Earth, Created to stand forever

[Truth7t7]

Sorry but this text taken from Revelation is highly symbolic and it is evident that you are misinterpreting it.

I disagree, the text has no symbolism, and is speaking of a literal Jesus In The Clouds, And Literal Humans On Earth.

The Scripture Clearly Proves Your Claim That Jesus Will Return "Invisibly" To Be False.

Jesus Christ Will Return Visibly, Human Eyes Will See His Return.

Revelation 1:7KJV
7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

 

[ScottA]

The scripture that you are referring to say flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God....accuracy is important when quoting the scriptures.

1 Corinthians 15:50 (KJV)
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

But failed to notice that Jesus didn't say flesh and blood, He said flesh and bone.

Luke 24:39 (KJV)
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have

There's a difference between flesh and blood and flesh and bone. The flesh and bone Jesus has is not corruptible and it has no blood.

You are willingly jumping into the snare of confounded language meant for the wicked. Is God flesh and bone, or spirit? Which is it that returns to the dust and which returns to God who gave what - what did He give, and which returns to Him?

Whether flesh and blood or flesh and bone, both are of the world and not of the kingdom. Understanding this reality...should change everything - in the renewing of your mind.

 

[bbyrd009]

Revelation 1:7KJV
7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Behold; even if you disregard everyone else to get your way during the day, don't be surprised when you cannot sleep bc your conscience has shown you the truth as you lay in your bed at night (He comes with "clouds")

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

That is basically what we were implying, nor were we in any way inferring that the church this side of the vail can physically see him either, their perception of his Greek: parousia (presence) is likewise through the eyes of their understanding, being enlightened through the scriptures. The nominally professing church looks to the sky for a visible return of our Lord, while we look to the more sure word of prophecy which points out the invisible return of our Lord.

In a post you made yesterday at 9:06pm you said in part that the world would perceive with thier eyes of understanding that we are in the second presence, I was disagreeing with that particular part because when I see the word world I think only of unfaithful mankind, so I'm saying that the only ones who will perceive with thier eyes of understanding that we are on the second presence of Jesus are his disciples, the world will perceive nothing until that destruction hits then the world will know.

 

[bbyrd009]

the world will perceive nothing until that destruction hits then the world will know.

seems like you are predicting some mass event though, and i suggest that Scripture uses that language bc it is something everyone experiences, not bc everyone gets it at the same time

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

seems like you are predicting some mass event though, and i suggest that Scripture uses that language bc it is something everyone experiences, not bc everyone gets it at the same time

Well it will be a global war when Jehovah God sends his only begotten Son with his Angels to destroy the wicked off the planet, but what I'm saying is that when Armageddon begins that when the world (the wicked) will know that they have been in the second presence all along

 

[bbyrd009]

Well it will be a global war when Jehovah God sends his only begotten Son with his Angels to destroy the wicked off the planet

that is your impression, but that may not be correct wadr. What about yesterday's wicked? Are they immune from this coming apocalypse? Did they just get a pass or something?

when Armageddon begins

Har Megiddo is a place, so i dunno about this making it into a one-time event, Barney, i don't think it works like that wadr

 

[verzanumi24]

You are willingly jumping into the snare of confounded language meant for the wicked. Is God flesh and bone, or spirit? Which is it that returns to the dust and which returns to God who gave what - what did He give, and which returns to Him?

I'll answer that question by asking you what did Jesus told Thomas in 1 Corinthians 15:50? You either believe what Jesus said or you reject Him. There is no scripture anywhere in the Bible that say that when Jesus rose from the grave, the body He was given is spirit. Sure, the Father is Spirit, but the Son put on mortal flesh. And when He rose from the grave, He was given a body that was still physical, but not subjected to death...an immortal body.

Whether flesh and blood or flesh and bone, both are of the world and not of the kingdom. Understanding this reality...should change everything - in the renewing of your mind.

You can argue with Jesus about that. He said what He said and I believe and accepted that.

 

[Harvest 1874]

I disagree, the text has no symbolism, and is speaking of a literal Jesus In The Clouds, And Literal Humans On Earth.

The Scripture Clearly Proves Your Claim That Jesus Will Return "Invisibly" To Be False.

Jesus Christ Will Return Visibly, Human Eyes Will See His Return.

Revelation 1:7KJV
7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

You mean to say the scriptures according to YOUR interpretation prove our claims false.

As for your insistence that the text found in Rev 1:7 is literal, well then lets assume it were literal rather than symbolic as we suggest, how then if the Lord should return as you claim visibly shall every eye see him, is this going to be broadcasts on TV and the internet, because I don't see how every eye could see him if as most fundamentalist Christians suggest, Christ is to set his feet down at the Mount of Olives in Israel (that they who pierced him may see him). I don't believe everybody in the world even has access to TV or internet so hows this supposed to happen?

 

[verzanumi24]

I agree 100%, as Jesus Christ Had Glorified Flesh And Bone, No Blood.

That's correct. That's the same kind of body all of Jesus' glorified brothers and sisters will have.

Philippians 3:21 (KJV)
21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

It's called a spiritual body.

1 Corinthians 15:44 (KJV)
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Notice that it say a spiritual body and not a spirit body. It's a body that does not need air, food, water to sustain it. It's a body though still physical, it is not subjected to the laws of physics.

 

[verzanumi24]

Sorry but this text taken from Revelation is highly symbolic and it is evident that you are misinterpreting it.

Says who?

 

[Harvest 1874]

In a post you made yesterday at 9:06pm you said in part that the world would perceive with thier eyes of understanding that we are in the second presence, I was disagreeing with that particular part because when I see the word world I think only of unfaithful mankind, so I'm saying that the only ones who will perceive with thier eyes of understanding that we are on the second presence of Jesus are his disciples, the world will perceive nothing until that destruction hits then the world will know.

There are three stages involved in our Lord's Second Advent; the first stage naturally is his thief-like invisible return, his parousia (or presence), for a time only those awake and watching for the signs of His presence will be aware of it. (Rev 16:15) the other two stages are merely further unavailing's of his presence to the world.

Later during, the epiphaneia stage or ("bright shining") of his parousia (presence) thinking people in the world and many of His own professed followers, still asleep, would begin to (awaken) to perceive from the conditions around them that a power greater than that of any human agency had taken control of earth's affairs. Still later, (during the time which you suggest) the apokalupsis (complete unveiling) stage will be reached, when the presence of the Lord will become known to all through the gathering clouds of trouble (the outbreak of the great time of trouble), and thus every eye will eventually DISCERN His presence.

They will never physically see him, but they will know (discern) that he has arrived by the events unfolding all around them.

 

[Triumph1300]

I don't believe everybody in the world even has access to TV or internet so hows this supposed to happen?

It will happen supernaturally, like God did other things supernaturally.

 

[Harvest 1874]

seems like you are predicting some mass event though, and i suggest that Scripture uses that language bc it is something everyone experiences, not bc everyone gets it at the same time

It's true everyone experiences tribulations (trouble) in their life, but what's being referred to here is the "great tribulation" spoken of by both our Lord and the Prophet Daniel. When this tribulation breaks forth believe you everyone will receive it at the same time, because it will be a world wide event.

 

[ScottA]

I'll answer that question by asking you what did Jesus told Thomas in 1 Corinthians 15:50? You either believe what Jesus said or you reject Him. There is no scripture anywhere in the Bible that say that when Jesus rose from the grave, the body He was given is spirit. Sure, the Father is Spirit, but the Son put on mortal flesh. And when He rose from the grave, He was given a body that was still physical, but not subjected to death...an immortal body.



You can argue with Jesus about that. He said what He said and I believe and accepted that.

Good, but you are mistaken.

You are referring to Jesus' victory over death - which is the resurrection. But in His ascension, the scripture "the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it" must reconcile as true. Therefore, what men saw of His ascension was only his body rising up into the heavens [below], that being "a cloud." But only His spirit then entered heaven [above]. That being what was seen, and what was unseen, in accordance with "the world sees me no more."

This is the clear reconciliation of all the scriptures.

 

[verzanumi24]

Good, but you are mistaken.

You are referring to Jesus' victory over death - which is the resurrection. But in His ascension, the scripture "the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it" must reconcile as true. Therefore, what men saw of His ascension was only his body rising up into the heavens [below], that being "a cloud." But only His spirit then entered heaven [above]. That being what was seen, and what was unseen, in accordance with "the world sees me no more."

The physical body that Jesus have is not an Earthly body, but it's still a physical body. When your belief conflicts with the scripture, the right thing to do is change your belief to that of what the scripture tells you. That's what it means to be humble and teachable. You cannot grow spiritually of you refuse to change when you are wrong.

 

[Harvest 1874]

We are not to look for Christ to be visible to human eyes when he comes again but we should not even think of his leaving heaven and coming within the confines of earth’s atmosphere for him to be present. He returns or “visits” the earth as did Jehovah in times past, by turning his attention to things of earth. Thus Jehovah did not literally come down or “visit” (King James Version) the Israelites while they were in Egypt or at the time of the birth of John the Baptist; rather, he “turned his attention” to them. Likewise, when he began to call out a people from the nations for his name he did not literally “visit” but “turned his attention to the nations.” (Ex 4:31; Luke 1:68; Acts 15: 14, NW) See also An American Translation

With this thought we must disagree,

As is per the usual with most beliefs the pendulum tends to swing a bit too far one way or another, as there are those who advocate an actual visible appearance of our returned Lord, whether in spirit or in flesh so too there are those of the other extreme who claim that our Lord’s Second Advent does not involve his actual presence here on earth at all, but rather as was alluded to by our friend here, he simply intervenes in the affairs of earth, that is to say he turns his face or attention earthward to finish the work appointed. He himself remains in heaven sitting upon his throne even as the Father sits upon his throne, and from there he employs various agencies at his disposal whether human or angelic, animate or inanimate to accomplish the work.

The scriptures however contradict this idea altogether, three of noteworthy are the following,

“Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence (face) of the Lord (GOD), and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before, whom heaven must receive (retain) until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.” (Acts 3:19-21)

Here we have the Word of the Lord which clearly states that at the time appointed God will send his Son once more to accomplish his will.

“This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.” (Acts 1:11)

This “same Jesus” howbeit now highly exalted, (a spirit being of the very same nature as that of the Father) will come again in like manner as he left, quietly, secretly, without great show or fanfare known (seen) only by his faithful and watchful servants, but of prime importance here is the fact that HE will come again.

“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven, with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first; then we that are alive, that are left, shall together with them be caught up in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.” (1 Thess 4:16, 17)

Here once again a physical appearance of the Lord is prophesied. Although this particular text uses highly figurative language it nevertheless depicts the Lord as descending from the heavens which heretofore had retained him until the appointed time. Here the last members of the body, the “feet of him” are joined with him in the air, not in heaven (at least not right away), but in the air, in the earth’s atmosphere.

 

[verzanumi24]

You mean to say the scriptures according to YOUR interpretation prove our claims false.

As for your insistence that the text found in Rev 1:7 is literal, well then lets assume it were literal rather than symbolic as we suggest, how then if the Lord should return as you claim visibly shall every eye see him, is this going to be broadcasts on TV and the internet, because I don't see how every eye could see him if as most fundamentalist Christians suggest, Christ is to set his feet down at the Mount of Olives in Israel (that they who pierced him may see him). I don't believe everybody in the world even has access to TV or internet so hows this supposed to happen?

So you are saying that it's impossible for God to do it. Did you know that Jesus after His resurrection was seen by more than five hundred members at once?

 

[Harvest 1874]

The scripture nowhere say the saints will be spirit.

What did you do, rip out a few pages from the bible that disagree with your interpretations, chuckle,chuckle?

“There are also celestial bodies and terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory. So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.”

And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being (a soul).” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven. As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly (spirit begotten). And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man (a spirit being, and that of the highest nature, the Divine nature).” 1 Cor 15:40-49

 

[Harvest 1874]

So you are saying that it's impossible for God to do it. Did you know that Jesus after His resurrection was seen by more than five hundred members at once?

There's a big difference between being seen by 500 individuals who can sit or stand in front of you and 7 billion individuals doing the same. What if some of the people standing in front of you are taller than you?