End times. Christians will be like the soldiers of Gideon, around the world (sin in check? lights shining?)

[Gottservant]

Hi there,

So I had this thought, maybe I should post about the scriptural foundation Christians will have in the end times (and I sort of felt the Holy Spirit say 'I'm not suggesting you do anything else', making it one of those 'freewill' things). There is a scriptural foundation for how Christians should react to the end times.

The scripture that should be the foundation of Christians around the end times, is the story of Gideon. There are two sides to this - if you overlook the way Gideon tested God - the choosing of the soldiers that would go into battle with Gideon, and the way they went into battle. Now, I'm not saying that you should not test God, or that you should, I am just saying as far as the world is concerned, who you are and how you do battle are all that's important. Ask the Holy Spirit if this makes sense, and if you can trust this scripture for the end time.

The reason this scripture makes sense to me (why the Holy Spirit in me, gave me confidence in it), is that it is about what Christians do throughout the nations of the world. Gideon's Christians will not be given to sin, they will kneel to pray before they do anything - the way Gideon's soldiers did not lie down to drink water. This is a strength; it is a sign that what they do, they do in the strength of the Lord. Having this strength then, how they do battle, is something they are united in throughout the nations of the world.

How do Gideon's Christians do battle in the end times? They smash their lamps and make a great noise - every time you see Christians gather together to protest government controls, you should be thinking "that's how Gideon would have wanted them to battle!". The point is, they - the Government - can't come down with an iron fist, if the message is the same, wherever they go throughout the world. If Christians are known, to protest, and every other aspect of their life is sinless, it will break the will of the Devil within those governments. The forces of darkness in the world will be confused - "what have Christians done wrong? nothing?" "how can a mark be right, if so many have an objection to it?" We are not just a little army!

What I want for you to do, is get encouraged by this scripture, as the Holy Spirit leads you. I am saying "without a vision the people perish" but "here is the scripture on which the vision should be based". If you gain strength this way, join me in resisting the Devil with this scripture. We are stronger together; how great if we know what we are together for?

Please, if the Holy Spirit leads, speak up - perhaps you see an interpretation that I have missed?

God bless.

 

[Davy]

Hi there,

....

How do Gideon's Christians do battle in the end times? They smash their lamps and make a great noise - every time you see Christians gather together to protest government controls, you should be thinking "that's how Gideon would have wanted them to battle!". The point is, they - the Government - can't come down with an iron fist, if the message is the same, wherever they go throughout the world. If Christians are known, to protest, and every other aspect of their life is sinless, it will break the will of the Devil within those governments. The forces of darkness in the world will be confused - "what have Christians done wrong? nothing?" "how can a mark be right, if so many have an objection to it?" We are not just a little army!

What I want for you to do, is get encouraged by this scripture, as the Holy Spirit leads you. I am saying "without a vision the people perish" but "here is the scripture on which the vision should be based". If you gain strength this way, join me in resisting the Devil with this scripture. We are stronger together; how great if we know what we are together for?

Please, if the Holy Spirit leads, speak up - perhaps you see an interpretation that I have missed?

God bless.

We should be especially careful to pay attention to what Lord Jesus told us to expect for the coming tribulation. He laid a lot of it out in His Olivet discourse of Matthew 13, which is particularly for certain ones of us that may expect to be delivered up at the end to give a Testimony for Him against the beast, and we may or may not be killed for it. Regardless, we are not to fear death if it comes then.

God is going to speak to the whole world by The Holy Spirit speaking through us, and Jesus said to not think beforehand what we will say in that hour, but speak what The Holy Spirit gives us to say. This will likely be the reason why Satan and his host will kill God's "two witnesses" in Jerusalem just 3.5 days prior to Christ appearing in the clouds. It will be then when Satan will seek to finally wipe us off the earth. However, that is when Lord Jesus will step in to stop it.

Thus we as Christians are not... to take up arms against governments at the end. There won't be any WWIII. That is an idea that the Pre-trib Rapture doctors created to scare brethren into believing their false Pre-trib Rapture.

Like Apostle Paul said, when 'they' (the deceived and wicked) say, "Peace and safety," that is when the "sudden destruction" from Christ's coming will come upon them, and end this present world time. The coming false-Messiah/Antichrist is coming to PLAY Lord Jesus Christ, and per the Daniel Scripture that false one will do it using 'peace' with craft prospering in his hand. Chicken in every pot IF you will only bow to him in place of Jesus Christ. Because many of us will not bow, that is how we will be singled out, even turned in by our deceived loved ones. This is what Lord Jesus was pointing to with family members turning each other in per Matthew 13.

The "strong delusion" about this which Apostle Paul hinted at, is about brethren that fall away with being deceived by that coming false-Messiah who will work miracles, signs and wonders on earth like Lord Jesus did, and cause many to think that he is The Christ. There will be whole Churches deceived and led to believe that false-Messiah that appears first will be our Lord Jesus.

There is an easy... way to know when the True Lord Jesus does come. All of us still alive on earth at Christ's true coming will be instantly 'changed' like Apostle Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 15, on the "last trump" (7th). So if someone comes up to you and says something like, "He's here! Jesus has returned!," and we are still in today's flesh bodies, then you know... they are deceived with the false-Messiah.

 

[Gottservant]

I was just re-reading this and I was inspired to think "I am with the Christians that take this stand, against the mark of the anti-Christ - we are going to do it together!"

Don't let the Devil think we can be singled out! That is not the plan!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Hi there,

So I had this thought, maybe I should post about the scriptural foundation Christians will have in the end times (and I sort of felt the Holy Spirit say 'I'm not suggesting you do anything else', making it one of those 'freewill' things). There is a scriptural foundation for how Christians should react to the end times.

The scripture that should be the foundation of Christians around the end times, is the story of Gideon. There are two sides to this - if you overlook the way Gideon tested God - the choosing of the soldiers that would go into battle with Gideon, and the way they went into battle. Now, I'm not saying that you should not test God, or that you should, I am just saying as far as the world is concerned, who you are and how you do battle are all that's important. Ask the Holy Spirit if this makes sense, and if you can trust this scripture for the end time.

The reason this scripture makes sense to me (why the Holy Spirit in me, gave me confidence in it), is that it is about what Christians do throughout the nations of the world. Gideon's Christians will not be given to sin, they will kneel to pray before they do anything - the way Gideon's soldiers did not lie down to drink water. This is a strength; it is a sign that what they do, they do in the strength of the Lord. Having this strength then, how they do battle, is something they are united in throughout the nations of the world.

How do Gideon's Christians do battle in the end times? They smash their lamps and make a great noise - every time you see Christians gather together to protest government controls, you should be thinking "that's how Gideon would have wanted them to battle!". The point is, they - the Government - can't come down with an iron fist, if the message is the same, wherever they go throughout the world. If Christians are known, to protest, and every other aspect of their life is sinless, it will break the will of the Devil within those governments. The forces of darkness in the world will be confused - "what have Christians done wrong? nothing?" "how can a mark be right, if so many have an objection to it?" We are not just a little army!

What I want for you to do, is get encouraged by this scripture, as the Holy Spirit leads you. I am saying "without a vision the people perish" but "here is the scripture on which the vision should be based". If you gain strength this way, join me in resisting the Devil with this scripture. We are stronger together; how great if we know what we are together for?

Please, if the Holy Spirit leads, speak up - perhaps you see an interpretation that I have missed?

God bless.

In the end times, Christians will be fleeing and hiding for their lives. when the antichrist takes full control, you either take his mark and be damned or be killed for reusing it.

 

[NayborBear]

Hi there,

So I had this thought, maybe I should post about the scriptural foundation Christians will have in the end times (and I sort of felt the Holy Spirit say 'I'm not suggesting you do anything else', making it one of those 'freewill' things). There is a scriptural foundation for how Christians should react to the end times.

The scripture that should be the foundation of Christians around the end times, is the story of Gideon. There are two sides to this - if you overlook the way Gideon tested God - the choosing of the soldiers that would go into battle with Gideon, and the way they went into battle. Now, I'm not saying that you should not test God, or that you should, I am just saying as far as the world is concerned, who you are and how you do battle are all that's important. Ask the Holy Spirit if this makes sense, and if you can trust this scripture for the end time.

The reason this scripture makes sense to me (why the Holy Spirit in me, gave me confidence in it), is that it is about what Christians do throughout the nations of the world. Gideon's Christians will not be given to sin, they will kneel to pray before they do anything - the way Gideon's soldiers did not lie down to drink water. This is a strength; it is a sign that what they do, they do in the strength of the Lord. Having this strength then, how they do battle, is something they are united in throughout the nations of the world.

How do Gideon's Christians do battle in the end times? They smash their lamps and make a great noise - every time you see Christians gather together to protest government controls, you should be thinking "that's how Gideon would have wanted them to battle!". The point is, they - the Government - can't come down with an iron fist, if the message is the same, wherever they go throughout the world. If Christians are known, to protest, and every other aspect of their life is sinless, it will break the will of the Devil within those governments. The forces of darkness in the world will be confused - "what have Christians done wrong? nothing?" "how can a mark be right, if so many have an objection to it?" We are not just a little army!

What I want for you to do, is get encouraged by this scripture, as the Holy Spirit leads you. I am saying "without a vision the people perish" but "here is the scripture on which the vision should be based". If you gain strength this way, join me in resisting the Devil with this scripture. We are stronger together; how great if we know what we are together for?

Please, if the Holy Spirit leads, speak up - perhaps you see an interpretation that I have missed?

God bless.

I look at your OP more as the how "Yah'-uh''Vay" told Gideon to choose his army.
"Grab a drink of water from the brook."
"If they lap up the water not caring?" Indicating they trusted "Yah'-uh'-'Vay" enough in His ensuring He would not allow for anything harmful to be ingested? THESE ya take!

Now, if they cup the water in their hand/s, carefully examining and pushing away things they would deem unfit to enter their body?
THESE you reject!

Indicative of "Child like faith."

 

[Gottservant]

In the end times, Christians will be fleeing and hiding for their lives. when the antichrist takes full control, you either take his mark and be damned or be killed for reusing it.

No brother! No and a thousand times no! Do you not think God can nip the spread of the mark in the bud? Are the nations that different from one another that what God stops in Israel, He cannot stop in every nation?

Jesus said "pray that you escape and are able to stand" - you have the first part right, Christians may need to flee; but the second part is that wherever Christians are throughout the world, they will stand with the Lord against what is happening.

Is Jesus saying "run"? Is the Holy Spirit saying "abandon the nations"?

We have to get this right in the Lord's strength, or the Lord will be against us!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

No brother! No and a thousand times no! Do you not think God can nip the spread of the mark in the bud? Are the nations that different from one another that what God stops in Israel, He cannot stop in every nation?

Jesus said "pray that you escape and are able to stand" - you have the first part right, Christians may need to flee; but the second part is that wherever Christians are throughout the world, they will stand with the Lord against what is happening.

Is Jesus saying "run"? Is the Holy Spirit saying "abandon the nations"?

We have to get this right in the Lord's strength, or the Lord will be against us!

YOu need to read your bible and see that the end time believers flee for their lives, not fight like an army. Jesus never told us to be militant physically

 

[Gottservant]

YOu need to read your bible and see that the end time believers flee for their lives, not fight like an army. Jesus never told us to be militant physically

Sorry but "fleeing for your life" is nowhere in Revelation.

To repeat what I am saying, we - as Christians - need to be ready for the Holy Spirit to speak through us all at once.

"Submit to God, resist the Devil and he will flee from you" (letters, from memory) - you don't see this as biblical?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Sorry but "fleeing for your life" is nowhere in Revelation.

To repeat what I am saying, we - as Christians - need to be ready for the Holy Spirit to speak through us all at once.

"Submit to God, resist the Devil and he will flee from you" (letters, from memory) - you don't see this as biblical?

Your last line is biblical. But nowhere in Scripture are we called to become militant and form armies "for Christ" to fight eveil

As Paul sadi, the weapons of our warfare are not carnal (buns and bombs etc.) but mighty to the pulling down of strong holds.

And if the Spirit speaks through all of us at once, we will not defeat the Antichrist and Satan during the 7 year tribulation. they are allowed to work until Jesus returns and He defeats them.

And you will not find any command of Jesus for Christians to form armies to physically fight the Antichrist in all of Scripture.

 

[Davy]

And if the Spirit speaks through all of us at once, we will not defeat the Antichrist and Satan during the 7 year tribulation. they are allowed to work until Jesus returns and He defeats them.

Correct that the coming 'war' during the time of "great tribulation" is NOT a literal military war. Jesus showed in Matthew 24:6 that all wars and rumors of war will have stopped for the "great tribulation" time.

But Lord Jesus DID WARN HIS SERVANTS about being DELIVERED UP TO GIVE A TESTIMONY FOR HIM against the beast.

Mark 13:9-13
9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for My sake, for a testimony against them.

10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.

11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

12 Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.
13 And ye shall be hated of all men for My name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
KJV

That coming event during the time of "great tribulation" is what the MAIN purpose of the cloven tongue of Pentecost is for. It was first prophesied of at the end of Joel 2, which Peter quoted and showed that Pentecost was only an 'example' of.

THAT... is WHY... the devil has his servants that creep into Bible seminaries and some so-called Christian organizations that STRESS non-Biblical teachings that Christ's Church will be gone PRIOR to the "great tribulation". Satan wants us to be scared... to make a stand against his beast system at the END.

Satan does not... want Christ's elect to make that 'stand' with giving that Testimony for Jesus with The Holy Spirit speaking through us. The Luke 21 version, Jesus said even the gainsayer won't be able to resist what The Holy Spirit gives Christ's elect to speak in that hour.

Look what Apostle Paul said in Ephesians about the Gospel armor...

Eph 6:12-17
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
KJV

I once heard a preacher teach the above and he said, "Now we don't know what this 'evil day' is...". My spirit wanted to stand up and yell, "I know what it is!". That "evil day" is that future time when some of us will be delivered up to give that Testimony for Jesus against the beast with The Holy Spirit speaking through us! That is the "stand" Paul was pointing to with that "evil day"; it's about the END.

 

[stevesonthebay]

When you consider that basically targeting Christians in the end times or any group requires a radical flip of the basic principles the west had lived by. Then this is a gradual process where the climate is created where such things become acceptable.

Not just acceptable but in the minds of those singling out and persecuting believe that this is good and for the betterment of humankind. Like their existence depends on eradicating a percieved threat. Thus bad is justified for a greater cause.

I think in recent decades this has been what has been happening. The gradual erosion of God and Christian values being replaced by humanist ideologies. Almost like a religion itself. One spiritual or metaphysical reality pitted against another for survival and rights.

I think it takes the deterioration of a culture to get to a point where they think its ok to persecute and kill a certain group. We have examples in the past. '

But I think unlike the past where its was truely about race, and human worth. This is much deeper. We have progressed beyond Rights to a spiritual battle. The political has become personal and in becoming personal it brings in the spiritual. A spiritual battle. \

Therefore it is best tyo stay out of the identity politics or the secular arena in combating this. Rather it is to remain seperated and different. A pure example that cannot be blamed. This will expose the evil and turn people to God in such a dark time.

 

[Davy]

When you consider that basically targeting Christians in the end times or any group requires a radical flip of the basic principles the west had lived by. Then this is a gradual process where the climate is created where such things become acceptable.

Not just acceptable but in the minds of those singling out and persecuting believe that this is good and for the betterment of humankind. Like their existence depends on eradicating a percieved threat. Thus bad is justified for a greater cause.
....

I get the gist of what you're saying, but the situation is not that simple for the END.

The coming "great tribulation" at the END of this world which Lord Jesus warned us about will have TWO different effects upon TWO major groups of peoples. And this is not simply my opinion either, but it is written.

1. The Deceived Brethren by The Coming False-Messiah

These will include many Christian brethren that will 'fall away' to that coming false-Messiah whom they will wrongly believe is our Lord Jesus Christ. The most dangerous Christian group to be in among those are the Churches that push man's false Pre-trib Rapture theory. That false doctrine specifically teaches its congregations to accept the first supernatural miracle-working Messiah that shows up. Yet Lord Jesus and His Apostles warned us against falling away to that false-Messiah who comes first to Jerusalem to play Christ.

Per the Mark 13:9-13 Scripture, these deceived brethren can represent family members that will have those of us delivered up who reject... that first coming Messiah, actually thinking they are helping us. This is why Jesus said brother shall betray brother to death, the father the son.

The idea of children rising up against their parents and causing them to be put to death is a sign of a purge like what Communism has done in the past to its own citizens.

The "great tribulation" for those deceived in the Church is their being fooled by the "strong delusion" God is sending those who don't love His Truth in His Word. They don't study His Word and listen to Him in it, they instead heed men, and trust in those men to save them. Thus they are not prepared to make a 'stand' for Lord Jesus during the tribulation with giving His Testimony against the beast via The Holy Spirit speaking through them.


2. Those Deceived Who Are Without The Faith:

Those who reject Jesus of Nazareth as THE CHRIST, or have yet to hear The Gospel in order to believe on Jesus. These will believe that a higher Creator responsible for the creation of all things, has come to fix all the world's problems, bringing world peace, and teach the nations how to live rightly, and he will even cause CRAFT to prosper for these who agree to bow to him as GOD, though he will be the ultimate false-Messiah.

Thus the "great tribulation" for these deceived will be their wrong thinking that UTOPIA for all peoples has finally come, whether that coming false-Messiah says he is The GOD of The Bible, or an Alien-God that is The Creator of all things. So even the atheist is going to believe in that time being even more greatly deceived.

In BOTH above cases, the tribulation will be about spiritual deception to a fake, an imposter.

And because Christ's elect will reject that coming fake Messiah, we will be hated by the whole world. The deceived will suffer during the time of the testimonies of God's "two witnesses", but won't be able to stop it. Only when Satan as the angel and king over the bottomless pit ascends out of it (cast out to earth) will God's "two witnesses" end their Testimony being killed, and these deceived will then throw parties and send gifts to each other, because they will think their UTOPIA has survived.

 

[stevesonthebay]

I get the gist of what you're saying, but the situation is not that simple for the END.

The coming "great tribulation" at the END of this world which Lord Jesus warned us about will have TWO different effects upon TWO major groups of peoples. And this is not simply my opinion either, but it is written.

1. The Deceived Brethren by The Coming False-Messiah

These will include many Christian brethren that will 'fall away' to that coming false-Messiah whom they will wrongly believe is our Lord Jesus Christ. The most dangerous Christian group to be in among those are the Churches that push man's false Pre-trib Rapture theory. That false doctrine specifically teaches its congregations to accept the first supernatural miracle-working Messiah that shows up. Yet Lord Jesus and His Apostles warned us against falling away to that false-Messiah who comes first to Jerusalem to play Christ.

This suggests that the coming false Messiah will appear very much like Christ that he can fool even the elect. I think any person that would come along and was able to do miracles or supernatural feats would convince a lot of people by that alone. Or at least scare them enough to go along.

By that time if we are seeing supernatural events then we know that we have reached a point where all hell will break loose. A complete paradigm shift. I can see how those without Christs spirit of decernment could be easily fooled.

Per the Mark 13:9-13 Scripture, these deceived brethren can represent family members that will have those of us delivered up who reject... that first coming Messiah, actually thinking they are helping us. This is why Jesus said brother shall betray brother to death, the father the son.

Ah and I thought this was about how Christians and non Christians will start having conflicts. Like how some disown or deperson a family member or friend.

But I can see what you mean. If Christs truth becomes so corrupted by the world then the church could believe a activist approach to stopping certain so called heresay and false teachers. Or being non compliant could be be used to justify such actions in the name of the greater good of world order.

Like some Christians rationalise that denying certain groups their rights or taking punitive action is rightous anger and justified.

The idea of children rising up against their parents and causing them to be put to death is a sign of a purge like what Communism has done in the past to its own citizens.

There is a sort of purge going on now. People are singling out others with different beliefs and giving them a hard time. Get triggered by simply having a different view.

The "great tribulation" for those deceived in the Church is their being fooled by the "strong delusion" God is sending those who don't love His Truth in His Word. They don't study His Word and listen to Him in it, they instead heed men, and trust in those men to save them. Thus they are not prepared to make a 'stand' for Lord Jesus during the tribulation with giving His Testimony against the beast via The Holy Spirit speaking through them.


2. Those Deceived Who Are Without The Faith:

Those who reject Jesus of Nazareth as THE CHRIST, or have yet to hear The Gospel in order to believe on Jesus. These will believe that a higher Creator responsible for the creation of all things, has come to fix all the world's problems, bringing world peace, and teach the nations how to live rightly, and he will even cause CRAFT to prosper for these who agree to bow to him as GOD, though he will be the ultimate false-Messiah.

Thus the "great tribulation" for these deceived will be their wrong thinking that UTOPIA for all peoples has finally come, whether that coming false-Messiah says he is The GOD of The Bible, or an Alien-God that is The Creator of all things. So even the atheist is going to believe in that time being even more greatly deceived.

I think on4e difference will be that the false Messiah is making his kingdom on earth. It will be pleasing and good for how the world is now. Rather than Gods kingdom which is not about making this world a kingdom.

A battle of kingdoms. The world kingdom and Gods kingdom.

In BOTH above cases, the tribulation will be about spiritual deception to a fake, an imposter.

And because Christ's elect will reject that coming fake Messiah, we will be hated by the whole world. The deceived will suffer during the time of the testimonies of God's "two witnesses", but won't be able to stop it. Only when Satan as the angel and king over the bottomless pit ascends out of it (cast out to earth) will God's "two witnesses" end their Testimony being killed, and these deceived will then throw parties and send gifts to each other, because they will think their UTOPIA has survived.

Thankyou, God bless.

 

[Davy]

This suggests that the coming false Messiah will appear very much like Christ that he can fool even the elect. I think any person that would come along and was able to do miracles or supernatural feats would convince a lot of people by that alone. Or at least scare them enough to go along.

When one comes to the reality that God's Word is specifically pointing to Satan himself as that coming false-Messiah to Jerusalem at the END, with his angels, that should get those sealed by The Holy Spirit awakened spiritually and sober.

But many brethren will grieve The Holy Spirit by not listening to Him, but instead will heed what men's doctrines say. Thus they will be subject to the "strong delusion" as well with the unbelieving who will suddenly believe on that false-Messiah.

And Lord Jesus did... reveal that false-Messiah will work great signs and wonders, that IF IT WERE POSSIBLE, would deceive His "very elect." Why will it not be possible for Christ's "very elect" to be fooled by that coming false-Messiah? It's because His very elect are chosen, and sealed by The Holy Spirit, and stay in His Word, and not on man's word.

(The word used there in Matthew 24:24 for that false-Messiah is Greek pseudochristos, made up of 2 Greek words, pseudo which means false, and christos which means Christ, singular. Dr. James Strong in his Strong's Exhaustive Concordance defined that pseudochristos as "a spurious Messiah".)

By that time if we are seeing supernatural events then we know that we have reached a point where all hell will break loose. A complete paradigm shift. I can see how those without Christs spirit of decernment could be easily fooled.

God's Word reveals that the coming time of "great tribulation" will be a time of World Peace, not all out chaos and war. It is especially the Pre-trib Rapture school that wrongly teaches that the great tribulation will be all out war and chaos.

The chaos happens prior... the tribulation, as Lord Jesus made a distinction that when kingdom is against kingdom, many earthquakes happen, pestilences, famines, etc., He said is the "beginning of sorrows" (Matt.24). And He said we shall hear of wars and rumors of war, but don't be troubled, for the END is not yet, meaning the END (the trib) will happen only when ALL wars have stopped. This is why it asks in Rev.13 who can make war with the beast.

Daniel 8 about the coming "king of fierce countenance" (i.e, the Antichrist at the END), says he will destroy using Peace, and will cause craft to prosper by his hand. This is why Apostle Paul showed in 1 Thessalonians 5 that the deceived will be saying, "Peace and safety" when the "day of the Lord" as a thief in the night does come suddenly upon them. It means the "great tribulation" will be a time of world peace, and not all out killing. Even in Revelation 9 we are shown that Satan's host will not be allowed to hurt any green thing, but only 'sting' those NOT sealed with God's Seal for "five months." And they are not allowed to kill them, but only 'sting' them, which points to spiritual deception for the time of "great tribulation."

Ah and I thought this was about how Christians and non Christians will start having conflicts. Like how some disown or deperson a family member or friend.

The main situation for the "strong delusion" to take place in JERUSALEM is not here yet today. It requires the building of the 3rd temple by the unbelieving Jews in Jerusalem, with old covenant worship by them, and the false-Messiah present there who will sit in it and proclaim himself as God.

When that happens, then those brethren deceived by doctrines of men instead of heeding Lord Jesus in His Word about these events, will by mistake think that first Messiah to come will be our Lord Jesus Christ. It won't be. It will be Satan himself 'disguised' as The Christ. By those great signs and wonders and miracles Satan will work on earth, raining fire down from heaven in the sight of men, even the atheists will believe he is God. That is how great a time of deception the "great tribulation" will be. And how would it look if Satan appeared as his old self? It wouldn't deceive anyone. That is why Satan playing Lord Jesus at the end is what the "strong delusion" will be about. In God's parable about Satan in Ezekiel 28, God said He made Satan the full pattern, meaning Satan has the full pattern of beauty of the image of man. So no pitch fork and red flannel underwear and a goatee. He will in every way mimic our Lord Jesus Christ, and that is what the majority are not prepared for.

But I can see what you mean. If Christs truth becomes so corrupted by the world then the church could believe a activist approach to stopping certain so called heresay and false teachers. Or being non compliant could be be used to justify such actions in the name of the greater good of world order.

Well, I'm not certain what you... mean by all that. I'm just sticking to what God's Word reveals about all this. I'm not making it up, nor is it just opinion.

Here's a little 'feeler' for you involving men's doctrines. Just what doctrines of men REJECT any idea that the coming Antichrist/false-Messiah to Jerusalem will be Satan himself? Which doctrines of men wrongly teach that the image of man always means a person in the flesh? What doctrines of men claim the working of miracles and manifestations of angels being seen here walking on earth are past Biblical history, if they happened at all?

In other words, one can find any number of excuses to not heed the actual Bible Scripture warnings about Satan and his angels coming in our earthly dimension at the end to cause the "great tribulation."

Like some Christians rationalise that denying certain groups their rights or taking punitive action is rightous anger and justified.

Sounds like you have gone off in the political and bitterness for some reason.

There is a sort of purge going on now. People are singling out others with different beliefs and giving them a hard time. Get triggered by simply having a different view.

That was a United Nations policy instituted for the nations decades ago. Globalists have been trying to make it a law in all countries, but haven't been able to yet. But that's not going to stop me from proclaiming what God's Word says, that Salvation is ONLY through His Son Jesus Christ and none other.

Yet when the false-Messiah shows up in Jerusalem for the trib, no such law demanding all people to respect all religions won't be needed, because all deceived will believe on that false-Messiah in place of God, by thinking he is God, like Apostle Paul taught in 2 Thess.2:4.

I think on4e difference will be that the false Messiah is making his kingdom on earth. It will be pleasing and good for how the world is now. Rather than Gods kingdom which is not about making this world a kingdom.

A battle of kingdoms. The world kingdom and Gods kingdom.

Thankyou, God bless.

Well, there are many Christian brethren that believe Christ's literal, physical Kingdom already came at the cross, and that it is their specific job to create Christ's Utopia one-world government here now, on earth, for all nations. That is where there exists also a large New World Order faction that are actually Christians, or at least claim to be. They support the idea of World Socialism. And they intend to bring it even though our Lord Jesus Christ has not returned yet. (See ex-history professor Carrol Quigley's book Tragedy and Hope written in the '60's. He was Bill Clinton's history professor at Georgetown, and Clinton endorsed Quigley in his presidential inaugural speech. Quigley said those western Socialists in Britain often work with Communism, and have no problem doing so. Both factions want a "one world government.")

 

[Gottservant]

Your last line is biblical.

[...]

And you will not find any command of Jesus for Christians to form armies to physically fight the Antichrist in all of Scripture.

You agree we can resist the Devil, and you acknowledge that Christ is the one to fight the anti-christ and I assume that you agree that we will meet Christ in the air.

But you abandon people on Earth to be silent about the spread of the mark, as if God can't use Christians to be against it? And you don't agree that what we loose in Heaven is loose on Earth and what we bind in Heaven will be bound on Earth - nor that this applies to us in relation to the mark?

You have to realise the Devil is only going to intimidate people into taking the mark, if he thinks no one has sought God as to whether they should take it or what taking it means. You are stopping short at the idea that we should not take it; but if you are going to dwell on Earth you need to understand what taking it means, too!

 

[stevesonthebay]

When one comes to the reality that God's Word is specifically pointing to Satan himself as that coming false-Messiah to Jerusalem at the END, with his angels, that should get those sealed by The Holy Spirit awakened spiritually and sober.

But many brethren will grieve The Holy Spirit by not listening to Him, but instead will heed what men's doctrines say. Thus they will be subject to the "strong delusion" as well with the unbelieving who will suddenly believe on that false-Messiah.

And Lord Jesus did... reveal that false-Messiah will work great signs and wonders, that IF IT WERE POSSIBLE, would deceive His "very elect." Why will it not be possible for Christ's "very elect" to be fooled by that coming false-Messiah? It's because His very elect are chosen, and sealed by The Holy Spirit, and stay in His Word, and not on man's word.

Yes if someone came along and was doing miracles and supernatural feats anyone would be shocked and suddenly believe there is a god or alien or something beyond them and bow down.

The old saying "I will not believe until I see" comes to mind in how people want the evidence before them before they will believe. So non believers will not be able to tell any different.

But believers who are already open to such belief will find it harder. This is where Gods spirit and the fruits of the spirit will help Christians decern the truth.

The point I was making was that for society to get to the point where we are seeing miracles and supernatural events is itself s complete new worldview. We don't usually see leaders doing miracles or supernatural feats.

(The word used there in Matthew 24:24 for that false-Messiah is Greek pseudochristos, made up of 2 Greek words, pseudo which means false, and christos which means Christ, singular. Dr. James Strong in his Strong's Exhaustive Concordance defined that pseudochristos as "a spurious Messiah".)

Its interesting as pseudoscience is often referred to as something that tries to act like science but is not science and only the orthodox science can know the difference.

This seems to map well onto the false Christ where only those in truth with the spirit can know the difference.

God's Word reveals that the coming time of "great tribulation" will be a time of World Peace, not all out chaos and war. It is especially the Pre-trib Rapture school that wrongly teaches that the great tribulation will be all out war and chaos.

All I know is that satan will do anything to win. His greatest tactic is to copy Christ which means looking good, acting for peace in the world and not being obviously chaotic and destructive.

So the most obvious deception is to create a peaceful earthly kingdom. At least in appearence to the decieved. Theres always a calm before the storm.

The chaos happens prior... the tribulation, as Lord Jesus made a distinction that when kingdom is against kingdom, many earthquakes happen, pestilences, famines, etc.,

I am interested to know if there would be signs leading up to these events. For example climate is getting warmer in many parts of the world which is ideal for explosions of insects. A number of fault lines and even ancient active sites such as volcanos are coming alive and building tension.

We are seeing a definite morphing of kingdoms on the earth such as Us, China, Russia, Iran (Islam), Britain, and Europe. Whereas there was more unity between sat Britain, Europe and US. This is now fracturing into different ideological positions.

He said is the "beginning of sorrows" (Matt.24). And He said we shall hear of wars and rumors of war, but don't be troubled, for the END is not yet, meaning the END (the trib) will happen only when ALL wars have stopped. This is why it asks in Rev.13 who can make war with the beast.

Who would be so powerful. Which current kingdom would have such power to make the rest sacred of them. They can all blow each other off the face of the earth.

None are greater than the other. Perhaps the US, Britain and Europe. But Europe and especially France have gone insane. Other European nations are overcome with immigration and terrorism issues.

Maybe some alien is coming. Thats a point. We have seen some amazing tech happening in the skies recently. If its not aliens then someone has some pretty scary tech at their disposal.

Daniel 8 about the coming "king of fierce countenance" (i.e, the Antichrist at the END), says he will destroy using Peace, and will cause craft to prosper by his hand. This is why Apostle Paul showed in 1 Thessalonians 5 that the deceived will be saying, "Peace and safety" when the "day of the Lord" as a thief in the night does come suddenly upon them. It means the "great tribulation" will be a time of world peace, and not all out killing. Even in Revelation 9 we are shown that Satan's host will not be allowed to hurt any green thing, but only 'sting' those NOT sealed with God's Seal for "five months." And they are not allowed to kill them, but only 'sting' them, which points to spiritual deception for the time of "great tribulation."

The main situation for the "strong delusion" to take place in JERUSALEM is not here yet today. It requires the building of the 3rd temple by the unbelieving Jews in Jerusalem, with old covenant worship by them, and the false-Messiah present there who will sit in it and proclaim himself as God.

I think this is also coming closer to happening as time goes by. Almost like the time came that people began to mention it and then talk about it more and more and it grew in their minds. Now everything is being done in preparation.

When that happens, then those brethren deceived by doctrines of men instead of heeding Lord Jesus in His Word about these events, will by mistake think that first Messiah to come will be our Lord Jesus Christ. It won't be. It will be Satan himself 'disguised' as The Christ. By those great signs and wonders and miracles Satan will work on earth, raining fire down from heaven in the sight of men, even the atheists will believe he is God. That is how great a time of deception the "great tribulation" will be.

If Christians are believing the doctrines of men and the anti Christ comes from those preaching the doctrines of men. Then it is logical that they believe he is the real thing.

Christians should be able to determine the good fruit now as to the difference between Christs church and the doctrines of men.

 

[stevesonthebay]

And how would it look if Satan appeared as his old self? It wouldn't deceive anyone. That is why Satan playing Lord Jesus at the end is what the "strong delusion" will be about. In God's parable about Satan in Ezekiel 28, God said He made Satan the full pattern, meaning Satan has the full pattern of beauty of the image of man. So no pitch fork and red flannel underwear and a goatee. He will in every way mimic our Lord Jesus Christ, and that is what the majority are not prepared for.

Not even Little Nicky lol. I heard a commentator mention in relation to how sin and the devil have been made cool. If Satan was around he would probably be a very popular influencer on social media and even be celebrated. Some modern churches would invite him for a Ted Talk.

Well, I'm not certain what you... mean by all that. I'm just sticking to what God's Word reveals about all this. I'm not making it up, nor is it just opinion

I don't doubt this. I am just trying to imagine it. Identify it happening. What you speak of I think does not come out of the blue. People don't suddenly persecute Christians or become paganistic.

The climate is cultivated beforehand. You can read the signs and know pretty close to what will happen. Like Christ said with the signs that the season is changing and the figs fall from the tree.

Here's a little 'feeler' for you involving men's doctrines. Just what doctrines of men REJECT any idea that the coming Antichrist/false-Messiah to Jerusalem will be Satan himself? Which doctrines of men wrongly teach that the image of man always means a person in the flesh? What doctrines of men claim the working of miracles and manifestations of angels being seen here walking on earth are past Biblical history, if they happened at all?

This is part of the modern idea that everything has an alternative interpretation. So as to recraft Gods word into mans word. And word are especially fought over as though they make the truth themselves. People tend to think the present is all there is. That this has always been the reality and world order.

This is human pride.

But in the blink of an eye or faster, quantum fast. Our reality and world can be made something different. All is possible at anytime for God. In some ways people are being made ready to be fooled. Ready to accept such alternative magic. Anything but the real thing.

In other words, one can find any number of excuses to not heed the actual Bible Scripture warnings about Satan and his angels coming in our earthly dimension at the end to cause the "great tribulation."

Sounds like you have gone off in the political and bitterness for some reason.

Yes I think thats what has happened to a lot of churches. Politics has been mixed in. So its important to be decerning. If many including even the elect are fooled by the world then this will be political ideology. This is the substitute for Christs doctrine.

That was a United Nations policy instituted for the nations decades ago. Globalists have been trying to make it a law in all countries, but haven't been able to yet. But that's not going to stop me from proclaiming what God's Word says, that Salvation is ONLY through His Son Jesus Christ and none other.

Yes I agree and I think now more than ever. Proclaim the simple Good News, take it or leave it. Tell it like it is and don't get into arguements over its truth. Give your testimony and there is no arguement against this. Stand on this even if you are hated for it.

Yet when the false-Messiah shows up in Jerusalem for the trib, no such law demanding all people to respect all religions won't be needed, because all deceived will believe on that false-Messiah in place of God, by thinking he is God, like Apostle Paul taught in 2 Thess.2:4.

Yes and I think we are seeing how the idea that there can be many gods all equal living together in one big happen tent is failing. We are seeing how in reality people demand one truth. Which inevitable means Christ or anti Christ.

It use to be ok Christ can be included. But now it seems he is not welcome so much for some reason.

Well, there are many Christian brethren that believe Christ's literal, physical Kingdom already came at the cross, and that it is their specific job to create Christ's Utopia one-world government here now, on earth, for all nations. That is where there exists also a large New World Order faction that are actually Christians, or at least claim to be. They support the idea of World Socialism. And they intend to bring it even though our Lord Jesus Christ has not returned yet. (See ex-history professor Carrol Quigley's book Tragedy and Hope written in the '60's. He was Bill Clinton's history professor at Georgetown, and Clinton endorsed Quigley in his presidential inaugural speech. Quigley said those western Socialists in Britain often work with Communism, and have no problem doing so. Both factions want a "one world government.")

Theres been plenty of cults and movements about the end times and creating a uptopia on earth. I like Dr Kings idea of the 'Bloved Community'. Naturally growing of of the church of individual born again Christians with one mind and spirit.

I think heaven can begin on earth in a persons heart. The physcial earth won't change, (though I think sometimes it may due to Gods spirit). But the people make it that way by living in the spirit of heaven on earth.

A good example is Matthew 6:19-21 or other verses that mention about people who love their life will lose it. Or the meek will inherit the earth. They all speak of a disposition and humility and sacrifice of what the world thinks is good for something greater beyond.

A practical example would be that members in a church actually sold their possessions to help the poor. Made themselves poor to help others. That would be radical today and even considered foolish. But Gods way is also foolish to men.

But you can see how the straight up teachings taken literally and applied demands this radicalness because the world and church have become so comfortable and fooled by all the wolves Christ warned about. They have had 2000 years to get really good at it.

 

[Davy]

But believers who are already open to such belief will find it harder. This is where Gods spirit and the fruits of the spirit will help Christians decern the truth.

That is where you lack Biblical understanding of what God has shown about this in His Word. It is our Heavenly Father Himself that is allowing... the coming "strong delusion" of a pseudo-Christ appearing in Jerusalem for the great tribulation, working great signs and wonders to deceive the whole... world into believing he is God (2 Thess.2; Matt.24:23-26). How do I mean this? Simple...

All the warnings... given by Lord Jesus and His Apostles against falling away in being deceived by that coming false-Messiah are given specifically to WHOM? To all His Church? Nope, not to His "very elect" which in Matt.24:24 He showed can not... be deceived.

Lord Jesus was specifically pointing to His 'chosen ones' as that "very elect", NOT to those who are 'called' only.

Matt 22:14
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
KJV

In Lord Jesus' prayer of John 17, He revealed a difference between His 'sent' chosen ones, like His Apostles that He and The Father already owned, compared with a second group who would come to believe on Him through the words (preaching of The Gospel) by His chosen sent Apostles. And we are given examples of a chosen one which God has intervened directly with throughout Bible history, like Adam, Enoch, Abraham, Moses, Jonah, David, Elijah and the prophets, even down to Apostle Paul whom Lord Jesus directly intervened with and said was His "chosen vessel" (Acts 9).

This is why the "hour of temptation" that is coming upon the whole world at the END, i.e., Satan coming to Jerusalem to play Christ with a show of miracles to prove it, in plain sight, raining fire down from heaven in the sight of men, will NOT be upon Christ's "very elect", and it's because they do not have free will for Satan to be able to deceive them, for Christ will always intervene with His chosen ones. That's why He said in Matt.24:24 "IF..." it were possible,'. It's not possible for His "very elect" chosen ones to be deceived.

But for those 'called' only... it's a different matter.

If this Biblical fact were not so, then The New Testament writers, especially in Apostle Paul's Epistles, would not have spent so much time admonishing brethren in Christ against falling away. Paul would have always confirmed... no believer on Jesus could ever be deceived, kind of like you... are falsely proclaiming.

And per Paul in 2 Thess.2, he revealed in association with that coming false-Messiah playing God, that there will... be believers on Christ that will be subject to that "hour of temptation", i.e., the "strong delusion", and thus by mistake bow to that false-Messiah thinking he will be our Lord Jesus. And it is our Heavenly Father Who is orchestrating all this, like Paul also showed about the purpose for the "strong delusion" is for those who received not the love of the Truth, but instead put their trust in unrighteousness and the things of this world.

2 Thess 2:10-12
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
KJV

God allows the false prophets to creep into the Church and deceive, IF... the people allow it. That is why five out of the seven Churches in Asia had problems within them. Lord Jesus in John 10 even warned us about the "hireling" that preaches for money and will run when the wolves creep in.

All these things are written in God's Word even though they are hardly mentioned in today's Churches. And I know these are hard things for brethren in Christ to take and understand, mainly because of the lies which the hirelings preach in opposition to these warnings given in God's Word. Today, we are back to the times of old Israel when the people told His prophets to not preach to them God's Truth, but to instead preach to them "smooth things", and "deceits"...

Isa 30:8-16
8 Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a book, that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever:
9 That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD:

10 Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, "Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:
11 Get you out of the way, turn aside out of the path, cause the Holy One of Israel to cease from before us."

12 Wherefore thus saith the Holy One of Israel, Because ye despise this word, and trust in oppression and perverseness, and stay thereon:

13 Therefore this iniquity shall be to you as a breach ready to fall, swelling out in a high wall, whose breaking cometh suddenly at an instant.

14 And he shall break it as the breaking of the potters' vessel that is broken in pieces; he shall not spare: so that there shall not be found in the bursting of it a sherd to take fire from the hearth, or to take water withal out of the pit.

15 For thus saith the Lord GOD, the Holy One of Israel; In returning and rest shall ye be saved; in quietness and in confidence shall be your strength: and ye would not.

16 But ye said, "No; for we will flee upon horses"; therefore shall ye flee: and, "We will ride upon the swift"; therefore shall they that pursue you be swift.
KJV

Need a modern example?? Those charlatans preaching a Pre-tribulational Rapture theory go directly opposite of the time when Lord Jesus Himself showed His coming to gather His saints will be. They reject Jesus' 2nd coming for AFTER the great tribulation that He showed in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27. Pre-trib instead preaches a LIE that Jesus raptures the Church PRIOR to the tribulation. How many believers does that group entail? MANY, MANY!

And who... do you think their charlatan preachers will present the coming pseudo-Christ to them as?? They will think that is Lord Jesus coming to fly them away!

Don't please, don't try and preach men's doctrines to me, for I know what God's written Word teaches, and it certainly does NOT teach that all believers on Jesus Christ will be protected from the coming "strong delusion" deception that Apostle Paul warned the Church about.

 

[Davy]

Not even Little Nicky lol. I heard a commentator mention in relation to how sin and the devil have been made cool. If Satan was around he would probably be a very popular influencer on social media and even be celebrated. Some modern churches would invite him for a Ted Talk.

I recall how the Beatles and Elvis made young girls scream and cry. Imagine what the coming pseudo-Christ will do to many like that.

I don't doubt this. I am just trying to imagine it. Identify it happening. What you speak of I think does not come out of the blue. People don't suddenly persecute Christians or become paganistic.

It has not happened yet, if you are trying to insinuate that. And your above statements I underlined only reveal you reject the Bible warnings about the deceptions by that coming "dragon", "serpent" upon brethren who will fall away per Paul in 2 Thess.2:1-4.

Even Apostle Paul in 2 Cor.11 warned the Church about "that old serpent" and how he deceived Eve. Paul said he wants to present believers to Jesus as "a chaste virgin" (in the spiritual worship sense). But Paul said he was afraid brethren would fall away to the "another Jesus" and "another spirit" preached by false apostles.

So put your false excuse in as many ways as you like, as you did above. Won't matter one bit, because God's written Word is what will come to pass, NOT your word.

 

[Gottservant]

All I can say is "I am ready" - bring the tribulation on!

There aint no way my God is going to let a mark spoil the entire Earth.