idea by Apostle Paul. God using that analogy gives a whole lot of information, because it is about events we all know about in the natural world. For a virgin that is betrothed to a future husband that has gone away on a trip, and waiting for his return (Jesus), that virgin (His Church) is to remain 'chaste', not laying with another. If she does not wait, and instead lays with another, she is then found as a harlot, and is with child, when her betrothed husband does return.

Apostle Paul wants to present us to Christ as a still spiritually chaste virgin when He returns. The opposite of that is instead falling away to the "another Jesus" (KJV).

2 Cor 11:2-4
2 For I am jealous for you with the jealousy of God himself. I promised you as a pure bride to one husband—Christ.
3 But I fear that somehow your pure and undivided devotion to Christ will be corrupted, just as Eve was deceived by the cunning ways of the serpent.
4 You happily put up with whatever anyone tells you, even if they preach a different Jesus than the one we preach, or a different kind of Spirit than the one you received, or a different kind of gospel than the one you believed.
Holy Bible, New Living Translation ®, copyright © 1996, 2004 by Tyndale Charitable Trust. Used by permission of Tyndale House Publishers. All rights reserved.

 

[ScottA]

Many of today's preachers are just all over the place about the kind of times we are in today. And one of the main tactics of the pre-trib rapture theory churches is to use the crazy events going on in today's world to scare... you into heeding 'their' doctrine about the times of the end of this world. Just about all preachers in today's organizational church systems use that tactic also today, no doubt because the mainstream organizations tell them to. They are preaching that the actual time of "great tribulation" is going to be physically worse than the below revealing by Lord Jesus:

Notice what our Lord Jesus showed us about the events of the end, just prior to the "great tribulation"...

Matt 24:6-8
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
KJV

Jesus said we'd hear of wars and rumors of wars, but then said, "see that ye be not troubled". Now why would He say to not be troubled by that, because wars and rumors of wars going on sounds pretty troubling to me?

He said that because, "but the end is not yet". What "end"? The end of this world, about the time of "great tribulation" which is supposed to be a time of "Peace and safety" for the deceived according to Apostle Paul (1 Thessalonians 5:1-5).

Lord Jesus then revealed more events to occur prior to the time of "great tribulation" in the 7th verse above, about "... nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places." Now we have already been seeing those things in these last days. So are those events not... the "end" He was talking about? Yes, that's right.

The time of "great tribulation" will be different; all those things, wars, famines, earthquakes, pestilences, will have stopped. That is when the false-Christ is to come and play God in Jerusalem just prior to Jesus' coming. He will be the great fixer, and thus the whole world will believe he is God having come.

That time of wars, nation against nation, famines, pestilences, and earthquakes, we are in now, and have been for a while in this present generation. This time today is what Lord Jesus called "the beginning of sorrows". It is not the "great tribulation" just yet, but that is next, right around corner, starting with the event of the Matthew 24:15 verse about the pseudo-Christ placing the "abomination of desolation" idol in Jerusalem, demanding all bow to him in place of God.


The Great Contrast:

In Revelation 13:4, it is asked who can make war with the beast? That's a sign about what Lord Jesus said with - "but the end is not yet", meaning as long as wars and rumors of wars are going on, the end is not yet.

It means when we see all wars having stopped by that beast, it means he is in total control over all nations. And if one controls all nation's militaries, it can't go to war upon itself, and no one will be able to make war upon it to defeat it, at least not physically.

This is the 'contrast' our Lord Jesus wants us to recognize from His Word. Even in Daniel 8:23-25 we are shown a parallel to the beast king of Revelation for the end. It says a king of fierce countenance shall stand up (i.e., come to power). He will destroy using peace it says, meaning deceive the whole world (except Christ's elect) by creating world peace (i.e., the great contrast to today's times, the "Peace and safety" the deceived will then say). And even by his policy, he will cause "craft" to prosper by his hand it says.

Therefore, If you are deceived like the majority will be in that time of the 'end', it will mean all your desires, wants and needs will be provided for by that coming false Christ that comes first. Chicken in every pot for the deceived. All one need do to receive all that is simply bow in worship to that false-Messiah.

The Antichrist is not coming to make war upon the world, but only... upon those in Christ Jesus. The deceived he will already have in his hand, so no need to destroy the deceived. This is why Revelation 11 shows us when the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit kills God's two witnesses in Jerusalem, the deceived world will then rejoice and send each other gifts, because of the torment God's two witnesses caused upon them will have been ended by the false-Messiah. It means they will think to get back to their fake "Peace and safety" feeling the false-Messiah provided for them.

The actual "great tribulation" is about what then? It is SPIRITUAL, about spiritual death to one's soul by being deceived to worship that coming false-Messiah in place of The Father and The Son Jesus Christ. One can't get anymore 'dead' than their soul being condemned to perish at the future "lake of fire" event of Revelation 20. That... is what the coming great tribulation is about.

It will be a great tribulation thusly in two ways, for those in Christ it will be a time of physical suffering, and spiritual testing against the "hour of temptation" (i.e., the temptation to bow to the false-Messiah, and thus receive his blessings and comfort by taking his mark and worshipping him in place of Christ). For the deceived and the wicked, it will be a great tribulation upon their souls, because falling away to the coming false-Messiah will mean spiritual death.

Those who stand in Christ, refusing to bow in worship to the false-Messiah and also refusing his mark, may lose their flesh life, but they will have at least preserved their soul unto Christ Jesus. Believe me or not, but Lord Jesus actually said that in that kind of context in Luke 17:33...

Luke 17:33
33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life (psuche-soul) shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
KJV

This is why Lord Jesus also told us in Matthew 10:28 to not fear those who can kill our flesh body, but not our soul.

So don't fear brethren, be strong in the Faith and wait for our Lord Jesus to come, and refuse to bow to the false-Messiah that comes first. Not long after that false-Messiah shows up Jerusalem, Lord Jesus will come to destroy him, just as Apostle Paul wrote in 2 Thessalonians 2.

I was about to applaud, but you have a few things wrong...most importantly: identifying the abomination that makes desolation and the great tribulation.

Jesus qualified (gave) the time of great tribulation, as "such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be."
It cannot rightly be said that any time of tribulation no matter how great, can at all be greater than all tribulations placed upon Christ at the cross. Such is to rob and discredit Christ--it is an abomination!

As for that abomination, Jesus qualified (gave) it as well, saying, “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place.”
I would ask anyone who thinks they know--
What "place" is holy?
And if one says Jerusalem, and another says the Temple, and another heaven--they are all right.
But I will say, the Jerusalem of God--is in God...as is the Temple. Therefore, the correct answer is indeed all these places--but all are "in Christ in God."
Again I would ask...what abomination could possibly be "in Christ?"
And the answer is...those who are His, those who crucified Him, and those of the church who rob from Him as if they were God, saying greater tribulations are yet to come.

That man of sin is revealed.

 

[marks]

Oh but it IS... so.

Actually, it is not.

For all your arguments, you presume to know my relationship with God, and you don't actually know. So you have really no idea whatsoever whether or not I'm secure in my faith regardless of what details I may have wrong in the Bible.

Is this to say that you are confident you've got all correct understandings of Scripture, and no mistaken ideas? If not, then how are you safe from deception?

To me, it's not as much a matter of cerebral understanding of all that has been foretold, but what I consider to be the heart of my life with God is that I'm simply trusting that He is going to take care of me, regardless of anything else.

At the end of the day, here, the matter comes down to, "You have the wrong doctrine, so it set's you up to be deceived", and anyone can say that to just anyone, it's not hard to do, but to me, it has no real significance in a discussion of whether this is a correct doctrine or not.

If you want to discuss to strength and weakness of the view, great, but if you want to discuss the strength and weakness of the man, that's a different topic.

Much love!

 

[Davy]

I was about to applaud, but you have a few things wrong...most importantly: identifying the abomination that makes desolation and the great tribulation.

Jesus qualified (gave) the time of great tribulation, as "such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be."
It cannot rightly be said that any time of tribulation no matter how great, can at all be greater than all tribulations placed upon Christ at the cross. Such is to rob and discredit Christ--it is an abomination!

I suggest you re-think what you're saying. What Lord Jesus suffered on His cross was not... the "great tribulation" He taught His Church via His disciples while upon the Mount of Olives. To think so is kind of way... out... there in fantasy land. I can't even speculate how you could come up with such an idea.

As for that abomination, Jesus qualified (gave) it as well, saying, “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place.”
I would ask anyone who thinks they know--
What "place" is holy?
And if one says Jerusalem, and another says the Temple, and another heaven--they are all right.
But I will say, the Jerusalem of God--is in God...as is the Temple. Therefore, the correct answer is indeed all these places--but all are "in Christ in God."
Again I would ask...what abomination could possibly be "in Christ?"
And the answer is...those who are His, those who crucified Him, and those of the church who rob from Him as if they were God, saying greater tribulations are yet to come.

That idea of what the "abomination of desolation" is completely... leaves the written Word of God, specifically the Book of Daniel where Lord Jesus was quoting it from. The Daniel 11 chapter particularly gives us what the "abomination of desolation" event in Jerusalem is about. It's about the placing of an IDOL abomination inside a 'standing' Jewish temple in Jerusalem. Antiochus Epiphanes even served as a past history blueprint for it when he took Jerusalem in 165 B.C., went inside the 2nd temple and sacrificed swine on the altar, spread its broth around inside the temple, and then placed an idol abomination on an altar inside to Zeus, and demanded all to bow in worship to it.

That man of sin is revealed.

NOPE, the "man of sin" has NOT been revealed yet today.

 

[Davy]

Actually, it is not.

For all your arguments, you presume to know my relationship with God, and you don't actually know. So you have really no idea whatsoever whether or not I'm secure in my faith regardless of what details I may have wrong in the Bible.

It is EASY to know those who are planning on getting raptured out PRIOR to the "great tribulation" are already deceived by Satan's hosts that teach such a lie against God's Word. You can 'say' you have Faith all day long but what does it mean when you won't listen to HIM in HIS WORD, but instead listen to men's doctrines like the false pre-trib rapture theory?

 

[Davy]

Is this to say that you are confident you've got all correct understandings of Scripture, and no mistaken ideas? If not, then how are you safe from deception?

That dog won't hunt, because all one need do is READ and HEED the Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 Scripture by Jesus Himself to KNOW that His coming and gathering of His saints is AFTER... the tribulation like He said.

Thus you arguing with Lord Jesus, not with me. He is Who said it, not me. I am only teaching His Word AS WRITTEN. Sorry you don't like it, but that is your problem, not mine. So man up and quit trying to project your fault for not staying in His Word onto someone else.