Entire Sanctification = "In Christ"

[Behold]

So, if I understand you correctly-there's no "outworking" in sanctification?

Geez.

C'mon.

Im OUTWORKING trying to get you to get your Faith right.
i'm here for YOU, sillyperson.


WAKE UP. !!

The reason im here is my DISCIPLESHIP. !

The reason im having more patience with you is my "outworking".
The reason i have more Threads Posted here then any other member who ever will......, is = BEHOLD's "outworking".

The reason i spend so much time trying to get forum members to understand their Salvation, is "Outworking".

But here is the thing..... Johann.
If i was not here, if i never taught another student, if i never read the bible again, if i never got down on my knees later today to Pray...., if i never again gave money to the poor,..... if i never again sent free bibles to people,..... if i never again led worship or talked to a group or prayed for the sick..... or any of these WORKS WORKS WORKS.....works works works....

Then, im still "IN CHRIST" "Sanctified", and "made righteous"., and Heaven bound.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Yes, God gives us free will to choose Christ........"BELIEVE".

But our conversation, is not about that.....as what im pointing out is that you say that a person has to come to The Cross, to be saved, ONLY AFTER agreeing to commit to the Christian Lifestyle FIRST.....= as a large part of the Reason that God will accept them..to begin with.

If you are not teaching that < that , then step right up and clearly explain ...

I'll step right up and explain that I think you're constantly harping on something that I'm not saying, and probably something we would agree on. It seems you're constantly arguing that we do not save ourselves? If so, I completely and 100% agree with that.

1) God loved us before we loved Him.
2) God reached out with His Salvation before we reached out to Him. It is by *His revelation* that we are able to respond and be saved.
3) Jesus' death on the cross and resurrection is the work that atones for our sin and saves us. There is nothing that sinful Man can do to get saved apart from our appeal to Christ's work of atonement.
4) Human works have no value with respect to attaining to Eternal Life except the work in which we choose to respond to Christ's offer of Salvation through his atonement and through our choice to live a life dependent on God. This means that all men are able to do good works. But no works achieve Eternal Life or Salvation unless they begin with a choice to follow Christ and to adapt to a life in partnership with Christ, the "branches being connected to the vine."

You seem to eliminate human volition or human will in the matter of our choice to be saved? If not, please explain in the context of our discussion?

I will just add this for clarity. You accept human volition or free will. At least, you do so in the matter of the "choice to believe." We both agree this is a "human work?"

So I would go farther and say that when we choose to believe in Christ we are simultaneously choosing to *follow Christ.* That is, we choose to follow what he represents, as well--his righteousness and the basis of his atonement for our sins. We agree to live in partnership with God, dependent upon the Holy Spirit for our virtue, obedience, and spirituality.

We are not constantly being told what to do in life, what time to get up in the morning, what job to do, who to marry. God does guide us in these decisions, and sometimes even tells us specifically what to do. But many decisions we make in life are choices God gives us to make, in consultation with Him. He wants us to be responsible, and not slaves. He wants to see if we're willing to lean on His wisdom, and to obey Him when He specifically wants something from us.

Over all, we know that everything we do must be done in His love. So whatever freedom He gives us to do, we must ensure that love is part of it. Otherwise, there are things God may specifically tell us to do, but many things He leaves to our judgment, to see if we depend upon His wisdom and guidance in all things.

I think we're having problems because you're arguing one side of the coin, and I'm arguing the other? Or, is it that you limit human freedom only to the choice to believe, and think that human will has nothing to do with choosing for righteousness? In other words, do you reject the operation of human will in doing good works entirely, including works done in partnership with Christ?

 

[Ritajanice]

Then, im still "IN CHRIST" "Sanctified", and "made righteous"., and Heaven bound.

AMEN!!!

 

[Johann]

Attained what?

Well, each believer is on the way, gaining knowledge, but not all have attained ..."as many as be perfect".

Most believers are locked down into trying to self will.
They are striving.
They are trying to use will power to be a Christian.

They have not attained the correct MIND yet, that understands that the power to live Holy, is found not in self will, or will power, or trying to achieve it by self effort.

 

[Randy Kluth]

AMEN!!!

Are you saying "Amen" to one who claims that he posts more than anybody ever will on Christian forums and then claims to live "in Christ?" Are you saying "Amen" to one who suggests he is obedient, giving, and supportive of Christian ministry while simultaneously belittling other Christians? Are you saying "Amen" to one who claims to be a long-standing, mature Christian who shows little grace to those who disagree with him? Is this your idea of "mature Christianity?" Or, are you simply agreeing to one true statement he makes with no regard to the gist of his spirit and attitude?

 

[Ritajanice]

Most believers are locked down into trying to self will.
They are striving.
They are trying to use will power to be a Christian.

I did that, what happened,I burnt out as I was trying to show God how nice, kind,loving,etc,etc...doing in my own strength....it’s all a learning process in the Spirit @Behold .....has taken years and years for God to renew my mind, he’s still doing it to this very day......

 

[amigo de christo]

Remeber we are to forgive others as the Lord has forgiven us.

View attachment 32451

Also there is nothing sinful about having sex. God created it for a purpose. Its those who abuse the purpose that will end up hurting from doing so. As sexual sin damages the body.

Remeber we are to forgive others as the Lord has forgiven us.

View attachment 32451

Also there is nothing sinful about having sex. God created it for a purpose. Its those who abuse the purpose that will end up hurting from doing so. As sexual sin damages the body.

And if he repent forgive him . While sex among two marrified folks is not a sin .
Singing about stroking it in a song , HAS NO PLACE within the church
Lusts of the heart has no business in the church .

 

[Randy Kluth]

Geez.

C'mon.

Im OUTWORKING trying to get you to get your Faith right.
I could be watching a movie or practicing my guitar or making a meal, as i need to EAT.
But im here for YOU, sillyperson.


WAKE UP. !!

The reason im here is my DISCIPLESHIP. !

This is the problem, as I discern it, brother. You are high as a kite on yourself and view *your discipleship* as equal with *God's discipleship.* They are not the same thing! You can formulate all kinds of works and disciplines without any of them being truly done in conjunction with God.

Saying you post more than anyone is likely untrue and at any rate a pretty boastful thing to say. I'm sure you can rely on the Bible where Paul "boasts," but you would not necessarily be following the same spirit as Paul exuded when he claimed he was the "least of the Apostles!"

Maybe you need to check and ensure that "your discipleship" is actually and genuinely "God's discipleship?" I don't think it is, based on your boasting and condescension, etc. I don't find you to be more brilliant than everybody here--nor more spiritual than everybody here. Trying to prove that runs counter to the spirit of the Gospel.

You're going to find it awfully hard to argue this and to prove how spiritual and humble you are! The only way to truly prove your worth is by living it in conjunction with the Spirit of Christ. And Christ didn't spend time boasting about how he was wiser than everybody else, more diligent, more righteous. He just was and let the truth speak for itself.

 

[Ritajanice]

Are you saying "Amen" to one who claims that he posts more than anybody ever will on Christian forums and then claims to live "in Christ?"

I’m saying Amen to exactly what he has preached.

Instead of us getting on our high horse, listen to what the Spirit of God is saying to us through Behold.

Unfortunately some of us think we know it all, we don’t....especially me....I have learnt a lot from Behold..why, because he is in the Spirit....my belief....not saying I understand everything he posts, if I don’t ,I ask him to clarify and he does....

Excellent in his teaching.....my opinion and belief....

Praise God that he showed me my pride, arrogance,ego, and how I used to take so much “ personally “ which is all about the flesh/self....which profits nothing and can stunt our growth in Christ...

We are to humble ourselves...

 

[Randy Kluth]

I’m saying Amen to exactly what he has preached.

Instead of us getting on our high horse, listen to what the Spirit of God is saying to us through Behold.

Unfortunately some of us think we know it all, we don’t....especially me....I have learnt a lot from Behold..why, because he is the Spirit....my belief....not saying I understand everything he posts, if I don’t ,I ask him to clarify and he does....

Excellent in his teaching.....my opinion and belief....

Praise God that he showed me my pride, arrogance,ego, and how I used to take so much “ personally “ which is all about the flesh/self....

Then I question your judgment. If he shows you your arrogance why don't you show him his arrogance?

 

[Ritajanice]

Then I question your judgment. If he shows you your arrogance why don't you show him his arrogance?

He never showed me my arrogance...God did sometime back....

Behold is in the Spirit..no question about it....he can’t stand flattery either....I have grown as a born again..listening to the Spirit through Behold.

Who am I to show anyone their arrogance.

Matthew 7:3-5

New International Version

​

3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

 

[Johann]

He never showed me my arrogance...God did sometime back....

Behold is in the Spirit..no question about it....he can’t stand flattery either....I have grown as a born again..listening to the Spirit through Behold.

Heb 5:11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.
Heb 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
Heb 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
Heb 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Have a good day.

 

[Randy Kluth]

I’m saying Amen to exactly what he has preached.

Instead of us getting on our high horse, listen to what the Spirit of God is saying to us through Behold.

Unfortunately some of us think we know it all, we don’t....especially me....I have learnt a lot from Behold..why, because he is the Spirit....my belief....not saying I understand everything he posts, if I don’t ,I ask him to clarify and he does....

Excellent in his teaching.....my opinion and belief....

Praise God that he showed me my pride, arrogance,ego, and how I used to take so much “ personally “ which is all about the flesh/self....which profits nothing and can stunt our growth in Christ...

We are to humble ourselves...

You might want to edit or to explain your statement about Behold: "he is the Spirit?" Perhaps you meant that he often speaks by the Spirit and helps you in areas of your need? But Behold certainly is not "the Spirit!" ;)

I don't understand, however, how you think he is "excellent in his teaching?" Perhaps there is a lot of biblical truth in his teaching, but in my experience with him, he utterly ruins his biblical teaching with his personal insults directed at those who may disagree with him.

To teach Christianity and to live Christianity are two very different things! They should be the same, but often they are not. My wish is that he humbles himself and learn what Paul means when he exhorts us to "consider others better than yourself."

 

[marks]

The goal of faith is not heaven someday, but Christlikeness every day!

For me this is the heart. Well, almost. For me, the goal of faith is sharing my day with God. Or maybe better said, God sharing this day with me.

It results in the righteousness we want to attain to. It results in the peace we want in our hearts. It results in my becoming more like Him.

(You've given me a lot to take in and meditate on . . . I may need some time.)

Much love!

 

[Randy Kluth]

He never showed me my arrogance...God did sometime back....

You earlier said he did, but then later edited it out. You said: "Praise God that he showed me my pride, arrogance,ego, and how I used to take so much “ personally “ which is all about the flesh/self...."

You said this in the context of arguing in favor of *Behold's teaching!* We are warned to take note of those who wish to argue and divide Christians. The true Spirit of Christ unites us in love, builds us up in love. It doesn't boast, as Paul said in 1 Cor 13.

"4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud."

 

[Ritajanice]

Let us humble ourselves before the Lord.


Pride, will stunt our growth in the Lord....I have personal experience of that....when we humble ourselves , God can and will work in us.

Hold onto pride, God will flee as he hates it...when I say flee..I don’t mean he will leave us, he won’t.....you won’t get anywhere holding onto pride...as it’s all about self...when it should be all about the Spirit.

 

[Ritajanice]

You earlier said he did, but then later edited it out. You said: "Praise God that he showed me my pride, arrogance,ego, and how I used to take so much “ personally “ which is all about the flesh/self...."

You said this in the context of arguing in favor of *Behold's teaching!*

Misunderstanding I think.

Very much in favour of the Holy Spirit leading me through Behold, Praise God I’m starting to grow again in the Lords knowledge.

I do believe the Lord led me to Behold....as he really speaks to me through the Spirit....that’s my opinion and belief,Brother.thats all I’m saying.

 

[amigo de christo]

There is a huge problem that has occured within christendom .
IF any reminds warns to be hearers and doers , its all attacked like its self righteous
works . But lets examine this .
How often GOD , Christ , the prophets and apostels reminded the people YA BETTER BE DOING
and also things they better not be DOING . It seems we have one part in all of this .
OBEY GOD HIS CHRIST THE SPIRIT . I think folks act like we have zero choice , absolutely no free will .
But how often again CHOOSE ye this day comes up .
How often paul reminded the church to CONTINUE IN CHRIST . TO die daily . TO STIR ONE ANOTHER UP .
TO be doing good and to flee all appearance of evil . We reside in a contrary body of flesh .
And let me remind us all , CHOOSE TO HEED THE SPIRIT and NOT the FLESH . STIR and remind one another daily
of all warnings and all reminders . FOR GOD WORKS and has always worked through HIS CHURCH , HIS BODY .
THE SPIRIT warns us , the SPIRIT unctions us , so do men who are filled by that spirit also by that same SPIRIT
warn all , remind all to be DOING the things pleasing to GOD and to abstain from all evil .
GOD , CHRIST , KNOWS HOW TO KEEP a CHURCH SAFE . SO we see he worked through the apostels
who always reminded , warned , beheld both the goodness and severity of GOD .
THERE IS A REASON FOR THIS . GOD KNOWS WHAT KEEPS HIS CHURCH SAFE . GOD KNOWS HOW TO KEEP
one from falling . HEED THE VOICE OF THE GREAT SHEPARD OF THE SHEEP WHO TRULY IS ABLE
to keep one from falling . BUT BEWARE , for if we heed not his voice , FALL WE WILL .
Heed the SOUND DOCTRINE . It shall indeed make one wise unto salvation through FAITH N CHRIST .
Now for a question to all . O man and men and all that has breath , HOW DO YOU KNOW
IT IS THE TRUE JESUS CHRIST you do follow and not rather what men have sold unto you as being jesus and his doctrine .
READ THE BIBLE and do it daily . FOR if any spirit , any voice , any man , any woman , any child or even an angel
or a speaking donkey does speak , IF THE WORDS CONTRADICT that which is already written in that bible ,
FLEE ITS VOICE and dont look back .

 

[Johann]

For me this is the heart. Well, almost. For me, the goal of faith is sharing my day with God. Or maybe better said, God sharing this day with me.

It results in the righteousness we want to attain to. It results in the peace we want in our hearts. It results in my becoming more like Him.

(You've given me a lot to take in and meditate on . . . I may need some time.)

Much love!

As always, please feel free to correct error if and when you find it brother-I was up very early this morning, listening to uncle Bob on Romans 6-reminds me of this-


Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
Act 17:12 Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

--and here, take heart brother-

Php 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Php 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Php 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Php 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
Php 3:16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.
Php 3:17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.
Php 3:18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
Php 3:19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)
Php 3:20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
Php 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Uncle Bob have a powerful preaching on this portion of Scripture brother, and I "feel" like I'm walking on a cloud-there's still hope for me and hope deferred makes the heart sick.

Shalom to you and family
Johann 6:16 PM.

 

[amigo de christo]

Heb 5:11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.
Heb 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
Heb 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
Heb 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Have a good day.

Lest my GOD shall humble me and i shall BEWAIL many who have sinned and not repented .
PRIDE is anything which exalts itself against GOD , His teachings HIS WORD .
Pride can often come in a fake humility form . They can appear to be humble and gentle
but beware , for many are filled with REBELLION , WITH PRIDE . REBELLION , i say , OF THE WORD AND THE WORDS OF GOD .
Rebellion is as the SIN OF WITCHCRAFT . Take heed we must . Take heed unto all things given us
in the scriptures . TAKE HEED unto the SPIRIT and heed not the flesh .
Many are now preaching open rebellion against GOD . And worse they have come in and do use the very name
of HIS CHRIST . But they preach REBELLION . For no matter if a man uses HIS NAME
if the man is in open rebellion , teaching and speaking things that are evil and calling them good
and calling good evil . THEY ARE IN REBELLION and under the guise of the Man of lawlessness . And inquity has
abounded and through a love that preaches OPEN REBELLION against GOD and HIS CHRIST
have many now fallen prey to a lie that simply cannot and will not save them . STAY IN the BIBLE
and let us simply exhort the HOLY TRUTH of the doctrine which giveth instruction in righteousness
so that the man of GOD may be throughly furnished unto ALLLLLLLLL good works . SEE , PAUL KNEW THE DIRE
importance of SCRIPTURE . We must contend for the true faith till our last breath .