Eternal Torment?

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josiahdefender

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kai o kapnoV tou basanismou autwn anabainei eiV aiwnaV aiwnwn kai ouk ecousin anapausin hmeraV kai nuktoV oi proskunounteV to qhrion kai thn eikona autou kai ei tiV lambanei to caragma tou onomatoV autou The text from Rev 14:11 forever and ever is a phrase meaning endlessness. The greek Aionios, Aionan fem,nom sing...This is the danger of a little greek. One can take it like some of you have done and pick out a particular definition and fasten it towhatever your trying to prove. Aionios is everlasting, eternal. Aion or eons as it is given in english in some contexts respects a given age, but not necessarily. the Mythic gods of the greeks were aeons spirits which live on and on. Check your good greek translations they all say...eternal or everlasting =endlessness. Its one thing to be mistaken, its another to eisogete the passages. What is the problem with an eternal punishment? Well, no doubt its becauseyou have other doctrines that hinge upon the REv text that hold no wieght unless the text denotes a temporalness to the fire and punishment in the Lake of Fire. It is obvious when some abherent doctrine has gotten hold of an individual when the common english translation must be re-translated into amore "accurate" rendering to suit the doctrinal read-in that individual is hoping to pass off as legitimate. The endlessness of our 'eternal life' is so understood among believers that to debate it is childish. But Aionios is also representative of a quality as well. Therefore the life a believer has called "eternal" life is a quality of God-life gifted to the saint through faith. When an individual receives an eternal life or an eternal death...Aionios thanatos he is being given a 'kind of eternality' that is outside of the human/flesh blood temporalness. If you want to depict seasons or times or temporalness you go the direction of Kronos...Time. This word is in reference to the temporalness of things within the creation of God. If the greek used the word Kronos or a form of it, your case for temporalness would be well made. But its notand the case for Aionios meaning a temporal age is wrong and its not translated in those texts to mean a 'period' of time. JosiahdefenderThe text of Rev 14:11 is one that is full of metaphor and analogy. 10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his nameBeast...metaphormark of his name...metaphorimage..metaphorrest day and night metaphorsmoke of their torment..metaphor. But what you come away with is a picture. That is what the apostles is presenting to us. A picture of a place where the condition of its occupants was so horrific all that was allowable to see was the 'smoke' of their torment. But we are given an insight into 'why they were there'. Because they worshipped the beast and his image and or received the mark of his name. Since there is no sun shining on the lake of fire and no moon, the term for "night and day" is simply representative of daily continual unrest, torment. Tormented by what? Fire and brimstone again probably a metaphor, but as strong a one as can be given to denote extreme discomfort, burning. But the amazing part is "in the presence of the Lamb and the Angels of God". Irregardless of just how this will play out, Christ and his Angels are able to behold such wrath and judgment poured out upon the wicked. There is nothing in the context or the grammar that "cuts you loose" from the infinite duration and horror of such wrath. Josiahdefender
 

Polar

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Excellent post."Its one thing to be mistaken, its another to eisogete the passages. What is the problem with an eternal punishment? Well, no doubt its becauseyou have other doctrines that hinge upon the REv text that hold no wieght unless the text denotes a temporalness to the fire and punishment in the Lake of Fire. It is obvious when some abherent doctrine has gotten hold of an individual when the common english translation must be re-translated into amore "accurate" rendering to suit the doctrinal read-in that individual is hoping to pass off as legitimate."-- There it is.
 

HammerStone

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Or not.Everlasting means everlasting, but lasting forever clearly can mean that the punishment lasts forever in the sense that it will never be revoked, once you're gone, you're gone. It's the obviously overlooked answer.
Matthew 10:28And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Tormented by what? Fire and brimstone again probably a metaphor, but as strong a one as can be given to denote extreme discomfort, burning.But the amazing part is "in the presence of the Lamb and the Angels of God". Irregardless of just how this will play out, Christ and his Angels are able to behold such wrath and judgment poured out upon the wicked.
Amazing what one would see if one would only read.
Hebrews 12:29For our God is a consuming fire.
This isn't the only location where this is said. The Lord is a consuming fire, which is never quenched.
Mark 9:45And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
 

Polar

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Just to be sure I get where you are coming from...The terrible punishment for those who die in sin....will be to completely burn up and have no trace left?Ummm, I don't think so...Matthew 13:41-42"The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."-- You would have us believe that the "wailing and gnashing of teeth" only lasts for as long as it takes to burn up?Again, I don't think so. Rev. 14:11"And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name."-- How can they "have no rest day or night" if they are simply going to burn up?Or is this where someone tries to say that the 'no rest day or night' is only for the sinners who took the mark of the beast and everyone else is burned up until there is nothing left.
 

Jordan

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With all due respect, Denver is speaking on a timeline of Judgment Day. You, Polar, quoting Revelation 14:11 is speaking on a timeline of the Millennium Reign.You and Denver is speaking on a completely different timeline and different wave. And on another note, Polar... Matthew 13:41-42 is on a timeline that Denver is speaking of, which is Judgment Day and Revelation 14:11 is speaking on a timeline of the Millennium Reign.
 

TallMan

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The terrible punishment for those who die in sin....will be to completely burn up and have no trace left?Ummm, I don't think so...
Of course it's not what you or any man thinks that carries any authority.Why don't you think so?
-- You would have us believe that the "wailing and gnashing of teeth" only lasts for as long as it takes to burn up?Again, I don't think so.
Again, why not?
 

HammerStone

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Okay, well, let's go a little deeper.
II Peter 3:7But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
II Peter 3:10-12But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
Again, we have fire. The elements are the rudiments or fundamental properties. As I have illustrated through Scripture, God is a consuming fire and judgment is by fire. Those that make it, will have their sins burnt off and continue through, those that don't will burn. Now if you want to assert that an ambiguous phrase like "weeping and gnashing of teeth" means forever, there's a preconceived notion that I'm afraid I won't be able to dispel.
Hebrews 4:1-3Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left [us] of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard [it]. For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
The rest is Christ, of which they will not have. The weeping and gnashing will be because they missed the boat. The smoke ascending forever is a Hebraism; the only thing left will be that wisp of smoke as it travels throughout this cosmos that God created.Remember, all of this is about God and all of this happens as a result of his will as the unquenchable fire, it's not about those being burnt up.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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Does anyone have any clear view of whether the majority of souls will be tormented for ever?



Soul is the traditional Hebrew word neʹphesh and the Greek word psy·kheʹ. In examining the way these terms are used in the Bible, it becomes evident that they basically refer to (1) people, (2) animals, or (3) the life that a person or an animal has. (Ge 1:20; 2:7; Nu 31:28; 1Pe 3:20) In contrast to the way that the term “soul” is used in many religious contexts, the Bible shows that both neʹphesh and psy·kheʹ, in connection with earthly creatures, refer to that which is material, tangible, visible, and mortal. In the NWT these original-language words have most often been rendered according to their meaning in each context, using such terms as “life,” “creature,” “person,” “one’s whole being,” or simply as a personal pronoun (for example, “I” for “my soul”). In most cases, footnotes give the alternative rendering “soul.” When the term “soul” is used, either in the main text or in footnotes, it should be understood in line with the above explanation. When referring to doing something with one’s whole soul, it means to do it with one’s whole being, wholeheartedly, or with one’s whole life. (De 6:5; Mt 22:37) In some contexts, these original-language words can be used to refer to the desire or appetite of a living creature. They can also refer to a dead person or a dead body.—Nu 6:6; Pr 23:2;Isa 56:11; Hag 2:13.

The word “soul” appears over 850 times in the Bible, including more than 100 times in its Greek form. It basically refers to mortal, living creatures, either human or animal. (1 Corinthians 15:45;James 5:20; Revelation 16:3) The apologists, however, twisted this Bible teaching by linking it with Plato’s philosophy that the soul is separate from the body, invisible and immortal. Minucius Felix even asserted that belief in the resurrection had its early beginnings in Pythagoras’ teaching of the transmigration of the soul. How far Greek influence had led them from the teachings of the Bible.

Origen was a pupil of Clement of Alexandria, who borrowed the idea of an immortal soul from Greek tradition. Being strongly influenced by Plato’s ideas about the soul, Origen “built into Christian doctrine the whole cosmic drama of the soul, which he took from Plato,” observes theologian Werner Jaeger.
 
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brakelite

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2849 ‭κολάζω‭ kolazo ‭kol–ad’–zo

‭‭from kolos (dwarf); v; TDNT–3:814,451; ‭ ‭{See TDNT 397}

‭‭AV–punish 2; 2‭

‭‭1) to lop or prune, as trees and wings‭
‭‭2) to curb, check, restrain‭
‭‭3) to chastise, correct, punishment‭
‭‭4) to cause to be punished

The above is the root to the word used in Matthew25:46, punishment. Please note that nowhere in the Greek, or the English word or grammar, indicate continuing action. The word previous, everlasting, simply denotes permanency. The word is punishment, not punishing. Thus it is the punishment, the second death, that is forever, therefore no hope of a resurrection. It is not in any sense a continuing punishing of which the person , having been punished, is aware of his predicament. The dude is dead. And if he is weeping and wailing still, then he ain't dead...yet.
 
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BARNEY BRIGHT

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Immortality of the soul: the common belief vs. the Bible
The truth that the dead are now sleeping and will be made alive in the resurrection is unfortunately not what most Christians believe and which can be summarized as follows:

“A person is composed by body and soul. The body is the physical flesh-and-blood "shell” that works as a house for the soul. The soul is the nonmaterial part, the mind the feelings etc. At death the soul leaves the body, and continues to live consciously forever in heaven or hell.”

In the article “body, soul and spirit” we have dealt with the soul and what exactly it is. Perhaps there is no better summary to the meaning of the respective Hebrew word (“nephesh”), translated as “soul” in the English Bible, than the one given by Vine in his dictionary:

“Nephesh: “the essence of life, the act of breathing, taking breath ... The problem with the English term 'soul' is that no actual equivalent of the term or the idea behind it is represented in the Hebrew language. The Hebrew system of thought does not include the combination or opposition of the 'body' and 'soul' which are really Greek and Latin in origin" (Vine’s Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words, 1985, p. 237-238, emphasis added).

“Nephesh” (or “Psuchi” in the Greek New Testament), soul, is, according to the Word of God simply the breath, the life. Genesis 2:7 demonstrates this truth very clearly:

Genesis 2:7
“And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul [“nephesh” in Hebrew]. ”

See that the Word does not speak about soul as something separate from the body. “Man became a living soul”. Everyone of us that breaths today is a living soul. When we will have breathed our last, we will no longer be living souls. We would be sleeping, having no consciousness, exactly as during deep sleep people have no consciousness.

If we adopt the definition the Word of God gives to soul and not the one of the “Greek and Latin in origin”, as Vine calls it, we will not then have a problem when we realize that the animals also have soul:

Genesis 1:20-21
"And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature [nephesh, soul] that has life [nephesh, soul] and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. And God created great whales, and every living creature [“nephesh”, soul, so also in the MKJV and others] that moves, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good"

and Genesis 1:29-30
"And God said "Behold I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yield seed; to you it shall be for food. And to every beast of the earth, and to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps upon the earth , wherein there is a living soul[nephesh in Hebrew] I have given every green herb for meat:" and it was so."

There is obviously nothing metaphysic in soul. Whatever breathes, man or animal, is a living soul. Where then does the belief of the so called “immortal soul” come from? This is something we will deal with next.

Immortality of the soul: a platonic belief
Concerning the origins of the idea of the immortality of the soul, Vine already gave us some hinds above: this belief comes from Greek philosophy, expounded especially by two of the chief Greek Philosophers: Plato and Socrates. Plato, though not the first to assert the doctrine of the immortal soul, he was definitely the most eloquent one. As Werner Jaeger of Harvard University says:

“The immortality of man was one of the foundational creeds of the philosophical religion of Platonism that was in part adopted by the Christian church” (Werner Jaeger, “The Greek ideas of immortality”, Harvard Theological Review, Volume LII, July 1959, Number 3, emphasis added ).

As The Catholic Encyclopedia (Topic: the platonic school) also informs us:

“The great majority of the Christian philosophers down to St. Augustine were Platonists.”

What did then Plato believe about the soul? Plato was a disciple of another great Greek philosopher, Socrates. Plato’s work “Phaedo” is a dialogue which depicts the death of Socrates. The dialogue supposedly took place on the last day of Socrates, before being executed by drinking hemlock. As Wikipedia says: “one of the main themes in the Phaedo is the idea that the soul is immortal”. We could consider “Phaedo” a work that gives the combined beliefs of Plato and Socrates, the two greatest Greek philosophers on the matter. Here are some passages from this work (Taken from the following website:http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/phaedo.html):

“The soul is in the very likeness of the divine, and immortal, and intelligible, and uniform, and indissoluble, and unchangeable …. It goes away to the pure, and eternal, and immortal, and unchangeable, to which she is kin." (Phaedo)

And again:

“The soul whose inseparable attitude is life will never admit of life's opposite, death. Thus the soul is shown to be immortal, and since immortal, indestructible ... Do we believe there is such a thing as death? To be sure. And is this anything but the separation of the soul and body? And being dead is the attainment of this separation, when the soul exists in herself and separate from the body, and the body is parted from the soul. That is death.... Death is merely the separation of the soul and body." (emphasis added)

Furthermore:

“Be of good cheer, and do not lament my passing … When you lay me down in my grave, say that you are burying my body only, and not my soul”

Does what Plato and Socrates say sound very familiar? Indeed it does. It could very well be a summary of what the average Christian also believes!

As the church historian Philip Schaff says:

“Plato gives prominence also to the doctrine of a future state of rewards and punishments. At death, by an inevitable law of its own being, as well as by the appointment of God, every soul goes to its own place; the evil gravitating to the evil, and the good rising to the supreme good.” (The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge, article: Platonism and Christianity).

All the above, sound indeed like written by a contemporary Christian preacher. In fact, compare what we read from Phaedo with what the most celebrated preacher of contemporary Christianity says about our topic:

“….you are an immortal soul. Your soul is eternal and will live forever. In other words, the real you -- the part of you that thinks, feels, dreams, aspires; the ego, the personality -- will never die. … your soul will live forever in one of two places -- heaven or hell …. whether we are saved or lost, there is conscious and everlasting existence of the soul and personality.” (Billy Graham, Peace With God, chapter 6, paragraphs 25 and 28).

Now compare this with what God and His archenemy, the devil, said in Genesis 2 and 3:

Genesis 2:16-17, 3:4
“And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, "You may surely eat of every tree of the garden, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die ….. “But the serpent said to the woman, "You will NOT surely die.””

The first that taught that man is – though fallen - supposedly immortal was the devil in the garden of Eden. Compare his “you shall not surely die” with the doctrine of the immortality of the soul. “Your soul is immortal and will live forever”, Billy Graham said. As much as I respect him, the same also Plato, Socrates and the devil said. According to them: there is no real death. “You will not surely die”, “You soul just leaves the body and lives eternally in heaven or in hell, depending on what it has done”. This is not a Christian belief brothers; it is a heathen belief, taught first by the father of lies in the Garden of Eden.
 

Enoch111

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The truth that the dead are now sleeping and will be made alive in the resurrection
The dead are NOT sleeping. Their bodies appear to be sleeping but their souls and spirits are wide awake and very much alive. Why don't you believe what Christ said about departed souls and spirits?

BTW we see comments about the *immortality* of the soul all the time. But mortality and immortality apply to the body, not to the immaterial soul and spirit. Souls and spirits are IMPERISHABLE.
 
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Nancy

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QUOTE (bethog @ Apr 2 2009, 07:38 PM)
There must be something wrong with how you read the Word. Read this slowly and then you will get it.“the smoke of their torment” This is what the Scripture says. the smoke of their tormentthe smoke of their tormentthe smoke of their tormentNow read slowly what you said. “their smoke is tormented”their smoke is tormentedtheir smoke is tormentedtheir smoke is tormentedNow read the Bible once again:Revelation 14:9-11 (New King James Version)9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”Now if someone is going to be tormented and burn for ever, it can not be their bodies as that will burn out quickly. So then it will be their souls and spirits that will be tormented forever. Now if anyone doubt the Scripture concerning this, all they have to do is making sure they will not go to heaven and then they can go check it out for themselves, but for me, I chose to believe the Word of God and make sure that I do not go to hell to see who was right and who was wrong.
Let me get this straight, So, it's the smoke of their torment?
laugh.gif

"Let me get this straight, So, it's the smoke of their torment?" LOL :confused:
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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The dead are NOT sleeping. Their bodies appear to be sleeping but their souls and spirits are wide awake and very much alive. Why don't you believe what Christ said about departed souls and spirits?

BTW we see comments about the *immortality* of the soul all the time. But mortality and immortality apply to the body, not to the immaterial soul and spirit. Souls and spirits are IMPERISHABLE.

There is nowhere written in the scriptures that says we have an immortal soul. The scriptures say we are souls but doesn't say we have souls.
 

Enoch111

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There is nowhere written in the scriptures that says we have an immortal soul. The scriptures say we are souls but doesn't say we have souls.
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Thess 5:23)

Human beings consist of a spirit, a soul, and a body. That is what the Bible says and it is very clear.

So why did you ignore this Scripture? And are you now prepared to concede that you have a false belief about souls and that you will believe what is stated above?
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Thess 5:23)

Human beings consist of a spirit, a soul, and a body. That is what the Bible says and it is very clear.

So why did you ignore this Scripture? And are you now prepared to concede that you have a false belief about souls and that you will believe what is stated above?




Spirit
Definition: The Hebrew word ruʹach and the Greek pneuʹma, which are often translated “spirit,” have a number of meanings. All of them refer to that which is invisible to human sight and which gives evidence of force in motion. The Hebrew and Greek words are used with reference to (1) wind, (2) the active life-force in earthly creatures, (3) the impelling force that issues from a person’s figurative heart and that causes him to say and do things in a certain way, (4) inspired utterances originating with an invisible source, (5) spirit persons, and (6) God’s
active force, or holy spirit.

Is there a part of a man that separates at death of the body?

Ezek. 18:4: “The soul that is sinning—it itself will die.” (RS, NE, KJ, and Dy all render the Hebrew word neʹphesh in this verse as “soul,” thus saying that it is the soul that dies. Some translations that render neʹphesh as “soul” in other passages use the expression “the man” or “the one” in this verse. So, the neʹphesh, the soul, is the person
not an immaterial part of him that survives when his body dies.)

Ps. 146:4: “His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; in that day his thoughts do perish.” (The Hebrew word here translated “spirit” is a derivative of ruʹach. Some translators render it “breath.” When that ruʹach, or active life-force, leaves the body, the person’s thoughts perish; they do not continue in another realm.)

Eccl. 3:19-21: “There is an eventuality as respects the sons of mankind and an eventuality as respects the beast, and they have the same eventuality. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit, so that there is no superiority of the man over the beast, for everything is vanity. All are going to one place. They have all
come to be from the dust, and they are all returning to the dust. Who is there knowing the spirit of the sons of mankind, whether it is ascending upward; and the spirit of the beast, whether it is descending downward to the earth?” (Because of the inheritance of sin and death from Adam, humans all die and return to the dust, as animals do. But does each human have a spirit that goes on living as an intelligent personality after it ceases to function in the body? No; verse 19 answers that humans and beasts “all have but one spirit.” Based merely on human observation, no one can authoritatively answer the question raised in verse 21regarding the spirit. But God’s Word answers that there is nothing that humans have as a result of birth that gives them superiority over beasts when they die. However, because of God’s merciful provision through Christ, the prospect of living forever has been opened up to humans who exercise faith, but not to animals. For many of, mankind that will be made possible by resurrection, when active life-force from God will invigorate them again.)


Speaking about man’s, death Ecclesiastes 12:7 states: “The dust [of his body] returns to the earth, just as it was, and the spirit returns to the true God who gave it.” When the spirit, or life-force, leaves the body, the body dies and returns to where it came from—the earth. Comparably, the life-force returns to where it came from—God. (Job 34:14, 15; Psalm 36:9) This does not mean that the life-force actually travels to heaven. Rather, it means that for someoneo who dies, any hope of future life rests with Jehovah God. His life is in God’s hands, so to speak. Only by God’s power can the spirit, or life-force, be given back so that a person may live again.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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The Soul and Spirit Are Distinct. The “spirit” (Heb., ruʹach; Gr., pneuʹma) should not be confused with the “soul” (Heb., neʹphesh; Gr., psy·kheʹ), for they refer to different things. Thus, Hebrews 4:12 speaks of the Word of God as ‘piercing even to the dividing of soul and spirit, and of joints and their marrow.’ (Compare also Php 1:27; 1Th 5:23.) As has been shown, the soul (neʹphesh; psy·kheʹ) is the creature itself. The spirit (ruʹach; pneuʹma) generally refers to the life-force of the living creature or soul, though the original-language terms may also have other meanings.

Illustrating further the distinction between the Greek psy·kheʹ and pneuʹma is the apostle Paul’s discussion, in his first letter to the Corinthians, of the resurrection of Christians to spirit life. Here he contrasts “that which is physical [psy·khi·konʹ, literally, soulical]” with “that which is spiritual [pneu·ma·ti·konʹ].” Thus, he shows that Christians until the time of their death have a “soulical” body, even as did the first man Adam; whereas, in their resurrection such anointed Christians receive a spiritual body like that of the glorified Jesus Christ. (1Co 15:42-49)


THE new congregation in Thessalonica has experienced opposition ever since it was formed when the apostle Paul visited there. So when Timothy—perhaps in his 20’s—returns from there with a good report, Paul is moved to write the Thessalonians a letter to commend and encourage them. Likely composed late in 50 C.E., that letter is the first of Paul’s inspired writings. Shortly thereafter, he writes the Christians in Thessalonica a second letter. This time, he corrects an erroneous viewpoint held by some and exhorts the brothers to stand firm in the faith.

About ten years later, Paul is in Macedonia and Timothy is in Ephesus. Paul writes to Timothy, encouraging him to stay in Ephesus and carry on spiritual warfare against false teachers inside the congregation. When a wave of persecution is unleashed upon Christians in the wake of a fire that ravages Rome in 64 C.E., Paul writes his second letter to Timothy. It is the last of his inspired writings. We today can benefit from the encouragement and counsel given in these four letters of Paul.—Heb. 4:12.

“STAY AWAKE”

(1 Thess. 1:1–5:28)

Paul commends the Thessalonians for ‘their faithful work, their loving labor, and their endurance.’ He tells them that they are his ‘hope and joy and crown of exultation.’—1 Thess. 1:3; 2:19.

After encouraging the Christians in Thessalonica to comfort one another with the resurrection hope, Paul states: “Jehovah’s day is coming exactly as a thief in the night.” He counsels them to “stay awake” and keep their senses.—1 Thess. 4:16-18; 5:2, 6.



Look how you have taken scripture out of context to prove your belief. Here at Thessalonians Paul was praying for the whole congratulationn. He was not talking about a human having immortality or an immortal Soul.

5:23—What did Paul mean when he prayed that “the spirit and soul and body of [the] brothers be preserved”? Paul was referring to the spirit, soul, and body of the composite Christian congregation, which included spirit-anointed Christians in Thessalonica. Instead of simply praying that the congregation be preserved, he prayed for the preservation of its “spirit,” or mental disposition. He also prayed for its “soul,” its life, or existence, and for its “body”—the composite body of anointed Christians. (1 Cor. 12:12, 13) The prayer thus highlights Paul’s intense concern for the congregation.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Thess 5:23)ô


Human beings consist of a spirit, a soul, and a body. That is what the Bible says and it is very clear.

So why did you ignore this Scripture? And are you now prepared to concede that you have a false belief about souls and that you will believe what is stated above?

No I don't concede because you took a scripture out of context to try to prove you belief. This scripture is showing Paul was praying for the whole composite congregation. He was asking that God to preserve it's spirit, meaning it's mental disposition. Paul prayed for it's soul meaning it's life or existence and was praying for it's body which was a composite of anointed Christians. So if you are trying to make out like this scripture is talking about someone's immortal Soul, think again.