Don't Let The Times Trouble You

[marks]

IF... Christ's Olivet discourse He gave while upon the Mount of Olives with His disciples is NOT for us, His Church, then those false prophets could also pick and choose all kinds of written Scripture directly by Lord Jesus in The Gospels, and say those Scripture aren't written for His Church either! And you know what, that is EXACTLY what some false prophets do that claim only Apostle Paul's Epistles are meant for and ABOUT Christ's Church.

That's not a valid argument.

"If this part is not about the church, that means someone can declare other parts are not about the church." It's non-sequitor. Each should be understood in their own right.

For instance, you are not building an ark, because you realize that portion of the Bible, while being written for you, is not about you. You learn from it, you come to know God, and how He interacts with humanity, but you know you don't need to build a giant boat.

You understand that the temple law is written for you, for your understanding and spiritual gain, but it's not about you, that is, you are not taking your animal sacrifices to the temple.

Matthew 19:11-12 KJV
11) But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given.
12) For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

Here, Jesus addresses His teaching to whom it is meant.

And this part,

Matthew 24:15-18 KJV
15) When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
16) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17) Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18) Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

It is about those who live in Judaea at that time. This is specifically to, and about, those people, in that location, at that time. We all learn from it, we all benefit from it, but we don't all live in Judaea.

Much love!

 

[ScottA]

Once again, no... I am not speaking of the wrong temple regarding the "abomination of desolation" (AOD) event written in the Book of Daniel.

Sorry, but the Daniel prophecy about the AOD did not change... temples. The Daniel prophecy is STILL about Jerusalem and Daniel's people, the Jews (Daniel 9:24-27). And for today, that just happens to mean the orthodox unbelieving Jews in today's Jerusalem.

The 2 Thessalonians 2:4 "temple of God" Apostle Paul pointed to is NOT the spiritual temple involving Christ's Church. That idea is a FALSE teaching, and here is why...

Eph 2:18-22
18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In Whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In Whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
KJV

Since Lord Jesus is the Chief Cornerstone of the spiritual temple, and His Apostles and prophets make up the original foundation, then CAN that ever be CORRUPTED BY ANYONE??

NO, of course not.

If a believer on Christ falls away from the Faith, they are simply 'cut off' from the spiritual temple in Christ Jesus. Furthermore, that spiritual temple is made up of The Spirit, not land masses and material structures. Thus the spiritual temple can NEVER be corrupted, period. If it could, then it would mean Jesus Christ Himself could be corrupted!

Those who don't know to think for themselves and just latch onto some smooth-talking preacher don't realize that a false doctrine from the devil will ALWAYS miss the mark when compared with the written Bible Scripture. This is why those false prophets teach how to leave... the written Scriptures, so they can make you think God's Word says something it does not.

Those are the teachings of men (yes, those "smooth-talking preachers"), and those who preferred to believe a lie.

Nonetheless, the truth also was given, though they did not hear it. Even now you say, "NO, of course not.", speak as if these words did not even exist:

But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. 2 Peter 2:1​

 

[marks]

And yet it is so... true.

They try to can Jesus' Olivet discourse which He specifically gave for His Church all the way to the end, because they want you to believe their LIE that you'll be raptured prior to those Signs, thus it doesn't involve the Church. That is the LIE they teach. HOW DO I KNOW? Because of this...

Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall He send His angels, and shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
KJV

Let's talk about those above Scriptures instead of you trying to steer around them.

Yes, let's do.

When Jesus told His disciples that the chosen will be gathered, and that later, after Jesus sits on His throne, the nations would be gathered to be judged, do you see a correlation to Joel?

Joel 3:1-2 KJV
1) For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem,
2) I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.

Keep in mind, "plead" here means the pronouncement of the court.

And when Jesus told His disciples that the chosen would be gathered, and the nations would be gathered, are you remembering that Israel is the chosen nation from among all the others, and when you said to a Jew in Jesus' day, "the chosen, and the nations", this would be universally understood as referring to Jews and Gentiles?

Much love!

 

[Davy]

That's not a valid argument.

"If this part is not about the church, that means someone can declare other parts are not about the church." It's non-sequitor. Each should be understood in their own right.

Oh yeah, that is EXACTLY what those false prophets on man's Dispensationalist theories do! And what's kind of funny, those who claim Paul's Epistles ONLY are for Christ's Church even have a major schism (division) among theirselves about when it started per the Book of Acts! (for those interested, see Dispensationalism and Hyper-dispensationalism)

Thus they ALSO claim much of what Jesus taught in The Gospels isn't about His Church either. That's only just an excuse to prop up their false pre-trib rapture theory, because Lord Jesus gave His Church much info about the very end of this world. And He gave His Church His Book of Revelation especially about the very end, FOR His Church, so we would not be deceived! Yet many of those Dispensationalists try to scrap His Revelation also, saying ONLY Paul's Epistles related to the Church.

So don't try and tell me that's not a valid argument.

 

[marks]

So don't try and tell me that's not a valid argument.

It actually is not a valid argument, being non-sequitor, that is, "does not follow".

It does not follow that if I say that temple sacrifice is not for you, that I can just go on to say that prayer is not for you either. Each is to be determined in its own right.

And what's kind of funny, those who claim Paul's Epistles ONLY are for Christ's Church even have a major schism (division) among theirselves about when it started per the Book of Acts! (for those interested, see Dispensationalism and Hyper-dispensationalism)

Maybe address this to those who think such things?

That's only just an excuse to prop up their false pre-trib rapture theory, because Lord Jesus gave His Church much info about the very end of this world.

OK. I guess. People do all sorts of things.

If you think I'm simply making excuses, well, there's not need to bother.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Matthew 24:15-18 KJV
15) When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
16) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17) Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18) Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

It is about those who live in Judaea at that time. This is specifically to, and about, those people, in that location, at that time. We all learn from it, we all benefit from it, but we don't all live in Judaea.

So the question is . . . to whom is this instruction given? To all people in the world? To the Christian church? To those are are alive in Judaea at the time? Which is right?

Much love!

 

[Davy]

For instance, you are not building an ark, because you realize that portion of the Bible, while being written for you, is not about you. You learn from it, you come to know God, and how He interacts with humanity, but you know you don't need to build a giant boat.

You understand that the temple law is written for you, for your understanding and spiritual gain, but it's not about you, that is, you are not taking your animal sacrifices to the temple.

Matthew 19:11-12 KJV
11) But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given.
12) For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

That shows great abuse of God's written Word. The events Jesus foretold about the end of this world involving HIS COMING is completely DIFFERENT material than what He said above in that Matthew 19 Scripture you quote. I can even go in that Matthew 19 Chapter and find things He said that is still relative to TODAY'S CHURCH. How dare you abuse His Word like that!

Here, Jesus addresses His teaching to whom it is meant.

And this part,

Matthew 24:15-18 KJV
15) When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17) Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18) Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

It is about those who live in Judaea at that time. This is specifically to, and about, those people, in that location, at that time. We all learn from it, we all benefit from it, but we don't all live in Judaea.

You abuse that part of His Word also! because Jesus was giving specific SIGNS OF THE END OF THIS WORLD. Even with His command for us to learn the parable of the fig tree was to reveal the generation that would 'see' "all these things", meaning ALL those Signs He gave. It is for the FINAL generation of His 2nd coming!

And His 2nd coming happens on the LAST DAY of this world.

So please stop the RHETORIC Mark.

 

[marks]

How dare you abuse His Word like that!

There's that rhetoric.

Just fyi . . .

 

[marks]

That shows great abuse of God's written Word. The events Jesus foretold about the end of this world involving HIS COMING is completely DIFFERENT material than what He said above in that Matthew 19 Scripture you quote. I can even go in that Matthew 19 Chapter and find things He said that is still relative to TODAY'S CHURCH. How dare you abuse His Word like that!



You abuse that part of His Word also! because Jesus was giving specific SIGNS OF THE END OF THIS WORLD. Even with His command for us to learn the parable of the fig tree was to reveal the generation that would 'see' "all these things", meaning ALL those Signs He gave. It is for the FINAL generation of His 2nd coming!

And His 2nd coming happens on the LAST DAY of this world.

So please stop the RHETORIC Mark.

All done!

Much love!

 

[Davy]

Yes, let's do.

When Jesus told His disciples that the chosen will be gathered, and that later, after Jesus sits on His throne, the nations would be gathered to be judged, do you see a correlation to Joel?

Joel 3:1-2 KJV
1) For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem,
2) I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.

Keep in mind, "plead" here means the pronouncement of the court.

And when Jesus told His disciples that the chosen would be gathered, and the nations would be gathered, are you remembering that Israel is the chosen nation from among all the others, and when you said to a Jew in Jesus' day, "the chosen, and the nations", this would be universally understood as referring to Jews and Gentiles?

Much love!

WHAT????

There is NO SCRIPTURE evidence of what you said with, "...after Jesus sits on His throne, the nations would be gathered to be judged,...".

The gathering of the nations to battle happens on the 'day' of Christ's RETURN, on the 7th Vial, 7th Trumpet, and 6th Seal.

This is why on the 6th Vial Jesus is STILL warning His Church on earth that He comes "as a thief" (per Revelation 16:15). And then on the 7th Vial is the battle of ARMAGEDDON, the gathering of the nations around Jerusalem for the day of His coming, per Zechariah 14.

There is NO Scripture evidence for His coming to gather any of His Church prior to that day. You've heard that lie so long and believed it so long, you forgot that you can find NO Scripture to support it.

 

[ScottA]

That is truly funny, based on the fantasies outside God's Word you've been saying.

I am not concerned, because I know you don't really have a clue of what is written in God's Word. What I haven't determined yet is whether or not you even care what is actually written.

Your are so funny, the topic is about the Signs of the end of this world that Lord Jesus gave, and the time He showed called "great tribulation", and you INSTEAD start talking about His 1st coming and death and resurrection, and the remission of sins, etc.?

It is impossible to logically converse with you, your mind is simply out in left field somewhere.

And by the way, I am a Protestant Christian, and have been baptized in Christ Jesus. So I well understand what The Gospel of Jesus Christ is, and I can TEACH it too, even from Old Testament Books!

So you push The Gospel at me again, as if I'm not a Christian, and I will be forced to report you!

You betray yourself.

I quoted the scriptures and you think it's "funny" and that I "don't really have a clue of what is written in God's Word", but threaten me for having spoke the truth of the gospels...while bragging.

But it is enough.

I have given you the true line upon line teachings, and you reject it and prefer the lie of those teachings of men.

So be it.

 

[Davy]

It actually is not a valid argument, being non-sequitor, that is, "does not follow".

It does not follow that if I say that temple sacrifice is not for you, that I can just go on to say that prayer is not for you either. Each is to be determined in its own right.

Oh, that just makes so much sense (no, not really). That's more of your double-speak. It does not keep with written Bible Scripture. The Daniel 70 weeks prophecy we were told is 'about' Daniel's people and Jerusalem (the holy city). It is simple to know that Christ's TRUE Church is not going to start up animal sacrifices and worship with unbelieving Jews in Jerusalem that WILL... do that, AS WRITTEN in the Book of Daniel, which Jesus showed for the END of this world.

Thus your logic from Greek philosophy just does not work, and can NEVER supplant God's Truth in His written Word.

(For brethren serious about God's Word -- back in 1997, there was a U.S. company in Tennessee called Jesus, Inc., that was sending red heifers for sacrifice to orthodox Jews in Jerusalem. One of the persons behind that company was claimed to be a Christian pastor. What that working by some Christians is that they believe if they help fulfill the prophecy about the Jews in Jerusalem building their 3rd temple and starting up sacrifices again, that it will more quickly usher in Christ's future return. At least, that's the excuse those Christians use. I don't really buy it, I think they are false brethren brought in unawares.

So if there are brethren in Christ that believe those, then would those also be tricked into worshiping with the blind orthodox Jews in Jerusalem when they re-establish the old covenant worship? Probably.)

 

[Davy]

All done!

Much love!

I'm not, and I will continue to show how wrong the Pre-trib Rapture theory is, and how it is against God's written Word.

 

[ScottA]

Welcome to my Ignore List. Your thinking is way... too incoherent for me to have a logical discussion with you.

Matthew 24:15-18 KJV
15) When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
16) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17) Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18) Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

It is about those who live in Judaea at that time. This is specifically to, and about, those people, in that location, at that time. We all learn from it, we all benefit from it, but we don't all live in Judaea.

So the question is . . . to whom is this instruction given? To all people in the world? To the Christian church? To those are are alive in Judaea at the time? Which is right?

Much love!

"them which be in Judaea"
"him which is on the housetop"
"him which is in the field"

 

[Timtofly]

Yes, I see that you have not imagined that no future tribulation could ever trump all tribulation, which Christ bore on the cross.

Tell me then-- What tribulation could possibly beat that (all) tribulation?

All those who die at the Second Coming bearing their own sins, because they did not repent and accept that Atonement made on the Cross. The rejection of that Atonement is the coming time of greatest tribulation ever.

The church is not going to go through that trouble, even if many here feel "up to the task". They want to bear that burden even though Jesus already did that on the Cross.

The Atonement was not the AoD. Satan offering his own salvation is the AoD. Because it is not the Atonement, but Satan's version of God's plan of Salvation. The Cross was the real deal. Satan’s AoD is the fake substitute.

 

[Davy]

All those who die at the Second Coming bearing their own sins, because they did not repent and accept that Atonement made on the Cross. The rejection of that Atonement is the coming time of greatest tribulation ever.

The church is not going to go through that trouble, even if many here feel "up to the task". They want to bear that burden even though Jesus already did that on the Cross.

The Atonement was not the AoD. Satan offering his own salvation is the AoD. Because it is not the Atonement, but Satan's version of God's plan of Salvation. The Cross was the real deal. Satan’s AoD is the fake substitute.

I feel so sorry for those who believe men's false doctrine of a Pre-tribulational Rapture, because they will have NO recourse when Jesus returns ONLY ONE TIME in our near future on the LAST DAY of this world. They will have believed instead on the pseudo-Christ that God's Word warns us will come FIRST.

And because they love their 'things', they will agree to let that coming false-Messiah pay off all their debt, and supply them with riches, and fall into his make-believe one-world beast kingdom and false peace and safety trap. Like Jesus said, it will not be well with those with child on that day...

Luke 21:22-23
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
KJV

That is about the last day of this world, the "day of the Lord" sudden destruction upon those who will be saying, "Peace and safety" (1 Thessalonians 5:1-3). Those will symbolically be found spiritually 'with child' by another, instead of waiting on Jesus' return. Those will NOT be found as "a chaste virgin" to Christ, like Apostle Paul warned (2 Corinthians 11).

 

[ScottA]

Matthew 24
The Parable of the Fig Tree

32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors! 34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.

There shall come forth a Rod from the stem of Jesse, And a Branch shall grow out of his roots. Isaiah 11:1
​

Gee...what generation could Jesus the Branch of Jesse be talking about??

 

[ScottA]

All those who die at the Second Coming bearing their own sins, because they did not repent and accept that Atonement made on the Cross. The rejection of that Atonement is the coming time of greatest tribulation ever.

The church is not going to go through that trouble, even if many here feel "up to the task". They want to bear that burden even though Jesus already did that on the Cross.

The Atonement was not the AoD. Satan offering his own salvation is the AoD. Because it is not the Atonement, but Satan's version of God's plan of Salvation. The Cross was the real deal. Satan’s AoD is the fake substitute.

Do you realize that you just stated that Jesus did not take on all the tribulations attributed to sin upon Himself?

That was my question: What could be greater than "all?"

 

[ScottA]

When Jesus told His disciples that the chosen will be gathered, and that later, after Jesus sits on His throne, the nations would be gathered to be judged, do you see a correlation to Joel?

You have said nothing wrong here.

First the dead in Christ are raised up with Christ, which are not proceeded by the living in Christ, then He goes to the Father.

 

[Davy]

The REAL... parable of the fig tree Jesus COMMANDED His Church to learn:

Matt 24:32-37
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

In the middle east, usually the fig tree sprouts fruit first then leaves. This is why Jesus cursed the fig tree of Matthew 21, because He saw its leaves but it had no fruit on it. So seeing leaves according to this parable He gave is as a Sign for summer being just around the corner. And summer is harvest time, i.e., the day of His coming to gather His Harvest, His Church.


33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

What did He mean, "when ye shall see all these things"? What "things"? Well, what things was He giving in the previous Matthew 24:1-31 verses? He was giving Signs of the end of this world leading up to His future return and our gathering to Him, the final Sign He gave that was in verses 29-31.


34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

There again, He mentions "all these things". What "things"? Those Signs He gave in all the previous Matthew 24 Chapter, the final Sign being that of His coming and gathering of His saints.

Now it does not take an anvil to fall on me to understand what generation He is pointing to with this. He is pointing directly to the FINAL GENERATION on earth that will literally SEE "all these things", i.e., SIGNS of the very end.


35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Whoa@! What event is that about with, "Heaven and earth shall pass away"? That is about the END of this present world on the "day of the Lord"! Who can argue against what timing Lord Jesus is showing here about the END of this present world? (The false prophet that comes here tries... to argue against that, but they aren't very successful, and only show their rebelliousness against Christ and His Word.)


36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but My Father only.

How many times has the false Pre-trib Rapture theorists used that above verse to point to their rapture? that no man knows the day nor hour? Since they don't believe these Signs Lord Jesus gave here in Matthew 24 is for His Church, then why do they use the heck out of 'some' of these verses here, like the above?


37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
KJV

No doubting what timing Lord Jesus was pointing with the above. Even the pre-tribbers cannot get around that.