Fact or Fiction
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ThePuffyBlob
Well-Known Member
The spirit of the flesh who died will go to whom who gave it
The souls of the righteous are in heaven
The souls of the wicked are locked up
And a person who died do not feel anything nor can do anything nor can it go back to where it came from nor does it know anything
It is all written in the bible
You are right the dead are still alive but sleeping we all will wake up in the judgement day but you can't put aside other verses and instead cling to myths
That may have been true BEFORE the resurrection of Christ, but no one is sleeping in Heaven.
ThePuffyBlob
Well-Known Member
Yes that was my opinion based on what christ has said and based on what was written** that a dead person is alive and this dead person know nothing this dead person can't move it can't feel that is why i said it is sleeping but never said it is sleeping in heaven
Hi; Ephesians 2 interestingly speaks of people who were dead in unbelief by have been made alive by grace in Christ.
ThePuffyBlob
Well-Known Member
i am talking about dead in the flesh not dead in the spiritHi; Ephesians 2 interestingly speaks of people who were dead in unbelief by have been made alive by grace in Christ.
i am talking about the dead coming back to his/her house to appear or take revenge
and all of this are deceptions because the dead know not a thing fyi i am not talking about salvation but the so called ghost not the holy ghost okay? but the ghost that is man made
@Enoch111 said They are either awake in Heaven or in Hades. what is the misconception?
that is why i opposed
they are awake but know nothing? does that make sense? and
hades is sheol right? a graveyard a cemetery hades is not hell and
hell is not the lake of fire
EDITED: sorry nalang forget about what i said i don't feel like wanting to talk anymore i don't get anything good but pride + sin
'Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about
with so great a cloud of witnesses,
let us lay aside every weight,
and the sin which doth so easily beset us,
and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,'
(Hebrews 12:1)
Hello Enoch111,
You say that the dead are very much awake and alive according to Scripture. That is not what I see written? You quote Hebrews 12:1 & 22-24). Yet the context of that Scripture denies your use of it as a proof text that the dead are in fact living. Hebrews 12:1 begins with the word, 'Wherefore', which requires that we look at what came before it, in order to understand what Hebrews 12:1 is saying. In Hebrews 11:39-40, we read concerning this great cloud of witnesses:-
‘And these all,
having obtained a good report through faith,
received not the promise:
God having provided some better thing for us,
that they without us should not be made perfect.’
The words, 'made perfect' in this context can be understood by the words of the Lord Jesus Christ in Luke 13:32:-
'And He said unto them, "Go ye, and tell that fox,
Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow,
and the third day I shall be perfected.'
As you can see the Lord was referring to the day when He would be raised to life (in resurrection). In Hebrews 11:39-40, the Hebrew believers are being told that the great cloud of witnesses, whose lives testified (or witnessed) to the surety of the promises of God, would not be made perfect (ie., raised to life) 'without' those Hebrew believers to whom Paul wrote. The great cloud of witnesses who had borne witness during their lifetime, and died not having received the promises concerning which they testified: await now the resurrection of the dead; when they will be made perfect by being united in body and spirit; and with those who continue the witness of faith (the Hebrew believers to whom Paul wrote), be raised from being 'asleep in Christ' (1 Thessalonians 4:15) to rise to meet the descending Lord in the air. Being joined by those who are alive and remain, for whom God has provided a 'better thing', that they will not see death, but be changed in the twinkling of an eye from mortality to immortality, from corruption to incorruption, to rise to meet their coming Lord in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:17), and enter into the promises for which they had lived and died (Hebrews 12:22-24), to the glory of their God and Saviour.
Praise God!
Thank you,
In Christ Jesus
Chris
* 'made perfect' = teleioo (ie., in this context:- ‘to make a full end’ or ‘to consummate’).
* There is no perfection in death, or in the grave. The body returns to dust, as it was, and the spirit returns to God Who gave it. Both are imperfect until they are re-united in Resurrection.
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Hello again,
It is the belief that man has an immortal soul which has created the need to also believe in a destination for it at death. Either heaven or hell. This has perpetuated Satan's lie which deceived our first parents. God said, 'Thou shalt SURELY die' (Genesis 2:17), whereas Satan said, 'Thou shalt NOT surely die' (Genesis 3:4). And Traditionists and Spiritists agree with Satan in saying, There is no such thing as death: it is only life in some other form. I have read:-
'God speaks of death as an 'enemy' (1 Corinthians 15:26)
In Philippians 2:27 we are told that Epaphroditus, 'was sick nigh unto death; but God had mercy on him' So that it was mercy to preserve Epaphroditus from death. This could hardly be called 'mercy' if death were the 'gate of glory', according to popular tradition.
Psalm 146:4 says of man:-
'His breath goeth forth
He returneth to his earth;
In that very day his thoughts perish'.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
It is the belief that man has an immortal soul which has created the need to also believe in a destination for it at death. Either heaven or hell. This has perpetuated Satan's lie which deceived our first parents. God said, 'Thou shalt SURELY die' (Genesis 2:17), whereas Satan said, 'Thou shalt NOT surely die' (Genesis 3:4). And Traditionists and Spiritists agree with Satan in saying, There is no such thing as death: it is only life in some other form. I have read:-
'God speaks of death as an 'enemy' (1 Corinthians 15:26)
Man speaks of it as a friend.
God speaks of it as a terminus:Man speaks of it as a gate.
God speaks of it as a calamity;Man speaks of it as a blessing.
God speaks of it as a fear and a terror;Man speaks of it as a hope.
God speaks of delivering from it as shewing 'mercy',Man, strange to say, says the same!
and loses no opportunity of seeking such deliverance
by using every means in his power.'
and loses no opportunity of seeking such deliverance
by using every means in his power.'
In Philippians 2:27 we are told that Epaphroditus, 'was sick nigh unto death; but God had mercy on him' So that it was mercy to preserve Epaphroditus from death. This could hardly be called 'mercy' if death were the 'gate of glory', according to popular tradition.
Psalm 146:4 says of man:-
'His breath goeth forth
He returneth to his earth;
In that very day his thoughts perish'.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Ha, ha, "dead" can mean different things. There are some people we might call "living" since their physical bodies are moving around, but spiritually they are dead. . . .
Matthew 8:21 And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.
22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.
Some could say Jesus was stark raving mad when he said what he did in the passage Marks quoted for us.
John 11
23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.
Obviously -- obviously, he wasn't talking about physical bodies.
I had a dear aunt who held different beliefs than I did; but she was a wonderful person. I had a conversation with her shortly before she "died." She said she was ready to go. That gave me comfort; but I got an even bigger surprise on night when I was caught up in the spirit and met her.
She was with three other people who didn't notice me. I said stupidly, "I thought you were dead." She laughed -- and it was her laugh -- I've never met another person who laughed the same way. Then she said, "Some people might call it that." Then she indicated that I shouldn't linger. If we kept talking, we might bother the other people with her. That made sense to me.
I have met other "dead" people. No, I don't go out looking for them -- I wouldn't want to disturb their rest or interfere with them in any way; but if they turn up, they turn up. I've met my Mother and Father after they passed; and I've met Abraham and Sarah. Assuredly -- I guarantee it that Jesus was right -- Abraham is alive. God is the God of the living.
What is sad is when the "dead" people in living physical bodies do not find God in this lifetime on earth. When their physical bodies die, they remain spiritually dead. Some enter a state you could compare to sleeping. This type of "dead" person knows nothing. God knows how to wake them up -- it sounds like a trumpet to some people. Ha, and some saints can also hear the same trumpet before their physical bodies die. Moses did. John did. If you are ready to hear it and not afraid of it -- it changes you now. You do not need to go to sleep to be awakened later.
Matthew 8:21 And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.
22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.
Some could say Jesus was stark raving mad when he said what he did in the passage Marks quoted for us.
John 11
23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.
Obviously -- obviously, he wasn't talking about physical bodies.
I had a dear aunt who held different beliefs than I did; but she was a wonderful person. I had a conversation with her shortly before she "died." She said she was ready to go. That gave me comfort; but I got an even bigger surprise on night when I was caught up in the spirit and met her.
She was with three other people who didn't notice me. I said stupidly, "I thought you were dead." She laughed -- and it was her laugh -- I've never met another person who laughed the same way. Then she said, "Some people might call it that." Then she indicated that I shouldn't linger. If we kept talking, we might bother the other people with her. That made sense to me.
I have met other "dead" people. No, I don't go out looking for them -- I wouldn't want to disturb their rest or interfere with them in any way; but if they turn up, they turn up. I've met my Mother and Father after they passed; and I've met Abraham and Sarah. Assuredly -- I guarantee it that Jesus was right -- Abraham is alive. God is the God of the living.
What is sad is when the "dead" people in living physical bodies do not find God in this lifetime on earth. When their physical bodies die, they remain spiritually dead. Some enter a state you could compare to sleeping. This type of "dead" person knows nothing. God knows how to wake them up -- it sounds like a trumpet to some people. Ha, and some saints can also hear the same trumpet before their physical bodies die. Moses did. John did. If you are ready to hear it and not afraid of it -- it changes you now. You do not need to go to sleep to be awakened later.
Context please:
Psalm 146:3 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.
4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
But!
5 Happy is he that hath the God of Jacob for his help, whose hope is in the LORD his God:
With respect @Giuliano,
You could not possibly have seen your dead relative. You have been the victim of a deceiving spirit.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Are you spiritual eyes open? Have you visited hell to see what was there? I have. Yes, there are sections of hell people should do everything in this life to avoid going there. You speak as if you know -- but what have you seen? Do you think you can read a book and know?
I'll say this. I've also met Michael, Mary and Jesus. I was corrected by them. I found out spiritual flaws I had that needed to be corrected; and I loved God for the gentle way I was chastened. I loved God and Jesus more. If that was the result of a deceiving spirit, it must have been a very stupid one. I'd suggest it stop trying to deceive people if it makes them love God more.
I have also chatted with a few demons. Oh, yes, even seen one in a church once. I think I can tell the difference. Many people lack both spiritual eyes and ears but fancy their thoughts are coming from God. Now that's dangerous. I also think it's dangerous to think messages or insights are coming from God unless we feel reproved, chastened and the better off for having them.
It is very easy for the Dark Side to deceive proud people. It is also easy for the blind to follow the blind; and I say the spiritual blind do not know how to interpret some difficult passages in the Bible. Nor should the blind follow the first spiritually sighted person they meet since some people who have visions are also being fooled. But much of Christianity is the blind leading the blind -- or people believing every thought that comes to their mind is from God.
Indeed many people can't discern thoughts coming from outside sources from their own thoughts. People would be better off if their goal was to discover the wrong ideas they hold and thanking God when they find out they had been wrong rather than to try to prove the ideas they have are right. I think other people if they show me I was wrong. I figure they did me a favor. (In all things, give thanks.) At the moment, I can think of only one instance at this forum where someone pointed out how I was wrong -- and I was. Of course, I expressed thanks.
If you knew how to correct false ideas I had, I'd also thank you; but you're being dogmatic. I also see you did not address how you neglected the context of Psalm 146 which tells us not to put our faith in man or the son of man. Ha, do that, and you could wind up "dead" spiritually.
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Similarly:Hi; Ephesians 2 interestingly speaks of people who were dead in unbelief by have been made alive by grace in Christ.
1 John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
Death takes away our ability to be fruitful in this world, thus ending our opportunity for reward, and ending the opportunity of others to benefit from our gifts. Not to mention, I have no idea how much he was suffering, and to relieve that suffering, if only for that time, isn't that also mercy?
Much love!
I would disagree with this. That may be the reason why some have concluded this.
I see them as separate matters. The soul need not be immortal even with God having plans for man after his death in this world. The soul need not exist before life, and need not exist after judgment, that doesn't mean the soul won't exist between life and judgment.
" . . . he who believe in my though dying, shall live, and he who lives and believes in my shall never die." I take this at face value.
I do not foresee any break or interruption to my life imposed by the death of my body.
I'm already with Christ in heaven. Why should I think that would stop?
Solomon wrote about "life under the sun". But Jesus taught us about life in Him.
Much love!
Luke 16:22-25
22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was buried.
23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.'
25 But Abraham said, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented.
Hello @kcnalp,
This portion of Luke 16 is used to justify the belief that the dead are conscious, can see, hear, feel and speak, after death. Yet it is contrary to the testimony of Scripture as a whole. Therefore the Lord is not using it for that purpose. No! This story is an example the Lord is using of Pharisaic teaching, to show the hypocrisy of it, and the blatant denial of all that is written in God's Word concerning the state of the dead.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
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Hello @marks,
You ask, 'Who exactly is agreeing with Satan?' Anyone who says, as Satan did, 'Thou shalt not surely die'.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
