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English translations of the Bible

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by stitchy, Oct 17, 2009.

  1. Nomad

    Nomad Post Tenebras Lux

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    The only valid point here is that when it comes to the word "aion" you are clearly wrong.


    The proper translation of the Greek language is not merely part of the issue in this controversy, it's the only issue.
     
  2. Benoni

    Benoni New Member

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    No you are bias in your translation with the word "aion", and i just proved it. So bias you are willing to believe God is going to torture billions and billions of people because He does not have the power to save them, but He has the power to condemn them for ever and ever with no mecry. And you dare call that good news...

    Wrong again on language, God hides his deep spiritual Word from the religious, be it Christian or Jew.
     
  3. Nomad

    Nomad Post Tenebras Lux

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    Oh... I see. Not only do you deny the conventions of established language, you're a gnostic as well. So be it. That really doesn't go well with your universalism. It's actually a contradiction in terms.
     
  4. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly New Member

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    Actually I have posted scripture and you have failed to counter but rather passed over them.
     
  5. Benoni

    Benoni New Member

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    You’re so full of your self. God's Word is spiritual and that is what you are missing. I bet you did not know there are two words of God. You want something Gnostic believes in the literal carnal word, it is called the letter that killeth. Your heresies of damnation killeth, BILLIONS. I showed you about five or six examples of where your language failed in scripture and did not stand up to the very word of God you claim to believe in. They were great example for you did not even try to refute them.

    Actually over all “conventions of established language” is pretty good except when it comes to the pagan word hell and all the doom an gloom interpretations from Babylon. If you don’t believe me just read over the two post I just post and there is a lot more.


     
  6. Benoni

    Benoni New Member

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    Benoni

    You’re so full of your self. God's Word is spiritual and that is what you are missing. I bet you did not know there are two words of God. You want something Gnostic believes in the literal carnal word, it is called the letter that killeth. Your heresies of damnation killeth, BILLIONS. I showed you about five or six examples of where your language failed in scripture and did not stand up to the very word of God you claim to believe in. They were great example for you did not even try to refute them.

    Actually over all “conventions of established language” is pretty good except when it comes to the pagan word hell and all the doom an gloom interpretations from Babylon. If you don’t believe me just read over the two post I just post and there is a lot more.


     
  7. Benoni

    Benoni New Member

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    The problem with your god you trust called “language” is it is based on man and the bias or the past 2000 years, and not divine God’s Word. I showed you where it lacks but you rejected the verses I posted because God has sent you a lie to believe and you reject your first love which is Christ with in you. Your literal word is your god, BUT praise God he hides his deepness from carnal religious men.
     
  8. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly New Member

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    This looks like a good example of gnosticism.
     
  9. Benoni

    Benoni New Member

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    TWO WORDS of God

    Back to the word quick.

    The apostle Paul, speaking of the whole armor of God, admonishes the
    saints to "put on…the sword of the Spirit, WHICH IS THE WORD OF GOD"
    (Eph. 6:17). Then the writer to the Hebrews declares that the sword of
    God’s word is "QUICK." Quick means living and active — LIFE-GIVING!

    "For the word of God that speaks is alive and full of power — making it
    active, operative, energizing and effective; it is sharper than any
    two-edged sword" (Heb. 4:12, Amplified).

    "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing…for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life!" (Jn. 6:63; II Cor. 3:6). The swordof the Spirit is the quickening, energizing, life-giving WORD OF GOD! I shall not hesitate to explain to you, that there are two aspects of the word of God. Jesus Christ is the Word — the Logos —

    THE LIVING, CREATIVE WORD! But there is also that word which Paul calls "the letter." The letter is the outer hull, the bad translations made by bias men pushin their carnal doctrines and creeds, the record and history, the laws and commandments, the rules and regulations, the types, shadows and figures, the external ordinances, rituals, ceremonies, and feasts; the visible form of the word which tells us, in terms understandable by the natural mind, many things about the Living Word, Jesus Christ.

    It should be clear to any thinking mind that the law given by Moses was a word from God. Many, many scriptures confirm that it was the very Lord Himself who spoke to Moses giving him the laws, commandments, judgments, and ordinances. Therefore it is called "the law of the Lord." Yet Paul, in speaking of this word from God, calls it "the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones." Then he further designates it "the ministration of condemnation."

    You, see, the law could only condemn! The only way the law could give life was if one perfectly kept it, but for every broken law there was a penalty. And no one was ever able to keep it! "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God." Therefore the law with all of its commandments, ceremonies, rituals, sacrifices, and observances is a dead word, it is form without essence, law withoutlife, shadow without substance, chaff without kernel, it is the letter that killeth! It is "a word" about "The Word" and therefore shuts men up unto the dominion of death.

    Jesus Christ is the Living Word of God, the sword of the Spirit that quickens, so is the Letter of the Word a deadly sword, killing rather than quickening. Ah, two words and two swords! The flaming sword of the Cherubim is the word of the law which is a ministration of condemnation and death. It keeps men out of Eden, away from the tree of life! But the sword out of the mouth of God’s Christ is a living sword that excellent in glory as the ministration of Life!

    There is a problem with religious man approach to the truth; and I am just as guilty we all have our bias and want people to see it my way. Let “The Spirit of Truth”, reveal too me not; the 10,000 voices of Babylon who all have a different understanding.

    God hides His deep Word and it is so cotrary to the letter that killeth. There is so much more to God's Word then language as we discuss the types, patterns, mysteries, shadows, parables, allegories etc. But the Bible uses these literal things to point to the things of the spirit.

    1 John 2:27
    But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.






     
  10. Benoni

    Benoni New Member

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    Nomad,

    Wow did I win the debate already? ;D

    You say language is everything will if this is true tell me what this deep and awesome verse is declaring?

    1 Peter 2
    6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
    Romans 9
    33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
     
  11. rob

    rob New Member

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    Could it be that the translators interpreted many of the Hebrew and Greek words according to their own understanding of the meaning of the passage. For example, in the KJV of the Bible which I love I will quote two verses one from the OT and one from the NT which show what I mean;

    Genesis 1:2, And the earth WAS without form and void. Now the original Hebrew word, has been interpreted in Gen. 2:7, 2:10, and in 2:19, when Lot's wife 'became' a pillar of salt, as "became" Lot's wife became a pillar of salt". So a more accurate rendering of Genesis 1:2 is "and the earth became without form and void" etc.

    In John 14:2 The Lord Jesus said according to the KJV, In my Father's House are many 'mansions'. Now this verse is used very widely as meaning some physical mansion hanging in the sky somewhere. According to the interpretation of this verse in 2:16, 21; My Father's House refers to the temple, the body of Christ, as God's dwelling place. The original Greek word for "mansion" is firstly "abode". At first the Body of Christ was only His individual Body. But through Christ's death and resurrection, the Body of Christ has increased to become His corporate Body, which is the church, which is the house of God. (1 Tim 3:15; 1 Pet 2:5; Heb. 3:6;) In John 14:26 Jesus said, If anyone loves Me.....My Father will love him, and We will make and abode with him. This is one of the many abodes mentioned in verse 2. It will be a mutual abode, in which the Triune God abides in the believers and the believers abide in Him.
     
  12. Benoni

    Benoni New Member

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    Amen.. In my Fathers house are many mansions; or Greek abiding place. All people have a different abiding place then me. My place is not to condemn that abiding place but to seek, ask and knock to know God in a deeper abiding place that I am now. If God has not called you in another abiding place/spiritual room/spiritual plane/deeper understanding then that is all you can understand. Many are shallow, superficial, and religious or where ever God has placed them; you cannot change that; only God’s spirit has that power to draw all men to Himself.
     
  13. Guestman

    Guestman Active Member

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    To be able to understand the Bible, a person needs a Bible that is accurately translated. An inaccurate Bible (in this case in English) is like having a map that is distorted, street names that are not correct and as result, when used in traveling a person finds themselves in a wrong location. Or it is like having an inaccurate measuring tape, so that when building a home, nothing is square and doors will not shut properly.

    For example, the King James Bible, though authorized by King James I of England in 1604 C.E., has many inaccuracies and inconsistencies. Even though there are now available over 13,000 papyrus and vellum manuscripts for comparative study, dating from the 2nd to the 16th century, containing the whole or a part of the Christian Greek Scriptures (commonly called the "New Testament"), little has changed with regard to the inaccuracy and inconsistencies of the King James Bible.

    With regard to the Hebrew word sheol, the King James Bible has rendered it as “hell” 31 times, as “grave” 31 times and as “pit” 3 times. Due to the way people have understood the word “hell”, as a place of fiery torment, Collier’s Encyclopedia (1986, Vol. 12, p. 28) said concerning “Hell”: “First it stands for the Hebrew Sheol of the Old Testament and the Greek Hades of the Septuagint and New Testament. Since Sheol in Old Testament times referred simply to the abode of the dead and suggested no moral distinctions, the word ‘hell,’ as understood today, is not a happy translation.”

    The Greek equivalent of the Hebrew sheol is hades.(Ps 16:10, Acts 2:31) And the King James Bible has rendered hades as “hell” 10 times. In fact, it has used the English word “hell” when even the Greek word Gehenna was spoken by Jesus as at Matthew 10:28 and Luke 12:5.(New World Translation) Two different Greek words does not mean the same thing, such as blue does not mean green, and especially when given a wrong connotation as the English word “hell” has become in the minds of so many. Few, including religious leaders and Bible translators, have done their “homework” in analyzing the real meanings of various Hebrew and Greek words, and as a result, dispenses that which, in many cases, is not true.

    For instance, the Greek word Raca, at Matthew 5:22. It is left untranslated by many Bibles because of not knowing it’s meaning, though now it is understood, as “an unspeakable word of contempt.”(New World Translation) Within this scripture, the King James Bible also renders the Greek word Gehenna as “hellfire”, again fomenting the false religious doctrine that there is a “hellfire” or “hell”. This leaves the reader to erroneously conclude that there is an everlasting fiery place of torment. Rather than "putting their ducks in a row" and digging for the real meaning of sheol or hades as mankind's common grave, with all there being resurrected from the dead (Rev 20:13) and Gehenna, the "second death"(Rev 20:14), and where no one ever receives a resurrection, many have continued to believe the false doctrine of eternal torment.

    At Ecclesiastes 9:5, Solomon wrote that "the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten." Those who who are alive are well aware that they will die, but the dead "are conscious of nothing at all", not able to be tormented. Furthermore, at Psalms 115:17 says that "the dead themselves do not praise Jah, nor any going down into silence." Hence, the dead are ' silent,' unable to be tormented.
     
  14. Benoni

    Benoni New Member

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    I somewhat agree with most you are saying except for two points.

    Gehenna is not for lost is it for believers. Nowhere in scripture is the word Gehenna used with the lost/heathen etc. But in Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. (Gehenna fire).

    You see Gehenna is a perfect example of not punishing the heathen but God’s people who our disobedient. (brother)

    Here is another example of what happens after death, take note. Nowhere in scripture does it say anything about saving our spirit. It is our soul not our spirit that needs saving.

    Ecclesiastes 12:7
    Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.


     
  15. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    The King James is reliable. (I'm not King James Only..., but it's a good version.)
     
  16. Guestman

    Guestman Active Member

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    Let's examine the King James Bible again,and see how accurate it is. For example, at Genesis 13:1, 3, it says that "Abram went up out of Egypt, he, and his wife, and all that he had, and Lot with him, into the south...And he went on his journeys from the south (Hebrew ne´ghev ) even to Bethel, unto the place where his tent had been at the beginning, between Bethel and Hai;"(King James Bible) How could Abraham go south and reach Bethel ? He couldn't, for Bethel was over 200 miles northeast.

    There is a mistranslating of the Hebrew word ne´ghev that is thought to be derived from a root meaning “be parched” and often denotes the semiarid area S of the mountains of Judah. From the circumstance that this region lay S of Judah, ne´ghev also came to mean “south” and is used with reference to a southern side (Num 35:5), a southern boundary (Jos 15:4), and a southern gate (Eze 46:9). In some translations a distinction between the geographic designation and the compass direction is not maintained, resulting in confusing renderings. Hence, the King James Bible, along with several other Bibles (such as American Standard Version, Young's Bible, Darby's Bible, Webster's Bible) causes a confusion on which way Abraham went.

    At Psalms 99:3, the King James Bible reads of God's name: "Let them praise thy great and terrible name; for it is holy." Is God's name "terrible" ? Not at all. The Hebrew word used is wehan·noh·ra’ and accurately means "fear-inspiring". Thus, the New World Translation reads: "Let them laud your name. Great and fear-inspiring, holy it is."

    Another example is at Deuteronomy 7:21, in which the King James Bible reads: "Thou shalt not be affrighted at them: for the Lord thy God is among you, a mighty God and terrible." Is God "terrible" ? No, for 1 John 4:8 says that "God is love". Some reading the King James Bible could thus gather a misconception of who God is. A more accurate translation of what Moses told the nation of Israel, is: "You must not suffer a shock because of them, for Jehovah your God is in your midst, a great and fear-inspiring God."(New World Translation)

    Again at Deuteronomy 10:17, the King James Bible reads of Moses telling the nation of Israel: "For the Lord your God is God of Gods, and Lord of Lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible (Hebrew wehan·noh·ra’ ), which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:" This leaves the impression that God is again "terrible". Concerning an angel visiting Manoah and his wife, according to the King James Bible, she said: "A man of God came unto me, and his countenance was like the countenance of an angel of God, very terrible: but I asked him not whence he was, neither told he me his name:"(Judges 13:6)

    Is it not any wonder that individuals may regard God as cruel since the King James, along with other Bibles that follow its leading, incorrectly render so many words in its pages and thus cause confusion ? It is more accurately rendered as: "There was a man of the true God that came to me, and his appearance was like the appearance of the angel of the true God, very fear-inspiring."(New World Translation)

    At Nehemiah 1:5, according to the King James Bible, Nehemiah prayed: "I beseech thee, O Lord God of heaven, the great and terrible (Hebrew wehan·noh·ra’ ) God , that keepeth covenant and mercy for them that love him and observe his commandments:" With so many inaccuracies (and these are just a few examples), how can an individual gain an "accurate knowledge" of God and the Bible ? We should want to gain "accurate knowledge" with "full discernment" as Paul wrote at Philippians 1:9 ("accurate knowledge", Greek epignosis, "precise and correct knowledge", The New Testament Greek Lexicon). Using mislabeled maps or the wrong combination on a lock all results in "problems". Likewise, one needs an accurate Bible in order to "understand the fear of Jehovah, and you will find the very knowledge of God."(Prov 2:5, New World Translation)

    On an even more important note, Jesus taught his disciples to pray for God's name to be "hallowed" or sanctified at Matthew 6:9,10. Yet the name of God, Jehovah, is found in the King James Bible only four times, at Exodus 6:3, Psalms 83:8, Isaiah 12:2 and 26:4.(The New King James Bible has completely removed it from its pages) However, the name of God, Jehovah, is found in the Hebrew writings of the scriptures, commonly called the Old Testament, over 6900 times and in which only a few Bibles have consistently and rightfully put back God's name of Jehovah where it belongs.(New World Translation, American Standard Version)
     
  17. sniper762

    sniper762 New Member

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    SPOKEN LIKE A TRUE JW LOL
     
  18. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    Well I'm not JW, either, and I wouldn't recommend the 'New World'.

    I'll stick to my King James, where the Lord Jesus is honored as God. (Other versions do, too, but the 'New World' in a lot of places doesn't.)
     
  19. sniper762

    sniper762 New Member

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    in reference to joseph being a "carpenter", i have heard that the greek word that carpenter came from actually means "one that works with their hands", not necessarily a carpenter. is this true?
     
  20. jerryjohnson

    jerryjohnson New Member

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    Get a Concordance and figure it out yourself.

    Why are you a member of this forum?
     
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