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Thank you brother, believe it or not, this was posted to my brother @marks and somehow ended up with you, but thank you for the video clip-I'm listening. Powerful.
Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
No, you're completely wrong. The true Gospel requires that lost men come to Christ to choose to follow Christ. Men do not miraculously get saved, apart from their choice, and then do good works in Christ. Salvation apart from our will is not in the Gospel at all. This is something you'd have to invent to claim it is the Gospel. It is, in fact, a False Gospel.
It is true, however, that Christ loved us even before we were saved. "We love because he 1st loved us." But this is a far cry from saying we have no will at all.
When he loved us 1st, he reached out to us while we were still sinners. And he then gave us a choice to follow him.
In choosing to follow him we exercise our will, and thus choose to participate in him and in his righteousness, which also obtains the value of his atonement. Our work does not produce this righteousness, nor does our work produce this atonement. Rather, our work in choosing and in believing enables us to receive it so that we can choose to participate in it further.
Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
You appear to be saying that the sinner, in seeking to be saved, is not actually pursuing Salvation at all because *he is using his own will?* God reaches out to the sinner in order to elicit from the sinner a choice to follow Christ. That choice is utterly dependent on the will of the recipient of this invitation. If you think not, then you think human will plays no role whatsoever in getting saved? We are then saved by whose will? Just God? And if so, why would God only choose some people to get saved, and damn others, completely *apart from their will?*
Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
Read the first 2 Paragraphs of the epistle, as they will tell you that the Letter is written to the "church" or the "believers', ect.
HEBREWS is different, and that is why its address to : HEBREWS, vs, "the Church" or "the body of Christ'.
HEBREWS< are Jews.
Yes, God gives us free will to choose Christ........"BELIEVE".
But our conversation, is not about that.....as what im pointing out is that you say that a person has to come to The Cross, to be saved, ONLY AFTER agreeing to commit to the Christian Lifestyle FIRST.....= as a large part of the Reason that God will accept them..to begin with.
If you are not teaching that < that , then step right up and clearly explain ...
Not according to the 1st Chapter of Each Epistle
Read carefully, as you didn't have time to look yet.......
Check it out.
III. Paul’s use of this OT concept
A. Paul bases his new understanding of YHWH and the OT on his personal encounter with Jesus on the road to Damascus (cf. Acts 9:1-19; 22:3-16; 26:9-18).
B. He found OT support for his new understanding in two key OT passages which use the root (אמן).
1. Gen. 15:6 – Abram’s personal encounter initiated by God (Genesis 12) resulted in an obedient life of faith (Genesis 12-22). Paul alludes to this in Romans 4 and Galatians 3.
2. Isa. 28:16 – those who believe in it (i.e., God’s tested and firmly placed cornerstone) will never be
a. Rom. 9:33, "put to shame" or "be disappointed"
b. Rom. 10:11, same as above
3. Hab. 2:4 – those who know the faithful God should live faithful lives (cf. Jer. 7:28). Paul uses this text in Rom. 1:17 and Gal. 3:11 (also note Heb. 10:38).
IV. Peter’s use of the OT concept
A. Peter combines
1. Isa. 8:14 – 1 Pet. 2:8 (stumbling block)
2. Isa. 28:16 – 1 Pet. 2:6 (cornerstone)
3. Ps. 118:22 – 1 Pet 2:7 (rejected stone)
B. He turns the unique language that describes Israel, "a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession" from
1. Deut. 10:15; Isa. 43:21
2. Isa. 61:6; 66:21
3. Exod. 19:6; Deut. 7:6
and now uses it for the church’s faith in Christ (cf. 1 Pet. 2;5,9
V. John’s use of the concept
A. Its NT usage
The term "believed" is from the Greek term pisteuō. which can also be translated "believe," "faith," or "trust." For example, the noun does not occur in the Gospel of John, but the verb is used often. In John 2:23-25 there is uncertainty as to the genuineness of the crowd’s commitment to Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah. Other examples of this superficial use of the term "believe" are in John 8:31-59 and Acts 8:13, 18-24. True biblical faith is more than an initial response. It must be followed by a process of discipleship (cf. Matt. 13:20-22,31-32).
B. Its use with prepositions
1. eis means "into." This unique construction emphasizes believers putting their trust/faith in Jesus
a. into His name (John 1:12; 2:23; 3:18; 1 John 5:13)
b. into Him (John 2:11; 3:15,18; 4:39; 6:40; 7:5,31,39,48; 8:30; 9:36; 10:42; 11:45 48; 12:37,42; Matt. 18:6; Acts 10:43; Phil. 1:29; 1 Pet. 1:8)
c. into Me (John 6:35; 7:38; 11:25,26; 12:44,46; 14:1,12; 16:9; 17:20)
d. into the Son (John 3:36; 9:35; 1 John 5:10)
e. into Jesus (John 12:11; Acts 19:4; Gal. 2:16)
f. into Light (John 12:36)
g. into God (John 14:1)
2. ev means "in" as in John 3:15; Mark 1:15; Acts 5:14
3. epi means "in" or "upon," as in Matt. 27:42; Acts 9:42; 11:17; 16:31; 22:19; Rom. 4:5, 24; 9:33; 10:11; 1 Tim. 1:16; 1 Pet. 2:6
4. the dative case with no preposition as in Gal. 3:6; Acts 18:8; 27:25; 1 John 3:23; 5:10
5. hoti, which means "believe that," gives content as to what to believe
a. Jesus is the Holy One of God (John 6:69)
b. Jesus is the I Am (John 8:24)
c. Jesus is in the Father and the Father is in Him (John 10:38)
d. Jesus is the Messiah (John 11:27; 20:31)
e. Jesus is the Son of God (John 11:27; 20:31)
f. Jesus was sent by the Father (John 11:42; 17:8,21)
g. Jesus is one with the Father (John 14:10-11)
h. Jesus came from the Father (John 16:27,30)
i. Jesus identified Himself in the covenant name of the Father, "I Am" (John 8:24; 13:19)
j. We will live with Him (Rom. 6:8)
k. Jesus died and rose again (1 Thess. 4:14)
VI. Conclusion
A. Biblical faith is the human response to a divine word/promise. God always initiates (i.e., John 6:44,65), but part of this divine communication is the need for humans to respond
1. repentance
2. faith/trust
3. obedience
4. perseverance
B. Biblical faith is
1. a personal relationship (initial faith)
2. an affirmation of biblical truth (faith in God’s revelation, i.e., Scripture)
3. an appropriate obedient response to it (daily faithfulness)
Biblical faith is not a ticket to heaven or an insurance policy. It is a personal relationship. This is the purpose of creation, humans being made in the image and likeness (cf. Gen. 1:26-27) of God. The issue is "intimacy." God desires fellowship, not a certain theological standing! But fellowship with a holy God demands that the children demonstrate the "family" characteristics (i.e., holiness, cf. Lev. 19:2; Matt. 5:48; 1 Pet. 1:15-16). The Fall (cf. Genesis 3) affected our ability to respond appropriately. Therefore, God acted on our behalf (cf. Ezek. 36:27-38), giving us a "new heart" and a "new spirit," which enables us through faith and repentance to fellowship with Him and obey Him!
All three are crucial. All three must be maintained. The goal is to know God (both Hebrew and Greek senses) and to reflect His character in our lives. The goal of faith is not heaven someday, but Christlikeness every day!
C. Human faithfulness is the result (NT), not the basis (OT) for a relationship with God: human’s faith in His faithfulness; human’s trust in His trustworthiness. The heart of the NT view of salvation is that humans must respond initially and continually to the grace and mercy of God, demonstrated in Christ. He has loved, He has sent, He has provided; we must respond in faith and faithfulness (cf. Eph. 2:8-9 and 10)!
The faithful God wants a faithful people to reveal Himself to a faithless world and bring them to personal faith in Him.
freebiblecommentary.org
The Great Commandment - Mark 12:28-34: Berean Bible Church
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Johann,
Ive asked you to stop TROLLING my Threads, with your cut and paste theology, that is not related to the Thread's Topic, as defined by the TITLE of the THREAD.
It is absolutely related, and last time I've checked-this is not YOUR thread but a public Forum-correct?
The Forum is Public.
The Thread, i wrote.
You are on My Thread.
Do you comprehend?
You are invited to reply to the Thread's topic.
Its this..
"Entire Sanctification", "IN Christ'.
That is not an invitation for you to post "works of the believer"....."Cut and Paste" "verses".
Just deal with the Thread's Topic.
Its really that simple.
See, "being IN Christ", is to be Sanctified by the BLOOD of Jesus., alone., exactly as a believer is REDEEMED.
Being born again, is the fruit of that Sanctification.
This is unrelated to commandments, law keeping, or self effort that we would do AFTER we are Sanctified by the Blood of Jesus.
You believe in entire sanctification, no room for progressive sanctification?
NT HOLINESS / SANCTIFICATION
The NT asserts that when sinners turn to Jesus in repentance and faith (cf. Mark 1:15; Acts 3:16,19; 20:21), they are instantaneously justified and sanctified. This is their new position in Christ. His righteousness has been imputed to them (cf. Gen. 15:6; Romans 4). They are declared right and holy (a forensic act of God).
But the NT also urges believers on to holiness or sanctification. It is both a theological position in the finished work of Jesus Christ and a call to be Christlike in attitude and actions in daily life. As salvation is a free gift and a cost-everything lifestyle, so too, is sanctification.
Initial Response A Progressive Christlikeness
Acts 26:18
Romans 15:16
1 Corinthians 1:2-3; 6:11
2 Thessalonians 2:13
Hebrews 2:11; 10:10,14; 13:12
2 Peter 1:2 Romans 6:19
2 Cor. 7:1
Ephesians 1:4; 2:10
1 Thess. 3:13; 4:3-4,7; 5:2
1 Timothy 2:15
2 Timothy 2:21
1 Peter 1:15-16
Hebrews 12:14
No?
Biblical, sound sermon-please give it a listen.
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The Thread is teaching what it means to be 'in Christ', ...as Sanctification.
Like this...
"""""" But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption""""
That is finished. Its a part of Salvation, in that the believer is sanctified, exactly as they are justified. exactly as they have eternal life.
Its not what we do.....its who we have become, "in Christ".
The verse teaches that Jesus's Sanctification is "made unto us", exactly as God's Righteousness as "the Gift of Righteousness", is how and why we become "made righteous". and "Made free from sin".
So, all of this is our finished redemption........its "the Gift of Salvation".
And that is entirely completed.....
Do we then "present our body a living sacrifice", and walk the walk of faith daily?
Of course.
But we do it, knowing who we have become, "in Christ".
Paul teaches....>"i die daily".......yet He teaches that He is already Sanctified "in Christ".
So, there is that, which is completed by God......and there is that which is our discipleship.
We can't become more Holy than we are already made Righteous by God's "gift of Righteousness".
There is no work you can do, or deed you can perform, or lifestyle you can pursue that can equal the Holiness of God.
Its all just works.
The believer is made righteous, so that they can live with the power of Christ in them, so that God can live His Life through them.
God's LIFE is purity, holiness, LIGHT, righteousness........So, that is all we can become as we allow God to become "it is not I who live, but Christ who lives in me".
We can't DO THAT.......we have to BECOME that........ and its progressive.
Yet, the entire time we are Growing in Grace, we have already received "Christ's Righteousness".
So how do you exegete---
Php 3:12 It is not a fact that I have already secured it or already reached perfection, but I am pressing on to see if I can capture it, the ideal for which I was captured by Christ Jesus.
Php 3:13 Brothers, I do not think that I have captured it yet, but here is my one aspiration, so forgetting what is behind me and reaching out for what is ahead of me,
Php 3:14 I am pressing onward toward the goal, to win the prize to which God through Jesus Christ is calling us upward.
Php 3:15 So let us all who are mature have this attitude. If you have a different attitude, God will make it clear to you.
Php 3:16 However, we must continue to live up to that degree of success that we have already reached.
Now, I can explain this, but you won't agree-so what is your take on this?
I "believe in" the Righteousness of God that is "entire sanctification" that is given to the born again.
ITs a part of Redemption.
Our "entire Sanctification" is based on being "IN Christ"..>"one with God".
That happened the instant you were born again....
The next day, you started as "made righteous", but you had to learn how to exist in God's Salvation.
That is "working out your Salvation"........that is to learn HOW to be what God has already caused you to become "in Christ".
Learning it, is to pursue the renewed mind, and achieving it, is to have the "renewed mind"., or as Paul teaches.....as many as "BE Perfect".
= They have Achieved the renewed mind.
Few get there.
Well, first, your bible verse is flawed... As He is not talking about attaining "perfection"
He is explaining that He has not attained verse 11.
Read verse 11, in a KJV, or a different translation, and verse 11 explains what Paul has not yet achieved.
Read Verse 11
Horrible bible version. It should say "high calling"..
So anyway..
"the PRIZE of the High Calling of God in Christ".
Now notice where this "prize" is located. Its located "in Christ".
The "high calling" is to arrive to one simple thing...
"The fullness of the Stature of Christ". Ephesians 4:13
That is where you are supposed to EXIT in REAL FAITH that is RIGHT BELIEVING.
If you are worrying about 1 John 1:9, and repenting, then you are definitely not there.
And what is that Prize that is the ARRIVAL of this fullness of the Stature of Jesus? Its this place of Spirituality. Galatians 2:20
"it is not I who live, but CHRIST Who lives IN ME"..
That is where you are to be....to exist, as that is the PRIZE for every believer to come into, on EARTH, by Right Believing.
Real Faith is to exist in the Mind of Christ, which is to Walk in the Spirit.
This is not repenting and confessing and doing it wrong for 40 yrs.
This is not to worry about losing your salvation and obsess on commandments for 50 yrs.
See, that stuff is YOUR MIND, and that is carnal, walking in the flesh.
What is Carnal?
Everything that isn't God's mind or God's perspective.
Its the Human point of view, the HUMAN reasoning, the HUMAN secular understanding that tries to understand all things of GOD by the HUMAN comprehension point of view.
And that is not possible. You cannot understand God or understand God's Grace, or understand how to please God, by your opinion, or your reasoning power or your carnal mind.
Saint....God exists in the Spiritual Realm. God is A Spirit. And we who have been born again into God's Spirit, must learn how to exist in a "like" mind. The mind of Christ. ='"walking in the Spirit".
How do you start?
Its just 3 simple things you have to BELIEVE.. and once you really believe them......and not just understand them to be true.......understand?
When you leave the "i see that"...and enter the "I TRUST THAT", realm, then you have Real Faith.
Here they are..
1. Based only on the blood of Jesus, you are always kept in perfect PEACE with God, at all times, no matter what you do. Romans 5:1
2. Your Salvation is a Gift from God to you, and you will never be parted from it. Not ever, for any reason. Romans 5:17
3. All your sin is forgiven. Past, present, future. Colossians 2:13
So, Saint, depending on how far you are from believing those 3 simple Spiritual truths is exactly how far you have to go in your walk of Faith to please God with Real Faith in Christ, which then will become your REST from SELF.... and your entrance into the place of perfected Discipleship. The right MIND....."walking in the Spirit" "in Christ".
That is a horrible bible version.
Here is what it should say.
'""""" Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: """""""
He's talking about the renewed mind, and your bible version has twisted the verse into incoherance.
The verse should say this...
""""Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained"""
Attained what?
Well, each believer is on the way, gaining knowledge, but not all have attained ..."as many as be perfect".
Most believers are locked down into trying to self will.
They are striving.
They are trying to use will power to be a Christian.
They have not attained the correct MIND yet, that understands that the power to live Holy, is found not in self will, or will power, or trying to achieve it by self effort.
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