Entire Sanctification = "In Christ"

[Randy Kluth]

Here is the best way to believe that...

"God , who began Salvation in all the Born again, Will HIMSELF...be FAITHFUL ... to complete it".

and.

"Jesus the author and FINISHER of our Faith".

That is how you "persevere".

So you're going to resolve the problem of Once Saved Always Saved?
I believe, quite simply, that if one truly embraces Christ and the New Nature he gives us, then we can *know* we have Eternal Life. Once we receive Eternal Life we have truly entered into *Eternal* Life!

 

[Behold]

I believe

Being born a "son of disobedience" does not mean we cannot be born in a general state of righteousness. John the Baptist was born already energized by the Spirit.

Here is how you exist, before you are born again.

Jesus said..."you are of YOUR Father, The Devil".

When you are born again, you change Fathers.


That's irrational. Of course people can do good deeds for God.


Today Hell received thousands more who tried to be like Jesus, did good deeds, gave to the church, and to the poor.
why are they in Hell right now trying to understand why they are in Hell.

Because Jesus said......"You must be born again".....and they weren't.

They did a lot of good deeds tho.
Most were water baptized also., and tried to keep the 10 Commandments.
Some of them liked to argue about their self righteousness on Forums.

1 Peter 1.15 But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; 16 for it is written: “Be holy, because I am holy.”

Here is the best way to believe that...

"God , who began Salvation in all the Born again, Will HIMSELF...be FAITHFUL ... to complete it".

and.

"Jesus the author and FINISHER of our Faith".

That is how you "persevere".

 

[Behold]

Don't be stupid. If I ask you something 6 times in the next hour,

dont be such a dishonest person.

I asked you on different days, not just one day, in an hour.

ive asked the same question of many here....some answer.


Remember "Ferris Bueller" and "Justbyfaith'?

They both told me....>"NO.... Jesus does not keep you saved"".

At least you have not gone that far, yet.
Good for you.

 

[Ritajanice]

Obedience and Perseverance both are done by the enablement of God. The pagan world may unconsciously obey God's word, but it is does nothing for them with respect to Eternal Life

Obedience comes from being birthed in the Spirit, then we are Sins/ Daughters of God...we are his and through walking in faith, we learn to be obedient to the living word of God.

.

Eternal Life comes when we choose not just to do good works but more, to "be good," to adopt the nature of Christ. To be "born again" we adopt a "new nature." That means we want to abandon our own autonomous ways for God's dependent ways. We depend on His Spirit for the virtue that comes from Christ.

Eternal life comes when we have been born again from above, we must be spiritually birthed, an act that only God can do...that’s when we receive that new heart and Spirit within....

That’s when God recognises us as his adopted children, we are his and his alone, we are no longer of this world...we are in the Kingdom of God...

We depend on the Holy Spirit to soften our heart and without the new heart and spirit within us, then we aren’t his,our spirit must be born again...which is a Living birth.

Ezekiel 11:19; Ezekiel 36:26; Jeremiah 31:33; Hebrews 8:10

19 wAnd I will give them one heart, and xa new spirit I will put withinthem. yI will remove the heart of stone from their flesh zand give them aheart of flesh,

 

[Behold]

So you're going to resolve the problem of Once Saved Always Saved?
I believe, quite simply, that if one truly embraces Christ and the New Nature he gives us, then we can *know* we have Eternal Life. Once we receive Eternal Life we have truly entered into *Eternal* Life!

So, you are conditioning being saved as..."as long as you embrace the lifestyle""" that you could try to define as Christianity.... but if you dont, then you would not be saved. (stay saved).

I see.
That's what i thought you kept teaching.

"God saves me and then if i DO ALL THIS CHRISTIAN STUFF, i get to keep my Salvation"

That's "self saving"., not real Faith in Christ.
That's LEGALISM.

 

[Randy Kluth]

So, you are conditioning being saved as..."as long as you embrace the lifestyle""" that you could try to define as Christianity.... but if you dont, then you would not be saved. (stay saved).

I see.
That's what i thought you kept teaching.

"God saves me and then if i DO ALL THIS CHRISTIAN STUFF, i get to keep my Salvation"

That's "self saving"., not real Faith in Christ.

No, I've already told you that we don't strive to "stay saved." Rather, we are exhorted to live consistent with our initial Salvation.

 

[Randy Kluth]

No, I've already told you that we don't strive to "stay saved." Rather, we are exhorted to live consistent with our initial Salvation.

So you believe we should *disobey* the command to "be holy?" You think "being holy" is something we merely receive, and never "do" it? If so, please reconcile 1 Peter 1.15 But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; 16 for it is written: “Be holy, because I am holy.”

This is an exhortation to "do" something--not just to "be" something because somebody else did it for you! "Be holy in all you do."
Either acknowledge that or be viewed as someone who rejects the Bible.

 

[Behold]

No, I've already told you that we don't strive to "stay saved." Rather, we are exhorted to live consistent with our initial Salvation.

So, you are not teaching that "as long as I persevered, i stay saved"?

Right?

Ok, and there was one more question i asked you on "another" day, that im waiting for you to deal with.
Its this one..
Here it is again.

Explain Why.. "The same Jesus who saved you, .....keeps you saved..... no matter how you behave later, after you are saved".

 

[Randy Kluth]

Obedience comes from being birthed in the Spirit, then we are Sins/ Daughters of God...we are his and through walking in faith, we learn to be obedient to the living word of God.

Christian obedience, yes. But non-Christians sometimes unconsciously obey God by adhering to their conscience.

Eternal life comes when we have been born again from above, we must be spiritually birthed, an act that only God can do...that’s when we receive that new heart and Spirit within....

Amen!

 

[Behold]

This is an exhortation to "do" something--not just to "be" something because somebody else did it for you! "Be holy in all you do."
Either acknowledge that or be viewed as someone who rejects the Bible.

Randy.
You told us that you watch movies that have sex in them because, as you said : "i dont think there are any movies that dont have sex in them"

So, you are telling us that when you are watching your sex movies, you are "be Holy in all you do"?
That is your "perseverance" in action, as your real Christianity....

Hummm.
Seems that your own verse is accusing you of not being very honest with God.
What do you think you should do about that, Randy?

 

[Randy Kluth]

So, you are not teaching that "as long as I persevered, i stay saved"?

Right, I've already told you. I believe in the Perseverance of the Saints--one element in TULIP, although I'm not a strict Calvinist.

Salvation takes place at the point where we become "Born Again." From that point on we "stay saved," assuming we didn't just adopt the "knowledge of Salvation," but actually did receive Salvation.

Since many receive and adapt to only the "knowledge" of Salvation, they aren't necessarily going to be Saved until they actually are Saved. This is why nominal Christians must seek to "prove" their Salvation by displaying the New Nature Christ gives them by displaying the fruits of a New Nature. This goes beyond mere "Good Works" to showing that our hearts have been purified by the Blood of Christ.

Right?

Ok, and there was one more question i asked you on "another" day, that im waiting for you to deal with.
Its this one..
Here it is again.

Explain Why.. "The same Jesus who saved you, .....keeps you saved..... no matter how you behave later, after you are saved".

We can, even as truly Saved individuals, choose to go wayward. We can choose to lapse, whether out of bitterness or ignorance, or simply by temptation to capitulate to human weakness

This doesn't mean we lose our Salvation, nor does it mean we never were truly Saved. It just shows that Christians, Saved or not, have a free will, and can live inconsistent with Christian holiness.

 

[Randy Kluth]

So, you are conditioning being saved as..."as long as you embrace the lifestyle""" that you could try to define as Christianity.... but if you dont, then you would not be saved. (stay saved).

I see.
That's what i thought you kept teaching.

"God saves me and then if i DO ALL THIS CHRISTIAN STUFF, i get to keep my Salvation"

That's "self saving"., not real Faith in Christ.
That's LEGALISM.

You completely fail to represent my positions. You don't even use the same words I use. Where did I say we must "embrace the lifestyle?"

 

[Randy Kluth]

Randy.
You told us that you watch movies that have sex in them because, as you said : "i dont think there are any movies that dont have sex in them"

You continue to misrepresent my positions. I did not put it that way. I'm stating the obvious, that if you want to watch movies today, you're going to get some sex in them. One could watch children's movies, or purely G-rated movies. But the reality is, whether it's sex or some perverted viewpoint you're not going to be able to watch movies unless you *endure* a little sex in them.

I'm not that fragile, brother! Maybe you are, and that's okay. I would rather a person abstain than damage his or her relationship with God. But if one lives too insulated from the world he will have trouble communicating with the world. And our testimony will suffer.

For example, the ascetic monks of the Middle Ages were able to bear some fruit in their testimony, but for the most part their contribution was to themselves, to their only little group, or in the copying of manuscripts.

So, you are telling us that when you are watching your sex movies, you are "be Holy in all you do"?
That is your "perseverance" in action, as your real Christianity....

You're a rude, critical person, brother. I wish you'd change your ways. Yes, I try to do all for the glory of God even while watching movies. I don't get offended at God when the only thing I can do to relax and be entertained is watch movies.

My purpose is rest and relaxation, and I think God wants that. I in fact *thank Him* for that! How far we go in secular enjoyments, such as TV and sports I leave up to each individual Christian--it's between him and God.

Hummm.
Seems that your own verse is accusing you of not being very honest with God.
What do you think you should do about that, Randy?

I'm more worried about your Christianity than mine! I think you're in bondage to hate. Please prove me wrong?

 

[Behold]

Right, I've already told you. I believe in the Perseverance of the Saints

Philippians 1:6

 

[Behold]

We can, even as truly Saved individuals, choose to go wayward.

Everytime time you've watched a "sex" movie, you chose to go "wayward" the entire time your eyes were glued to the screen.
And that includes the next one you "willfully" watch.

That's the reality.

 

[Behold]

You're a rude, critical person, brother

You are exposed by your own spiritually ignorant comments.
You dont like it, and i dont blame you, Randy Kluth.
Also, If ive ever heard anything as stupid, as when you said that "i dont think there are movies without sex in them", then i can't remember it, and ive heard some things on forums.
And then, to just nail down the ignorance you compared you sitting there watching it, to professional health care workers dealing with undressed patients.

 

[Behold]

Don't be naïve. If I ask you something 6 times in the next hour, and you are busy doing something else, that doesn't mean you're dodging anything! I've always answered your questions without dodging. That's because I have nothing to dodge, having dealt with these kinds of questions for 50 years, brother. Your insulting ways apparently have no limit?

Still waiting on the explanation regarding the other statement i asked you a few days ago.
Ive posted it once today, again for you.
Need it again?
Or is tomorrow better for you?

Here you go...(again)

Explain why...>"Jesus who saved you, always keeps you saved, no matter how you behave"..

 

[Randy Kluth]

Everytime time you've watched a "sex" movie, you chose to go "wayward" the entire time your eyes were glued to the screen.
And that includes the next one you "willfully" watch.

That's the reality.

The reality is that nudity was not originally meant to be shameful, but yes--we do find ourselves in that uncomfortable position. I just wouldn't call it "wayward." Neither will I call it completely "innocent" either. There's a cost to living here on this alien planet, but Jesus said he didn't come to take us out of the world, but to keep us while we're in it, testifying to him.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Still waiting on the explanation regarding the other statement i asked you a few days ago.
Ive posted it once today, again for you.
Need it again?
Or is tomorrow better for you?

Here you go...(again)

Explain why...>"Jesus who saved you, always keeps you saved, no matter how you behave"..

If I didn't answer you, it wasn't for ignoring a legitimate question. I was under the impression you were endlessly repeating things I've already answered. But I'll indulge you, since you seem to be sincere. Jesus does keep me, no matter how I behave, yes. I may have to forfeit all of my dignity, and all of the prizes given to those who are faithful. But yes, he will save me, because I've chosen him as my Savior, in all sincerity, backed by a changed life.

 

[Randy Kluth]

You are exposed by your own spiritually ignorant comments.
You dont like it, and i dont blame you, Randy Kluth.
Also, If ive ever heard anything as stupid, as when you said that "i dont think there are movies without sex in them", then i can't remember it, and ive heard some things on forums.
And then, to just nail down the ignorance you compared you sitting there watching it, to professional health care workers dealing with undressed patients.

Let me try to encourage you to rise above your obvious rage against me and others like me. You need to set your judgmental spirit aside and start focusing on Jesus, who died for all our sins. Now let me ask *you* a question: Are you trying to correct me in the *love of Christ* or are you harboring a hostile, vengeful spirit against me?

For someone who is supposedly an experienced Christian, seasoned with age, you seem to have very little control over your attitude. Do what I do: write how you feel, and then go back and edit out all of the "less spiritual" parts?