Faith-Leader Child Predators Awareness
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Truth
Well-Known Member
Truth
Well-Known Member
BTW, I am the farthest thing from "Liberal" you will probably ever see.
Liberal approach was not directed toward you, it is the state of the world, well a good chunk of it, unfortunately !
Small Fish
Active Member
Even at our church picnic days, I do not want to let my two girls (three and six year old) out of my sight for one moment. Even if there is someone looking after them (always an older girl in her teens) I still check on them periodically. Say about every 10 to 15 minutes. I've seen too much and read too much about cases like this. I was shocked to have learned I have personal friends who are attracted to younger girls. I think it is much more common than we think.
No male will ever look after my kids. Even females I select carefully. Very few I trust fully. Neither do I look after other people's young ones without my wife being there. I don't want no trouble.
My kids are one of my biggest priorities in life. And my wife feels the same.
For interest sake, I wonder what percentage of men are attracted to younger girls. Lets say from 16 years old downward. I think I'll go and look.
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May I ask what you have done (or are doing) to help these people you call "personal friends" deal with this?
It might surprise some of you to learn that a great many people carrying this load have expressed a desire to die because of this deviancy. But, we won't even help them (legally) with that, let alone trying to help them deal with it. I think maybe we wish to retain "Holy hands" in the matter. Actually many of our "laws" have really made the epidemic even worse.
Small Fish
Active Member
The one killed himself almost exactly a year ago. I did not realize he had this problem until a few months ago when his mom let the penny dropped by hinting about his dad that had the same issue. He was my cousin. We were very close. I knew he liked younger women but not to that extend.
The other one is in the process of divorcing his wife. I tried to speak to him without letting him know how much I know. But I was approaching him mainly on his affair with a woman at work. He was very blunt and would not let me in. Many people including my pastor tried to persuade him to work on his issues. We can't force him and he seems adamant to go his way. He is at a stage where God needs to do something. He is past talking to us. My wife is making extra effort to console his wife, helping her with chores, kids etc. She is a housewife and she really don't deserve what is happening to her. The whole thing is very disturbing.
My sister was molested by two different men that I know of. I was to young to understand what was going on. So was my cousins. So was my wife as a little girl and a few friends of hers. It's an epidemic.
Small Fish
Active Member
Yes, it is an epidemic, and unless WE stand up (as it seems you, commendingly, have made some steps toward doing), and wade into the messy fight and get down in their snake pit of horror, nothing is going to change.
May I say that perhaps we have another task right alongside that one? Do we not also, and at the same time, help these tormented souls that God also made? Or do you feel it is all only "one or the other?"
Small Fish
Active Member
And I think that is the attitude God wants all of us to have. After all, while we really do want to see them as "monsters", the Bible tells us that, to God, we were no different from any other sinner before He took us in His arms..
Small Fish
Active Member
You always try to help people first. At the same time you have a responsibility to protect whatever needs protected. Say like in this case the children or the assembly. But, if there is a problem, you speak to the person first. Be their friend, don't expose him to everyone except when the problem is larger than you can handle or the person refuses the help. Then you can bring in a trusted person, preferably a trusted deacon or even the pastor while all the time keeping the problem as quiet as possible. No fun having everyone know you done this or this...
Long suffering is important but there comes a time that you must be firm. Like an affair, it cannot be allowed to carry on in the ranks of the believers. Eventually such a person must choose. In or out. Repent or go. This is Scriptural.
Such a person can always come back if he has made right and repented.
1 Corinthians 5:1-13
1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
I wasn't talking about back then. I meant in this last month since he was arrested. Any letter will be delivered right to him... you do not have to visit if that is difficult for you.
I have a much longer article on my computer (and actually sitting on my desk right this minute), but the posting limitations will not allow me to send it out.
However, this short one is worth reading:
http://lifevesting.com/blog/2013/03/13/why-the-church-shoots-its-wounded/
If you're new here, you may want to subscribe to my RSS feed. Or you can select your feed type by clicking on the "Subscribe" button on the right. Thanks for visiting!
A few years ago I was having coffee with an old friend and colleague. I was in a pretty wounded state at the time, and felt compelled to tell him my story. He was compassionate, listened attentively, then asked, “How can I help?”
“I was thinking about visiting your church,” I said, “and just wanted you to know.”
“Well, I’ll be honest with you,” he replied. “We’re not much of a healing place.”
Wow. There it was. Translation: We’re more interested in fresh blood than spilled blood. But to be fair, his church was and is true to its mission as they perceive it. And at least he was kind enough to be honest.
For years I have heard the old saying, “The Christian army is the only army in the world that shoots its wounded.” Let me say right up front, that’s not accurate. If you really believe that, you’ve never been in a corporate “army” or a political one. The wounded get eliminated there all the time.
But the church is supposed to be different, right? We’re supposed to be trophies of grace, havens of love, lighthouses of hope and (make your own cliché here: [blank] of [blank]). So what’s up with that right foot of fellowship?
Defining “Its Own Wounded”
I guess we need to be on the same page here. Sometimes we use the word “wounded” to mean somebody who has been a victim of the sins of others. The good news here is that the church has a history of being more compassionate in those circumstances, at least for the most part.
“Wounded” in this case means someone who has been exposed to the enemy (the devil) and somehow has been defeated. In simplest terms, that usually means they’ve failed somehow. Little or big. Private or public. Wounded means you messed around and got yourself shot, and there’s nobody to blame but you.
But to be even more precise, this saying refers to its own wounded. We love to take in the world’s wounded or the devil’s wounded. We believe we have answers for that.
God’s wounded? That’s another story. And here are 9 reasons why:
1. It saves time and money.
I know that sounds crass and selfish, and I’ve never actually heard somebody say that. But let’s be honest. It’s a whole lot cheaper and quicker to read The Four Spiritual Laws to 20 people and get them in the front door than it is to do the dirty work of restoration and healing of one. Healing and restoration take time, and even in church world, time is money. With limited resources (money), we have to do the most good for the biggest number of people. I know what Jesus said about leaving the 99 and going after the one lost sheep, but Jesus didn’t have to deal with the competition down the street.
2. It makes the gospel harder to sell to the community.
Every time there’s another scandal or another embarrassment to the fellowship, it makes it that much harder to say to a lost and dying world, “Give your heart to Jesus and you can go to heaven when you die and be just like us until you get there.” Who wants to be like us when “us” is being a bad example?
After all, the gospel is only as big as the vehicle that carries it. Right?
3. Sometimes they have to pick sides.
This one’s awkward. Sometimes the wounds spread and involve others in the fellowship. Maybe a marriage gone sour or a business deal gone bad. And it isn’t fair to the congregation to have to choose who’s right or who to side with. But choose they will if they have to. (Hint: They don’t always choose the “victim.”)
I know Jesus prayed for unity and all that. But in the real world sometimes we have to choose the greater good.
4. They’re hurt.
Remember, the church isn’t a thing – it’s people. And even (self) righteous people get their feelings hurt by the failures of others. It hurts to feel betrayed, or embarrassed, or disappointed. I know that Jesus talked about forgiving seventy-times-seven times, but these feelings are real.
5. Pride
Paul said to the Galatians, “Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, so that you too will not be tempted” (Galatians 6:1).
Well, we looked to ourselves, and we would never be tempted to do what they did. That would never happen to us. And we don’t want to be guilty by association, either. We have an image to uphold.
6. Desire
Very few Christians get up on Sunday or Monday mornings hoping they can ignore, hurt, or reject another believer. But what they do want is a simple, easy life, with a relationship with God and His people that makes their lives even more simple and easy. They want answers to their questions, relief for their pain, and inspiration for their day. They don’t want their lives made more complicated by messed up saints. Anyway, isn’t that what professional help is for?
7. Fear
I used to have a dog named Eeyore. Like any dog he had his funny side and his barking side. I noticed something one day about him during one of his barking fits. He wasn’t barking because he was angry or threatening. He was barking because he was terrified. And he was trying to sound tough to keep the perceived threat away.
And that’s exactly why the Church sometimes “barks” at its wounded. The simple truth is, we’re scared. Scared to say the wrong thing. Scared of doing nothing at all. Scared mostly of being scared. So we bark instead.
8. They confuse forgiveness with approval.
Once I was part of a church that gave a baby shower for an unwed pregnant teen. Not everybody was pleased. One lady needed to vent, and I got to hear it. “What kind of message does this send?” I just listened as she went on about back in her day and all that, but my thought was, “I don’t know… but is a baby shower the place to pick that fight?”
The church has always had an awkward relationship with forgiveness because treating someone as if they had never sinned seems to be approving of the sin itself. I know that Jesus prayed for sinners while He was dying for their sin, but come on! Where do you draw the line?
9. They’re just as disconnected with God as the wounded soldier.
And they just don’t know how to say it.
Now… I need to tell you that I am who I am today in large part because of men and women in the Body of Christ who weren’t part of the cliché. Throughout my lifetime, they have walked in when the world (and church) walked out. They have shown me grace, held me accountable, and spoken truth into my life. They served me and let me serve them. They loved me unconditionally. And in the next post I’ll tell you what they did – and what they risked – to get this wounded soldier to a place of healing.
However, this short one is worth reading:
http://lifevesting.com/blog/2013/03/13/why-the-church-shoots-its-wounded/
If you're new here, you may want to subscribe to my RSS feed. Or you can select your feed type by clicking on the "Subscribe" button on the right. Thanks for visiting!
A few years ago I was having coffee with an old friend and colleague. I was in a pretty wounded state at the time, and felt compelled to tell him my story. He was compassionate, listened attentively, then asked, “How can I help?”
“I was thinking about visiting your church,” I said, “and just wanted you to know.”
“Well, I’ll be honest with you,” he replied. “We’re not much of a healing place.”
Wow. There it was. Translation: We’re more interested in fresh blood than spilled blood. But to be fair, his church was and is true to its mission as they perceive it. And at least he was kind enough to be honest.
For years I have heard the old saying, “The Christian army is the only army in the world that shoots its wounded.” Let me say right up front, that’s not accurate. If you really believe that, you’ve never been in a corporate “army” or a political one. The wounded get eliminated there all the time.
But the church is supposed to be different, right? We’re supposed to be trophies of grace, havens of love, lighthouses of hope and (make your own cliché here: [blank] of [blank]). So what’s up with that right foot of fellowship?
Defining “Its Own Wounded”
I guess we need to be on the same page here. Sometimes we use the word “wounded” to mean somebody who has been a victim of the sins of others. The good news here is that the church has a history of being more compassionate in those circumstances, at least for the most part.
“Wounded” in this case means someone who has been exposed to the enemy (the devil) and somehow has been defeated. In simplest terms, that usually means they’ve failed somehow. Little or big. Private or public. Wounded means you messed around and got yourself shot, and there’s nobody to blame but you.
But to be even more precise, this saying refers to its own wounded. We love to take in the world’s wounded or the devil’s wounded. We believe we have answers for that.
God’s wounded? That’s another story. And here are 9 reasons why:
1. It saves time and money.
I know that sounds crass and selfish, and I’ve never actually heard somebody say that. But let’s be honest. It’s a whole lot cheaper and quicker to read The Four Spiritual Laws to 20 people and get them in the front door than it is to do the dirty work of restoration and healing of one. Healing and restoration take time, and even in church world, time is money. With limited resources (money), we have to do the most good for the biggest number of people. I know what Jesus said about leaving the 99 and going after the one lost sheep, but Jesus didn’t have to deal with the competition down the street.
2. It makes the gospel harder to sell to the community.
Every time there’s another scandal or another embarrassment to the fellowship, it makes it that much harder to say to a lost and dying world, “Give your heart to Jesus and you can go to heaven when you die and be just like us until you get there.” Who wants to be like us when “us” is being a bad example?
After all, the gospel is only as big as the vehicle that carries it. Right?
3. Sometimes they have to pick sides.
This one’s awkward. Sometimes the wounds spread and involve others in the fellowship. Maybe a marriage gone sour or a business deal gone bad. And it isn’t fair to the congregation to have to choose who’s right or who to side with. But choose they will if they have to. (Hint: They don’t always choose the “victim.”)
I know Jesus prayed for unity and all that. But in the real world sometimes we have to choose the greater good.
4. They’re hurt.
Remember, the church isn’t a thing – it’s people. And even (self) righteous people get their feelings hurt by the failures of others. It hurts to feel betrayed, or embarrassed, or disappointed. I know that Jesus talked about forgiving seventy-times-seven times, but these feelings are real.
5. Pride
Paul said to the Galatians, “Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, so that you too will not be tempted” (Galatians 6:1).
Well, we looked to ourselves, and we would never be tempted to do what they did. That would never happen to us. And we don’t want to be guilty by association, either. We have an image to uphold.
6. Desire
Very few Christians get up on Sunday or Monday mornings hoping they can ignore, hurt, or reject another believer. But what they do want is a simple, easy life, with a relationship with God and His people that makes their lives even more simple and easy. They want answers to their questions, relief for their pain, and inspiration for their day. They don’t want their lives made more complicated by messed up saints. Anyway, isn’t that what professional help is for?
7. Fear
I used to have a dog named Eeyore. Like any dog he had his funny side and his barking side. I noticed something one day about him during one of his barking fits. He wasn’t barking because he was angry or threatening. He was barking because he was terrified. And he was trying to sound tough to keep the perceived threat away.
And that’s exactly why the Church sometimes “barks” at its wounded. The simple truth is, we’re scared. Scared to say the wrong thing. Scared of doing nothing at all. Scared mostly of being scared. So we bark instead.
8. They confuse forgiveness with approval.
Once I was part of a church that gave a baby shower for an unwed pregnant teen. Not everybody was pleased. One lady needed to vent, and I got to hear it. “What kind of message does this send?” I just listened as she went on about back in her day and all that, but my thought was, “I don’t know… but is a baby shower the place to pick that fight?”
The church has always had an awkward relationship with forgiveness because treating someone as if they had never sinned seems to be approving of the sin itself. I know that Jesus prayed for sinners while He was dying for their sin, but come on! Where do you draw the line?
9. They’re just as disconnected with God as the wounded soldier.
And they just don’t know how to say it.
Now… I need to tell you that I am who I am today in large part because of men and women in the Body of Christ who weren’t part of the cliché. Throughout my lifetime, they have walked in when the world (and church) walked out. They have shown me grace, held me accountable, and spoken truth into my life. They served me and let me serve them. They loved me unconditionally. And in the next post I’ll tell you what they did – and what they risked – to get this wounded soldier to a place of healing.
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Small Fish
Active Member
You will notice that this very person whom Paul spoke about here came back later on and was received back. You can read some commentaries on it here.
https://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/matthew-henry-complete/2-corinthians/2.html
Corinthians 2:5-11
5 But if any have caused grief, he hath not grieved me, but in part: that I may not overcharge you all.
6 Sufficient to such a man is this punishment, which was inflicted of many.
7 So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow.
8 Wherefore I beseech you that ye would confirm your love toward him.
9 For to this end also did I write, that I might know the proof of you, whether ye be obedient in all things.
10 To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ;
11 Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.
The best answer of course would be for everyone to serve God for real, but that has not happened and is unfortunately unlikely to happen. Men have, as always, come up with alternative ways to fix the underlying problems. As so often has been the case it is too little and/or too late.
And a great many have hoped in helping their desire to be accomplished. But alas, the law won't let us.
It's not an epidemic. It is the result of a life of sin. Our laws have made it worse because they don't execute the pedophile.
The church has made it worse because of bleeding hearts like yours. Just give them a hug, and understand them, and turn them over to someone else's kids to abuse. That is real love. That is the love of Christ, letting them continue to abuse other kids. How perverse.
Stranger
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