Eschatological and Millennial Theories and their problems.

[Dave L]

Whereby God joins His creation.....after a Millennial training on how to behave before the Holy God.

Adding to Revelation?

 

[bbyrd009]

 

[Jay Ross]

“who gave himself for our sins to rescue us from this present evil age according to the will of our God and Father,” (Galatians 1:4)

“This power he exercised in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realmsfar above every rule and authority and power and dominion and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come.” (Ephesians 1:20–21)

No millennium possible in either age.

Dave, while I age with the translations in both of the scriptural examples that you have provided, that it is referring to an age, the age is also referring to ages within that age(s). The English here is rather clumsy. As such both expressed understandings are contained within the scriptures.

I am describing the last age,(which has the same duration as a Day of the Lord and is equivalent to 1k years in duration) of this present age, (which is equivalent to 7 days of the lord). This last age of this present age has been labelled, rightly or wrongly, the Millennium Age, which defines the age that we are talking about.

At present we are coming to the end of the sixth age within the next 20-30 years, which will then be followed by a seventh age, that has been labelled the Millennium Age which will last for the 1,000 years that Satan is imprisoned in the bottomless pit plus the little while period after he is released until he is captured by Christ and dispatched into the Lake of Fire.

What I have previously said is that during the existence of the kings of the nations that have formed a convenient coalition (after 2001) to invade and have dominion over the land of the Chaldeans during this present time, God will begin establishing His everlasting Kingdom here on the earth and that this Everlasting Kingdom will be based on the foundation stone that comes down out of heaven and grows into the highest mountain here on the earth. When God removes the dominions of the present principalities and also for a time interrupts their abilities to exercise any direct influence over the peoples of the earth, he fills that vacuum by giving to the Son of Man Dominion over all of the peoples of the Earth such that they should worship Him. This Kingdom will be reflected here on the earth both physically and spiritually as well as in Heaven where Christ will exercise His role as the New High Priest and intercede on behalf of the nations of this world with God.

Now this is were I have a very different take on the governance of this everlasting Kingdom during the next age, i.e. the Millennium Age, as I predominately see that this kingdom is a spiritual kingdom which mirrors a physical presence here on the earth through the people who call Jesus, Lord, and reflect the very nature of Christ during the labelled Millennium Age. Christ will exercise his influence over the people who respond to His calling of them to Himself. This exercised calling of Christ will in most senses, be a spiritual calling whether through dreams and visions or words of knowledge, with no physical presences of Christ normally required here on the earth.

Now your rigidity in your understanding, which in essences limits the ways God/Christ can operate, is where the difference in understanding has created a stand off so to speak between us. Your understanding expressed in two scriptures presented is true, and I am not denying that, but in my acceptance of the spiritual nature of God's Kingdom, it does not rule out the manner in which God's purposes will be played out here on the earth.

My understanding of how the End times will play out, pushes the Rapture to the time at the end of the Millennium Age or possibly to the start of the Age of Eternity. I have not yet nailed down when this will happen. Does Christ's return with all of the Heavenly Hosts herald the beginning of the Age of Eternity? I am not sure that the Bible gives a clear indication of this, just like Daniel 2 does not give a clear indication in the Statue prophecy, that the stone coming down out of heaven causes the immediate destruction of the Statue "nations" or whether or not the turning into chaff of the five segments of the statue take all of the Millennium Age to achieve where the wind finally removes all of the created chaff. It is a question that I do not know the answer too. There are many people who believe that this toppling of the statue is an immediate event upon the stone coming down out of heaven.

I also know that Satan will have his faithful servants working to oppose God's purposes during the Millennium Age.

So in my initial response to your posts I was not arguing against what you were posting, but rather I was providing a rather sketchy thumb nail sketch of what will happen as time marches towards the end of the overarching age of these present ages.

Shalom

 

[Dave L]

Dave, while I age with the translations in both of the scriptural examples that you have provided, that it is referring to an age, the age is also referring to ages within that age(s). The English here is rather clumsy. As such both expressed understandings are contained within the scriptures.

I am describing the last age,(which has the same duration as a Day of the Lord and is equivalent to 1k years in duration) of this present age, (which is equivalent to 7 days of the lord). This last age of this present age has been labelled, rightly or wrongly, the Millennium Age, which defines the age that we are talking about.

At present we are coming to the end of the sixth age within the next 20-30 years, which will then be followed by a seventh age, that has been labelled the Millennium Age which will last for the 1,000 years that Satan is imprisoned in the bottomless pit plus the little while period after he is released until he is captured by Christ and dispatched into the Lake of Fire.

What I have previously said is that during the existence of the kings of the nations that have formed a convenient coalition (after 2001) to invade and have dominion over the land of the Chaldeans during this present time, God will begin establishing His everlasting Kingdom here on the earth and that this Everlasting Kingdom will be based on the foundation stone that comes down out of heaven and grows into the highest mountain here on the earth. When God removes the dominions of the present principalities and also for a time interrupts their abilities to exercise any direct influence over the peoples of the earth, he fills that vacuum by giving to the Son of Man Dominion over all of the peoples of the Earth such that they should worship Him. This Kingdom will be reflected here on the earth both physically and spiritually as well as in Heaven where Christ will exercise His role as the New High Priest and intercede on behalf of the nations of this world with God.

Now this is were I have a very different take on the governance of this everlasting Kingdom during the next age, i.e. the Millennium Age, as I predominately see that this kingdom is a spiritual kingdom which mirrors a physical presence here on the earth through the people who call Jesus, Lord, and reflect the very nature of Christ during the labelled Millennium Age. Christ will exercise his influence over the people who respond to His calling of them to Himself. This exercised calling of Christ will in most senses, be a spiritual calling whether through dreams and visions or words of knowledge, with no physical presences of Christ normally required here on the earth.

Now your rigidity in your understanding, which in essences limits the ways God/Christ can operate, is where the difference in understanding has created a stand off so to speak between us. Your understanding expressed in two scriptures presented is true, and I am not denying that, but in my acceptance of the spiritual nature of God's Kingdom, it does not rule out the manner in which God's purposes will be played out here on the earth.

My understanding of how the End times will play out, pushes the Rapture to the time at the end of the Millennium Age or possibly to the start of the Age of Eternity. I have not yet nailed down when this will happen. Does Christ's return with all of the Heavenly Hosts herald the beginning of the Age of Eternity? I am not sure that the Bible gives a clear indication of this, just like Daniel 2 does not give a clear indication in the Statue prophecy, that the stone coming down out of heaven causes the immediate destruction of the Statue "nations" or whether or not the turning into chaff of the five segments of the statue take all of the Millennium Age to achieve where the wind finally removes all of the created chaff. It is a question that I do not know the answer too. There are many people who believe that this toppling of the statue is an immediate event upon the stone coming down out of heaven.

I also know that Satan will have his faithful servants working to oppose God's purposes during the Millennium Age.

So in my initial response to your posts I was not arguing against what you were posting, but rather I was providing a rather sketchy thumb nail sketch of what will happen as time marches towards the end of the overarching age of these present ages.

Shalom

You have only two ages in scripture. This present evil age of which Jesus says his kingdom is not part of. And the age to come which flesh and blood cannot enter. A physical millennium fits neither.

 

[Jay Ross]

So be it Dave. I wish I could agree with you, but I DO NOT hold to the RIGID UNDERSTANDING that you are presenting as the only way of understanding the End Times. There are Overarching Ages of the lesser ages that also span the same time period. One of those lesser ages has been labelled for better or worse the Millennium Age. This is not in conflict with your understanding of TWO overarching AGES, but the reality is that there is Three overarching AGES, with the last AGE being Eternity.

Shalom

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Kingdom of God is here on earth.
Kingdom of Heaven is above.
Jesus Kingdom is in Heaven and if we do the will of Jesus in Heaven then we will have a Kingdom of God here on earth, that means that we on earth are abiding in him, now one who is Born Again is at one with our Lords Salvation and Kingdom of God.

The Kingdom of God came when Jesus went up to Heaven, so a percentage of people are truly Gods people Israel servants of God, but Satan is master of this world, so this is the battle, but not all are of Satan's delusion and one day his power over the majority will fail as most will see Satan for who he truly is, just as Jesus said to him.
Satan had no grasp over him, Jesus was showing us that fact, but most people miss it and believe that Jesus has defeated the Devil, no he did not he just put him in his place and points him out for who he truly is just a titch witch, a piss ant. but because of original Sin we are deluded to it's power, the titch has no power over Jesus or God, so one day he will get seen for what it truly is and then the Kingdom of God will be truly manifested, because most will not be under the delusions of the titch, because they will be Born Again servants of God = Israel. and that's all it takes is for the majority to become Born Again and bingo Kingdom of God is before you all in it's power and glory.

As for Jacob Israel and the OT Saints, Jesus came for them before he when up.

The Bible points out about the Great Delusions that are sent to deceive the people like what we now have about so called Jews, what the hell are they going to do, they are totally lost and anyone who looks to them is of the Anti-Christ in fact and they are truly rejecting Jesus Christ out right, so they are lost be it they claim they are Christians or not, what fools !
What delusions are before them that they can not see that Jesus Christ is the beginning and the end, no one comes to God the Father but through his only begotten Son, what is it that people do not get with that and start to seek out the Jews to help them, the blind leading the blind ! Idiots rejecting Jesus for idiots who reject Jesus, ha ha just pathetic and so sad. morons like moths to the flames because such are under the power of Satan who creates Great Delusions.

 

[Naomi25]

The church (kingdom) is spiritual. Any physical kingdom is in error no matter the millennial or amillennial scheme you try to force it into.

Please don't see me as stand off-ish, I don't disagree with you about the Kingdom being spiritual, but I'm not sure you are understanding me. I'm trying to explain how we see the Kingdom as spiritual. The way...the only way, we see the Kingdom as physical, is through us, as physical beings. But in reality it is because we have new spiritual life in Christ that we enter the Kingdom. So...the Kingdom is spiritual and "not of this world", and we, through new birth, enter into the Kingdom by being one "in Christ". We say the Church is a physical 'manifestation' of the Kingdom because it is still a very real, practical truth that we are part of his spiritual Kingdom now. We cannot divorce the fact that the Church belongs to Christ, and that Christ right now sits on his heavenly throne. So, even though the Kingdom is of a spiritual nature, here on earth in our physical bodies, we still pay homage to the King. But that homage is to a King that is 'not of this world', his throne will not be on this earth and his Kingdom will not have a literal place in any Country. They are all spiritual. That usually makes those who see the bible as "literal" go crazy, but I have to ask...is not the spiritual plane more real than ours? If it is where God dwells, where Christ dwells, then how do we discount it? If it is where we know the spiritual battle of good and evil rages every day that we cannot see but know to be real as it spills over into our world all the time, why do we struggle with the idea that Christ rules in this place and that it extends beyond the bounds of the 'spiritual place' and into our own?

 

[Dave L]

So be it Dave. I wish I could agree with you, but I DO NOT hold to the RIGID UNDERSTANDING that you are presenting as the only way of understanding the End Times. There are Overarching Ages of the lesser ages that also span the same time period. One of those lesser ages has been labelled for better or worse the Millennium Age. This is not in conflict with your understanding of TWO overarching AGES, but the reality is that there is Three overarching AGES, with the last AGE being Eternity.

Shalom

If you define the Kingdom according to Jesus in the gospels, and make Revelation 20 conform to this, you will not add to the book. But if you read Jewish Physical Kingdom ideas into Revelation 20, you ruin the message and add to John's words.