Faith, Hope, Love

[stunnedbygrace]

I've insisted on faith (trusting God) for long. But it was often a peevish or...fatalistic trust, like...what hard and mean things will He do to me today? But then I began to see some of the good that came to me through testing of my trust and I became braver in suffering. Who would not agree, or at least bear, what is in your own self interest? Still though, I moved back into and out of a peevish impatience again with some regularity. So I could remain in trust but with a great dislike for the testing He brought to me.

I guess I think...I had trust, but I did not have thankfulness because I don't like discomfort and turmoil inside. So I was more concerned over my comfort now than better things later than now.

At some point, I couldn't seem to go further. I lost hope because...I became weary. I guess I would say...I fainted often because it began to feel like I would remain in turmoil forever. So I began to hope, not in this life, but in the day that I could leave this life.

I think my mistake was not hoping NOW but...I just became too weary in waiting and began to lose hope for now.

Here is what I'm thinking now. Faith\trust overcomes the devil. Hope overcomes the flesh. Not that I have already overcome my flesh, but I have hope again.

But here's what I think brought me to hope now, again. I began to care about some brothers i met. I still don't understand or know how to love God without some self interest but I began to have some interest for the good of these brothers I met. I began to care for their good at least as much as for my own good. I began to pray and hope for them as much as I prayed for myself. So...me became we.

And recently, I came to believe that I had the strength to suffer more, and longer, if my suffering might bring some good for all of us. I guess it sounds strange, but they somehow made me less selfish by giving me a we. And...what I faint in for myself I'm not willing to faint in for them. I couldn't seem to lay down my life for my own good without fainting but I am willing to lay down my life for their good because...somehow...they have given me more strength.

It seems strange, but at the same time, it's like...well, or course it all makes sense now! It makes perfect sense even though I can't understand it...

I probably haven t explained myself well. Somehow, caring for them has given hope to me. Hope for now. I still don't understand dying for God, but I understand dying for them.

 

[mjrhealth]

I've insisted on faith (trusting God) for long. But it was often a peevish or...fatalistic trust, like...what hard and mean things will He do to me today? But then I began to see some of the good that came to me through testing of my trust and I became braver in suffering. Who would not agree, or at least bear, what is in your own self interest? Still though, I moved back into and out of a peevish impatience again with some regularity. So I could remain in trust but with a great dislike for the testing He brought to me.

I guess I think...I had trust, but I did not have thankfulness because I don't like discomfort and turmoil inside. So I was more concerned over my comfort now than better things later than now.

At some point, I couldn't seem to go further. I lost hope because...I became weary. I guess I would say...I fainted often because it began to feel like I would remain in turmoil forever. So I began to hope, not in this life, but in the day that I could leave this life.

I think my mistake was not hoping NOW but...I just became too weary in waiting and began to lose hope for now.

Here is what I'm thinking now. Faith\trust overcomes the devil. Hope overcomes the flesh. Not that I have already overcome my flesh, but I have hope again.

But here's what I think brought me to hope now, again. I began to care about some brothers i met. I still don't understand or know how to love God without some self interest but I began to have some interest for the good of these brothers I met. I began to care for their good at least as much as for my own good. I began to pray and hope for them as much as I prayed for myself. So...me became we.

And recently, I came to believe that I had the strength to suffer more, and longer, if my suffering might bring some good for all of us. I guess it sounds strange, but they somehow made me less selfish by giving me a we. And...what I faint in for myself I'm not willing to faint in for them. I couldn't seem to lay down my life for my own good without fainting but I am willing to lay down my life for their good because...somehow...they have given me more strength.

It seems strange, but at the same time, it's like...well, or course it all makes sense now! It makes perfect sense even though I can't understand it...

I probably haven t explained myself well. Somehow, caring for them has given hope to me. Hope for now. I still don't understand dying for God, but I understand dying for them.

Loosing hope, weve all being there in our walk at sometime, that moment when we cry out, never the less your will be done.

 

[Episkopos]

I've insisted on faith (trusting God) for long. But it was often a peevish or...fatalistic trust, like...what hard and mean things will He do to me today? But then I began to see some of the good that came to me through testing of my trust and I became braver in suffering. Who would not agree, or at least bear, what is in your own self interest? Still though, I moved back into and out of a peevish impatience again with some regularity. So I could remain in trust but with a great dislike for the testing He brought to me.

I guess I think...I had trust, but I did not have thankfulness because I don't like discomfort and turmoil inside. So I was more concerned over my comfort now than better things later than now.

At some point, I couldn't seem to go further. I lost hope because...I became weary. I guess I would say...I fainted often because it began to feel like I would remain in turmoil forever. So I began to hope, not in this life, but in the day that I could leave this life.

I think my mistake was not hoping NOW but...I just became too weary in waiting and began to lose hope for now.

Here is what I'm thinking now. Faith\trust overcomes the devil. Hope overcomes the flesh. Not that I have already overcome my flesh, but I have hope again.

But here's what I think brought me to hope now, again. I began to care about some brothers i met. I still don't understand or know how to love God without some self interest but I began to have some interest for the good of these brothers I met. I began to care for their good at least as much as for my own good. I began to pray and hope for them as much as I prayed for myself. So...me became we.

And recently, I came to believe that I had the strength to suffer more, and longer, if my suffering might bring some good for all of us. I guess it sounds strange, but they somehow made me less selfish by giving me a we. And...what I faint in for myself I'm not willing to faint in for them. I couldn't seem to lay down my life for my own good without fainting but I am willing to lay down my life for their good because...somehow...they have given me more strength.

It seems strange, but at the same time, it's like...well, or course it all makes sense now! It makes perfect sense even though I can't understand it...

I probably haven t explained myself well. Somehow, caring for them has given hope to me. Hope for now. I still don't understand dying for God, but I understand dying for them.

Amen. Rejoice in the Lord always. We are to be Christ centered...not self-centered. If we can't be crucified...dead...we can still carry our cross in this world. We can still identify with Christ and also the brethren...the "we." We can walk so as to encourage others. We can hold our ground in the battle to help others stay strong.

We are to abide faith, hope and love...and all of these outside of ourselves as much as possible at the stage we are in. We can shift our attention away from ourselves until all things pass through Him.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

This is such a strange feeling that I become too easily distressed by it, to be in an unmoored place, feeling that I must be getting lost or going backwards.

To not have a single thing on earth that I want, and to not be able to say that I dont want it either. I dont want and i dont necessarily not want. My heart is not on anything but it doesnt mean that I refuse anything. Things are just things, nothing more and nothing less.

But i know what this is now. It is the cross of our Lord, by which the world has been crucified to me and I to the world. My interest in this world has been crucified and the world's interest in me has also been crucified. I have become untethered from the world and the world has become untethered from me.

So there is no need for distress. It's what I asked for, isnt it? It just doesnt seem like I supposed. I didnt imagine it would feel so disorienting, as if I am untethered from the world but not tethered to God.

I wonder if Jesus felt this during those 40 days where He had died but also had not yet been caught up to God...

Fears sometimes bubble up that He is angry at me and has abandoned me. Also a fear that I could be deceived because I am so imperfect that He should not want me and not bless me.

I can only think of one thing to do, stop being distressed and be willing to be here in this place that I find myself, to calmly trust and stop being so shaken by it. What else could picking up my cross mean but to be willing to be here and just calmly wait? It's okay that it feels strange and disorienting to float in this...nothingness. And He has given me the great mercy of showing me what it is. That mercy alone should keep me in calm trust. Even more than calm trust - I should be rejoicing. How strange that seems to my ear...to rejoice to be in a... nothingness? Or maybe I shouldn't call it a nothingness. Maybe it only seems like nothingness because I've never known it. Maybe it's an amazing somethingness. Or...otherness.

It's amazing to me that I can ask for something and then be given it and think I am NOT given it. In fact, to think I am being given the opposite of what I asked for. This doesnt seem possible.

I still cannot focus on anything on earth. Actually...that's no longer true. I was able to watch a movie last night whereas for weeks prior, I couldn't even do that. In fact, I am trying to think hard about what I have actually done for the past amount of time, a week or two maybe? And I cannot precisely say what I have done or thought. I could only vaguely take a stab at it. The only thing I more vividly remember is distress over feeling untethered from everything and everyone with nowhere to place my heart or rest myself. And there was a great weariness. I think it was the great distress that caused such weariness, not sure...

Still feeling what I felt but...without distress now. The impatient feeling of what the heck is happening, is gone now too. My heart feels lighter. I hope if it comes back I will do better in trust this time.

Probably talking to myself here because no one will understand...

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Another thought. It always seems that when I have calm I will never be shaken again. Then when I am shaken, it always seems I will never have calm again. Why is that...?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Trust without hope is fatalistic and depressed resignation. What would hope without trust be?

 

[amadeus]

This is such a strange feeling that I become too easily distressed by it, to be in an unmoored place, feeling that I must be getting lost or going backwards.

To not have a single thing on earth that I want, and to not be able to say that I dont want it either. I dont want and i dont necessarily not want. My heart is not on anything but it doesnt mean that I refuse anything. Things are just things, nothing more and nothing less.

But i know what this is now. It is the cross of our Lord, by which the world has been crucified to me and I to the world. My interest in this world has been crucified and the world's interest in me has also been crucified. I have become untethered from the world and the world has become untethered from me.

So there is no need for distress. It's what I asked for, isnt it? It just doesnt seem like I supposed. I didnt imagine it would feel so disorienting, as if I am untethered from the world but not tethered to God.

I wonder if Jesus felt this during those 40 days where He had died but also had not yet been caught up to God...

Fears sometimes bubble up that He is angry at me and has abandoned me. Also a fear that I could be deceived because I am so imperfect that He should not want me and not bless me.

I can only think of one thing to do, stop being distressed and be willing to be here in this place that I find myself, to calmly trust and stop being so shaken by it. What else could picking up my cross mean but to be willing to be here and just calmly wait? It's okay that it feels strange and disorienting to float in this...nothingness. And He has given me the great mercy of showing me what it is. That mercy alone should keep me in calm trust. Even more than calm trust - I should be rejoicing. How strange that seems to my ear...to rejoice to be in a... nothingness? Or maybe I shouldn't call it a nothingness. Maybe it only seems like nothingness because I've never known it. Maybe it's an amazing somethingness. Or...otherness.

It's amazing to me that I can ask for something and then be given it and think I am NOT given it. In fact, to think I am being given the opposite of what I asked for. This doesnt seem possible.

I still cannot focus on anything on earth. Actually...that's no longer true. I was able to watch a movie last night whereas for weeks prior, I couldn't even do that. In fact, I am trying to think hard about what I have actually done for the past amount of time, a week or two maybe? And I cannot precisely say what I have done or thought. I could only vaguely take a stab at it. The only thing I more vividly remember is distress over feeling untethered from everything and everyone with nowhere to place my heart or rest myself. And there was a great weariness. I think it was the great distress that caused such weariness, not sure...

Still feeling what I felt but...without distress now. The impatient feeling of what the heck is happening, is gone now too. My heart feels lighter. I hope if it comes back I will do better in trust this time.

Probably talking to myself here because no one will understand...

Untethered from the world and its ways is a good thing, but it is not the end of what is needed. Consider this parable:

When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation." Matt 12:43-45

When the man's house was empty, swept and garnished, he had disconnected completely from the world of men and their ways. But... this is like repentance in the beginning. We are forgiven and our sins are gone, but we are still walking and talking among carnal men and in our hearts are still the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life... which are Not in themselves sin... so for the moment we remain clean and empty. Then we walk out of the church door and something catches hold of our flesh or our eyes or pride even at our repentance begins to build within us. This is the state of that man and of us, unless that empty, swept and garnished vessel that is us is filled with something 'good'.

Jesus told that there is none 'good' but one, that is God. So then in another place we read this:

"Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him." John 6:53-56

If the man in the parable, that is if we, had begun to eat his flesh and drink his blood then we would have filled the empty space with something 'good' and his result, [our result] would not have been a seven fold state of wickedness but rather a movement closer to being like Him!

Remember the old saying, 'You are what you eat'. People might think that is a carnal expression, but really as the above verses indicate it is very much the Word of God... if you are able to understand it.

Of course people get mixed up and confused about eating and drinking as they did when Jesus spoke the words:

"The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?" John 6:52

"From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him." John 6:66

 

[stunnedbygrace]

You lost me a bit brother...

 

[amadeus]

You lost me a bit brother...

I was just going on the face of what you said in your post. It reminded me of the parable I cited. If it doesn't fit your real situation then it may be as you suggested at the end that you were talking to yourself and no one was able to understand. Have a care!

 

[quietthinker]

When Jesus said 'peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

In finding that peace my worldly ambitions have vaporised. I live in thankfulness.....all my earthly needs are supplied ie, food, clothing, shelter.....I do however want for meaningful human company.....in that sense I am alone but I do not fret. At nights I sleep well and wake refreshed. I have learned to trust; I have learned to be content in his promise.

When I consider his generosity and the greatness of the gift of eternal life (Wow! eternal life!)with expanding joy that never ends....when I compare it to the heater skelter of worldly ambitions ...that slippery pole with the carrot never quiet reached.....when I compare it compare it to the short lived imagined satisfaction the world promises and chases relentlessly, I rest in silence and see his beauty in the creation.

Today I rode my motorcycle to town to do my weekly grocery shopping....its a 50 klm trip in.....riding through the forest, across the river then out into the green fields; mountains in the background....the vista is wonderful.....cattle graze with snow white egrets at their snouts picking out the insects as they are disturbed by the cattle, even at times sitting on the cattle's backs without the cattle raising an eye brow....eagles soar majestically catching the thermal updrafts.....blue sky and white clouds and my heart sings 'this is my Fathers world'

I come home and read his words again and there is peace and hope and love.

 

[amadeus]

In finding that peace my worldly ambitions have vaporised. I live in thankfulness.....all my earthly needs are supplied ie, food, clothing, shelter.....I do however want for meaningful human company.....in that sense I am alone but I do not fret. At nights I sleep well and wake refreshed. I have learned to trust; I have learned to be content in his promise.

I surely wish it were only a hop, skip and a jump trip from here to there so I could stop by and visit hopefully meaningfully, but I also have to be content with what I have in Him.

 

[mjrhealth]

You lost me a bit brother...

@amadeus
I wonder if in simple terms he means, that if we filled our selves with Christ and light there would be no place for the darkness, since they cannot share the same space.

Joh 6:32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
Joh 6:33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
Joh 6:34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.
Joh 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

 

[quietthinker]

I surely wish it were only a hop, skip and a jump trip from here to there so I could stop by and visit hopefully meaningfully, but I also have to be content with what I have in Him.

I would be wonderfull to see you if ever you visited this southern continent amadeus.

 

[amadeus]

I would be wonderfull to see you if ever you visited this southern continent amadeus.

When I was young I traveled to many places, but I was also a different me in those days. Now I have connections here... especially my wife and she cannot. As my own body weakens that also reduces my possibilties. Yet, I do not tempt God. He can do what I cannot. Abraham said he was too old, but he trusted God! Praise His name!

Perhaps in any case we will see each other before all is said and done!

 

[brian100]

You can only have faith, hope, and love with God... and make sure you have the right religion. The Shroud tells you which one is right.

Its a 'Jesus and Mary' heaven.

 

[Addy]

You can only have faith, hope, and love with God... and make sure you have the right religion. The Shroud tells you which one is right.

Its a 'Jesus and Mary' heaven.

The right religion .... Another Catholic.... there are several here...

 

[brian100]

With the wrong religion . . hope might be missing. Its like hoping allah to save you.