Entire Sanctification = "In Christ"

[Randy Kluth]

That's where we need to be careful-both will continue in the state they are-the ones doing wrong and being filthy is as a result of the state they find themselves, and its an Imperative, that they will remain in that state.

The righteous and holy will as remain as an abiding state, and as you rightly observe-each continues in that way.

Johann.

Again, this is not, in my opinion, simply stating a truism, that wicked always stay wicked and that righteous always stay wicked. It is a suggestion that those who are made to be righteous should continue to act consistent with that reality.

 

[Randy Kluth]

So, lets take you one step farther.

As Real Faith comes down to one understanding..

Its this..

""""I didn't do any "continuance" so that God initially saved me, and so, i dont have to do any to stay saved.""""

I've not been talking about "staying saved."

 

[Johann]

Again, this is not, in my opinion, simply stating a truism, that wicked always stay wicked and that righteous always stay wicked. It is a suggestion that those who are made to be righteous should continue to act consistent with that reality.

That's why it is Imperative for me, at least, to know the Grammar and Morphologies in Scripture-in the verse @marks quoted this is what stands written Randy and those righteous and holy shall continue, in union with Christ, sealed with the Holy Spirit, to remain in a state of their relationship and covenantal walk with our Father.
Many are ignorant re the Imperatives, Middle, and Passive Voices brother.
Johann.

 

[Behold]

who are made to be righteous should continue to act consistent with that reality.

Are you not able to understand that a person comes to the Cross as "unrighteous", "ungodly" and "Yet a sinner"?

God redeems them, with Christ's BLood and Death, while they are "unrighteous", "ungodly" and "Yet a sinner".

Its ONLY GOD's OWN Righteous that He accepts, and that He provides, so that by this = "Gift of Righteousness", we are "made righteous".

Welcome To : Salvation.
Its a "GIFT".

Listen.
A person can be a Adolf Hitler, and kneel before the Cross, and this heinous Jew Killer, 5 seconds later is born again, absolutely EQUAL to God's Righteousness,..... yet, 1 minute earlier, he was a hell bound murdering satanic devil.

So, He didnt continue anything.........All He did was Trust, and God took His Faith in Christ, and Hitler could have become ....

=,"As Jesus is, so are the Born again, in this World"., just like every OTHER Born again Believer.

"God is no respecter of Persons"....He has no respect for your works., as your works , before you are saved are just the same after you are saved.
They're just works., and nothing more.
Not ever.

This is God's righteousness that He gives, and you can't DO THAT....by self effort.
You can be all you can be, as good as you can be, as much as you can, but that is not the same as becoming """"the Righteousness of GOD "in Christ""""., that God requires you to become so that He will Accept you.
He has to provide for you, what He accepts, to accept you.

Welcome To : Salvation

Its a "GIFT".

 

[Johann]

simply stating a truism, that wicked always stay wicked and that righteous always stay wicked.

No, the righteous and holy don't remain in a state of wickedness brother.

 

[Randy Kluth]

That's why it is Imperative for me, at least, to know the Grammar and Morphologies in Scripture-in the verse @marks quoted this is what stands written Randy and those righteous and holy shall continue, in union with Christ, sealed with the Holy Spirit, to remain in a state of their relationship and covenantal walk with our Father.
Many are ignorant re the Imperatives, Middle, and Passive Voices brother.
Johann.

I've resisted asking my brother on this, because it is a question over Greek. We have certain theological differences, and I even see biases in the Protestant commentators. So sometimes I feel like I'm on my own, simply reading the text as it is translated.

Again, it doesn't matter if the individual words are passive. It is the *context* that determines how those words are being used and what they are suggesting. And the suggestion *to me* is a recommendation that those who are righteous *continue to be righteous.* "Let us do this" is not purely a passive state of being--rather, it is an encouragement to remain in the current state of being.

This is not a simplistic truism, indicating that cold water is cold and hot water is hot. No, this is suggesting that hot water *should continue to strive to be hot.* It is an imperative.

 

[Randy Kluth]

No, the righteous and holy don't remain in a state of wickedness brother.

I never said any such thing.

 

[Behold]

I've not been talking about "staying saved."

Well, let me try it this way, and maybe you won't dodge it for the 3rd time.

Ready?

Do you BELIEVE that if you dont "continuance" as you describe it....... then you will lose your salvation"?

 

[Randy Kluth]

Welcome To : Salvation

Its a "GIFT".

Yes, Salvation is a Gift. But we both already knew that....
Being able to receive Salvation is also a Gift, as it being able to be righteous--that's also a Gift. But we both already know this?

The simple reality is that when God speaks a word to us, or invites us to be righteous or to accept Christ, that word enables us to respond--it is a Gift. Did you realize that?

 

[Randy Kluth]

Well, let me try it this way, and maybe you won't dodge it for the 3rd time.

Ready?

Do you BELIEVE that if you dont "continuance" as you describe it....... then you will lose your salvation"?

I haven't dodged you in the least. You continue to imply I believe things when I've never said such things. Such things don't warrant an answer. They're more like persecution than discussion.

For example, I never said we earn our Salvation. I never said we need to "keep our Salvation." But you seem to want me to answer questions about things I've never said. So I have to ignore them.

 

[Behold]

Many are ignorant re the Imperatives, Middle, and Passive Voices brother.
Johann.

No offense.
But, i need you to clarify something, as i can't understand what you are trying to say.

You keep talking about "imperiatives'
And what i hear.........and correct me if im wrong....but are you teaching..>"that you can lose your salvation, unless you keep it by ...whatever your "Imperative" happens to be, that is some type of work, self effort, etc"?

 

[Behold]

I haven't dodged you in the least.

Do you believe you can lose your Salvation ?

 

[Behold]

The simple reality is that when God speaks a word to us, or invites us to be righteous or to accept Christ, that word enables us to respond--it is a Gift. Did you realize that?

Do you realized that ive posted about 50 Threads that teach that Salvation is a Gift.

Ive posted the phrase "The gift of Salvation" at least 1000 times on this Forum, and if i combined that with all the times ive told a Group, or ive posted that on other Forums.
I have no idea the number......its a big number.

 

[Behold]

No, the righteous and holy don't remain in a state of wickedness brother.

The sinner is an unrighteous son of the Devil, until God makes them Righteous by "faith".

"faith is counted as Righteousness".

This person, all of us, came to God, as ungodly.
So, we came to God as ungodly, and unrighteous, and SECONDS LATER, we are equal To God's Righteousness.

The next day, ...... we are still the Same Righteousness, and have not done a single good deed for God yet.

We've been made righteous, and that not by works or keeping the law.

A month later, we are the same.

A billion years from now....the Same God who made us Righteous, through the Cross of Christ, still sees us as "made righteous.".

 

[Randy Kluth]

Let me read Rev 22.11 as it is translated in my Greek/English Interlinear:

..and the righteous [one] righteousness let him do still, and the holy [one] let him be hallowed still."

It *doesn't matter* that the "righteousness" and the "hallowed" are passive conditions brought upon the "righteous" and the "holy." The context dictates that the "righteous" and the "holy" "do righteousness still" and "be hallowed still."

It is an imperative, implying that cooperation is needed to remain in that state continually. It is not a given--it is not a truism. It is not self-evident that the righteous will continue to be righteous or that the holy will continue to be holy. It is imperative that the holy strive to continue to be holy. That is how I read it--the context rules.

 

[Behold]

Let me read Rev 22.11 as it is translated in my Greek/English Interlinear:

..

How do you know that the Translator is telling you the truth.
Do you know them?
Do you know their Theology?

I can get 20 Lexicons, by 20 Greek Text Translators and each will have a different Translation of the K.Greek.

Which of the 20 is right?

Moral of the Story.
Use the BIBLE. but not the NIV., and a few others.

 

[Behold]

Let me read Rev 22.11 as it is translated in my Greek/English Interlinear:

Randy Kluth....

Q.) Do you believe you can lose your salvation. ??????

5th Time ive asked you, Randy., and not just TODAY.

Want to make it 20?
Want me to keep showing the Mods and the Readers that you and Episkops, will not answer that question?
He also wont answer it.

See it?
I think you do.
Did you want to tell us again that you are not "dodging" my Question?
Be careful with that as after a few more times, that becomes a Lie, and you dont want to Lie, right?
Or have you already?

 

[Randy Kluth]

Do you believe you can lose your Salvation ?

No.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Randy Kluth....

Q.) Do you believe you can lose your salvation. ??????

5th Time ive asked you, Randy., and not just TODAY.

Want to make it 20?
Want me to keep showing the Mods and the Readers that you and Episkops, will not answer that question?
He also wont answer it.

See it?
I think you do.
Did you want to tell us again that you are not "dodging" my Question?
Be careful with that as after a few more times, that becomes a Lie, and you dont want to Lie, right?
Or have you already?

I am *not* dodging your question. I don't live here, though at times I can casually check in throughout the day and evening. Let me spell it out for you: No, I do not believe I can lose my salvation, because I've received the Lord willfully and wholly, and have received a new nature that will forever want the Lord in my life. And that desire for him, birthed by him, keeps on wanting to do the right thing, and always will want to do the right thing, even though I can choose to do the wrong thing at times.

Why do you bring the Mods into this? Why do you falsely indicate I've refused to answer your questions? When I get the chance to actually read your questions, I answer them, unless you come across so rude that I don't even finish reading your post. You're lucky I'm even reading this one through!

 

[Randy Kluth]

Do you realized that ive posted about 50 Threads that teach that Salvation is a Gift.

Ive posted the phrase "The gift of Salvation" at least 1000 times on this Forum, and if i combined that with all the times ive told a Group, or ive posted that on other Forums.
I have no idea the number......its a big number.

I should conclude that part of your ministry is to inform people who doubt that they shouldn't doubt their Salvation if indeed they receive it as a Gift. However, there is more than just receiving the fact that it is available as a Gift.

If we truly receive the Gift, we act upon that Gift as it is, inasmuch as it requires us to do something. We are not asked to provide for our own Atonement. However, we are asked to prove that we've truly received the Gift by acting in accord with someone who desires that Gift, which involves righteousness and the love of the Spirit.