dumb questions I was emailed

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Eternally Grateful

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I am familiar with that argument.
So, Paul was declaring his own writing as inspired by God?
I imagine he thought he was writing letters to the churches he planted and cared for.
lets use scripture shall we?

Paul quotes the gospel of luke and calls it scripture

1 Timothy 5:18

For the Scripture says, “You shall not muzzle an ox while it treads out the grain,” and, “The laborer is worthy of his wages.”

Luke 10:7

And remain in the same house, eating and drinking such things as they give, for the laborer is worthy of his wages. Do not go from house to house.

Paul also says all scripture is god breathed, he included his own writtings..

2 Timothy 3:16

All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

Peter considered pauls letters scripture

2 Peter 3:16
as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.
Oops. I suppose I will be beat up for writing "I imagine". (sigh)
Don;t imagine, just look what the word says, there is no question
So, you are unfamiliar with the history of the biblical canon?
You have no idea where our Bible came from?
But here you ladies are, lecturing me. (sigh)
yeah I do.

From God..


Yes, you "have to", otherwise what?
That's a sobering question.
How could we even trust the church that decided what was scripture?

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Should I trust a church that does not even interpret Gods word correctly. and preaches a gospel not found in scripture?

or Should I trust that God got it right the first time, and he did not have to wait 400 years
 

Eternally Grateful

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The gospel accounts were "written" between 20 to 30 years after the events.

Imagine nothing having been written about the 9/11 tragedy until 30 years after the event,
That would be the year 2030. Just seven more years to wait.

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were people alive 30 years after that could tell what happened?
 
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TLHKAJ

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She?
Here we go again..
Idk ....even if I got their gender wrong (bc a lot of folks don't specify on their accounts), what I said was true. That's a diversion from what I actually said.
 

St. SteVen

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were people alive 30 years after that could tell what happened?
Sure.
Can you accurately quote from memory something you heard said 30 years ago?
That would be seven years before 9/11.

And if we had two of your friends quote the same person, would the quotes match perfectly?
Or is there an easier way to do that? (like all copy the same source) Hint, hint.
Familiar with the Gospel of Q?

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St. SteVen

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Idk ....even if I got their gender wrong (bc a lot of folks don't specify on their accounts), what I said was true. That's a diversion from what I actually said.
I gave a full reply to your post. See post #37.

/
 

St. SteVen

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Idk ....even if I got their gender wrong (bc a lot of folks don't specify on their accounts), what I said was true. That's a diversion from what I actually said.
I suppose your actual question is about inspiration?
Did God inspire every word?

Hopefully you are familiar with the synoptic gospels? (Matthew, Mark, and Luke)
We call them synoptic because the three accounts NEARLY match each other. Sort of.

So, do we account for the similarities by claiming inspiration? (rather than copying)
If so, how do we account for the inconsistencies? Inspiration, or inaccurate copying?


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St. SteVen

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If I was ignorant you may have apoint
Here's an example of some translation bias that I am familiar with.

Aionios mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in Matthew 25:46.

All these verses below use the same NT Greek word, "aionios",
the Greek word mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in Matthew 25:46.
See bold below. This shows that "aionios" cannot mean eternal or everlasting.

Matthew 13:22
The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word,
but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful.

Romans 12:2
Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.
Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

1 Corinthians 1:20
Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age?
Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

1 Corinthians 2:8
None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Ephesians 2:2
in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air,
the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.

Galatians 1:4-5 KJV
Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
5 To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Luke 18:29-30
“Truly I tell you,” Jesus said to them, “no one who has left home or wife or brothers or sisters
or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God
30 will fail to receive many times as much in this age, and in the age to come eternal life.”

Compare: Matthew 12:32; Mark 10:30; Luke 18:30; Luke 20:35; Ephesians 1:21

Aionios, the Greek word mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in the Bible (eternal hell?)

/
 

St. SteVen

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God is greater than that. He is our Father. Why would He fail to preserve His Word? He can speak through a donkey. He can speak through man.
I agree.

Hopefully you are familiar with the synoptic gospels? (Matthew, Mark, and Luke)
We call them synoptic because the three accounts NEARLY match each other. Sort of.

So, do we account for the similarities by claiming inspiration? (rather than copying)
If so, how do we account for the inconsistencies? Inspiration, or inaccurate copying?

/
 
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The Learner

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Don't go beyond what is written. Scripture refers to death in Adam due to sin. However, the creation was then made subject to futility, as is clearly seen, things just decay, fail, and all of nature is corrupted, leading to the flood of Noah, but afterward God lifted His curse on the ground. Things in the future will be perfected and very good again as it says in Romans 8, better even than how it was in Gen 1

Genesis 1:31
Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good. So the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Genesis 2

15 Then the Lord God took [d]the man and put him in the garden of Eden to [e]tend and keep it. 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you[f] shall surely die.”

Death in Adam, Life in Christ​

Romans 5
12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— 13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. 15 But the free gift is not like the [e]offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. 16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many [f]offenses resulted in justification. 17 For if by the one man’s [g]offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)

18 Therefore, as through [h]one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one[i] Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. 19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.

Romans 8
19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of [a]corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
1 Corinthians 4
Easy-to-Read Version
Apostles of Christ Jesus
4 You should think of us as servants of Christ, the ones God has trusted to do the work of making known his secret truths. 2 Those who are trusted with such an important work must show that they are worthy of that trust. 3 But I don’t consider your judgment on this point to be worth anything. Even an opinion from a court of law would mean nothing. I don’t even trust my own judgment. 4 I don’t know of any wrong I have done, but that does not make me right. The Lord is the one who must decide if I have done well or not. 5 So don’t judge anyone now. The time for judging will be when the Lord comes. He will shine light on everything that is now hidden in darkness. He will make known the secret purposes of our hearts. Then the praise each person should get will come from God.

6 Brothers and sisters, I have used Apollos and myself as examples for you. I did this so that you could learn from us the meaning of the words, “Follow what the Scriptures say.” Then you will not brag about one person and criticize another. 7 Who do you think you are? Everything you have was given to you. So, if everything you have was given to you, why do you act as if you got it all by your own power?

8 You think you have everything you need. You think you are rich. You think you have become kings without us. I wish you really were kings. Then we could rule together with you. 9 But it seems to me that God has given me and the other apostles the last place. We are like prisoners condemned to die, led in a parade for the whole world to see—not just people but angels too. 10 We are fools for Christ, but you think you are so wise in Christ. We are weak, but you think you are so strong. People give you honor, but they don’t honor us. 11 Even now we still don’t have enough to eat or drink, and we don’t have enough clothes. We often get beatings. We have no homes. 12 We work hard with our own hands to feed ourselves. When people insult us, we ask God to bless them. When people treat us badly, we accept it. 13 When people say bad things about us, we try to say something that will help them. But people still treat us like the world’s garbage—everyone’s trash.

14 I am not trying to make you feel ashamed, but I am writing this to counsel you as my own dear children. 15 You may have ten thousand teachers in Christ, but you don’t have many fathers. Through the Good News I became your father in Christ Jesus. 16 So I beg you to be like me. 17 That is why I am sending Timothy to you. He is my son in the Lord. I love him and trust him. He will help you remember the way I live in Christ Jesus—a way of life that I teach in every meeting of the church wherever I am.

18 Some of you are acting so proud, it seems as though you think I won’t be coming there again. 19 But I will come to you very soon, the Lord willing. Then I will see if these proud talkers have the power to do anything more than talk. 20 God’s kingdom is not seen in talk but in power. 21 Which do you want: that I come to you with punishment, or that I come with love and gentleness?
 
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The Learner

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When death ceases, and it is an enemy, so will birth. That cycle of corruption ceases and is actually destroyed in the New Heavens and New Earth to come. Corruption does not inherit incorruption, everything will change.

20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have [d]fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27 For “He has put all things under His feet.” But when He says “all things are put under Him,it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.

Our Final Victory​

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a [m]mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”

55 “O[n] Death, where is your sting?
O Hades, where is your victory?”
56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord.
Boring
 
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The Learner

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Here's an example of some translation bias that I am familiar with.

Aionios mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in Matthew 25:46.

All these verses below use the same NT Greek word, "aionios",
the Greek word mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in Matthew 25:46.
See bold below. This shows that "aionios" cannot mean eternal or everlasting.

Matthew 13:22
The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word,
but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful.

Romans 12:2
Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.
Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

1 Corinthians 1:20
Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age?
Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

1 Corinthians 2:8
None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Ephesians 2:2
in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air,
the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.

Galatians 1:4-5 KJV
Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
5 To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Luke 18:29-30
“Truly I tell you,” Jesus said to them, “no one who has left home or wife or brothers or sisters
or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God
30 will fail to receive many times as much in this age, and in the age to come eternal life.”

Compare: Matthew 12:32; Mark 10:30; Luke 18:30; Luke 20:35; Ephesians 1:21

Aionios, the Greek word mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in the Bible (eternal hell?)

/
Commentary Jesus teaches that the unrighteous will inherit "eternal punishment," while the righteous inherit "eternal life." Many have argued that this verse does not teach the doctrine of Hell as a place of eternal suffering and torment apart from God. Much stress is laid on the translation of "eternal" and "punishment" (see Other Views Considered, below). However, if these words are translated correctly, this verse must be considered strong evidence in support of the orthodox view.
The word translated "punishment" reflects the common meaning of the word in Koine Greek (see Grammatical Analysis, below, for more details). The word occurs in over 130 documents contemporary with the Greek New Testament, and in all cases, the translation "punishment" is correct. We must further stress that the word translated "eternal" in this verse modifies both "punishment" and "life.". This verse presents a parallel construction. Jesus is contrasting "punishment" with "life." If we take Him to mean that our life in Him is eternal - everlasting, without end - then it seems most reasonable to understand Him to be teaching that the punishment of the unrighteous is also eternal - everlasting, without end.

Thus, Jesus tells us that the eternal hope of the righteous is in Him, just as eternal punishment awaits the unrighteous who are apart from Him. And since we know none are righteous (Rom 3:10), our only hope is in Christ - for our faith alone justifies us (declares us righteous) in God's sight (Rom 3:20 ff.).

Some have argued that this doctrine has turned many people into infidels; but so have other Christian doctrines. The question is not how men respond to a doctrine but what Jesus and the NT writers actually teach about it. Human response is a secondary consideration and may reveal as much about us as about the doctrine being rejected. Nevertheless two things should be kept in mind: (1) as there are degrees of felicity and responsibility in the consummated kingdom (e.g., 25:14-30; cf. 1Cor 3:10-15), so also are there degrees of punishment (e.g., Matt 11:22; Luke 12:47-48); and (2) there is no shred of evidence in the NT that hell ever brings about genuine repentance. Sin continues as part of the punishment and the ground for it (EBC).

Grammatical Analysis kai apeleusontai outoi eiV kolasin aiwnion, oi de dikaioi eiV xwhn aiwnion


KAI APELEUSONTAI OUTOI EIS KOLASIN AIÔNION, OI DE DIKAIOI EIS ZÔÊN AIÔNION



And these will go away into punishment eternal, but the just into life eternal.



KOLASIS (2851)

Punishment (BAGD, Moulton & Milligan, TDNT, Vine)

Correction, punishment, penalty (Thayer)

Chastisement, correction, punishment (LS).

To punish, with the implication of resulting severe suffering (Louw & Nida)

Moulton & Milligan, BAGD, and Thayer list dozens of occurrences of KOLASIS in late classical and early Christian documents, and cite "punishment" as the proper translation in each case. There are no other meanings listed for KOLASIS in any of these lexicons. Here is just one example from Moulton and Milligan: "for the evil doers among men receive their reward not among the living only, but also await punishment (KOLASIN) and much torment" (Oxyrhynchus Papyrus 840).



AIÔNIOS (166)

Without end (BAGD)

Without end, never to cease, everlasting (Thayer)

Eternal (TDNT, Louw & Nida)

In the vernacular as in the classical Greek (see Grimm-Thayer), it never loses the sense of perpetuus (Moulton & Milligan)

Vine suggests that AIÔNIOS may mean either eternal or "duration...undefined but not endless." However, the verses he cites in support of the latter definition (Romans 16:25; 2 Timothy 1:9; Titus 1:2) all refer to past time, not the future. BAGD and Thayer both define AIÔNIOS in these verses as "without beginning." Vine assigns the "eternal" meaning to AIÔNIOS in Matthew 25:46 - no doubt because whenever AIÔNIOS is combined with ZÔÊ ("life") in the Greek New Testament, it always means "eternal." Thus, if the second occurrence of AIÔNIOS in this verse means "eternal," it seems reasonable to accept the same meaning in the first usage, particularly given the parallel construction.



In conclusion, the lexical evidence is very strong that "eternal punishment" is the correct translation of KOLASIN AIÔNION in this verse. Thus, we may confidently conclude that Jesus taught that the unrighteous would be consigned to punishment everlasting, while those who call upon Him as their only Lord and Savior, will receive life everlasting.
 

amigo de christo

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Because she had to clarify since a man with common sense refused to answer the question as any of us knew it was intended. I won't associate with anyone claiming to be a Christian who doesn't believe He can speak to men, and give them words He wants spoken or written. You have contradicted yourself ......double standard. In one thread, you defend that God has spoken to you, and yet you attempt to discredit the Bible is authored by God ....why?? God couldn't speak to men and give them the scriptures?? What do you have against the Word of God? Or do you believe God only speaks to you?
Thats right sister , we gonna stand on the pure and holy GOD inspired words in that bible . Now praise the glorious KING .
To the end the lambs shall point to the TRUTH of our LORD . Let the glorious LORD be praised .