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End Time views

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by Elf, Mar 28, 2008.

  1. verzanumi24

    verzanumi24 Advanced Member

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    (bullfighter;54170)
    sometimes i need more proof then what people till me....
    May I suggest doing your own Bible study on this topic....I myself have done my own Bible study.
     
  2. univac

    univac New Member

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    Let me finish with This poem:Must I be carried to the skies ,On flowery beds of ease,While others fought to win the prize ,And sailed through bloody seas?God bless
     
  3. Jake99

    Jake99 New Member

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    The men who wrote the bible did the best they could with what they had to work with which was very little. Consider the odds on trying to write down a very long sermon after it was over and expecting to get the message accuratly. The bible is a book of shewn mysteries that can only be fully understood by the Messiah. The whole world has been deceived and the planet is under the complete control of Satan and the Anti Christs. The Messiah is a man who understands the directives, laws and operating systems that lead to everlasting peace and prosperity on earth which are outlined in the bible even as it was writtten. This Rock requires management and rules that strictly forbid certain professions that are still in control today. Moneychangers and salesman are not allowed on planet earth according to the tantrum demonstration Jesus threw in the Temple of God. No lines on the map and no dividing Gods land was also supposed to apply and learn war no more is not optional it is a requirement. The Messiah will come from among mankind just as Jesus did and will meet the same unbelievers who call themselves Christians but clearly elect the Devil every time.
     
  4. verzanumi24

    verzanumi24 Advanced Member

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    The men who wrote the bible did the best they could with what they had to work with which was very little. Consider the odds on trying to write down a very long sermon after it was over and expecting to get the message accuratly.
    What sermon are you talking about? The New Testament were letters written to the Church, and the rest were history of what took place, such as the life of Jesus and His work. The Old Testament again is a written history of God's dealing with man, and His people.Now as far as the men of the Bible doing the best they could with the little they had. I am wondering what little are you talking about? The truth is that they had a lot; they had the Holy Spirit, and they often had God speaking to them, in dreams, vision or directly. The Holy Spirit gives these men and women the ability to see and recall clearly what God wanted them to write down.(Jake99;54643)
    The bible is a book of shewn mysteries that can only be fully understood by the Messiah.
    God's words are for His people and He has given them what they need to understand it. This is not to say that they will understand it all at once, or that all of it will be easy for all. (Jake99;54643)
    The whole world has been deceived and the planet is under the complete control of Satan and the Anti Christs.
    This too is not completely true, because God has complete control. Satan only has some control, but God allows him to do the things that he does.(Jake99;54643)
    The Messiah is a man who understands the directives, laws and operating systems that lead to everlasting peace and prosperity on earth which are outlined in the bible even as it was writtten.
    I don't know it this is your intention but you give the impression as if Jesus was just a man. Yes, He is a man, but He is also God. This is very important to know and understand.
     
  5. Jake99

    Jake99 New Member

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    verzanumi, Men have dreams and the Holy Spirit talking to them today just as they did 2000 years ago why not build a book based on what Hagee, Copeland, Graham and Osteen or the guy down the street have dreamt and heard and call it the new bible. Jesus, according to a bunch of men that did not even know him said anyone could do what he could do and that he was not to be worshipped as a God. Jesus was a man of knowledge and ability that was ahead of his time and he was born of a man and a woman. Not even one religious leader since Jesus has been able to figure out the Truth and the Way that Jesus was trying to convey otherwise mankind would know the simple governing system that meets the needs of the planet and its inhabitants. I am talking about any sermons that Jesus supposadly gave and mans inability to recreate what anyone says even today without on site extensive technology to record it verbatim. Jesus knew Gods ways but that does not make him God but in the same sense if you have seen Jesus you have seen God. This planet is under the governmental control of leaders who destroy the environment, create nothing but chaos and they have huge war machines. How much more control could Satan and the Anti Christs have? God is powerless on this planet which is why he sends a man that represents him to challenge the judges, religious leaders and politicians to a war of Good Vs Evil just as Jesus did.
     
  6. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    verzanumi, Men have dreams and the Holy Spirit talking to them today just as they did 2000 years ago why not build a book based on what Hagee, Copeland, Graham and Osteen or the guy down the street have dreamt and heard and call it the new bible. Jesus, according to a bunch of men that did not even know him said anyone could do what he could do and that he was not to be worshipped as a God. Jesus was a man of knowledge and ability that was ahead of his time and he was born of a man and a woman. Not even one religious leader since Jesus has been able to figure out the Truth and the Way that Jesus was trying to convey otherwise mankind would know the simple governing system that meets the needs of the planet and its inhabitants. I am talking about any sermons that Jesus supposadly gave and mans inability to recreate what anyone says even today without on site extensive technology to record it verbatim. Jesus knew Gods ways but that does not make him God but in the same sense if you have seen Jesus you have seen God. This planet is under the governmental control of leaders who destroy the environment, create nothing but chaos and they have huge war machines. How much more control could Satan and the Anti Christs have? God is powerless on this planet which is why he sends a man that represents him to challenge the judges, religious leaders and politicians to a war of Good Vs Evil just as Jesus did.
    You really don't have much faith do you. Do you not get the writers of the books were inspired by God. They had been given the full knowledge of the Word by God himself. If God could make the World and everything in it surely getting the words he wanted in his book was not a huge feat. And no men today do not have the same dreams they did 2000 years ago the sign of a true prophet of God is that he 100% right 100% of the time . None of the men you mentioned nor anyone else I know of today can claim that. There will come a time in the future this happens but not today. It is your stage of learning that you could even say that the book is not straight from Gods inspiration the more you know the more in awe you become of how perfect the Word is. Even though time periods elapse between writers there are no contradictions only lack of understanding by the reader, there is almost nothing in the New Testament that is not in the Old at least in type or forerunner the book of Genesis and Revelation are complementary to each other even though 1000's of years pass between there writings No the Bible is amazing and every Word is absolutely true without fault. If there is any confusion its in the lies and traditions of men NOT THE WORD OF GOD
     
  7. verzanumi24

    verzanumi24 Advanced Member

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    verzanumi, Men have dreams and the Holy Spirit talking to them today just as they did 2000 years ago why not build a book based on what Hagee, Copeland, Graham and Osteen or the guy down the street have dreamt and heard and call it the new bible.
    I don't know any of these guys that you speak of; I don't listen to them, I don't need them I already have what I need. (Jake99;54881)
    Jesus, according to a bunch of men that did not even know him said anyone could do what he could do and that he was not to be worshipped as a God. Jesus was a man of knowledge and ability that was ahead of his time and he was born of a man and a woman.
    I don't care what they or anyone else believe; my faith is not tied to another person's opinion. (Jake99;54881)
    Not even one religious leader since Jesus has been able to figure out the Truth and the Way that Jesus was trying to convey otherwise mankind would know the simple governing system that meets the needs of the planet and its inhabitants..
    Jesus said that His kingdom was not off this world and He also said that His people are not of this world. Jesus' kingdom will come when Jesus returns and set up His kingdom, and His glorified brothers and sisters will rule with Him. The Bible never said that this world was going to get better. No, it says that morally and spiritually this world would continue to go down hill. And at the event when Jesus returns, the world will be at it's lowest in history. Scripture does not tell us (Christians) that we should seek to make this world (Satan is the God of this world) a better place, but rather the Bible says that we are to preach the gospel to the world. In Revelation, Jesus said to some of His people who apparently had aloud themselves to get caught up in the system, to come out of it or else they would part take of the plague that God will use to punish wicked. (Jake99;54881)
    I am talking about any sermons that Jesus supposadly gave and mans inability to recreate what anyone says even today without on site extensive technology to record it verbatim. Jesus knew Gods ways but that does not make him God but in the same sense if you have seen Jesus you have seen God...
    That's what you believe, fine my position is that He is God. (Jake99;54881)
    This planet is under the governmental control of leaders who destroy the environment, create nothing but chaos and they have huge war machines. How much more control could Satan and the Anti Christs have? God is powerless on this planet which is why he sends a man that represents him to challenge the judges, religious leaders and politicians to a war of Good Vs Evil just as Jesus did.
    God is powerless, now that's a laugh.
     
  8. tomwebster

    tomwebster New Member

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    Jake99I think you are on the wrong forum
     
  9. Jake99

    Jake99 New Member

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    I don't know any of these guys that you speak of; I don't listen to them, I don't need them I already have what I need. You never heard of Billy Graham? And you think you know the truth and the way but that is reserved for the Messiah and you are not him.I don't care what they or anyone else believe; my faith is not tied to another person's opinion. The bible is a combination of many mens opinions which you seem to believe in as gospel mand yet the Bible clearly says that the Messiah's ways are not man's ways.Jesus said that His kingdom was not off this world and He also said that His people are not of this world. Jesus' kingdom will come when Jesus returns and set up His kingdom, and His glorified brothers and sisters will rule with Him. The Bible never said that this world was going to get better. No, it says that morally and spiritually this world would continue to go down hill. And at the event when Jesus returns, the world will be at it's lowest in history. Scripture does not tell us (Christians) that we should seek to make this world (Satan is the God of this world) a better place, but rather the Bible says that we are to preach the gospel to the world. In Revelation, Jesus said to some of His people who apparently had aloud themselves to get caught up in the system, to come out of it or else they would part take of the plague that God will use to punish wicked. I agree that only the Messiah can make this world a better place because the believers are following the False prophets who teach the bible as the inerant word of God rather than the opinions of men. Men chose which books of opinions were to be contained in the bible and Jesus never wrote anything down. That's what you believe, fine my position is that He is God.Jesus said worship he who sent me and worship not graven images. I believe your church still worships Jesus nailed to a cross does it not? God is powerless, now that's a laugh.
    If God or the Messiah were of this world we would not have any of the problems mankind has created. Maybe I am in the wrong forum you people are brainwashed and cannot think outside the tiny box you are trapped in. If mankind knew the ways of Jesus it would not need to hear from him again and he would still speak in tongues you would not understand. History repeats itself and the Christians and the Jews would be the first in line to beat mock and try the Messiah.
     
  10. tomwebster

    tomwebster New Member

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    Jake99 "Maybe I am in the wrong forum" Bye!
     
  11. Veronica Moser

    Veronica Moser New Member

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    Jake99 "Maybe I am in the wrong forum" Bye!
    Let us be gentle, brother. Amen?
     
  12. tomwebster

    tomwebster New Member

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    Let us be gentle, brother. Amen?
    I thought that was gentle.
     
  13. Veronica Moser

    Veronica Moser New Member

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    A gentle spirit is a welcoming spirit.
     
  14. tomwebster

    tomwebster New Member

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    A gentle spirit is a welcoming spirit.
    OK, Jake is welcome to leave this part of the board.
     
  15. Veronica Moser

    Veronica Moser New Member

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    Witty one, aren't you? God bless.
     
  16. verzanumi24

    verzanumi24 Advanced Member

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    If God or the Messiah were of this world we would not have any of the problems mankind has created. Maybe I am in the wrong forum you people are brainwashed and cannot think outside the tiny box you are trapped in. If mankind knew the ways of Jesus it would not need to hear from him again and he would still speak in tongues you would not understand. History repeats itself and the Christians and the Jews would be the first in line to beat mock and try the Messiah.
    Yes Billy Graham I know, but I don't listen to him either; as I said I don't need them to understand God's word. In fact one have to be carful whom we listen to and those we chose to listen to are not always correct. Also, the things that you are saying would apply to you as well.Thankfully I don't agree with much of what you say(exept the part about Jesus not being of this world) since you are not Jesus, so how would you know what you’re talking about?
     
  17. Jake99

    Jake99 New Member

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    You do know that Christ returns to wake the decieved and heal the deaf dumb and blind dont you? All mankind are sinners headed away from God because they believe in inspired men from the dark ages who have led them to the brink of destruction. The Christians are #1 in the use of military force and environmental destruction and not even 1 Capitalistic system has ever worked. The people who embrace the bombs busting in air and rockets red glare are the Anti Christs making a living as profitiers. As I said earlier the bible is a book of opinions that are supposed to pave the way for the Messiah who's way's are NOT man's ways... The Messiah will change everything and retrain everyone in the true word of God. Moneychangers, salesman, lines on the map and dividing the land will dissapear. The walls that are being built around Israel, Bagdad and along the border with Mexico will be torn down and the freedom of human movement will be restored to the kingdom of God.
     
  18. Super Kal

    Super Kal New Member

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    I didn't want to make a new thread about this, because this kind of goes in with what this thread title says, but if the mods think that this would be a good thread in it of itself, then by all means, feel free to divide it into a new thread [​IMG]today there are many views on the prophecies and events of Revelation and the other verses in the Bible that coincide with Revelation... the three main views that I have seen are:1.)PreterismThe belief that the book of Revelation was fulfilled with Nero as the Antichrist and the fall of Jerusalem in ad 70, which has also lead to amillenialism, the belief which says that the Thousand Year Reign with Christ is symbolic and is not meant to be taken literally but rather symbolically2.)Historicismit views the events and symbolisms of Revelation as certain times and events in the past throughout history with the rise and fall of the Roman Empire and the introduction of Roman Catholicism as the wh**e of Babylon as mentioned in Revelation 17:4-6 and Papal Rome as the system of the Antichrist and the Pope as the Antichrist and the Great Tribulation starting just after John had written the Book of Revelation3.)FutuirismThe belief that the events of Revelation are considered as events and happenings that have not yet come to pass... these events are to be held in the future with a one man dictator who will rule the earth and Christians will go through the Great Tribulation ending with the Second Coming of Christ with His saints and the start of the Thousand Year reign. There are many different views of futurism, mostly based around the view of when the rapture will occur... the four major views that are held today areA.)Post-Tribulational Premillenialismthe belief that there is no rapture before the Tribulation and all Christians will go through the Great Tribulation. Some Post-Tribulationalists have the belief that even though there will be no rapture before the Great Tribulation, they do beleive that there will be a rapture just before the Thousand Year Reign, via 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18B.)Mid-Tribulational Pre-Millenialismthe belief that there is a sort of partial rapture after the first 3 1/2 years of the Great Tribulation that all Christians will be taken away at the time that The Antichrist proclaims himself as Christ.C.)Dispensationalist Pre-MillenialismThere is a rapture where all Christians of the earth are taken up by Christ before the time of the Tribulation via 1 Thessalonians 4:17, and the people who become Christians after the rapture will be the ones who will go through the Great Tribulation and witness a one man dictator rise to power.now I know what this site has against Pre-Tribulational Millennialism, but I am curious to hear and read what the rest of you think of the other views such as Historicism, Preterism, and just Futurism in general, and maybe give biblical scripture to either support or rebuke
     
  19. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Well I think there is only one right view and that is that Rev, is future and are events that will happen. This is backed with a lot of scripture if you read it that way I believe there are so many views for a reasons one the book was closed by God until the End times so good Christians in an effort to try to understand it, could not know future things so they interpreted it as past things. When in fact the past things were just types of things to come. They were not wrong in the things they saw. Its just that they were the types of the future things not the fulfillment of them. But men being men hang on to their traditions easier than looking at their mistakes. They based whole religions on what they thought it said so now they have grown hard hearted in their ways.As far as Rapture I don't believe there is one at all, but I suppose if you wanted to stretch it you might see a post -trib rapture when Christ returns at the 7th and last trump but it would be short lived as Christ is coming to earth. Not taking anyone awayAs far as scripture thats anothermatter I could give you loads of it.Example:I could give you 2 Thess. chapter 2 and point out Christ doesnt return until after the Son of Perdition (Satan) which is the tribulation spoken of in Rev. and Daniel but a Preterism or Historicism would argue that it has happened so again it comes down to the wisdom and understanding God has given one and your own studies. I say there is no way God wrote all this stuff including scriptures in the O.T. that have not yet been fulfilled, So we could just hang out here untill he comes, because everything happened thousands of years ago. God is to exact in his timing to perfect he used numbers and days and parables to tell us where we are in time, for a reason. Preterism and Historicism both just tend to Ignore what doesnt fit only a future view fits every piece in place and leaves out nothing. So for that reason I believe its the right one.
     
  20. Super Kal

    Super Kal New Member

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    i just want to point out that both Preterism and Futurism were ideas created by the Jesuit Order during the Great Reformation; Preterism by Luis De Alcasar and Futurism by Fransisco Ribera...now, please explain to me why Historicism is supposedly wrong, because I'm starting to see it as more of truth than any of the other viewsand one thing that Futurism does is put in a huge gap between Daniel's 69th and 70th prophetic week... so that don't make any sense to me anymore... and you also can't ignore what Revelation 1:1 says... "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass;"and I have to disagree with the "only futurism fits", because when you study Papal Rome and the rise and fall of ancient Rome, the puzzle fits perfectly...now if it were in the future, then why did John say that these things would shortly come to pass?... that doesn't make any sense... it would make sense if he said something else, like "happen in a time where I am dead" or something
     
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