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End Time views

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by Elf, Mar 28, 2008.

  1. arniem

    arniem New Member

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    (Literalist-Luke;43223)
    Where do we see that the seven years Tribulation is to be viewed as God’s wrath?.
    The beginning of the seven seals is when God's wrath begins. At the end of the seventh seal God's wrath is complete.Opening of the sixth seal .....hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of their wrath has come......(rev 6:16) ....I saw in heaven another great and marvelous sign: seven angels with the seven last plagues—last, because with them God's wrath is completed (rev 15:1) Many thanks.Arnie M.
     
  2. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Arnie Arnie what am I to do with you the seals are not in order they start with the first white horse Antichrist rides the first white horse (the fake) look at the greek here Christ is on the second White horse with a rainbow the trumps are in order Revelation 6:1 "And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts [living creatures] saying, Come and see."God would never say, "Come and see", if He never expected you to see and understand the vision of John. The order from Jesus to John is to write what you see so that each of us living in this generation could come and see with understanding what we are about to read. Revelation 6:2 "And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer."This one who rode on the white horse had a bow, but without arrows. He had the authority, but not the strength to back up his authority. What strength that he did have, was through deception. The rider of the white horse is Satan, in the role of the Antichrist. Satan will come first as the fake Christ, the Antichrist; and he will ride and conquer the people of the entire earth.This first seal we will see in detail in the ninth chapter. It takes place after the fifth trumpet sounds, Satan is the first morning star to come. This event will catch many Christians off-guard, for many tie themselves to the '"rapture doctrine", and will worship the Antichrist as the true Christ, in ignorance. This is why the rapture doctrine is so dangerous, for it ties its followers to the first Christ to come, who is the Antichrist.The rider of this white horse is not the rider of the white horse who comes with a rainbow around his head, and a rainbow around the throne he leaves. This "bow" in the Greek is a cheap fabric, or imitation, In the Greek it's called "toxon". His grandeur will be cheap, yet convincing all of those who are looking for the rider of the "first horse" to fly them out of here. The Antichrist will offer them all they desire in fulfilling their wishes.Word References:"bow" - 5115 toxon (tox'-on); from the base of 5088; a bow (apparently as the simplest fabric): KJV-- bow. In the nineteenth chapter we will see the true Christ coming in all his glory, and then this first rider of the white horse will go to the pit. The first rider of the white horse does not come in war, for no arrows are mentioned; but in religious peace. This is important to remember, for it could bring about your downfall through deception.
     
  3. Christina

    Christina New Member

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  4. arniem

    arniem New Member

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    (kriss;44546)
    I have no idea what you are describing but its not the millenium and its not rev.its seems to be bits and pieces out of context not sure
    Hi krissI have not used bits and pieces at all.This is all from Revelation 9 ... 1/3 of mankind has been killed .... 2/3 are still alive and have not repented , they still worship demons , still murder , still worship idols etc. .... The 144,000 are accounted for.The only people not there are the Christians. Where are they? If they are not on earth , could they be with the Lord ? They have to be somewhere.Because of these and other reasons I allow the possibility that Jesus has already removed his church . That was the point I was making.Many thanksArnie M.
     
  5. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    the church is never removed it is split as I have told you Most are following antichrist thinking he is christ the other are the with saints following 144.000 and the two wittness's that is everybody there is no rapture before the end there is no purpose this is the seperating youre either on one side or the other there is no in between black and white, good or bad fig thats it wheat or chaff, tare or believer,saint or sinner everyone will choose thats why the church is called saints in rev. you are with Christ or against him thats it. The fake or the real
     
  6. harv

    harv New Member

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    (Elf;42958)
    What is everyone's view, what position do you hold?
    As I study the Bible and its prophecies with regard to "the time of the end" as expressed by descriptive outline under the different symbols of both Daniel and Revelation it has become my understanding that the proper placement of the times cited from each of these books are dependent upon the first of the two books, the book of Daniel. Why Daniel? Because he was directed by the Spirit to write the descriptive representations given him of paralleling events and "time/s" to transpire upon the earth as history toward the event of the coming "everlasting Kingdom" of God.In order for either the events or the times cited to become sensible to our reasoning processes, there must be brought forward a form of logic for sound sequence relative to the rise and fall of the nations from the era of Neo-Babylon through to the event of Messiah's Second Advent and the beginning of the thousand years with a proper chronological placement for the times cited from chapters 2,7,8, and 11-12. There will also be a need to recognize that Daniel 9, as a time prophecy relative to Messiah's First Appearing, must stand as a time prophecy apart from the chapters just mentioned.Below is a word graphic hopefully helpful toward understanding the truth of the chronology for world events and times which are presented us through the words of Daniel's inspired dreams and visions from the real author of these future events, God Himself.Great Babylon > Medes and Persians > Greece > Rome > Rome divided > The rise of a "Little Horn" from out of the Roman era to begin the count of the "time, times, and the dividing of time," the "1290 days," the "1335," and the "2300 days" to the coming "Everlasting Kindgdom." At which time the whole of the "Little horn" kingdom shall "be broken without hand" (destroyed by "The Brightness of Messiah's Second Coming) at "The First Resurrection." >Satan bound and Earth Void of any Populous "For A Thousand years" >(a 2nd)Resurrection for all non-believers for the final sentencing: "The Second Death." A brief summary statement about death for all:All the non-believers and the believers in God experience a temporal death to "The First Resurrection" "At the Last Day." Those who are non-believers will experience an everlasting, "Second Death" following shortly after the (2nd resurrection). God will not be torturing the non-believers in living consciousness for all eternity. I do not perceive such a doctrine as either reasonable or as sound Biblical Doctrine Complimentary to the very Character of God. My desire is to be among those awakened for "The First Resurrection,"To Meet My Lord "In The Air." "Despise not prophesying. Prove all things. Hold fast that which is Good." 1Thess.5:19-24.
     
  7. Elf

    Elf New Member

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    (harv;44615)
    As I study the Bible and its prophecies with regard to "the time of the end" as expressed by descriptive outline under the different symbols of both Daniel and Revelation it has become my understanding that the proper placement of the times cited from each of these books are dependent upon the first of the two books, the book of Daniel. Why Daniel? Because he was directed by the Spirit to write the descriptive representations given him of paralleling events and "time/s" to transpire upon the earth as history toward the event of the coming "everlasting Kingdom" of God.In order for either the events or the times cited to become sensible to our reasoning processes, there must be brought forward a form of logic for sound sequence relative to the rise and fall of the nations from the era of Neo-Babylon through to the event of Messiah's Second Advent and the beginning of the thousand years with a proper chronological placement for the times cited from chapters 2,7,8, and 11-12. There will also be a need to recognize that Daniel 9, as a time prophecy relative to Messiah's First Appearing, must stand as a time prophecy apart from the chapters just mentioned.Below is a word graphic hopefully helpful toward understanding the truth of the chronology for world events and times which are presented us through the words of Daniel's inspired dreams and visions from the real author of these future events, God Himself.Great Babylon > Medes and Persians > Greece > Rome > Rome divided > The rise of a "Little Horn" from out of the Roman era to begin the count of the "time, times, and the dividing of time," the "1290 days," the "1335," and the "2300 days" to the coming "Everlasting Kindgdom." At which time the whole of the "Little horn" kingdom shall "be broken without hand" (destroyed by "The Brightness of Messiah's Second Coming) at "The First Resurrection." >Satan bound and Earth Void of any Populous "For A Thousand years" >(a 2nd)Resurrection for all non-believers for the final sentencing: "The Second Death." A brief summary statement about death for all:All the non-believers and the believers in God experience a temporal death to "The First Resurrection" "At the Last Day." Those who are non-believers will experience an everlasting, "Second Death" following shortly after the (2nd resurrection). God will not be torturing the non-believers in living consciousness for all eternity. I do not perceive such a doctrine as either reasonable or as sound Biblical Doctrine Complimentary to the very Character of God. My desire is to be among those awakened for "The First Resurrection,"To Meet My Lord "In The Air." "Despise not prophesying. Prove all things. Hold fast that which is Good." 1Thess.5:19-24.
    Do you interpret the New Testament, by the Old Testament?
     
  8. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    you can only get the full picture that way Elf Daniel is Revelation just differnt language and not quite as complete Revelation speaks of Daniel. Im answereing because havent seen this Harv sense he joined so dont know if he's coming back you can also get a picture of Elijha coming back as one of the two wittness's in 1 kings when you are reading think of Jezzabel and Ahab as types of the antichrist. there is nothing new under the sun what was will be again just differnt players this is called type teaching God uses it because its the same way you teach children.
     
  9. percoid

    percoid New Member

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    Unless I am missing something I did see my tenet. I believe in a prewrath or mid trib rapture. This is why. Mathew 24:29-31 tells of the rapture, I have been told this is when Jesus will set up His kingdom but the setting is all wrong. When Jesus comesto set up His kingdom He will rider a white horse with a host of heaven following Him and He willstand on the mount outside Jerusalem. This is the rapture. In verse 30 it tells that all the people of earth will see Jesus in the air which means the Jews will see Jesus. Zechariah 110:12 tells of the Jews (When they see the one whom they pierced they will know Him and accept Him). If Jesus comes at the beginning of the 7 year period how will the Jews accept both the antichrist and Jesus it will cause confusion because the Jews believe the antichrist to be the messiah. Jesus will come at the 6th seal right after the antichrist sits on the throne (The Jews eyes will be opened as to who he really is now Jesus can come and there will be no doubt as to who He is)and right before God pours His wrath upion the earth. Tribulation mentioned in the bible usually means tribulation on the saints as in Matthew 24:29. It will be a time when parents will turn in children (those that refuse the mark) and children will turn in parents.
     
  10. percoid

    percoid New Member

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    Unless I have missed something I did not see my tenet. I believe in a prewrath or Midtrib. Matthew 24:29-31 tells of the rapture. I have been told this is when Jesus will come and set up His kingdom but the setting is all wrong. When Jesus comes to set up His kingdom He will ride a white horse with a host of heaven following Him and He will stand on the mount outside Jerusalem. So Matthew 24:29-31 is the rapture. In verse 30 it tells that all will see Jesus in the air. Zechariah 10:12 tell of the Jews (when they see the one whom they pierced they will know Him and accept Him). If Jesus comes at the beginning of the 7 year period how do the Jews accept both the antichrist and Jesus at the same time. I do not see how this is possible. So Jesus must come later. He will come at the 6th seal right after the antichrist sits on the throne and declares himself to be God ( the Jews eyes will be opened as to who he really is and now Jesus can come and there will be no confusion as to who He is)and right before God pours His wrath upon the earth. Tribulation mentioned in the bible usually mean tribulation on the saints as in Matthew 24:29. It will be a time when parents turn in children (those that refuse to take the mark) and children will turn in parents. The antichrist will make a slaughter on the saints like never before or ever again. Daniel tells of the saints being given into the hands of the antichrist.
     
  11. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Jesus comes at the last trump that is the seventh Antichrist comes first this is the tribulationthere is no rapture and yes you are somewhat confused because Mathew 24:29speaks of after this tribulation.After What tribulation ?Satan/antichrists tribulation 5th/6th trump Gods wrath comes after at the 7th that is his second coming.And All eyes will see his Glorious coming2 Thessalonians 21Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; This is Antichrist/Satan he must come first this is the tribulation.4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
     
  12. Super Kal

    Super Kal New Member

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    personally, I believe in Post-tribulational Premellienailism...the top one on the pic [​IMG][​IMG]from what I've studied, the others don't make sense, and are not scripturally backed
     
  13. Super Kal

    Super Kal New Member

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    I do have a question though:what verses would lead someone to beleive in Amillennialism?
     
  14. DONNIE

    DONNIE New Member

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    Whats with all of the watching and waiting Paul keeps talking about? Why do we need to watch and wait if we will have so many signs telling us to be ready? All we really have to do is believe and wait for that "last trump" after all it is the "seventh trump". Right?Donnie
     
  15. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    We are to be watchmen on the wall and watch the signs so we will know the season. Once we know we are in the season we are told to wait so we do not follow the first one claiming to be christ (antichrist)We are know and be aware that even though there will be tribulation and miracles and wonders, and promises and lies told by this fake christ,remember the delusion will be so strong the Whole world even many Christians will follow the beast thinking he is Christ, The whole world will even hold a party when the two wittiness's are killed,That's why all the emphasis on the wait and watch for the true Christ coming 2nd at the last trump. God is in fact taking care of his true believers by warning them over and over so it can not be missed.When the true Christ comes we are changed in the twinkling of an eye into our new incorruptible bodies if one can still pinch your flesh the true Christ is not here.
     
  16. bullfighter

    bullfighter New Member

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    (kriss;53414)
    We are to be watchmen on the wall and watch the signs so we will know the season. Once we know we are in the season we are told to wait so we do not follow the first one claiming to be christ (antichrist)We are know and be aware that even though there will be tribulation and miracles and wonders, and promises and lies told by this fake christ,remember the delusion will be so strong the Whole world even many Christians will follow the beast thinking he is Christ, The whole world will even hold a party when the two wittiness's are killed,That's why all the emphasis on the wait and watch for the true Christ coming 2nd at the last trump. God is in fact taking care of his true believers by warning them over and over so it can not be missed.When the true Christ comes we are changed in the twinkling of an eye into our new incorruptible bodies if one can still pinch your flesh the true Christ is not here.
    even if you have faith ,works is fine ..you may die in your faith an feel fine about that .but do you have many around you .do you shop for them ,do you buy gas and travel for your food ,do you work to pay rent for the next month..well you may think faith is all you need try your faith today and do not pay your bills by food or gas..[do i make any sence here]or am i on my own gift from god in this understanding or is it a illution
     
  17. HammerStone

    HammerStone Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    Whats with all of the watching and waiting Paul keeps talking about? Why do we need to watch and wait if we will have so many signs telling us to be ready? All we really have to do is believe and wait for that "last trump" after all it is the "seventh trump". Right?
    There are seven trumps in Revelation and the last one, rather clearly, ends with the return of our Lord. The continual use of seven - seven seals, seven trumps, and seven vials comes with the use of seven on other occasions (IE: the seven thunders, the seven churches, etc.) - would seem to be another obvious one but some still want to transform that "last trump" Paul speaks about to be a mystical 8th trump. The problem here is that you have to first believe in the Rapture to believe in this.If you take that presupposition out of the way, you're left with the last trump. There are seven trumps in Revelation and our Lord returns at the 7th - being the last one. That's Scripture on top of Scripture because they're both obviously talking about the same events.Why did I go on that digression? Because it illustrates my ultimate point in this post in another way. Christ told us how it will go down but people still argue over it - reference the above poster (yes I don't quite get Amillennialism either). He gave us so many signs simply because we'd need it.Matthew 24:24
    For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
    Mark 13:22
    For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall show signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
    Revelation says that the Antichrist will command lightning. Can you imagine how many will flock to him thinking it's Christ? Now put in that the Rapture says that Christ is the first to come!I mean recall to memory, the Israelites witnessed a pillar of fire and the parting of the sea, but they still questioned Father. Sometimes folks don't listen so there is no excuse not to know the signs regardless of belief on how Christ returns. If you (collective you) know the Scriptures (and therefore the signs) you'll catch them when they come.
     
  18. bullfighter

    bullfighter New Member

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    (Denver;53571)
    There are seven trumps in Revelation and the last one, rather clearly, ends with the return of our Lord. The continual use of seven - seven seals, seven trumps, and seven vials comes with the use of seven on other occasions (IE: the seven thunders, the seven churches, etc.) - would seem to be another obvious one but some still want to transform that "last trump" Paul speaks about to be a mystical 8th trump. The problem here is that you have to first believe in the Rapture to believe in this.If you take that presupposition out of the way, you're left with the last trump. There are seven trumps in Revelation and our Lord returns at the 7th - being the last one. That's Scripture on top of Scripture because they're both obviously talking about the same events.Why did I go on that digression? Because it illustrates my ultimate point in this post in another way. Christ told us how it will go down but people still argue over it - reference the above poster (yes I don't quite get Amillennialism either). He gave us so many signs simply because we'd need it.Matthew 24:24Mark 13:22Revelation says that the Antichrist will command lightning. Can you imagine how many will flock to him thinking it's Christ? Now put in that the Rapture says that Christ is the first to come!I mean recall to memory, the Israelites witnessed a pillar of fire and the parting of the sea, but they still questioned Father. Sometimes folks don't listen so there is no excuse not to know the signs regardless of belief on how Christ returns. If you (collective you) know the Scriptures (and therefore the signs) you'll catch them when they come.
    am like the israelites moses lead..i allways need signs and proof that god is with me in the storms that come apond me often....but you know he gives me signs and proof,and shows me how weak i am....but back on sub........Say its way in the tribulation you and your family fleeing in the wilderness .you came apon two two great banks to high to take some of your loved ones[the raging river in the middle]no way up no way around no way in the water..you do not want to leave them..the beast is on your trail fast to be there to take your life..so you will not leave your loved ones, you will stay in faith, you pray ,you try to send the others on, they will not go so now you are making everyones fate..you stress you pray hard and deep..then just at that moment a empty boat floats down the river you and everyone gets in,you get to safety ...till me was that god answering your prayer..i think so...but one thing someone made the boat...so i beleive that doing something to prepare as we [the world] paves this road to the beast..and seeing what is comming not to be suprised can ask god what he wants us to do..and learn
     
  19. verzanumi24

    verzanumi24 Advanced Member

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    (Jerusalem Junkie;42966)
    #2 works for me......simple because its against all odds.
    Sorry, I don't mean to be harsh but that's not the way to come to the truth. Because something is against all odds does not mean that it is the correct one. Biblical truth come from studying God's word and allowing God to open ones mind to what is written.
     
  20. bullfighter

    bullfighter New Member

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    (verzanumi24;53917)
    Sorry, I don't mean to be harsh but that's not the way to come to the truth. Because something is against all odds does not mean that it is the correct one. Biblical truth come from studying God's word and allowing God to open ones mind to what is written.
    sometimes i need more proof then what people till me in the most sencerity ,what they show me in there interpitation of the bibil...there is a great movement going on and each one should be giving shareing loveing,careing,forgiveing.visiting the people in prison ,feeding the poor healing..these thing so god can invite us into his kingdom so that we can hear him...to many studies saying the water is rising and people just want to keep proving it...it is time to get the boat ready [yes i know and your faith and your full armor...]this is not a rehersal the time when america gets a hard slap is almost apond us
     
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