Explain how God can exist

[Wormwood]

Doug,

I think you are correct. The fact is that the Western secularist generally borrows much of their moral code from Judeo-Christian background. Nietzsche was rightly trying to develop a philosophy that completely threw off such (in his mind) limitations. In fact, regimes that have truly embraced the philosophy of secularism have been shown to be the bloodiest in history. Just look at people like Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, etc. These regimes focus on the "greater good" of the regime as the ultimate end of all decision-making and therefore see it as completely justified to massacre entire ethnic groups or opposing factions in order to solidify their own power and agenda. Its why such regimes are often run by a dictator because a unified moral code, or the "greater good" cant be up for negotiation for the system to work.

While Christians may disagree on various moral issues, there is a clear underlying foundation that is not based on mere personal opinion or debatable doctrines. Clearly this was the case in the development of the legal and moral system of America and other countries. It wasn't one person's ideas but a group of people working together with a foundational understanding of divine revelation and practical wisdom for governance. Yet, as people become more and more indoctrinated with the religion of secularism, we will see a continuing distancing from such underlying values and a questioning of everything from the lengths we can go to please ourselves sexually and display such behaviors publicly to who is really valuable and whose life is worth preserving for the greater good. I think its only a matter of time until we start hearing of "after birth abortions" and pornographic displays of all kinds are publicly displayed on commercials and national sitcoms. Moral relativism is on the rise because the foundations are all being questioned and stripped away. Its easier to tear things down and mock values than it is to hold fast to any today.

People think they can play games with God and rationalize themselves into embracing whatever they want to do. Yet, God is not mocked. People will ultimately reap what they sow. Scripture promises us that.

 

[Phoneman777]

I've heard countless stories of former atheists who could not understand how a God could exist that would eternally torment those He supposedly loved and died for, but after being shown the doctrine of Annihilation from the Bible they finally gave up their rebellion to Him.

 

[aspen]

Seems obvious to me. The existence of the human capacity for empathy and love proves the existence of God. Evolution only demands human cooperation, not empathy or love

 

[ChristianJuggarnaut]

It's rather obvious from the responses here that philosophical constructs such as modal logic (ontological argument) are much too nuanced for those individuals who are classically trained in the mind-numbing drivel referred to as the "hard sciences. Philosophy is something one needs to study in order to "wrap ones head around it."

That's why someone can make the rather juvenile statement that philosophical arguments for the existence of God rely on "special pleading" and are only useful to Christians. I expect such idiocy from Lawrence Krauss but on a real forum with supposedly honest people????

 

[Phoneman777]

It's rather obvious from the responses here that philosophical constructs such as modal logic (ontological argument) are much too nuanced for those individuals who are classically trained in the mind-numbing drivel referred to as the "hard sciences. Philosophy is something one needs to study in order to "wrap ones head around it."

That's why someone can make the rather juvenile statement that philosophical arguments for the existence of God rely on "special pleading" and are only useful to Christians. I expect such idiocy from Lawrence Krauss but on a real forum with supposedly honest people????

In the search for proof of God, philosophy cannot help us, nor can the sciences, though the continuing explosion of discovery in information, design, and order found in living organisms and the universe in general is compelling enough to convince the most stubborn skeptic if he is willing to be honest with himself.

No, the hard evidence is found in Scripture - namely, prophecy. There is no earthly explanation for how Ezekiel knew that Alexander the Great would throw the rubble of the destroyed mainland city of Tyre, left behind by Nebuchadnezzer so many centuries earlier, into the ocean in order to built a Causeway to the island city of Tyre to which the inhabitants fled from Nebuchadnezzer. There's no way Isaiah could have known the very name of the Medo-Persian conqueror, Cyrus, and the method by which he would defeat Babylon almost 200 years before the fact. No way Daniel could have known in the days of Babylon that Medo-Persian, Greece, Rome, and the divisions of Rome that are with us today, would arise and become great Empire nations.

Seeing that there is virtually a complete absence of true prophetic prediction and fulfillment in every other system of religion in the world while it abundantly overflows in the Scriptures testifies to the fact that not only does God exist, but He has not authored these other systems of faith and they are powerless to reveal Him as the one true Savior of the world. It's why we've got to go tell them about Jesus.

 

[Dan57]

Ask an atheist how they exist? Ask them how anything exist? I'm content to accept God as the uncaused cause of everything that exist until scientific fact can prove otherwise. That explanation won't satisfy an atheist, they'll still insist that God explain himself, but I suspect that God intentionally didn't give us the intellectual capacity to grasp all that He is.

 

[ChristianJuggarnaut]

Phone man,

You'll get no argument from me on your premise. However, Almighty God can and does line up with philosophical logic. How could He not? I see no error in "becoming all things to all people in order to save them" so when a person says "show me evidence outside of scripture" I can. When that evidence is presented and cannot be refuted I certainly would take them to scripture next.

People need hear the word and respond to the word, there is no argument there. I just feel it unwise to dismiss as useless philosophical arguments.

 

[Phoneman777]

Phone man,

You'll get no argument from me on your premise. However, Almighty God can and does line up with philosophical logic. How could He not? I see no error in "becoming all things to all people in order to save them" so when a person says "show me evidence outside of scripture" I can. When that evidence is presented and cannot be refuted I certainly would take them to scripture next.

People need hear the word and respond to the word, there is no argument there. I just feel it unwise to dismiss as useless philosophical arguments.

To be honest, I've never had much respect for philosophy when I was younger and I think that was due to a Philosophy 101 professor who essentially summed up the semester agenda in these words: "We're going to find out just who the **** we are and what we're doing here." I remember naively thinking, "Doesn't he know that God created us to love Him and each other?"

Of course, I'm open to anything that can tip the scales in God's favor.

What are some of your philosophical arguments that you believe prove God?

 

[Doug_E_Fresh]

@ phoneman

Philosophy and Theology go hand in hand. It would be wise to study it.
Additionally, in apologetics, there are three different categories: Classical, Presuppositional, and Evidential.

It would behoove you to research them, but i'll give you a brief synopsis:

Classical: Appeals to prove the existence of God first, without prior knowledge of God, before attempting to use other means.
Presuppositional: Appeals to the idea that to argue at all you must already presuppose that there IS a God which is its foundation for all other arguments.
Evidential: Appeals to the proof that is seen, but unexplainable, i.e. prophecy, healings, etc.. in order to prove His existence.

Each view has it's good points, personally I think it is most beneficial to use a classical view. Apologetics will also help you to come to a more intimate knowledge of your faith.

 

[platypusninja314]

To answer the first questions, there are several reasons I would reply with, but I want to highlight one of the more interesting ones. This video has a very interesting point.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hOKA9fR2p4
His Bond Servant,
Ryker Lutjens

 

[newbirth]

There was a similar topic started a while back "Questions for an atheist." I don't think the question it's self was properly posed. So, what I propose is this:

How can you prove, with credibility and evidence, that God does in fact exist? Now, I would like to ask, that if possible, when using scripture in an argument, please find a way to connect it to tangible evidence if possible. I also understand at some point it is what you would choose to believe.

Now, as believers and followers of Christ we have faith and have seen evidence in our own lives. But remember, you are, at this point, trying to convince someone, atheist or otherwise that there is a God. How are you going to do it?

BA Out!

I would ask them what is it they believe is sustaining their life??? and whatever it is they should have it removed ...and replaced at a later date.... they would die and when whatever it is that was taken is replaced they should live again....


2 Timothy 1:8-10King James Version (KJV)
8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

 

[OzSpen]

I would ask them what is it they believe is sustaining their life??? and whatever it is they should have it removed ...and replaced at a later date.... they would die and when whatever it is that was taken is replaced they should live again....
2 Timothy 1:8-10King James Version (KJV)
8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

Have you considered using The Kalam Cosmological Argument (Philosophy of Religion) for the existence of God? It has the following logical structure:

(1) Everything that has a beginning of its existence has a cause of its existence.
(2) The universe has a beginning of its existence.
Therefore:
(3) The universe has a cause of its existence.
(4) If the universe has a cause of its existence then that cause is God.
Therefore:
(5) God exists.

This argument also discusses how the universe cannot be infinite. See 'Maths and the finitude of the past'.

 

[BlackManINC]

There was a similar topic started a while back "Questions for an atheist." I don't think the question it's self was properly posed. So, what I propose is this:

How can you prove, with credibility and evidence, that God does in fact exist? Now, I would like to ask, that if possible, when using scripture in an argument, please find a way to connect it to tangible evidence if possible. I also understand at some point it is what you would choose to believe.

Now, as believers and followers of Christ we have faith and have seen evidence in our own lives. But remember, you are, at this point, trying to convince someone, atheist or otherwise that there is a God. How are you going to do it?

BA Out!

When an atheist is asking you for "evidence" of God, they do not care about your personal testimony, or archaeological evidence, or any other kind of historical evidence. No amount of evidence of this type will convince an atheist that God is real. Atheists have materialistic carnal minds, if they see it, then it is real. So what an atheist is really looking for is for God to write his name in the sky, or for a burning bush event, or the parting of the red sea. This is the kind of evidence they are truly looking for. And really, God can reveal themselves to them in some physical form and they will still reject God, which is what happens in the end of days in Revelation by the way. After the thousand year reign of Gods kingdom, the rest of the dead from all ages are risen and Satan is let loose from the pit. Even with God sitting right in front of their faces, with his light shining as bright as the sun itself, Satan STILL somehow managed to deceive the nations into uniting in an attempt to overtake the city of God. So we can see with this event, that that you are by and large wasting your time with most unbelievers in general, you are casting pearls before swine. God can reveal himself to them in all his glory and they will still reject him none the less. Why? Its simple, because their mind, their logic is telling them that God exists, but in their heart, they really don't want God. The heart rules the mind, not vice versa.

 

[aspen]

The atheists I have talked with are looking for the traits they believe are apart of people who believe in God; narrow mindedness, illogical ideas, absolute language, anti science ideas and circular reasoning.

They are looking for Kirk Cameron and his banana argument http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2z-OLG0KyR4

If you speak from your heart about what God means to you and start a relationship instead of an argument, you may get somewhere

 

[aspen]

In fact, most atheists I have run into will start talking about Christians that fit their stereotype and ask you what is wrong with them........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJQjpG-lGY4

 

[newbirth]

Have you considered using The Kalam Cosmological Argument (Philosophy of Religion) for the existence of God? It has the following logical structure:

(1) Everything that has a beginning of its existence has a cause of its existence.
(2) The universe has a beginning of its existence.
Therefore:
(3) The universe has a cause of its existence.
(4) If the universe has a cause of its existence then that cause is God.
Therefore:
(5) God exists.

This argument also discusses how the universe cannot be infinite. See 'Maths and the finitude of the past'.

that argument starts with a preconceived conclusion.....(1) followed by another(2) and another (3) then speculation(4) all this tells me what I already believe...(5)...not convince anyone of anything...

 

[OzSpen]

that argument starts with a preconceived conclusion.....(1) followed by another(2) and another (3) then speculation(4) all this tells me what I already believe...(5)...not convince anyone of anything...

So do you know of anything that had a beginning that was not caused by something or someone else?

Did the universe have a beginning or not?

 

[newbirth]

So do you know of anything that had a beginning that was not caused by something or someone else?

Did the universe have a beginning or not?

Hebrews 7:2-4King James Version (KJV)
2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.

 

[Born_Again]

Personally, I love the banana argument! That kinda made my day. Haha.

Thanks, Aspen.

 

[OzSpen]

Hebrews 7:2-4King James Version (KJV)
2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.

That's avoidance. You did not answer my questions.