Yeah. Makes sense. No sense in elaborating other than the notion that I believe the bible is a trustworthy source despite spectulation. It is not word perfect, however it has an abundance of spiritual principles laid out for any individual seeker.
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Like i said; even despite having the claim that “jesus came”, i believe by faith Jesus never lied to those first century christians, and the aposltes never lied to them either.
That is why i believe that beliving in the second coming today is the wrong hope to have; you are gonna see jesus when you die, i believe.
The hope should be having new life now today by the spirit, and knowing youll be rewarded on the behalf of christ by God for doing so after here, living for God and Christ, but also the hope of being with God in the kingdom as his child or son or daughter.
That is why i believe that beliving in the second coming today is the wrong hope to have; you are gonna see jesus when you die, i believe.
The hope should be having new life now today by the spirit, and knowing youll be rewarded on the behalf of christ by God for doing so after here, living for God and Christ, but also the hope of being with God in the kingdom as his child or son or daughter.
Johann
Well-Known Member
Johann
Well-Known Member
Well see, there are some whom have hope and faith he did come. Some whom read the bible assume its talking to them, and they are waiting.
So its all about perception and ones on way of believing. Does it offend you, that i already believe this? My apologies if it does cause it is something i believe by faith.
Everyone is gonna meet jesus, at death, and i have faith and hope in this as well.
- Can one confess Jesus and be saved while remaining defiled?
- Does the OP espouse that the defiled will enter the Kingdom of God?
20 And he [Jesus] said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.
21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.
Johann
Well-Known Member
TERMS FOR THE SECOND COMING
There are several terms and phrases that refer to Jesus' return.
1. parousia" (i.e., James 5:7), which means "presence," was used of a royal visit (cf. Matt. 24:3,27,37,39; 1 Cor. 15:23; 1 Thess. 2:19; 3:13; 4:15; 5:23; 2 Thess. 2:1,8; 2 Pet. 1:16; 3:4,12; 1 John 2:28)
2. epiphaneia, "face to face appearing" (i.e., 1 Tim. 6:14; 2 Tim. 1:10; 4:1,8; Titus 2:13)
3. apokalupis, "unveiling" or "revealing" (i.e., 1 Cor. 1:7; 2 Thess.1:7; 1 Pet. 1:5,13; 4:13; 5:1)
4. "the Day of the Lord" and the variations of this phrase
The NT as a whole is written within the worldview of the OT, which asserted
1. a current evil, rebellious age
2. a coming new age of righteousness
3. this would be brought about by the Spirit's agency through the work of the Messiah
The theological assumption of progressive revelation is required because the NT authors slightly modify Israel's expectation. Instead of a military, nationalistic-focused (Israel) coming of the Messiah, there are two comings.
The first coming was the incarnation of deity in the conception and birth of Jesus of Nazareth. He came as the non-military, non-judicial "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53; also the mild rider on the colt of a donkey (not a war horse or kingly mule), of Zech. 9:9. The first coming inaugurated the New Messianic Age, the Kingdom of God on earth (see Special Topic: The Kingdom of God). In one sense the Kingdom is here, but of course, in another it is still far off.
It is this tension between the two comings of the Messiah which, in a sense, is the over-lapping of the two Jewish ages that was unseen, or at least unclear, from the OT . In reality, this dual coming emphasizes YHWH's commitment to redeem all humanity (cf. Gen. 3:15; 12:3; Exod. 19:5 and the preaching of the prophets, especially Isaiah and Jonah;--
The church is not waiting for the fulfillment of OT prophecy because most prophecies refer to the first coming (cf. How to Read the Bible For All Its Worth, pp. 165-166). What believers do anticipate is the glorious coming of the resurrected King of Kings and Lord of Lords, the expected historical fulfillment of the new age of righteousness on earth as it is in heaven (cf. Matt. 6:10).
The OT presentations were not inaccurate, but incomplete.
He will come again just as the prophets predicted, in the power and authority of YHWH
The Second Coming is not a biblical term, but the concept forms the worldview and framework of the entire NT. God will set it all straight. Fellowship between God and mankind made in His image will be restored (cf. Revelation 21-22). Evil will be judged and removed (cf. Rev. 20:11-15). God's purposes will not, cannot, fail!
freebiblecommentary.org
Brother, I took a tour through the CULT site-Ultra Libertarians-and according to the leader-the Scriptures have been reinterpreted to "fit in the already appearing of the second coming of Messiah"-whilst believers in Christ await the Second Advent/Parousia of our ever present coming Savior.
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Johann
Well-Known Member
I think maybe it comes from:
Hebrews 9:24-28 KJV
24) For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
25) Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
26) For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
27) And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
28) So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
I've come more to just say, He's coming in power and glory.
Much love!
You should post your question to the "Op", as im here to answer your question.
Happy to do it for you. 07-07-07
Listen,
If God has given you Salvation through the Blood of Jesus, then your sin is resolved 2000 yrs ago.
How?
The CROSS of Christ.
= "God hath made JESUS to BE SIN for us".
= "Jesus is the ONE TIME......ETERNAL Sacrifice for sin".
So, what is the RESULT of those 2, regarding the BORN AGAIN....."New Creation"... ."In Christ".....???
A.) " But NOW being made FREE FROM SIN...., and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. """""
Now....
What you have to understand, 0707070, is that if you have sin, then you are not born again.
You can't have sin, and be born again.
You can't have sin and be "In Christ"
You can't have sin and be "One with God"
You cant have sin and be "seated in Heavenly Places'
You can't have sin and be "a new creation in Christ".
The reason the born again have no sin, is because Jesus has their sin... and died for them ALL.
So.....What do the born again now have as their Salvation?
"The GIFT......of Righteousness".
Whose Righteousness?
A.) God's.
So, if the born again have God's Righteousness, then they are never going to be defiled, as they are always going to be "made righteous" by God's "gift of Righteousness."
Welcome to : Salvation
Its a eternal "GIFT".
The born again have met Jesus, already, MatthewG.
He lives in them.
"Christ IN YOU, the hope of Glory".. (Glory is Heaven)
This makes that Heavenly "Judgment seat of Christ" meeting, something to realize, reader.
As a matter of fact, i teach my students that a way to keep your focus on Jesus, and "presenting your body a living sacrifice" ..... is to often think about the fact that we are going to the "Bema" seat, and Jesus is going to have a LOOK at := "what you did im MY BODY".... down here.
He is going to actually look at everything we ever did for God and Christ.
He wont be checking these deeds for effect or end results....>He will be checking them for our HEART MOTIVE.
A.) Why did you do it. ??????
Did you do it for the Love of God,....... or for the attention of People,.... or for the selfish worldly gain you could achieve by the deed. ?
"heart motive".
He's always looking at that single FRUIT, down here, and later on up there when you meet Him, Reader.
Johann
Well-Known Member
From a Baptist pastor whom I adore-Bob Utley, brother-he is helping me through the Holy Spirit to really "listen"-I don't have fellowship here in South Africa and the "few" churches around me are lukewarm, tepid, as I once was, so uncle Bob is my Pastor.
Mar_13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
Matthew 24:44
“Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.”
Matthew 25:13
“Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.”
Mark 13:35
“Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning: ”
Philippians 3:20–21
“For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: ”
“Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.”
1 Corinthians 15:51–52
“Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,”
“In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.”
1 Thessalonians 4:16–18
“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:”
“Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. ”
“Wherefore comfort one another with these words.”
2 Thessalonians 3:5
“And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ.”
Titus 2:13
“Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;”
Hebrews 10:25
“Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.”
Hebrews 10:37
“For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.”
1 Peter 4:7
“But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.”
1 John 2:28
“And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.”
1 John 3:2–3
“Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. ”
“And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.”
Revelation 1:1
“The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:”
Revelation 1:3
“Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.”
Revelation 3:11
“Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.”
Revelation 22:7
“Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.”
Revelation 22:10
“And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.”
Revelation 22:12
“And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.”
Revelation 22:20
“He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.”
Bless you @marks
Stay strong and rooted in Christ Jesus.
Shalom to you and family.
Quoting scripture is great.
You realize none of it was written to you.
It was a history of a time of living people.
One could argue it is all addressed to people today, but honest assessment and if you consider the 1 st century to have real people who saw jesus christ,
Along with after the death and resurrection,
The Apostles - who were in charge of the bride of Christ
Address specific people - such as the people in thessalonica, philippians, epeshians,
That to me is the real test.
Was it all really written to Austrilians, or Usa, oe Germany, and then the end comes?
I only know the nation of Israel; and that for us outside or inside of israel everyone dies and goes to meet their maker.
You realize none of it was written to you.
It was a history of a time of living people.
One could argue it is all addressed to people today, but honest assessment and if you consider the 1 st century to have real people who saw jesus christ,
Along with after the death and resurrection,
The Apostles - who were in charge of the bride of Christ
Address specific people - such as the people in thessalonica, philippians, epeshians,
That to me is the real test.
Was it all really written to Austrilians, or Usa, oe Germany, and then the end comes?
I only know the nation of Israel; and that for us outside or inside of israel everyone dies and goes to meet their maker.
Johann
Well-Known Member
Brother-please, Mashiach has not yet come, we are awaiting the SECOND PAROUSIA of our risen Lord, you don't hold that the Scriptures are infallible, God-breathed, if you do, then you are in contradiction with your leader-Ultra Libertarian what's his name?
These Scripture references are still yet future, not, as your leader teach, Messiah has already come to fetch His bride, this is contrary to what stands written, Perfect Tense.
Do you believe in the replacement theory?
Well it seemed to me you started to become of having more of an accusitivie attitude due to different beliefs.
I respect you either way.
Johann
Well-Known Member
Feeling is mutual brother-I'm not here to accuse you, but I do realize I can come on strong, too strong for some.
God bless
Johann.
There are a series of teaching on Rom 6 brother.
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