Fact or Fiction

[Renniks]

Where are they during that time?

Where are the dead in Christ Right Now?

They are with God in paradise.

 

[Enoch111]

They are with God in paradise.

And Paradise is in the New Jerusalem, which is in Heaven.

It is simply amazing to see so many *Christians* fighting against the fact that the saints are all in Heaven, and go to Heaven upon their demise. And they all love to talk about Soul Sleep.

 

[Waiting on him]

Hello @marks,

I didn't add any words to the text, simply highlighted what was already there to emphasise a point.

I believe there to be more than one resurrection. The one referred to in (reply #47) from 1 Thessalonians 4, being just one. That one being associated with the hope of the Hebrew believers Paul was writing to, and that to which the Lord referred in John 11:23-27.

You make reference to:- 'the gentile church', @marks, but with respect this term is not used in Scripture. The Thessalonian letter was one of the earliest of Paul's epistles, and was comprised largely of Jews but also of devout Greeks to whom the doors of the Kingdom had been opened, and who had been grafted into Israel's Olive Tree. The hope of this company is associated with the Heavenly City the New Jerusalem which comes down out of Heaven, which is the city made without hands which Abraham and those of like precious faith looked for: and not with the Hope of the Church which is the Body of Christ which is to be enjoyed in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Matthew 27:52-53 KJV
And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, [53] And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

 

[farouk]

Hello @farouk,

In reply #56, that you are responding to, it was the fires of Gehenna (G1067), referred to by the Lord, that I was considering. References to which are found in :- Matthew 5:22, Matthew 5:29-30; Matthew 10:28; Matthew 18:9; Matthew 23:15; Matthew 23:33. Mark 9:43, Mark 9:45, Mark 9:47. Luke 12:5. All of these references refer to Judgement, and destruction which will take place in the day of judgment. So, no, I do not believe in eternal conscious punishment, farouk.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Well, thank-you for admitting what you really believe. I can't agree.

 

[farouk]

It is simply amazing to see so many *Christians* fighting against the fact that the saints are all in Heaven, and go to Heaven upon their demise. And they all love to talk about Soul Sleep.

Exactly, Sir. For the deniers, to paraphrase Tina Turner, 'What's the Bible got to with it, got to do with it?'

 

[Waiting on him]

Matthew 27:52-53 KJV
And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, [53] And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

@charity in your opinion what or where is this holy city?

 

[kcnalp]

Luke 16:19-31, is not a literal account

No proof? Of course not. The eternal Hell fire is what Jesus taught!

Matthew 25:41-46 (NKJV)
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

 

[charity]

Matthew 27:52-53 KJV
And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, [53] And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Hello @Waiting on him,

We are not told, but I believe that like Lazarus, they were raised to natural life, but not resurrection life, therefore they would still be subject to death.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[charity]

Well, thank-you for admitting what you really believe. I can't agree.

Hello @farouk,

You make it sound as though I were admitting having committed an offence.

I have researched this subject, by comparing Scripture with Scripture, thoroughly, so I have no problem with stating what I believe regarding it, for I know that I am on solid ground.

That you disagree with my findings is no problem for me, farouk, for it is the word of God that must be the arbiter on this, as with everything, isn't it?

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[charity]

@charity in your opinion what or where is this holy city?

'And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom;
.. and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
.... and the graves were opened;
...... and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
And came out of the graves after His resurrection,
.. and went into the holy city,
.... and appeared unto many.
(Matthew 27:51)

Hello @Waiting on him,

This was the city of Jerusalem. They were seen by many.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[charity]

No proof? Of course not. The eternal Hell fire is what Jesus taught!
Matthew 25:41-46 (NKJV)
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand,
'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

'Then shall He say also unto them on the left hand,
Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire,
prepared for the devil and his angels:
.. For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat:
.... I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
...... I was a stranger, and ye took me not in:
........ naked, and ye clothed me not:
.......... sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Then shall they also answer him, saying,
.. Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger,
.... or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Then shall He answer them, saying,
.. Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these,
.... ye did it not to me.
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment:
.. but the righteous into life eternal.'
(Matthew 25:41-46)

Hello @kcnalp,

The passage you refer to concerns the gathering of the nations for final judgement (Matthew 25:32-46).

'The Son of Man shall come in His glory,
.. and all the holy angels with Him,
.... then shall He sit upon the throne of His glory:
...... and before Him shall be gathered all nations:
and He shall separate them one from another,
.. as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
.... and He shall set the sheep on His right hand,
...... but the goats on the left.'
Matthew 25:31-33)

* The 'everlasting' fire prepared for the Devil and his angels, in the verse you quote (Matthew 25:41) is found in Revelation 19:20 and Revelation 20:10. This does not appear to be the fire of Gehenna that our Lord refers to elsewhere, and which is translated 'Hell' (G1067), found in :- Matthew 5:22-30; Matthew 10:28; Matthew 18:9; Matthew 23:15; Matthew 23:33; Mark 9:43-47; Luke 12:5

* The 'punishment' for these nations is 'everlasting' because a final judgement, with no hope of reprieve.

* It is worth remembering that it is said in Revelation 20:14, that both, 'Death', and 'Hell' ('Hades'(G86) - 'the place of the dead' - or 'the grave') will be cast into 'the lake of fire' too. So, Hell cannot also be 'the lake of fire', as some say.

* Context is vital to the understanding of any verse in Scripture.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[kcnalp]

'Then shall He say also unto them on the left hand,
Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire,
prepared for the devil and his angels:
.. For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat:
.... I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
...... I was a stranger, and ye took me not in:
........ naked, and ye clothed me not:
.......... sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Then shall they also answer him, saying,
.. Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger,
.... or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Then shall He answer them, saying,
.. Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these,
.... ye did it not to me.
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment:
.. but the righteous into life eternal.'
(Matthew 25:41-46)

Hello @kcnalp,

The passage you refer to concerns the gathering of the nations for final judgement (Matthew 25:32-46).

'The Son of Man shall come in His glory,
.. and all the holy angels with Him,
.... then shall He sit upon the throne of His glory:
...... and before Him shall be gathered all nations:
and He shall separate them one from another,
.. as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
.... and He shall set the sheep on His right hand,
...... but the goats on the left.'
Matthew 25:31-33)

* The 'everlasting' fire prepared for the Devil and his angels, in the verse you quote (Matthew 25:41) is found in Revelation 19:20 and Revelation 20:10. This does not appear to be the fire of Gehenna that our Lord refers to elsewhere, and which is translated 'Hell' (G1067), found in :- Matthew 5:22-30; Matthew 10:28; Matthew 18:9; Matthew 23:15; Matthew 23:33; Mark 9:43-47; Luke 12:5

* The 'punishment' for these nations is 'everlasting' because a final judgement, with no hope of reprieve.

* It is worth remembering that it is said in Revelation 20:14, that both, 'Death', and 'Hell' ('Hades'(G86) - 'the place of the dead' - or 'the grave') will be cast into 'the lake of fire' too. So, Hell cannot also be 'the lake of fire', as some say.

* Context is vital to the understanding of any verse in Scripture.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Couldn't be any clearer!
Matthew 25:41-46
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand,
'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

 

[charity]

Couldn't be any clearer!
Matthew 25:41-46
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand,
'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Hello @kcnalp,

Yes, Praise God! God's Word is clear when kept in context. However, if taken out of it's context it can be twisted to fit the bias of the individual using it, to the detrement of truth.

In Christ Jesus
Chris,

 

[kcnalp]

Hello @kcnalp,

Yes, Praise God! God's Word is clear when kept in context. However, if taken out of it's context it can be twisted to fit the bias of the individual using it, to the detrement of truth.

In Christ Jesus
Chris,

Yep, Hell fire is eternal!

Revelation 20:10
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

[Waiting on him]

Yep, Hell fire is eternal!

Revelation 20:10
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

That's interesting there seems to be a solar cycle there.

 

[kcnalp]

Belief in the eternal Hell fire is not required for residency therein. Hell will be filled with those who don't believe in Hell.

 

[Waiting on him]

I wonder if there's seasonal changes there also, or do you think it orbits the sun in a perfect circle?

 

[Waiting on him]

Maybe there's no winter there since the worms don't seem to die as stated 3 times in Mark.

 

[Waiting on him]

Anyhow glad too hear you guys have it all in context.

 

[kcnalp]

Maybe there's no winter there since the worms don't seem to die as stated 3 times in Mark.

Hell is a very nasty place! And cooped up with the worst beings who ever lived, in "outer darkness", forever and ever!

Matthew 25:41
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: