Expose on Mormonism.

[Enoch111]

Okay, I understand, but this thread is an expose of Mormonism. So, why would anyone object to exposing unbiblical Mormon doctrine in this thread?

Because a lot of people have difficulty is separating the TEACHINGS of a particular group from the ADHERENTS of the group. The same applies to Catholics and Catholicism, or Jews and Judaism. These are all fine people being led astray by their religious leaders and books.

Mormons are generally good, moral, upstanding citizens, and one has to admire many things about them, especially their missionary zeal. However, a close examination of Mormon teachings in the light of Bible truth make it clear that they may be very sincere, but are also SINCERELY WRONG.

For example, their beliefs about the deity of Christ and the Holy Trinity are not the same as those of conservative Christians. Got Questions sums up their teachings below:

Question: "Do Mormons believe in the Trinity?"

Answer: Mormons say they believe in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. However, Mormon doctrine denies the Trinity, teaching that the Father, Son, and Spirit do not comprise one God.

According to Mormonism, Jesus is a created being, the first spirit to be born of the Father (Mormon Doctrine, p.129) and a celestial mother (Mormon Doctrine, p.516). Therefore, Jesus could not be the eternal God or part of an eternal Trinity. Mormons also teach that both the Father and the Son are men with bodies of flesh and bone (Doctrine & Covenants 132:20; Articles of Faith, p 38); as two separate people, the Father and the Son cannot be considered “one.”

Mormons also teach that Jesus is just one of many sons of God. Jesus is referred to specifically as “a son of God” in the Book of Mormon (Alma 36:17). Lucifer, or the devil, is another son of God in Mormon theology (Mormon Doctrine, p.163). Further, Mormonism teaches that the number of gods is increasing. Any man on Earth can one day become the god of another planet and populate it with children born to him from his eternal wife (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 345-354). Any one of those children can later become a god in his own right (Doctrine & Covenants 132:20). Thus, there is not just One God, triune or not; there are many, many gods (Book of Abraham 4:3). [Note: The Book of Abraham replaces God (Elohim) with *the Gods* in the creation account in chapter 4. But Elohim (plural) reveals the triune Godhead]

Mormonism’s founder, Joseph Smith, clearly rejected the Trinity. He wrote, “Many men say there is one God; the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are only one God. I say that is a strange God. . . . All are crammed into one God according to sectarianism [the Christian faith]. It would make the biggest God in all the world. He would be a wonderfully big God—he would be a giant or a monster” (Teachings, p. 372). Other Mormon writers such as James Talmage have confirmed Mormon denial of the Trinity (Articles of Faith, p.35)....

 

[amadeus]

I respect you and your views. Here's my quote to Helen that I think applies to what your saying as well.

I respect your views on this, but I see it differently. JaneDoe had first created a thread to state her Mormon beliefs. I saw JustByFaith's thread as a followup to her thread, and he invited her to participate. I'm concerned that you seem to see this as an attack on her personally. Like I said before, I think his posts have been civil, in fact, some of the most civil posts I've read in a debate-type thread.
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I'm very concerned that some of you don't seem to see the dangers of cults. Actually, I don't know what to say. Some who are accusing the OP of being uncivil are not showing all that much civility to me and my views.
.

I hear what you are saying and understand. My position if not only for JaneDoe nor does it relate only to Mormons and Mormonism. What I am looking for is people who are open. People believe they are correct and yet they insist on attacking the opposition instead of pursuing God so that He can improve their walk with him. If the opposition are wrong, are they not already condemned according to the scripture?

Personally, I don't worry about cults catching me. If they catch someone else, likely what that person had as a believer was not what it should be for if God be for us, who can be against us?

The unsaved and the new converts may find trouble with such groups [Mormons, JWs, Oneness, etc.]or even in the traditional mainstream Protestant groups but if their heart is really directed right toward God, will He let them remain in a place that they do not belong? I really believe that this verse always applies, but who can understand it? Many confessed believers apparently understand it differently that I do:

"Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled." Matt 5:6

If a person is only playing games and is not really properly hungry and thirsty will he not receive a proper reward or the lack thereof? We can help people when they need God's help. He will put us in one another's pathway for that purpose. We cannot save everyone and indeed it is not our job to do so. It is our job to believe God and be available when He calls on us.

I hesitate to call any group a cult because every group in my experience teaches and preaches a measure of error. Who is qualified to draw a line putting the so called cults on one side and those standing surely always with God on the other? None but God! And this is my point.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Just so everyone knows, I try to familiarize myself with basic cult doctrines so that I can help those who are caught up in cults. And also help Christians avoid the trap of cults. And they are traps!

I don't think it had to be either/or in this thread--either support JaneDoe OR expose unbiblical Mormon doctrines. I'm glad to see loyalty to a friend, but like I've said, I'm very concerned that some on this thread don't seem to be concerned at all about the ill effects of cults on people.

The love of God compels us to help set the captives free!

 

[CoreIssue]

I hear what you are saying and understand. My position if not only for JaneDoe nor does it relate only to Mormons and Mormonism. What I am looking for is people who are open. People believe they are correct and yet they insist on attacking the opposition instead of pursuing God so that He can improve their walk with him. If the opposition are wrong, are they not already condemned according to the scripture?

Personally, I don't worry about cults catching me. If they catch someone else, likely what that person had as a believer was not what it should be for if God be for us, who can be against us?

The unsaved and the new converts may find trouble with such groups [Mormons, JWs, Oneness, etc.]or even in the traditional mainstream Protestant groups but if their heart is really directed right toward God, will He let them remain in a place that they do not belong? I really believe that this verse always applies, but who can understand it? Many confessed believers apparently understand it differently that I do:

"Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled." Matt 5:6

If a person is only playing games and is not really properly hungry and thirsty will he not receive a proper reward or the lack thereof? We can help people when they need God's help. He will put us in one another's pathway for that purpose. We cannot save everyone and indeed it is not our job to do so. It is our job to believe God and be available when He calls on us.

I hesitate to call any group a cult because every group in my experience teaches and preaches a measure of error. Who is qualified to draw a line putting the so called cults on one side and those standing surely always with God on the other? None but God! And this is my point.

But cults have crossed the line God has drawn and told us in the Bible.

 

[Helen]

But cults have crossed the line God has drawn and told us in the Bible.

So what!
So have all those who claim to be good christians and at the same time are hooked on porn,.... beat their kids ,... molest their kids,.. beat their wives , are gluttons , back biters, gossips, etc etc etc...

Some people have tunnel vision of their own choosing... I just know that when the chips are down, wether we are Mormons, Catholics, JW's, Baptists, Sonship, Charismatic , etc...and, when christianity has been banned and punishable by imprisonment or even death...we all, that name the name of Christ, will suffer side by side.
The Enemy of our souls with hate all of us equally.

 

[CoreIssue]

So what!
So have all those who claim to be good christians and at the same time are hooked on porn,.... beat their kids ,... molest their kids,.. beat their wives , are gluttons , back biters, gossips, etc etc etc...

Some people have tunnel vision of their own choosing... I just know that when the chips are down, wether we are Mormons, Catholics, JW's, Baptists, Sonship, Charismatic , etc...and, when christianity has been banned and punishable by imprisonment or even death...we all, that name the name of Christ, will suffer side by side.
The Enemy of our souls with hate all of us equally.

Cults are not Christian. Not born-again. They have different gods, different Christs and different salvations.

 

[amadeus]

But cults have crossed the line God has drawn and told us in the Bible.

Obviously, to me, not everyone agrees with where that line is! I did not even know I belonged to what some called a cult until someone on the Internet told me. That "cult" was where I learned to read the Bible for the first time in my life.

 

[Helen]

Cults are not Christian. Not born-again. They have different gods, different Christs and different salvations.

You obviously make yourself judge and jury.

All I can say is...'we will wait and we will see' ...
It's not you who will have the final word...thankfully.

 

[amadeus]

Cults are not Christian. Not born-again. They have different gods, different Christs and different salvations.

That is pretty harsh condemnation of a whole lot of people unseen and unknown. Were all of the Pharisees lost? How about Nicodemus?
Don't you believe it is possible for a person to see Jesus without even having the NT. Consider, Stephen in the Book of Acts. He had at best access to the OT.

If child is born to parents belonging one of these groups you designate as a cult, is he without hope even though his parents are sincere in their focus on God? Don't say that cannot happen! You do not know even though you may believe it.

 

[mjrhealth]

Cults are not Christian. Not born-again. They have different gods, different Christs and different salvations.

that pretty much covers every man made religion / church on this earth...

 

[mjrhealth]

That is pretty harsh condemnation of a whole lot of people unseen and unknown. Were all of the Pharisees lost? How about Nicodemus?
Don't you believe it is possible for a person to see Jesus without even having the NT. Consider, Stephen in the Book of Acts. He had at best access to the OT.

If child is born to parents belonging one of these groups you designate as a cult, is he without hope even though his parents are sincere in their focus on God? Don't say that cannot happen! You do not know even though you may believe it.

God know the hearts of men, but church has a habit of putting God in a box and stifling growth by imposing its rules and ideologies on the believer, the only way to grow in Christ is,

Rev_18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

it is hard to hear His voice when your being swamped with so many others, remember Babylon.

 

[amadeus]

God know the hearts of men, but church has a habit of putting God in a box and stifling growth by imposing its rules and ideologies on the believer, the only way to grow in Christ is,

Rev_18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

it is hard to hear His voice when your being swamped with so many others, remember Babylon.

Yes, this is so. Remember and come out of any place of confusion!

We as His sheep are to recognize His voice and NOT the voices of strangers. The voice of a stranger may originate in our own heart... How do we avoid that? [see Matt 25:32-45]

 

[Helen]

Cults are not Christian. Not born-again. They have different gods, different Christs and different salvations.

You are obviously stuck in one grove...like the old records that we had that play the same old tune, over and over again. Pretty pathetic.

 

[justbyfaith]

The Hebrew expressions 'for ever and ever' do not express eternality, but to the end of a specific time,

That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

It is insulting to throw a THIRD party's Opinion in the face of a member of another Church and demand they answer for the THIRD party's Opinion.

If I were interested in what is a Mormon Churches Statement of Faith and Mission Statement; I would visit several Mormon online sites, and read "their" collective view.

If a system of faith is being warned against by someone; my personal take on it would be to see what the warning is first and then check it with people who promote that system of belief to see what they have to say about it; which is what I did in this thread.

8. That the Bible and Book of Mormon are both divinely revealed scripture.

Unfortunately, in Mormonism the Bible is relegated to "second best" and is considered to be less inspired than the Book of Mormon and other Mormon documents; and is therefore undermined to the general Mormon population. Where there is a discrepancy, the Bible must be wrong, in their view.

So, in effect, I don't worry about what OTHER "specifically" identified Churches are doing.

You are called upon in scripture to love thy neighbor as thyself. So then, if people are being deceived (so that they would be cast into hell) by a "specifically identified church group", I think that God would have you do what you can to keep your neighbor from being caught up in that.

The fact is ..he posted his 'anti mormon' post in his OP and then TAGGED Jane Doe, so it would show up in her ALERT'S

In anyones book...that is making it personal.

Yes, it is personal....but you seem to think that it was done out of some kind of hatred. I tagged her because I know that she is that group (she is the only one who has been bold enough of that group to identify herself as being of that group, and she is to be commended for that, as it is commendable when a Christian does it) and because there is a hope that she can be delivered from the deception of that group. Therefore I did single her out because she is one who is actively promoting that religion to a lot of people, it seems, so that many of you are blinded so that you cannot even see that Mormonism is a deception that will place you ultimately in the fires of hell. And I wanted her specifically to see the information in the hopes that she might be delivered from the deceptions that are set forth by Mormonism.

And where is the charity in what you are selling? Without charity what do we have?

Perhaps, partially, in letting it go right now that you are accusing me of lacking in charity, when I know that it is not the case.

See, I have this day set thee over the nations and over the kingdoms, to root out, and to pull down, and to destroy, and to throw down, to build, and to plant." Jerem 1:10

Was God speaking to you with those words?

Indeed He was. For all scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

We may indeed be led to read or study the beliefs of particular sects, but is that work of each and every believer in Christ? Are we not to be different parts of the Body of Christ with different functions according to our calling and according to the lead of the Holy Spirit?

It is needed for us that before we look into the doctrines of anything that might be designated a cult, that we determine what their unbiblical beliefs are and check them by the word of God to see whether they are indeed unbiblical. If you are going to be interested in the doctrines of a cult, it is best not to get it from the source first; but to find out what the opponents of the cult have to say about their false doctrines before you waste your time delving into everything that they believe as a member. Who wants to be the member of any group that is truly a cult in the eyes of the Lord? I am certainly not raising my hand.

She offered to visit via PM with any really interested.

And yet some of you will continue to say that she is not proselytizing. I would say very clearly that she is simply doping a soft sell on all of you.

Remember that in the beginning this thread was directed at one person with the sole purpose apparently of exposing HER and working under the presumption that as the Mormon Church went that was necessarily always the way that she went.

As I said before, I mentioned her specifically because she is a bold proponent of her faith, which is commendable. If anyone is going to be bold about their faith like she is with hers, then they are willing to take flack for what they believe in. But it seems that she has taken the angle of complaining about those who question her beliefs and calls them "abusive".

Well I guess it all comes down to -what spirit is the correction given?

Definitely in love and in the hopes that she will be delivered from her false system of belief.

Let the ones who obviously 'know everything' have it...
They are much more interested on lifting up their bible than lifting up the Lord in all His glory.

1) God has magnified His word above all of His name (Psalms 138:2).

2) Jesus is the Word (John 1:1,14).

3) God the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of truth (John 14:17, 16:13).

For those who resent being corrected, I point them to Psalms 94:10. For God is also the Holy Spirit within us.

We cannot save everyone and indeed it is not our job to do so.

It is Jesus' mandate that we love our neighbor as ourselves; and I believe that this includes fulfilling the Great Commission.

All I can say is...'we will wait and we will see' ...
It's not you who will have the final word...thankfully.

Indeed, we will see...what will happen to those who reject the word of the Lord as being the truth? I do not wish on them what their fate will truly be.

If child is born to parents belonging one of these groups you designate as a cult, is he without hope even though his parents are sincere in their focus on God? Don't say that cannot happen! You do not know even though you may believe it.

And again, it is threads like this one that may be the venues that the Lord uses to deliver those people out of their bubbles that they are in for that they were born into an institution of religion.

Pretty pathetic.

This shows clearly the attitude of those who are against those of us who desire that people we care about would not remain in an institution of lies...it is these kinds of words that come forth from their lips and attitudes that go with these kinds of words that these people have towards those who really do bear the truth.

 

[CoreIssue]

Obviously, to me, not everyone agrees with where that line is! I did not even know I belonged to what some called a cult until someone on the Internet told me. That "cult" was where I learned to read the Bible for the first time in my life.

Ignorance does not negate the truth. What happened to the Holy Spirit opening your eyes?

But in oneness you learned a false Christ and Holy Spirit.

Having another Christ, god or salvation is a cult. There is no way such can find the other truths of the Bible and God.

One claiming they had Jesus Christ does not mean they have the true Jesus Christ.

 

[CoreIssue]

You are obviously stuck in one grove...like the old records that we had that play the same old tune, over and over again. Pretty pathetic.

I am stuck in one groove, the Bible. The truth does not change.

You call that pathetic?

 

[justbyfaith]

Ignorance does not negate the truth. What happened to the Holy Spirit opening your eyes?

But in oneness you learned a false Christ and Holy Spirit.

Having another Christ, god or salvation is a cult. There is no way such can find the other truths of the Bible and God.

One claiming they had Jesus Christ does not mean they have the true Jesus Christ.

I suggest, mainly, receiving baptism in Jesus' Name and that then the Holy Ghost is absolutely promised (Acts of the Apostles 2:38-39, Romans 8:30); and if you want to not continue going to a Oneness Church after being baptized so as not to be indoctrinated by them, then by all means discontinue from their fellowship.

I would say however that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of truth.

The son that was given shall be called among other things the Everlasting Father (Isaiah 9:6). I find that certain Christians have to be dishonest about this scripture in order to deny the Deity of Jesus Christ as being the one true God and one true Lord of everything (as opposed to a second Lord and God; or else, 1/3 of the one Lord and God).

There is one God, even the Father (1 Corinthians 8:6, James 3:9, Romans 15:6). And Jesus is God (Hebrews 1:8).

There is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5, 1 Corinthians 8:6). And the Father is that Lord (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21). However, no one can say that Jesus is the Lord except in the power of the Holy Ghost (1 Corinthians 12:3 (kjv)); and therefore it is the Holy Ghost who testifies to the fact that Jesus is the one Lord.

Also, from what I understand, @amadeus is not what you would consider to be Oneness any more.

 

[Helen]

@justbyfaith @CoreIssue @Prayer Warrior

As you seem to be the main "correctors" of Jane Doe and everyone else here ...it is showing as obvious that you really do believe that you, and you alone can see all Truth perfectly. ..and stand in the place of correctors.....
....and that rest of us don't have a clue which end is up...and can't possibly 'real correct Christians'....like you. Hope you enjoy your elevated self proclaimed positions.

 

[justbyfaith]

@justbyfaith @CoreIssue @Prayer Warrior

As you seem to be the main "correctors" of Jane Doe and everyone else here ...it is showing as obvious that you really do believe that you, and you alone can see all Truth perfectly. ..and stand in the place of correctors.....
....and that rest of us don't have a clue which end is up...and can't possibly 'real correct Christians'....like you. (original post: ) How arrogant is that!

I would just point out that being able to discern truth from error is not arrogance. We know whom we have believed in; and we study to shew ourselves approved, workmen who do not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

It takes humility to be able to study the scriptures and accept what they say over and above our own opinions.

 

[CoreIssue]

I suggest, mainly, receiving baptism in Jesus' Name and that then the Holy Ghost is absolutely promised (Acts of the Apostles 2:38-39, Romans 8:30); and if you want to not continue going to a Oneness Church after being baptized so as not to be indoctrinated by them, then by all means discontinue from their fellowship.

I would say however that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of truth.

The son that was given shall be called among other things the Everlasting Father (Isaiah 9:6). I find that certain Christians have to be dishonest about this scripture in order to deny the Deity of Jesus Christ as being the one true God and one true Lord of everything.

There is one God, even the Father (1 Corinthians 8:6, James 3:9, Romans 15:6). And Jesus is God (Hebrews 1:8).

There is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5, 1 Corinthians 8:6). And the Father is that Lord (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21). However, no one can say that Jesus is the Lord except in the power of the Holy Ghost (1 Corinthians 12:3 (kjv)); and therefore it is the Holy Ghost who testifies to the fact that Jesus is the one Lord.

Also, from what I understand, @amadeus is not what you would consider to be Oneness any more.

You get the baptism of the Holy Spirit when you repent. You're making water baptism a work.