Ephesians 2:15 and Colossians 2:14

[dak]

You can’t dismiss the analogy in Romans 7:1–2, no matter how hard you try. You’re faced with a choice: either accept it and apply it as intended, or reject it outright. There’s no room dak's own personal interpretation.

False accusation: I did not dismiss it.

 

[Hiddenthings]

We are all to be taught of Elohim:

Isaiah 54:11-13 KJV
11 O thou afflicted, tossed with tempest, and not comforted, behold, I will lay thy stones with fair colours, and lay thy foundations with sapphires.
12 And I will make thy windows of agates, and thy gates of carbuncles, and all thy borders of pleasant stones.
13 And all thy children shall be taught of the LORD; and great shall be the peace of thy children.

Isaiah 54:13 OG LXX (Septuagint)
13 And all thy sons shall be taught of God, and thy children shall be in great peace.

John 6:44-45 KJV
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. [Isa 54:13] Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. [Gal 3:24]

Isaiah 8:13-20
13 Sanctify the LORD of hosts himself; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread.
14 And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
15 And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken.
16 Bind up the Testimony, seal the Torah among my disciples.
17 And I will wait upon the LORD, that hideth his face from the house of Jacob, and I will look for him.
18 Behold, I and the children whom the LORD hath given me [Heb 2:13] are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion.
19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?
20 To the Torah and to the Testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Hebrews 2:13 KJV
13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me. [Isa 8:18]

Bind up the Testimony, seal the Torah among my disciples.......To the Torah and the Testimony: if they speak not according to this Word, it is because there is no light in them.......(see also John 11:9-10).

You are way out of your league, not because of me, but because you are at war against the Father and His Word. But speaking of Mosheh, we know he is not dead, for Elohim is not elohim of the dead.

Once again, there's no mention here of the Abrahamic Covenant or the promises fulfilled through faith in Christ.

At this point, it's evident that you're quoting passages like Isaiah 8 without a true understanding of how the Torah was actually fulfilled or what it was teaching!

Isaiah 8:20 If they do not speak according to this word, there will be no dawn for them. This rendering, following the AV margin, highlights that those described by the prophet will have no light of morning, no resurrection (Isa 26:19; Psa 110:3)

Can you see the irony?

 

[Hiddenthings]

Yes.

But how many of my questions have you answered? The answer is none.
I am growing tired of your petty games.

Okay, that makes sense now! I should have asked this from the outset.

 

[Hiddenthings]

False accusation: I did not dismiss it.

Yes, you have dismissed it because you explained it away.

 

[Hiddenthings]

The Gospel Truth is foolishness to those that are perishing.

But you hold to the flesh dak and I'm the one perishing? It is you who openly state the Law can save. That Sarah is in bondage and the promises (Abrahamic) in Christ are not yes.

Corinthians 1:20 (ESV): For all the promises of God find their Yes in him (Christ). That is why it is through him that we utter our Amen to God for his glory.”

Your focus is on Law not the Promises.

I'm yet to see you once refer to anything but the Law (Torah).

 

[Hiddenthings]

What you've done is take the imagery of the dead husband, the slave, and the flesh, and wrongly apply it to Sarah—the one who represents freedom. You're assigning to her what is old, set aside, and done away with, and trying to impose that on her, even though she has already been set free from it.

Hagar speaks to Law (condemns)
Sarah speaks to Faith by Promise (Abrahamic = saves)



Literally, THE SPIRIT was poured out under the “New Covenant” in Christ (Sarah), called newness of spirit. It was not evident under the Law, called “Old Covenant” (Mosiac) or “oldness of the letter.”

Galatians 3:1–5 1 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified.
2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?
3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?
4 Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?
5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith?

 

[dak]

I'm replying to my own posts now (wow)

You are merely spewing: I am the one actually doing the answering.

Literally, THE SPIRIT was poured out under the “New Covenant” in Christ, called newness of spirit. It was not evident under the Law, called “Old Covenant” or “oldness of the letter.”

Where is the scripture evidence for this opinion?

Galatians 3:1–5 1 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified.
2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?
3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?
4 Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?
5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith?

As already stated elsewhere, and pointed to also herein, "the works of the law" is an idiom used by all the four main sects in the first century. In the places where Paul uses it he is speaking of the "works of the law" according to their doctrines and dogmas foisted upon the people, which the Meshiah nailed to the stake and set us free from.

This idiom is also found in scroll fragments from Khirbet Qumran written by the Ḥessenin just before the advent of Meshiah. It was their understanding of the Torah, out of all the four main sects, that was probably the closest to the Testimony of the Meshiah, (but not in full agreement). The following is a good start for anyone who seeks the truth of the matter. The evidence is crystal clear, but when such things refute a paradigm, they get ignored by those only seeking to maintain a particular view for obvious reasons. It is a long read but well worth the time for anyone who is truly seeking to understand what Paul means by the phrase/idiom "works of the law".

4QMMT and Paul's "Works of the Law" (Galatians 2)

The acronym MMT are the first letters of the Hebrew words in the name assigned to the manuscript, Miqsat Ma'aseh ha-Torah. Translated, the words mean "a selection of the works of the Law" or "significant works of the Law." The Dead Sea Scrolls may shed important light on what this phrase meant...

reesecommentaries.com

@dak I've color coded it for ease of understanding.

Spiritual adultery would be endeavoring to be married to the Flesh (Law) and Christ simultaneously.

You've already married yourself off to the beloved daughters of the doctrines of fallen men, as also in the days of Noah, so the continuing accusation is an empty and meaningless judgment by someone who has no clue about what he is reading in the scripture.

 

[dak]

The New Covenant does dak - how many times must you be told?

You already confessed recently that the new-renewed covenant is for the house of Yisrael and the house of Yhudah, which it is: but then you also say that it has not yet come to pass, which is yet another denial of N/T doctrine, (Heb 8 quoting verbatim for Jer 31). I call buffoonery: your answer is based on a covenant that you say has not even yet begun.

You cannot even speak to his arguments!

Open your eyes and ears you might be able to see and hear that's what I have been doing here.

So, you believe you stay under the tutoring of the old School Master?

Are you also hard of hearing when you read with your eyes and do not see? Perhaps this is another reason why you should slow down and actually read (for comprehension) what others are saying and posting to you. It has already been rehashed a second time in this thread, and now I need to post it all a third time for you?

Still no mention of the Abrahamic Covenant.

You have not seen this: Paul's Gospel Reply#58. It is surely related to Paul's teaching on the same. As said before: those who read Paul in a vacuum only deceive themselves.

Quote:
False gospel yet again: the passage in Yakob aka James teaches against what you say.
It isn't hard to understand except for indoctrinated people:

James 2:21-23 KJV
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled [Gen 22:12] which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: [Gen 15:6] and he was called the Friend of God.

Indeed, it was many years after Gen 15:6, but just as the Gospel unto us, Gen 15:6 was only the beginning of his faith because the fulfillment of the statement in Gen 15:6 was not fulfilled until his faith was tested in Gen 22, and he was proven by way of obedience to the commandment(s) of the Most High.

The Greek word for faith also means belief; biblical faith and belief do not mean what most people seem to think: scripture belief is the kind which brings a change in the walk of the one who truly believes what he or she hears and understands in the scripture. Hyper dispensationists are a good example, saying they believe in the Meshiah while claiming his all important Testimony in the Gospel accounts "was only for the Jews" and not directed toward themselves.
End Quote.

Are you a hyper-dispy too? seeing that you say the covenant of Jer 31 and Heb 8 is yet to be fulfilled?
It sure sounds like you are.

 

[dak]

Once again, there's no mention here of the Abrahamic Covenant or the promises fulfilled through faith in Christ.

Once again ignoring the fact that Hebrews informs the faithful that the will of Elohim must be done before one receives the Promise, ignoring also, the fact that it speaks of a vision: a vision I know you have never been through or you would not do the deeds you do to myself and others on this board.

At this point, it's evident that you're quoting passages like Isaiah 8 without a true understanding of how the Torah was actually fulfilled or what it was teaching!

Isaiah 8:20 If they do not speak according to this word, there will be no dawn for them. This rendering, following the AV margin, highlights that those described by the prophet will have no light of morning, no resurrection (Isa 26:19; Psa 110:3)

Can you see the irony?

Wow, you found shachar and think I didn't know that was there.
Tell me more about what I already know.

 

[dak]

But you hold to the flesh dak and I'm the one perishing?

Yet another false accusation, empty, meaningless, and only bringing more judgment down upon yourself. Funny how ignorant babblers always show they are right UNDER the Torah by their actions and deeds which they do in defiance of the teachings and words of both the Master, and Paul, and the other Apostles which have written sacred texts.

It is you who openly state the Law can save.

Please quote the post where I said that: otherwise it's just another false accusation. And if it is not clearly stated then it is probably just another one of your misunderstandings of other peoples' words, which is no doubt related to your misunderstandings of what you read the scripture. Show the proof or get reported.

That Sarah is in bondage and the promises (Abrahamic) in Christ are not yes.

Is this a statement? or are you again putting words in my mouth?

Corinthians 1:20 (ESV): For all the promises of God find their Yes in him (Christ). That is why it is through him that we utter our Amen to God for his glory.”

And???

Your focus is on Law not the Promises.
I'm yet to see you once refer to anything but the Law (Torah).

It matters not to me what you imagine, or the things you think you see or do not see.

 

[dak]

What you've done is take the imagery of the dead husband, the slave, and the flesh, and wrongly apply it to Sarah—the one who represents freedom.

Again, false accusations. What kind of paradigm king tells his slave to read other peoples' words like that? Quote the posts where I said or even suggested that Sarah is the imagery of a dead husband, or of the slave, which is clearly Hagar the Egyptian, or that Sarah represents the flesh. You are lying to save your own skin.

You're assigning to her what is old, set aside, and done away with, and trying to impose that on her, even though she has already been set free from it.

Only in the machinations of your vain imagination. We've been over the whole passage: you did not agree with plainly stated scripture, that is not my fault or problem.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Again, false accusations. What kind of paradigm king tells his slave to read other peoples' words like that? Quote the posts where I said or even suggested that Sarah is the imagery of a dead husband, or of the slave, which is clearly Hagar the Egyptian, or that Sarah represents the flesh. You are lying to save your own skin.

Just like the Scriptural evidence stands against you - your own changes by your hand condemn you.

Like I said - at some point you will be forced to change this back.

Romans 4:13 – “The promise to Abraham… did NOT come through the law but through the righteousness of faith.”

I think in time you will regret making that change - maybe you did it in haste without thinking - like I said the truth of it will eventuate - pride or no pride.

 

[Hiddenthings]

James 2:21-23 KJV
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled [Gen 22:12] which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: [Gen 15:6] and he was called the Friend of God.

All you need to do is remove the Mosaic Law from Sarah and put it back with Hagar

Romans 3:28 – “For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.”

I know you can do it dak!

 

[Hiddenthings]

@dak

Romans 3:28 – “For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.”

The law does not operate on the principle of faith. Instead, it says, ‘The one who does these things will live by them’" (Galatians 3:12, quoting Leviticus 18:5).

Do you live by them dak?

Galatians 3:12 “But the law is NOT of faith, rather ‘The one who does them shall live by them.’”
Leviticus 18:5 “You shall therefore keep my statutes and my rules; if a person does them, he shall live by them: I am the LORD.”

 

[Hiddenthings]

Wow, you found shachar and think I didn't know that was there.
Tell me more about what I already know.

The splendor of the dawn is by faith, not Law dak! It's by promise, not the letter.

Galatians 3:18 "For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise."

Galatians 3:29 "And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise."

It amazed me you did this


To write and not understanding the foundation of faith and salvation and you put And???

Come on dak surely your bias excludes the promises and the inheritance through them?

Romans 3:28 "For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law."

Romans 4:13 "For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith."

There is little more I can do for you dak if you won't acknowledge Faith, Promises, New Covenant and the Inheritance what more can be done which has not already been shown to you?

 

[Hiddenthings]

Galatians 3:11-12 "Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for 'The righteous shall live by faith.' But the law is not of faith, rather 'The one who does them shall live by them.' ​

​

John 3:5-6 "Jesus answered, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.'"​

What’s strange is, if you believe Sarah represents being saved by the Law, then why didn’t you change “Born of the Spirit” to “Born of the Flesh”?

 

[dak]

@dak

What are the Oracles of God?

The same Living Oracles which Stephen speaks of in Acts 7:38, (already mentioned to you elsewhere), and as Stephen also makes known in the same place, he speaks of the Living Oracles in the Torah. The Living Oracles and the Oracles of Elohim are Living Sayings which contain the Logos of the Father.

Hebrews 5:8–14 Although he was a son, he learned obedience through what he suffered.
9 And being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him,
10 being designated by God a high priest after the order of Melchizedek.
11 About this we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing.
12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food, 13 for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child.
14 But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.

Let's see if we can find agreement on something!

I believe this is referring to the Law of Moses. I also believe the New Testament is a commentary on the Old Testament.

Do you agree?

Yes, the "basic principles of the Oracles of Elohim" are indeed the "milk of the Word" and Peter also agrees with the author of Hebrews in your quote.

Logos is reason and reasoning, (at the least in basic terms), and logikos is logical reasoning, (logic), which derives from logos, and which is used for the rational-logical (pure milk of) the word in 1Pet 2:2.

Logos is reason and reasoning, (at the least in basic terms), and logikos is logical reasoning, (logic), which derives from logos, and which is used for the rational-logical (pure milk of) the word in 1Pet 2:2.

So 1 Pet 2:2 is also speaking of the Torah, which contains the pure milk of the Word because it contains, (in Living Sayings or Living Oracles), the Logos of the Father, and the Logos is the Word, (John 1:1), but it is much deeper than Rhema because it/he is actually the meaning which the Father intends in the things which He speaks: the Logos is the understanding of the Rhema which is spoken and then written. This is why it is not enough to have the Rhema, (cf. John 5:39-40, John 5:45-47), but rather the understanding of the Father, (His so-called paradigm) which is actually what is intended in all His words, that is what is most necessary. This is even true with belief: for how can one believe what he does not even understand? And therefore any bold emphatic statements made by the Meshiah in the Gospel accounts cannot be ignored, sidelined, or disbelieved: for they are absolute and like rock solid ground, (grounds for critical doctrines).

Acts 7:38, Romans 3:2, Hebrews 5:12, 1 Pet 2:2, 1 Pet 4:11a.

Does this not confirm what I have said? We enter into the heavenly family of Elohim as babes, then we grow (in the Word) into a child which is still yet under the schoolmaster, (Gal 3:24), and tutors, and governors, (Gal 4:1-2), though he be destined to be master over all: (Gal 4:1-2), then comes the time appointed of the Father, (Gal 4:2), when the child becomes a tried, true, and tested adult, that is, a truly proven son of Elohim. And, again, no father puts his untested babe or child in charge of all his goods.

 

[Hiddenthings]

What's disappointing is you cannot discern how God used the Law (Torah) to achieve His Purpose in Christ. Hence Paul asks the question:

Do we then nullify the Law by faith?

Paul firmly rejects this accusation, responding with an emphatic “Not at all!” (Galatians 3:8, and verses 4 and 6). Rather than abolishing the Law, faith upholds it.

@dak - You refuse to recognize that genuine faith upholds the Law (i.e two great commandments hang all the law...) which is the crucial element missing from your understanding.

We know the Law itself is holy, just, and good (Romans 7:12), but it was given to reveal the full extent of sin (Romans 7:13 (condemns)), making all humanity accountable before God (Romans 3:19-20). Christ came to fulfill the Law (Matthew 5:17) and to fulfill all righteousness (Matthew 3:15). Thus, the Law stands as a testimony to God’s perfect righteousness, something no one can achieve through their own effort. Only through justification by faith by the promises (Romans 1:17) can a person attain the righteousness of God.

Here is the issue: To the Jew, the idea that the Law of Moses was no longer the way to please God (if it ever truly was) was a significant challenge. Therefore, it was important to understand that faith does not eliminate the necessity of obedience.

So, while your focus is on Torah - you fail to show its goal and aims is the Messiah, who offers righteousness to everyone who trusts. If you can see that Torah was added to the Promises until Christ was revealed, then you would have the complete picture but as I see it you only have half of it.

 

[dak]

View attachment 68677
Just like the Scriptural evidence stands against you - your own changes by your hand condemn you.

Like I said - at some point you will be forced to change this back.

Romans 4:13 – “The promise to Abraham… did NOT come through the law but through the righteousness of faith.”

I think in time you will regret making that change - maybe you did it in haste without thinking - like I said the truth of it will eventuate - pride or no pride.

This is the third time with this false reasoning and false accusation. Either prove what you accuse or find a way to bow out without blaspheming yourself if that is what you are really worried about.

 

[dak]

All you need to do is remove the Mosaic Law from Sarah and put it back with Hagar

Romans 3:28 – “For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.”

I know you can do it dak!

Why are you derailing my thread with such lies and hatred?