Earth, Created to stand forever

[Harvest 1874]

should we call God The God of nature, it seems like when we say God is The God of nature we are making him a part of creation and we all know that's not true. God is the creator of nature, therefore knows how to sustain what he created for eternally

That is not what we are saying at all, what we mean when we say that God is the God of nature is that he is the author of nature, he is the one who established the rules of nature, there's no implication here as you suggest that that he is a part of creation, he is not subject to nature. Is the pot subject to the Potter or vice versa?

 

[Harvest 1874]

I believe we are in the second presence of Jesus Christ, and all those who have died and remained faithful who are of the Heavenly calling(saints)
have been resurrected. What I mean is that the Apostles and all those who have died faithful since Jesus went back into Heaven have been resurrected. Many people who talk about Jesus second presence go by the word coming which is in many Bibles, so many people think they will literally see Jesus. The scriptures show us however that Jesus left earth and went into Heaven quietly, without public display, only his Apostles and disciple saw him leave, Jesus will come back in that same manner, the whole world didn't see Jesus leave. The only way the world will know that they have been in the second presence of Jesus Christ is when the wicked are being destroyed, just like the days of Noah, and I'm not talking about a flood.

You have the right idea my friend, though we would say the world will see him (not by physical sight, but by the eyes of their understanding) when the judgements are in the earth, that is when the great time of trouble erupts and the present order of things is being dissolved before their eyes.

 

[Harvest 1874]

That's not supported in scripture.

Actually it is, if you take the time to thoroughly examine the facts.

 

[verzanumi24]

of course, it is but I understand no matter how many scriptures I give people that like the people of Noahs time did not believe it til that destruction started the people of the world today will only know that they have been in the second presence of Jesus when that destruction starts. The fact that the scriptures show that Jesus left quietly, that it was not a public display and only his disciple saw him leave and Angels told the Apostles and disciples that Jesus would come back in the same manner(Acts 1:11), that people want to deny that because of their belief, I think is very sad.
Revelation 1:7 is taking you straight to that very last day in which Jesus with his Holy Angels is destroying the wicked of the world. In Daniel 7, we see Daniel’s use of symbolism by which world governments are represented as “beasts” that come up out of the “sea”? (Daniel 7:2,3) So, too, in Daniel 7:13 he uses “clouds” in a figurative way to contrast with the symbolic “sea” and thus to show the heavenly situation where the authority is given to the “Son of man” whereby he rules and crushes the beastly governments that the sea of humanity has spawned.

That's not what I'm talking about. I'm saying you are incorrect when you say, the Apostles and all those who have died faithful since Jesus went back into Heaven have been resurrected.

 

[verzanumi24]

Actually it is, if you take the time to thoroughly examine the facts.

The scripture say the dead in Christ will not be resurrected until Jesus returns.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (KJV)
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

It tells you right there in that verse that first, that an archangel with the trump of God, will announce Jesus' return. Then the dead in Christ will be resurrected. That has not happened yet. Before all that can happen, the gospel must first be preached to all Nations.....that too has not happened.

If the dead in Christ are alive, where are they?

 

[verzanumi24]

Yep it day's he went into heaven, and he will return from heaven in flaming fire, dissolving the existing earth.

When Jesus Christ Return's, It's Final Judgment By Fire, No Mortal Human Survives.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Nahum 1:5KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-8KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Matthew 13:40KJV
As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

You are mixing up scriptures that are adding two separate events.

 

[Truth7t7]

You are mixing up scriptures that are adding two separate events.

There is one future return of Jesus Christ, I'm not mixing any scripture up, please read his return in "Fire" once again.

Yep it day's he went into heaven, and he will return from heaven in flaming fire, dissolving the existing earth.

When Jesus Christ Return's, It's Final Judgment By Fire, No Mortal Human Survives.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Nahum 1:5KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-8KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Matthew 13:40KJV
As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

That's not what I'm talking about. I'm saying you are incorrect when you say, the Apostles and all those who have died faithful since Jesus went back into Heaven have been resurrected.

I don't believe I am incorrect the Apostles and all those of the Heavenly calling who have died faithful to Jesus since he went back into heaven have been resurrected because I believe we are now in the second presence of Jesus.

 

[Truth7t7]

I don't believe I am incorrect the Apostles and all those of the Heavenly calling who have died faithful to Jesus since he went back into heaven have been resurrected because I believe we are now in the second presence of Jesus.

Please explain your

"Second Presence Of Jesus"?

 

[verzanumi24]

I don't believe I am incorrect the Apostles and all those of the Heavenly calling who have died faithful to Jesus since he went back into heaven have been resurrected because I believe we are now in the second presence of Jesus.

I showed you the scripture that proved you wrong.

 

[verzanumi24]

There is one future return of Jesus Christ, I'm not mixing any scripture up, please read his return in "Fire" once again.

Yep it day's he went into heaven, and he will return from heaven in flaming fire, dissolving the existing earth.

When Jesus Christ Return's, It's Final Judgment By Fire, No Mortal Human Survives.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Nahum 1:5KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-8KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Matthew 13:40KJV
As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

I didn't say there was more than one. But there are certain things that you are not aware of that is missing in your understanding.

 

[Harvest 1874]

The scripture say the dead in Christ will not be resurrected until Jesus returns.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (KJV)
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

It tells you right there in that verse that first, that an archangel with the trump of God, will announce Jesus' return. Then the dead in Christ will be resurrected. That has not happened yet. Before all that can happen, the gospel must first be preached to all Nations.....that too has not happened.

If the dead in Christ are alive, where are they?

The resurrected saints are spirit beings, can you see spirit beings? If you can then you must be off your meds again.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

You have the right idea my friend, though we would say the world will see him (not by physical sight, but by the eyes of their understanding) when the judgements are in the earth, that is when the great time of trouble erupts and the present order of things is being dissolved before their eyes.

I believe those who are Jesus disciples or followers who understand that we are in the second presence of Jesus see that through their eyes of understanding, but the world(not God people) will not understand that until they are being destroyed.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

I showed you the scripture that proved you wrong.

no, actually you didn't although I know you think you did

 

[verzanumi24]

The resurrected saints are spirit beings, can you see spirit beings? If you can then you must be off your meds again.

The scripture nowhere say the saints will be spirit.

 

[verzanumi24]

no, actually you didn't although I know you think you did

You have only given me your opinion.

 

[Truth7t7]

I didn't say there was more than one. But there are certain things that you are not aware of that is missing in your understanding.

Please share your thoughts on what you believe I'm missing?

 

[verzanumi24]

Please share your thoughts on what you believe I'm missing?

I could tell you, but I would rather provide all the scriptures to present a better picture. But that would take time......it's a Bible study in itself, which I don't have the time right now.

 

[Truth7t7]

I could tell you, but I would rather provide all the scriptures to present a better picture. But that would take time......it's a Bible study in itself, which I don't have the time right now.

Ok, until ya come up with another explanation, we will live with God's Word's Presented Below. In Love

When Jesus Christ Return's, It's Final Judgment By Fire, No Mortal Human Survives.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Nahum 1:5KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-8KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Matthew 13:40KJV
As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

You have only given me your opinion.

Can a person say the same about you or are they wrong to say that, I know you don't believe yourself to be infallible right