Selene
New Member
God pours his gifts on everyone - male or female, but to be a pastor is not a gift. It is a calling and only men are called to be pastors.101G said:
Female Pastors
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2 Selene, greeting in the name of the Lord JESUS Christ.
God pours his gifts on everyone - male or female, but to be a pastor is not a gift. It is a calling and only men are called to be pastors.
that's an old record, and it scratched to DEATH. literally, to DEATH. so are you saying God is respect of PERSON?, yes or no.
God pours his gifts on everyone - male or female, but to be a pastor is not a gift. It is a calling and only men are called to be pastors.
that's an old record, and it scratched to DEATH. literally, to DEATH. so are you saying God is respect of PERSON?, yes or no.
Selene
New Member
God respects everyone, but God has free will. He can choose whomever He wants. He chose Israel to be His chosen people, not any other nation. He chose David to be His anointed one, not David's brothers. He chose Issac, not Ishmael, and He chose Jacob, not Essau. Just because God chose someone and did not choose the other does not mean He did not respect the other. He respects all and even has a plan for all people. God's plan is that men be the Head of the house and ONLY men be the Head of the house. God's plan is also for men to be pastors and ONLY men to be pastors. He has a different plan for women.101G said:
2 Selene,
God is no "RESPECT OF PERSON". Ok sister, 1 Corinthians 12:7 "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal". 1 Corinthians 12:29 "Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?. 30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?. the answer is NO, neither males, nor females. if God choose, then he can choose a woman, or a male. but why box yourself in a corner, by saying God chose men only as "Pastors". if that's the case then God is not having free will in choosing to whom he wills to give the PASTORAL gift. and that's the violation of his word. if he chose men only, then his words is untrue. and I know that is not the case. so your conclusion is in error sister. boxing God in a corner is not right. sorry your words, your reasoning, and thoughts are rejected.
be blessed, I hope.
God is no "RESPECT OF PERSON". Ok sister, 1 Corinthians 12:7 "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal". 1 Corinthians 12:29 "Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?. 30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?. the answer is NO, neither males, nor females. if God choose, then he can choose a woman, or a male. but why box yourself in a corner, by saying God chose men only as "Pastors". if that's the case then God is not having free will in choosing to whom he wills to give the PASTORAL gift. and that's the violation of his word. if he chose men only, then his words is untrue. and I know that is not the case. so your conclusion is in error sister. boxing God in a corner is not right. sorry your words, your reasoning, and thoughts are rejected.
be blessed, I hope.
Selene
New Member
In that biblical verse, it is saying that God does not care whether the person is rich or poor (See Strong's biblical translation) or whether they are powerful or weak.101G said:
But God does respect everyone......respect in this case meaning that God holds us in high esteem. God views us in high esteem because we were made in His image and likeness. He found us to be so important that He sent His only begotten son to save us. He found us worthy of saving despite our sinfulness. There is a difference between knowing God and knowing ABOUT God.
By choosing men only as Pastors, God is showing His free will. By you choosing women as pastors, you are telling God that you know better than He does.
in Christ Jesus there is neither male or female. if you think this is only about salvation, God don't change he's the same yesterday, today, and today. so that want fly
Selene
New Member
God believes that all are equal as human beings, but that is as far as it goes. God created men and women different, and that is the truth. For example, only women can carry a baby in her womb and give birth. Men were not created to give birth. Being created different does not mean that they are not equal. It simply means that they were created different for specific roles. And a man's role is to be Head of the household and a pastor.101G said:
2 Selene,
#1. God believes that all are equal as human beings, but that is as far as it goes.
are you kidding, or trying to be funny, which one. LOOK at what you just said. that don't even make sense. Oh well, so you still put god in a box, he can only go so far. you as other unbelievers limited the HOLY ONE. I have to scratch my head on that one.
#2. God created men and women different, and that is the truth. For example, only women can carry a baby in her womb and give birth. Men were not created to give birth.
you're still in the flesh, carnal. God is spirit. get in the spirit. can a man or a woman beget someone in the spirit? Y/N.
#3. Being created different does not mean that they are not equal. It simply means that they were created different for specific roles. And a man role is to be Head of the household and a pastor".
now you just contradict yourself in what you said in #1. alright Selene let meet you where you are at. please give your description of what a pastor is.
and then please identify a female spirit,vs a male spirit. not according to the flesh, but according to the spirit. please tell me the difference.
be blessed I hope.
#1. God believes that all are equal as human beings, but that is as far as it goes.
are you kidding, or trying to be funny, which one. LOOK at what you just said. that don't even make sense. Oh well, so you still put god in a box, he can only go so far. you as other unbelievers limited the HOLY ONE. I have to scratch my head on that one.
#2. God created men and women different, and that is the truth. For example, only women can carry a baby in her womb and give birth. Men were not created to give birth.
you're still in the flesh, carnal. God is spirit. get in the spirit. can a man or a woman beget someone in the spirit? Y/N.
#3. Being created different does not mean that they are not equal. It simply means that they were created different for specific roles. And a man role is to be Head of the household and a pastor".
now you just contradict yourself in what you said in #1. alright Selene let meet you where you are at. please give your description of what a pastor is.
and then please identify a female spirit,vs a male spirit. not according to the flesh, but according to the spirit. please tell me the difference.
be blessed I hope.
Selene
New Member
I don't put God in a box. I know God.101G said:
It was God who also created the flesh. He created all things - flesh and spirit.#2. God created men and women different, and that is the truth. For example, only women can carry a baby in her womb and give birth. Men were not created to give birth.
you're still in the flesh, carnal. God is spirit. get in the spirit. can a man or a woman beget someone in the spirit? Y/N.
A pastor is a representative to Christ, who is Head of God's family (Church). Since Christ is a male, then only a male can represent Christ who is Head of the Church.
A human spirit identifies itself through the flesh. In other words, my spirit is female only because my flesh is female. Angels do not have any gender because they are spirits and never had any human flesh. In fact, angels are not even human. Some angels are even described as having an eagle's head or having an animal's body. God the Father also has no gender because He is pure spirit. God the Holy Spirit also does not have a gender because He is also pure spirit. It is only Jesus who has a gender because He has both a human and a divine nature.
2 my sister Selene, GINOLJC
A pastor is a representative to Christ, who is Head of God's family (Church). Since Christ is a male, then only a male can represent Christ who is Head of the Church.
show me scripture where the Pastor is the Head of God family. (THE CHURCH). now I warn you, Ephesians 1:22 "And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church", him being JESUS. and Ephesians 5:23 "For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body". and Colossians 1:18 "And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence". he here again is the Lord JESUS.
here's the warning. you put some mortal man as head over the Lord's church, then you have two heads. and that sacrilege.
sister Selene you need to understand the difference between a pastor and the shepherd.
#2 A human spirit identifies itself through the flesh. In other words, my spirit is female only because my flesh is female. Angels do not have any gender because they are spirits and never had any human flesh. In fact, angels are not even human. Some angels are even described as having an eagle's head or having an animal's body. God the Father also has no gender because He is pure spirit. God the Holy Spirit also does not have a gender because He is also pure spirit. It is only Jesus who has a gender because He has both a human and a divine nature.
NOW sister Selene. sister, sister, sister.
a. your statement. A human spirit identifies itself through the flesh. In other words, my spirit is female only because my flesh is female. Angels do not have any gender because they are spirits and never had any human flesh.
what is this angel gender then, Daniel 9:21 "Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation". did he have any flesh?. (see what the word MAN in this verse mean first).
b. then, "God the Holy Spirit also does not have a gender because "He" is also pure spirit".
sister Selene, you just said God does not have a gender, yet you say "HE"?. why is that, please explain why you gave God a gender?.
c. then you said this. "It is only Jesus who has a gender because He has both a human and a divine nature".
well is not JESUS GOD?. and you said God don't have a gender, please explain?.
be blessed.
A pastor is a representative to Christ, who is Head of God's family (Church). Since Christ is a male, then only a male can represent Christ who is Head of the Church.
show me scripture where the Pastor is the Head of God family. (THE CHURCH). now I warn you, Ephesians 1:22 "And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church", him being JESUS. and Ephesians 5:23 "For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body". and Colossians 1:18 "And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence". he here again is the Lord JESUS.
here's the warning. you put some mortal man as head over the Lord's church, then you have two heads. and that sacrilege.
sister Selene you need to understand the difference between a pastor and the shepherd.
#2 A human spirit identifies itself through the flesh. In other words, my spirit is female only because my flesh is female. Angels do not have any gender because they are spirits and never had any human flesh. In fact, angels are not even human. Some angels are even described as having an eagle's head or having an animal's body. God the Father also has no gender because He is pure spirit. God the Holy Spirit also does not have a gender because He is also pure spirit. It is only Jesus who has a gender because He has both a human and a divine nature.
NOW sister Selene. sister, sister, sister.
a. your statement. A human spirit identifies itself through the flesh. In other words, my spirit is female only because my flesh is female. Angels do not have any gender because they are spirits and never had any human flesh.
what is this angel gender then, Daniel 9:21 "Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation". did he have any flesh?. (see what the word MAN in this verse mean first).
b. then, "God the Holy Spirit also does not have a gender because "He" is also pure spirit".
sister Selene, you just said God does not have a gender, yet you say "HE"?. why is that, please explain why you gave God a gender?.
c. then you said this. "It is only Jesus who has a gender because He has both a human and a divine nature".
well is not JESUS GOD?. and you said God don't have a gender, please explain?.
be blessed.
Greeting in the name of the Lord JESUS.
to all who follow this topic.
Our sister Selene, brought up a good question. "A human spirit identifies itself through the flesh". that's a good interesting point that needs exploring. WHY AM I A MALE OR FEMALE?. but what caught my attention is this. she stated, "God the Holy Spirit also does not have a gender because He is also pure spirit". well now, if flesh make the spirit a male or female, (just saying on current information). then God must be MALE, because, clearly the bible say, 1 Timothy 3:16 "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory". so the flesh that Mary birth was MALE, and as stated God, the Holy Spirit is pure spirit, but by MANIFESTING in that flesh the GENDER of GOD is male. but now I have a QUESTION, if God, the Holy Spirit is MANIFESTED in the Flesh, and that flesh he manifested in was male. scripture, 1 Corinthians 12:7 "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal". HOLD IT, WAIT A MINUTE, is 1 Corinthians 12:7 saying that God the Holy Spirit, when he manifested in flesh be ye it male or female, that's his GENDER?. well now if that's true. then females can PASTOR without a doubt. because it is God the Holy Spirit who is in that flesh. for it is the Spirit who do the work. it's not you who speak in tongues, or interprets tongues, nor is it you the flesh, male or female, who do the working of miracles, nor you the flesh who do the healing. nor you the flesh who discerning of spirits. nor you the flesh, male or female, who have the word of wisdom, or the word of knowledge. (which is the PASTORAL GIFT). listen good, 1 Corinthians 12:11 "But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will". hear that my sister in Christ, "as he will". he, meaning GOD, the Holy Spirit. the only IMMORTAL spirit.
see my sister, your flesh is only a vessel whom God work through. for the scripture is true, Joel 2:28 "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions". see that flesh you was talking about. sons, (male flesh), daughters, (female flesh). now listen, "I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh". see how God qualified that flesh, "ALL". he qualified it by saying "Sons", and "Daughters". where there be no distinction. and those Spiritual Gifts are listed in 1 Corinthians 12. you see sister the Lord JESUS is the Holy Spirit, in YOU, and "I", I have nothing on you, nor you on me, it the SAME SPIRIT, NOT ANOTHER spirit, but the SAME, as the Greek say, G243 ,allos, the SAME Spirit who worketh ALL in ALL.
I hope you see this revelation.
be blessed.
to all who follow this topic.
Our sister Selene, brought up a good question. "A human spirit identifies itself through the flesh". that's a good interesting point that needs exploring. WHY AM I A MALE OR FEMALE?. but what caught my attention is this. she stated, "God the Holy Spirit also does not have a gender because He is also pure spirit". well now, if flesh make the spirit a male or female, (just saying on current information). then God must be MALE, because, clearly the bible say, 1 Timothy 3:16 "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory". so the flesh that Mary birth was MALE, and as stated God, the Holy Spirit is pure spirit, but by MANIFESTING in that flesh the GENDER of GOD is male. but now I have a QUESTION, if God, the Holy Spirit is MANIFESTED in the Flesh, and that flesh he manifested in was male. scripture, 1 Corinthians 12:7 "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal". HOLD IT, WAIT A MINUTE, is 1 Corinthians 12:7 saying that God the Holy Spirit, when he manifested in flesh be ye it male or female, that's his GENDER?. well now if that's true. then females can PASTOR without a doubt. because it is God the Holy Spirit who is in that flesh. for it is the Spirit who do the work. it's not you who speak in tongues, or interprets tongues, nor is it you the flesh, male or female, who do the working of miracles, nor you the flesh who do the healing. nor you the flesh who discerning of spirits. nor you the flesh, male or female, who have the word of wisdom, or the word of knowledge. (which is the PASTORAL GIFT). listen good, 1 Corinthians 12:11 "But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will". hear that my sister in Christ, "as he will". he, meaning GOD, the Holy Spirit. the only IMMORTAL spirit.
see my sister, your flesh is only a vessel whom God work through. for the scripture is true, Joel 2:28 "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions". see that flesh you was talking about. sons, (male flesh), daughters, (female flesh). now listen, "I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh". see how God qualified that flesh, "ALL". he qualified it by saying "Sons", and "Daughters". where there be no distinction. and those Spiritual Gifts are listed in 1 Corinthians 12. you see sister the Lord JESUS is the Holy Spirit, in YOU, and "I", I have nothing on you, nor you on me, it the SAME SPIRIT, NOT ANOTHER spirit, but the SAME, as the Greek say, G243 ,allos, the SAME Spirit who worketh ALL in ALL.
I hope you see this revelation.
be blessed.
Selene
New Member
Men and women were created in God's image, BUT in no way is God in man's image. God the Father is NEITHER male nor female. He is pure spirit in which there is no place for the difference between the sexes. But the respective "perfections" of man and woman reflect something of the infinite perfection of God: those of a mother and those of a father and husband.101G said:
Both God the Father and God the Holy Spirit does not have a gender. They are pure spirits. Also, when the Holy Spirit dwells in us, it does not destroy or take over our spiritual souls. We are God's temple in which the Holy Spirit dwells, but our bodies do not make the Holy Spirit male or female because the Holy Spirit is God.....the third person in the Holy Trinity. We are not the ones who change the Holy Spirit by giving Him a gender. It is the Holy Spirit who changes us by making us into new creatures, adopting us as His son or daughter. Jesus the eternal Begotten Son, however, do have a gender. He is male.
The body and spirit of man is one and a unity. The human person, created in the image of God, is a being at once corporeal and spiritual. The biblical account expresses this reality when it affirms that "then the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being" Man, whole and entire, is therefore willed by God. The unity of soul and body is so profound that one has to consider the soul to be the "form of the body." It is because of the spiritual soul that the body (made of matter) becomes a living human body. Therefore, spirit and matter in man are not two natures united, but rather their union forms a single nature. In Christianity, we do not see the body as a vessel like the Buddhists do. We see the body as being one and united with the spiritual soul.......just as Christ's body is one and united with his spiritual soul.
When Christ rose from the dead, notice that Christ rose in both body and spirit. He did not just rise in spirit and left his body behind. At the end on Christ's second coming, the resurrection of the body will also become a reality for all of us. Those who died before us will be reunited with their bodies.....but it will be in a glorified body like Christ. In the end, we will have a glorified body like our brother Jesus Christ.
1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
2 sister Selene, greeting in the name of the Lord JESUS the Christ.
#1. Men and women were created in God's image, BUT in no way is God in man's image. God the Father is NEITHER male nor female. He is pure spirit in which there is no place for the difference between the sexes. But the respective "perfections" of man and woman reflect something of the infinite perfection of God: those of a mother and those of a father and husband.
a. so since you said he is neither male nor female. why call God "he". and two, since he made both, but you're saying, both are not Spiritual equal. but the flesh have nothing to do with the Spirit actions, only to carry them out. so your statement is senseless.
b. But, but, but. the but don't have it.
the respective "perfections" of man and woman reflect something of the infinite perfection of God: those of a mother and those of a father and husband. our topic is about pastoring, it have nothing to do with your flesh as a Female, no my flesh as a Male. so that's nonsense. a female can drive a car just as well as a male. so that is senseless.
#2. Both God the Father and God the Holy Spirit does not have a gender. They are pure spirits. Also, when the Holy Spirit dwells in us, it does not destroy or take over our spiritual souls. We are God's temple in which the Holy Spirit dwells, but our bodies do not make the Holy Spirit male or female because the Holy Spirit is God.....the third person in the Holy Trinity. We are not the ones who change the Holy Spirit by giving Him a gender. It is the Holy Spirit who changes us by making us into new creatures, adopting us as His son or daughter. Jesus the eternal Begotten Son, however, do have a gender. He is male.
a. so, are you saying a Male is respected, over the Female, in SPIRITUAL GIFTS?. and two when you say both, that's Polytheism. I believe I better do a topic on that.
b. but Jesus is MALE, (as you say), but, you turn around and say, the Holy Spirit have no Gender. is not Jesus, the Holy Spirit in Flesh and blood?. yes, so your statement contradict itself. so that's nonsense again. I can't believe you are making those kinds of statements.
#3. The body and spirit of man is one and a unity. The human person, created in the image of God, is a being at once corporeal and spiritual. The biblical account expresses this reality when it affirms that "then the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being" Man, whole and entire, is therefore willed by God. The unity of soul and body is so profound that one has to consider the soul to be the "form of the body." It is because of the spiritual soul that the body (made of matter) becomes a living human body. Therefore, spirit and matter in man are not two natures united, but rather their union forms a single nature. In Christianity, we do not see the body as a vessel like the Buddhists do. We see the body as being one and united with the spiritual soul.......just as Christ's body is one and united with his spiritual soul.
a. The body and spirit of man is one and a unity. HOLD IT, you said God is pure Spirit, and man is made in God image. and two, how is God a unity when he's (as you said, pure spirit)?. especially a triune unity?. here you have Jesus in flesh, and (God) out of flesh, only pure Spirit. that's Polytheism at it's bests. since you said a body and spirit is a unity, please explain how God, as you said, is pure Spirit, and Jesus is Spirit in Flesh, and the Holy Spirit, (well is he in or out of flesh, or is he neither male or female). boy, oh, boy. you have three Spirits, and the bible clearly states that there is ONLY ONE SPIRIT. and remember we are made in God IMAGE, so we have three spirits?. I really want to hear this one.
b. The unity of soul and body is so profound that one has to consider the soul to be the "form of the body." It is because of the spiritual soul that the body (made of matter) becomes a living human body. Therefore, spirit and matter in man are not two natures united, but rather their union forms a single nature. NOW SISTER DO YOU KNOW WHAT YOU JUST SAID?. I doubt it. if you will Sister put that over to the topic "GODHEAD" if you will, and that I'll answer.
c. In Christianity, we do not see the body as a vessel like the Buddhists do. Now what do the Buddhists have to do with Pastoring?. NOTHING. Oh well.
#4. When Christ rose from the dead, notice that Christ rose in both body and spirit. He did not just rise in spirit and left his body behind. At the end on Christ's second coming, the resurrection of the body will also become a reality for all of us. Those who died before us will be reunited with their bodies.....but it will be in a glorified body like Christ. In the end, we will have a glorified body like our brother Jesus Christ.
a. this again have nothing to do with pastoring. but since you brought it up. I have a question. is the body that rose is the SAME body that was birth, Yes or no please. since you said, "He did not just rise in spirit and left his body behind".
#5. 1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
well finally something you posted that is true. Sons here don't mean "MALES". if that's your take on sons.
now sister Selene, after all that mom bo jum bo.......... question do God, JESUS, the ETERNAL Spirit manifest his Gifts in males and females, YES or NO please. do answer the question.
if no give scripture for this.
if YES, is not the manifestation of the gifts listed in 1 Corinthians 12:7 "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit". is for females also. YES, so how you missed this revelation?, well.
and look at the definition of "MAN", in verse 7 and see what it means. see for yourself.
be bless, I hope.
#1. Men and women were created in God's image, BUT in no way is God in man's image. God the Father is NEITHER male nor female. He is pure spirit in which there is no place for the difference between the sexes. But the respective "perfections" of man and woman reflect something of the infinite perfection of God: those of a mother and those of a father and husband.
a. so since you said he is neither male nor female. why call God "he". and two, since he made both, but you're saying, both are not Spiritual equal. but the flesh have nothing to do with the Spirit actions, only to carry them out. so your statement is senseless.
b. But, but, but. the but don't have it.
the respective "perfections" of man and woman reflect something of the infinite perfection of God: those of a mother and those of a father and husband. our topic is about pastoring, it have nothing to do with your flesh as a Female, no my flesh as a Male. so that's nonsense. a female can drive a car just as well as a male. so that is senseless.
#2. Both God the Father and God the Holy Spirit does not have a gender. They are pure spirits. Also, when the Holy Spirit dwells in us, it does not destroy or take over our spiritual souls. We are God's temple in which the Holy Spirit dwells, but our bodies do not make the Holy Spirit male or female because the Holy Spirit is God.....the third person in the Holy Trinity. We are not the ones who change the Holy Spirit by giving Him a gender. It is the Holy Spirit who changes us by making us into new creatures, adopting us as His son or daughter. Jesus the eternal Begotten Son, however, do have a gender. He is male.
a. so, are you saying a Male is respected, over the Female, in SPIRITUAL GIFTS?. and two when you say both, that's Polytheism. I believe I better do a topic on that.
b. but Jesus is MALE, (as you say), but, you turn around and say, the Holy Spirit have no Gender. is not Jesus, the Holy Spirit in Flesh and blood?. yes, so your statement contradict itself. so that's nonsense again. I can't believe you are making those kinds of statements.
#3. The body and spirit of man is one and a unity. The human person, created in the image of God, is a being at once corporeal and spiritual. The biblical account expresses this reality when it affirms that "then the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being" Man, whole and entire, is therefore willed by God. The unity of soul and body is so profound that one has to consider the soul to be the "form of the body." It is because of the spiritual soul that the body (made of matter) becomes a living human body. Therefore, spirit and matter in man are not two natures united, but rather their union forms a single nature. In Christianity, we do not see the body as a vessel like the Buddhists do. We see the body as being one and united with the spiritual soul.......just as Christ's body is one and united with his spiritual soul.
a. The body and spirit of man is one and a unity. HOLD IT, you said God is pure Spirit, and man is made in God image. and two, how is God a unity when he's (as you said, pure spirit)?. especially a triune unity?. here you have Jesus in flesh, and (God) out of flesh, only pure Spirit. that's Polytheism at it's bests. since you said a body and spirit is a unity, please explain how God, as you said, is pure Spirit, and Jesus is Spirit in Flesh, and the Holy Spirit, (well is he in or out of flesh, or is he neither male or female). boy, oh, boy. you have three Spirits, and the bible clearly states that there is ONLY ONE SPIRIT. and remember we are made in God IMAGE, so we have three spirits?.
I really want to hear this one. b. The unity of soul and body is so profound that one has to consider the soul to be the "form of the body." It is because of the spiritual soul that the body (made of matter) becomes a living human body. Therefore, spirit and matter in man are not two natures united, but rather their union forms a single nature. NOW SISTER DO YOU KNOW WHAT YOU JUST SAID?. I doubt it. if you will Sister put that over to the topic "GODHEAD" if you will, and that I'll answer.
c. In Christianity, we do not see the body as a vessel like the Buddhists do. Now what do the Buddhists have to do with Pastoring?. NOTHING. Oh well.
#4. When Christ rose from the dead, notice that Christ rose in both body and spirit. He did not just rise in spirit and left his body behind. At the end on Christ's second coming, the resurrection of the body will also become a reality for all of us. Those who died before us will be reunited with their bodies.....but it will be in a glorified body like Christ. In the end, we will have a glorified body like our brother Jesus Christ.
a. this again have nothing to do with pastoring. but since you brought it up. I have a question. is the body that rose is the SAME body that was birth, Yes or no please. since you said, "He did not just rise in spirit and left his body behind".
#5. 1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
well finally something you posted that is true. Sons here don't mean "MALES". if that's your take on sons.
now sister Selene, after all that mom bo jum bo.......... question do God, JESUS, the ETERNAL Spirit manifest his Gifts in males and females, YES or NO please. do answer the question.
if no give scripture for this.
if YES, is not the manifestation of the gifts listed in 1 Corinthians 12:7 "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit". is for females also. YES, so how you missed this revelation?, well.
and look at the definition of "MAN", in verse 7 and see what it means. see for yourself.
be bless, I hope.
Selene
New Member
God is called a "he" because God is a person or a being despite the fact that He is neither male nor female....and a person cannot be called an "it." I never said that the flesh has nothing to do with the Spirit's action. I have no idea where you got that.101G said:
There are some things that men cannot do and females cannot do. Men cannot carry a baby nor give birth to a baby. Men and women were created by God differently to fulfill their respective roles in life. Men and women do not have the same roles.
No, that is not polytheism. There are three persons in one God - the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. All three are one, but all three are also distinct from one another. For example, only the Son has a human and divine nature.a. The body and spirit of man is one and a unity. HOLD IT, you said God is pure Spirit, and man is made in God image. and two, how is God a unity when he's (as you said, pure spirit)?. especially a triune unity?. here you have Jesus in flesh, and (God) out of flesh, only pure Spirit. that's Polytheism at it's bests. since you said a body and spirit is a unity, please explain how God, as you said, is pure Spirit, and Jesus is Spirit in Flesh, and the Holy Spirit, (well is he in or out of flesh, or is he neither male or female). boy, oh, boy. you have three Spirits, and the bible clearly states that there is ONLY ONE SPIRIT. and remember we are made in God IMAGE, so we have three spirits?.
I already answered that question. I already told you that God gives His gifts to men and women, but pastoring is not a gift. It's a calling, which God only calls men to.
2 my sister in Christ, Selene, greeting.
#1. There are some things that men cannot do and females cannot do. Men cannot carry a baby nor give birth to a baby. Men and women were created by God differently to fulfill their respective roles in life. Men and women do not have the same roles.
a. There are some things that men cannot do and females cannot do. that is true. but can men and women preach, teach, pastor?. yes these things they BOTH can do. so what's the point here?.
b. Men cannot carry a baby nor give birth to a baby. WELL I DIDN'T KNOW THAT. WHAT A REVELATION, WOW!.
c. Men and women were created by God differently to fulfill their respective roles in life. Men and women do not have the same roles.
are these roles only limited to the flesh, or the spirit as well?. ANOTHER REVELATION, sister you're on a roll. ^_^
#2. No, that is not polytheism. There are three persons in one God - the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. All three are one, but all three are also distinct from one another. For example, only the Son has a human and divine nature.
a. Now, you said that GOD is pure Spirit. but yet Jesus have flesh, (what wrong with your statement, "pure spirit") . and all three are distinct from one another. that's three gods, Oh yes that's polytheism in it's PUREST FORM.
b. For example, only the Son has a human and divine nature.
if Jesus is one of your person in your trinity, and you said God is pure, hear it again, "PURE", Spirit, then your statement is not "PURE". because flesh is not spirit. see your ERROR?.
#3. I already answered that question.
if so give scripture please.
sister Selene. just STOP and THINK for a minute. Jesus give gifts to men and women. and he's no respecter of person. how hard is that?.
the definition of "MAN", in verse 7 of 1 Corinthians 12, is this MALE only, y or n?. please answer, thanks.
#1. There are some things that men cannot do and females cannot do. Men cannot carry a baby nor give birth to a baby. Men and women were created by God differently to fulfill their respective roles in life. Men and women do not have the same roles.
a. There are some things that men cannot do and females cannot do. that is true. but can men and women preach, teach, pastor?. yes these things they BOTH can do. so what's the point here?.
b. Men cannot carry a baby nor give birth to a baby. WELL I DIDN'T KNOW THAT. WHAT A REVELATION, WOW!.
c. Men and women were created by God differently to fulfill their respective roles in life. Men and women do not have the same roles.
are these roles only limited to the flesh, or the spirit as well?. ANOTHER REVELATION, sister you're on a roll. ^_^
#2. No, that is not polytheism. There are three persons in one God - the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. All three are one, but all three are also distinct from one another. For example, only the Son has a human and divine nature.
a. Now, you said that GOD is pure Spirit. but yet Jesus have flesh, (what wrong with your statement, "pure spirit") . and all three are distinct from one another. that's three gods, Oh yes that's polytheism in it's PUREST FORM.
b. For example, only the Son has a human and divine nature.
if Jesus is one of your person in your trinity, and you said God is pure, hear it again, "PURE", Spirit, then your statement is not "PURE". because flesh is not spirit. see your ERROR?.
#3. I already answered that question.
if so give scripture please.
sister Selene. just STOP and THINK for a minute. Jesus give gifts to men and women. and he's no respecter of person. how hard is that?.
the definition of "MAN", in verse 7 of 1 Corinthians 12, is this MALE only, y or n?. please answer, thanks.
Selene
New Member
Nope. Not according to God's plan.
question sister, is it God plan is to give to the male only the spiritual gifts listed in 1 Corinthians 12?. y or n.
question sister, is it God plan is to give to the male only the spiritual gifts listed in 1 Corinthians 12?. y or n.
Pasted articles are studiously ignored. A spirit of rebellion seeks to make women pastors when God has not ordained such a role for women at any time in history, most particularly in the creation of the levitical priesthood and the commissioning of the Church.101G said:2 This Vale Of Tears
No it isn't. When the New Testament speaks about leadership roles, it talks about specific positions such as apostles, bishop, or presbyter. It doesn't talk about somebody having the gift of pastoring or any such nonsense. Bishops were required to be men "married to one wife" and presbyters (priests) were appointed by bishops. The Church from the beginning had a formal authority structure beginning with the 12 apostles chosen by Christ, though one of them died and a replacement was elected. Nowhere do you see in the New Testament or the early church females being appointed as pastors. It was a concept utterly alien to the early Christians.
But historical context is evidently unimportant to you as you attempt to wrest out of the Bible affirmation of your errant beliefs. I have no cure for your recalcitrance.
#1. Pastoring is a gift. Jeremiah 3:15 "And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding". 1 Corinthians 12:7 "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 1 Corinthians 12:8 "For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit.
a word of wisdom is "UNDERSTANDING", Wisdom: [ 2,,G5428, phronesis ] "understanding, prudence". and a word of knowledge is "KNOWLEDGE". Just as God said in Jeremiah 3:15, re-read it. so Pastoring is a gift.
now for your PASTOR as an appointment. lets see, 1 Corinthians 12:28 "And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues".
that word "SET" here in 1 Corinthians 12:28 is the Greek word, G5087 τίθημι tithemi (tith'-ay-mee) v.
1. to place (properly, in a passive or horizontal posture)
{in the widest application, literally and figuratively; differs from G2476, which properly denotes an upright and active position, while G2749 is properly reflexive and utterly prostrate}
[a prolonged form of a primary theo theh'-o (which is used only as alternate in certain tenses)]
KJV: + advise, appoint, bow, commit, conceive, give, X kneel down, lay (aside, down, up), make, ordain, purpose, put, set (forth), settle, sink down
Compare: G2476, G2749
there's our Words, "ORDAIN", and "APPOINT". so where is your word "PASTOR". notice GOD "set" appoint, or Ordain, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues". so where is your word "PASTOR". remember the word Pastor is another word for BISHOP, and OVERSER. well?.
************************************************************************
2 trail of tears, greeting in the name of the Lord JESUS Christ.
I have notice you haven't answered 1 Corinthians 12:28. fear not, your Pastor, the "WORK" of the Bishop, the General "overseer ship" is there within 1 Corinthians 12:28. but it is Spiritually hidden, and one need Spiritual eyes to see it. did you not know that an apostle is a gifted Pastor/Bishop/Overseer?. as well as Prophets are Pastors, as well as teachers, are Pastors. for Pastoring is a gift. well lets see it. the apostle Peter. 1 Peter 5:1 "The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed. 2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind".
Peter said that he was an Elder, what was the Elder to do?
#1. Feed the flock of God. who do this. remember Jeremiah 3:15 "And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding". can Peter appointment as a Pastor be confirm, yes. John 21:16 "He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
#2. taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind. who do these things?, well lets see, 1 Timothy 3:1 "This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. 2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; 3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous". that word "oversight" tell us that it is the Bishop. it's the Greek word, G1983 ἐπισκοπέω episkopeo (ep-ee-skop-eh'-o) v.
1. to oversee, inspect
2. (by implication) to beware
[from G1909 and G4648]
KJV: look diligently, take the oversight
So hence the Bishop, the overseer is the "Work", or the "Deed", and the gift to do this deed is the gift of PASTORING. to feed. for there is no word for the OFFICE, but its a "work", or "DEED". now notice the Bishop is to TEACH.
what about the apostle Paul, was he a Pastor/Bishop/overseer/Teacher/Prophet?, Yes.
#1. as a Prophet: 1 Corinthians 13:1 "Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing". Prophets Prophesies, or preach the GOSPEL. Prophets, to declare, by or as if by divine inspiration speak God mind". ,G4394, propheteia signifies the speaking forth of the mind and counsel of God". O.T. prophets foretold of what was coming. now that which was foretold is here. no longer a need to "foretell". now is the time to tell, or to speak.
#2. as a Pastor/Bishop/Overseer: same verse. 1 Corinthians 13:2 " And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing". there it is, the pastoral "GIFT", understanding and Knowledge is the Pastoral gift. (see Jeremiah 3:15 again).
#3. as a Teacher: 1 Corinthians 4:17 "For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church".
so we see the apostle, in a different light. as prophets, Pastor/Bishop/Overseer, and teachers. this "WORK" and the gift to do the work is called Pastor gift. but not all are apostles, not all are prophets, and not all are teachers.
and this, and these "Gifts" are for men and women. How do we know this?. the bible, God word say so. Joel 2:28 "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions". God gifts will be poured out on all flesh, including "women", "Daughters as Joel said. and these Gifts was poured out on the day of Pentecost. and How do we know this. the apostle Peter in God word said so. Acts 2:16 "But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel. 17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy (the gift of Pastor), and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: 18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: 19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: 20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: 21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved". so go back and read Joel 2:28 & 29 for your self and see.
God, the Lord JESUS promise that his spirit will be poured out on both "Sons", and "daughters". is God a respecter of person?, NO, and I say again, NO. he's not a respecter of PERSON. now if one have a problem with that, take it up with the Lord JESUS. whom you suppose to serve, and "OBEY". so lets get to obeying,
be blessed.
a. Pasted articles are studiously ignored.
ok, see ya.
b. A spirit of rebellion seeks to make women pastors when God has not ordained such a role for women at any time in history, most particularly in the creation of the levitical priesthood and the commissioning of the Church.
c. the levitical priesthood?. Hebrews 7:11 "If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?". LOL, boy oh, boy. 1 Peter 2:5 "Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, (I guessed thar eliminate you), to offer up spiritual sacrifices, (by, by goats, and bulls, and lambs), acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. 6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. 7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, 8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.(you might want to read that again). 9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: 10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
be blessed, I hope.
ok, see ya.
b. A spirit of rebellion seeks to make women pastors when God has not ordained such a role for women at any time in history, most particularly in the creation of the levitical priesthood and the commissioning of the Church.
c. the levitical priesthood?. Hebrews 7:11 "If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?". LOL, boy oh, boy. 1 Peter 2:5 "Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, (I guessed thar eliminate you), to offer up spiritual sacrifices, (by, by goats, and bulls, and lambs), acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. 6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. 7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, 8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient:
whereunto also they were appointed.(you might want to read that again). 9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: 10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.be blessed, I hope.
marksman
My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
I haven't read every post but enough to get the gist of what is being argued.
Where most go wrong is that they interpret scripture according to what is happening in their church or denomination. By way of example I was told that the passages in Timothy and Titus about Elders means the pastor because that is what their denomination taught them to justify unbiblical pastors.
To lay a foundation, nowhere in scripture will you find a pastor, male or female leading a church. The only time the term pastor (shepherd) is used is in Ephesians 4:11 along with that of an apostle, prophet, evangelist and teacher.
None of these are positions they are a ministry and nowhere does it indicate that the people with these ministries lead the church or have a title.
There are 25 verses in the New Testament that talks about leadership and the only three ministries mentioned are the apostle, the prophet and the Elder. Not once is a shepherd mentioned.
You will find apostles and prophets mentioned in Acts but not in the letters. They refer to Elders only.
These 25 verses all use the same Greek words which mean male and older men chronologically so young men cannot be Elders because Elder means older men chronologically and women cannot be Elders. In those days, a young man was someone who had not reached the age of 40.
Now, that should not surprise us as it says one of the qualifications for Eldership was that they rule their household well. In those days, men ruled the household, not women. If the husband died, the tradition was that the eldest son stepped up and took responsibility for the household.
The ministry of an Elder encompassed that of oversight, teaching, shepherding and correction and it was always Elders plural, not one man over everyone else.
When you realise that the five ministries in Ephesians are not leadership positions in the church, then anyone can fulfill those ministries. You will note that Paul, the apostle when he visited a church, he came along side the Elders. He did not take over from them or tell them what to do. He supported and encouraged them and operated according to his apostolic ministry.
An Elder can have a shepherding ministry but that does not make him the leader of the church. He is in leadership because he is one of the Elders who happens to have a ministry of shepherding.
The same as an Elder who has the ministry of teaching, which does not make him the leader of the church. He is in leadership with other Elders and happens to have a ministry of teaching.
As for being paid to lead the church, it is an emphatic no. I realise that some people use the verse that says Elders (not pastors) who rule well and teach are worthy of double honour as meaning they get twice the wages, but such an interpretation is untenable as the same word is used in terms of giving honour to Jesus, so that would mean that we would have to pay Jesus double wages.
So if you are talking about a female pastor leading the church the answer is no the same as if you talk about a male pastor leading the church the answer is no again. In fact, if you are talking about any pastor leading the church the answer is no.
If you want a church to exercise biblical leadership you need a plurality of unpaid older men who rule their household well (meaning married) and who may have a ministry of shepherding or teaching and it is interesting to note that the Elders were servants not lords. They didn't sit at the top table. They made sure that everyone was served before they sat down themselves.
Alongside them you will have people who have the five ministries of Ephesians who are not the leaders of the church but fulfil an important role building up the body of Christ, preparing them for ministry and bringing them into unity. Because there is no specification of gender in this case, I believe anyone is a candidate for these ministries but no one can assume them, they are given by Christ and if they are not you don't have a ministry of this kind. All you are doing is trying to have one of these ministries.
In all probability the reason why the church is not being built up, why they are not being prepared for ministry and why it is disunited is due to the fact of unbiblical leadership especially as it does not say in scripture that God will build his church whatever way we do things.
Where most go wrong is that they interpret scripture according to what is happening in their church or denomination. By way of example I was told that the passages in Timothy and Titus about Elders means the pastor because that is what their denomination taught them to justify unbiblical pastors.
To lay a foundation, nowhere in scripture will you find a pastor, male or female leading a church. The only time the term pastor (shepherd) is used is in Ephesians 4:11 along with that of an apostle, prophet, evangelist and teacher.
None of these are positions they are a ministry and nowhere does it indicate that the people with these ministries lead the church or have a title.
There are 25 verses in the New Testament that talks about leadership and the only three ministries mentioned are the apostle, the prophet and the Elder. Not once is a shepherd mentioned.
You will find apostles and prophets mentioned in Acts but not in the letters. They refer to Elders only.
These 25 verses all use the same Greek words which mean male and older men chronologically so young men cannot be Elders because Elder means older men chronologically and women cannot be Elders. In those days, a young man was someone who had not reached the age of 40.
Now, that should not surprise us as it says one of the qualifications for Eldership was that they rule their household well. In those days, men ruled the household, not women. If the husband died, the tradition was that the eldest son stepped up and took responsibility for the household.
The ministry of an Elder encompassed that of oversight, teaching, shepherding and correction and it was always Elders plural, not one man over everyone else.
When you realise that the five ministries in Ephesians are not leadership positions in the church, then anyone can fulfill those ministries. You will note that Paul, the apostle when he visited a church, he came along side the Elders. He did not take over from them or tell them what to do. He supported and encouraged them and operated according to his apostolic ministry.
An Elder can have a shepherding ministry but that does not make him the leader of the church. He is in leadership because he is one of the Elders who happens to have a ministry of shepherding.
The same as an Elder who has the ministry of teaching, which does not make him the leader of the church. He is in leadership with other Elders and happens to have a ministry of teaching.
As for being paid to lead the church, it is an emphatic no. I realise that some people use the verse that says Elders (not pastors) who rule well and teach are worthy of double honour as meaning they get twice the wages, but such an interpretation is untenable as the same word is used in terms of giving honour to Jesus, so that would mean that we would have to pay Jesus double wages.
So if you are talking about a female pastor leading the church the answer is no the same as if you talk about a male pastor leading the church the answer is no again. In fact, if you are talking about any pastor leading the church the answer is no.
If you want a church to exercise biblical leadership you need a plurality of unpaid older men who rule their household well (meaning married) and who may have a ministry of shepherding or teaching and it is interesting to note that the Elders were servants not lords. They didn't sit at the top table. They made sure that everyone was served before they sat down themselves.
Alongside them you will have people who have the five ministries of Ephesians who are not the leaders of the church but fulfil an important role building up the body of Christ, preparing them for ministry and bringing them into unity. Because there is no specification of gender in this case, I believe anyone is a candidate for these ministries but no one can assume them, they are given by Christ and if they are not you don't have a ministry of this kind. All you are doing is trying to have one of these ministries.
In all probability the reason why the church is not being built up, why they are not being prepared for ministry and why it is disunited is due to the fact of unbiblical leadership especially as it does not say in scripture that God will build his church whatever way we do things.
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