Female Pastors

[marksman]

I can't see how you can be so blind. did you really read the OP. what is the first gift on the Spiritual list in 1 Corinthians 12:8. the Pastoral GIFT,

​The first gift is the word of wisdom. It does not mention shepherds.

this gift of God is clearly seen in Jeremiah 3:15 "And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding".

[SIZE=14.399999618530273px]Pray tell me, how does this verse have anything to do with 1 Cor 12:8?[/SIZE]

and promised in Joel 2:28 & 29 "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions. 29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit".

Once again, these verses do not mention shepherds. They are referring to the supernatural outpouring of the Holy Spirit.

Selene prophets PREACH, and is ORDAIN in the church, see I Corinthians 12:28.

They don't preach. They prophesy that is why they are called prophets.

and this out pouring happen on the day of Pentecost. Acts 2:4 "And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance".

Which has nothing to do with a person's calling as a shepherd.

this gift is found on the list, verse10 " To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy;(meaning to preach), to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues"

As I said, prophecy does not mean preaching and claiming it does indicates that you are not cognisant of the activities of the Spirit through the ministry gifts. You are putting your own spin on them.

​Once again, there is no reference whatsoever to the calling of a shepherd.

and the apostle Peter confirmed it, Acts 2:16 "But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel". and Joel said these GIFTS was for men and women. I don't see how you can charge the Lord JESUS with "RESPECT OF PERSON".

Sad to say you are the one that is doing the changing as these relate to the Gifts of the Holy Spirit NOT the gifts of the ascended Christ.

With all due respects brother, you are making the verses say what you want them to say and ignoring the fact that they doesn't say what you are saying they do say.

 

[RealFaith]

I find that this topic always gets a lot of attention. In the Bible, I see nowhere that allows women to be pastors, just like God never had female priests in the Old Testament. Wake up sleeping Christians, these are the last days. The church will fall away before the Antichrist is revealed. The church is filled with wolves, liberals, and hypocrites who are distorting God's word in favour of secularism. Most people couldn't care less what God's word says. They care more about their secular views. These kind of debates usually don't do any good because if somebody doesn't care about what the Bible truly says, it's a waste of time trying to convince them otherwise. We should be focused on getting through the narrow gate.

 

[Angelina]

In some Churches a woman can be called a Pastor associate if her husband is a Pastor. She can then minister in Church under her husband's mantle. If he has a to go away for some reason, he can and usually does leave the Church running up to his wife as his helpmate. I think that it is an oxymoron to see some Churches who hold positions as women Pastors but cannot meet with their local committee to discuss things pertaining to their Church because they are women??? why have women Pastors in the first place if they cannot fulfill their position due to doctrinal technicalities? :huh: that's just crazy...

 

[Selene]

In some Churches a woman can be called a Pastor associate if her husband is a Pastor. She can then minister in Church under her husband's mantle. If he has a to go away for some reason, he can and usually does leave the Church running up to his wife as his helpmate. I think that it is an oxymoron to see some Churches who hold positions as women Pastors but cannot meet with their local committee to discuss things pertaining to their Church because they are women??? why have women Pastors in the first place if they cannot fulfill their position due to doctrinal technicalities? :huh: that's just crazy...

A woman cannot be a pastor because she is not the head of the household. She can assist a Pastor, but she is not a pastor nor does she take the title of Pastor. That title belongs only to the man because the man is the head of the household. The husband is the Head of the house just as Christ is the head of the Church. The husband represents Christ, and the wife represents the Church. Christ is the bridegroom and the Church is the bride.

 

[Angelina]

Well that might be in your world but it does not exist in mine. A Pastor's wife can be considered a Pastor and his helpmeet when he is absent. This is something that he has authority to do as a Pastor of a Church. The Church is not the bride, the Holy City Jerusalem is the bride and we are it's citizens along with all Jewish believers in Christ...good try anyway... ^_^

 

[Selene]

Well that might be in your world but it does not exist in mine. A Pastor's wife can be considered a Pastor and his helpmeet when he is absent. This is something that he has authority to do as a Pastor of a Church. The Church is not the bride, the Holy City Jerusalem is the bride and we are it's citizens along with all Jewish believers in Christ...good try anyway... ^_^

The wife can be the Pastor's helpmate, but she should not take the title "Pastor." That title belongs to her husband.

 

[Angelina]

They are one just as the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are one - it is the same mystery relating to Christ and his Church and - the Bride and the Bridegroom ^_^

 

[Selene]

They are one just as the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are one - it is the same mystery relating to Christ and his Church and - the Bride and the Bridegroom ^_^

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one, but they are also distinct from one other. In the same way, husbands and wives are one, but they are distinct from one other. The husband is the head.....and the wife is not. She cannot take the title "Pastor." That title belongs only to her husband.

 

[Angelina]

The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are indeed distinct from each other but they hold the same authority

Bless ya!

 

[Selene]

The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are indeed distinct from each other but they hold the same authority

Bless ya!

1 Corinthians 15:27-28 For he "has put everything under his feet." [fn] Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

John 14:28 You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.


God is three persons in one God. He is not one person in one God. In John 14, Jesus says that He is going to be with the Father, and that He and the Father will be sending the Holy Spirit to the Apostles while They remain in heaven. These things would be really hard to do if the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit were just one person, not three. The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son. The Son does not proceed from the Holy Spirit nor does the Father proceed from the Holy Spirit. Each person in the Holy Trinity has their own title and role. In other words, it was the Son who died on the cross. It was not the Father or the Holy Spirit who died on the cross.

It is the same with husbands and wives. The wife is not to take the title and role of her husband. The husband is the head. The wife has her own title and role. She is the "helper." Furthermore, St. Paul did not compare husbands and wives to the Holy Trinity. He compared husbands and wives to Christ and His Church because that is the appropriate analogy. The husband is the one to lead and the wife is the one to follow her husband. In the same way, Christ is the one to lead, and the Church is the one to follow Christ, her husband.

 

[Angelina]

I'm not questioning the Trinity [although I think it prolly needs to be looked at more carefully] I said they have the same authority...

 

[Selene]

I'm not questioning the Trinity [although I think it prolly needs to be looked at more carefully] I said they have the same authority...

St. Paul did not compare husbands and wives to the Holy Trinity. He compared husbands and wives to Christ and His Church because that is the appropriate analogy. The husband is the one to lead and the wife is the one to follow her husband. In the same way, Christ is the one to lead, and the Church is the one to follow Christ. Because St. Paul compared husbands and wives to Christ and His Church, then husbands and wives do not have the same authority. The Church does not have the same authority as her Head (Christ) who is also her husband. The wife also does not have the same authority as her husband. The Bible clearly says that the husband is the Head.

 

[RealFaith]

The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are indeed distinct from each other but they hold the same authority

Bless ya!

Not true! Jesus said "The Father is greater than I" (John 14:28). The wife does not hold the same authority as the husband. The spirit of feminism and Jezebel should be resisted. Unfortunately it has already penetrated many churches. Whether or not you agree with me, which you probably don't, it cannot be denied that modern day Christianity (or churchianity) has a real problem with divorce. Obviously husbands and wives are not obeying their roles, otherwise divorce wouldn't be so high. When a Christian woman thinks she has the same authority in the household and in the church as her husband or pastor, she is not submitting to the word of God. You can deny it all you wish, but deep down in your heart of hearts you know that the scriptures don't give wives the same authority as their husbands. Why? Because the husband is responsible for his family. I really wish Christian women would resist the spirit of feminism and Jezebel and submit to the word of God.

Peace

 

[HammerStone]

John 14:28 reveals only part of the relationship that the Son has with the Father. So, just quoting that verse is not exactly the full picture.

Matthew 28:18
Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me."

 

[RealFaith]

John 14:28 reveals only part of the relationship that the Son has with the Father. So, just quoting that verse is not exactly the full picture.

Matthew 28:18
Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me."

Okay, then here's another verse for you:

"But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ," (1 Cor. 11:3).

Obviously God the Father is the head of Jesus. Likewise, the husband is the head of the wife. I know this hurts the pride of Western feminism, but it's what the word of God says.

 

[Angelina]

I have split my post from this topic as I was that it was a topic in itself and it also keep the O/P on track. For those interested...here is the link

split from "Feamle Pastors" was he always the Son or did he become the Son on our behalf ?
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/18767-split-from-feamle-pastors-was-he-always-the-son-or-did-he-become-the-son-on-our-behalf/

 

[marksman]

The spirit of feminism and Jezebel should be resisted...... I really wish Christian women would resist the spirit of feminism and Jezebel and submit to the word of God.

Whilst I realise that they are not right about everything, my time with the Brethren Church was made richer by the godly women that were part of the congregation. There was a richness to their demeanour and character which I can only assume was the product of following the word of God as the men did with a plurality of Elders, none of whom were paid.

This meant that there was no jockeying for position, power or praise.

If all the churches followed this route, there would be a lot more humility, servant-hood and a lot less kingdom climbing. I cringe when I hear some of the reasons to justify paid pastors which you will not find anywhere in scripture, let alone female pastors leading the church.

When I was studying at university and got involved in student politics, Jezebel raised her ugly head and even threatened to kill me in the election for the Student Union. There is no difference between this one and those in the church. Their goal is control and domination. They just use different language.

Strong women in the church will be one of the reasons for its downfall.

Selene said - God pours his gifts on everyone - male or female, but to be a pastor is not a gift. It is a calling and only men are called to be pastors.

I would dispute this as the verses in Ephesians 4:11 which talks about the gift of shepherding gives no indication that these five gifts are given to men only.

Where you Selene and others go wrong is equating the gift of shepherding with leadership. Not once in the whole of the NT is there any reference to a person who had been given the gift of shepherding being the leader of a church.

There are however 25 verses that refer to the leadership of the church and they include Apostles, Prophets and ELDERS. Not one mentions shepherds. If the shepherds were the leaders of the NT church, why was it they were never included in the leadership verses?

 

[Selene]

I would dispute this as the verses in Ephesians 4:11 which talks about the gift of shepherding gives no indication that these five gifts are given to men only.

Where you Selene and others go wrong is equating the gift of shepherding with leadership. Not once in the whole of the NT is there any reference to a person who had been given the gift of shepherding being the leader of a church.

There are however 25 verses that refer to the leadership of the church and they include Apostles, Prophets and ELDERS. Not one mentions shepherds. If the shepherds were the leaders of the NT church, why was it they were never included in the leadership verses?

The Apostles were referred to as "shepherds" because they were told to feed the flock (See Acts 20:28, 1 Peter 5:2, John 21:15-17). We are the sheep, and Christ and the Apostles are shepherds. Christ is the Good Shepherd and He is certainly a leader. He is a king. The Apostles are also shepherds in that they are told to take care of the flock. A shepherd takes care of a flock. And the Apostles are leaders.

Furthermore, I stated that gifts are given to both men and women; however, the calling of the priesthood belongs only to men. The priesthood is not a gift given to women. It is a calling only to men because men are the head of the house.

 

[marksman]

Furthermore, I stated that gifts are given to both men and women; however, the calling of the priesthood belongs only to men. The priesthood is not a gift given to women. It is a calling only to men because men are the head of the house.

Where does it say in the New Testament that men are called to the priesthood Catholic version?

The Apostles were referred to as "shepherds" because they were told to feed the flock (See Acts 20:28, 1 Peter 5:2, John 21:15-17). We are the sheep, and Christ and the Apostles are shepherds. Christ is the Good Shepherd and He is certainly a leader. He is a king. The Apostles are also shepherds in that they are told to take care of the flock. A shepherd takes care of a flock. And the Apostles are leaders.

I am glad you agree with me which only goes to show doesn't it that there is no such thing as a "shepherd" in the leadership stakes in the New Testament.

I will qualify this by saying in today's parlance he is usually called a priest, a pastor, rector, vicar, etc.

 

[Dodo_David]

Being that the Apostle Paul specifically spoke against allowing women to preach, I wonder why some people insist on contradicting him.
Is there scriptural support for contradicting Paul, or do people contradict him because his instruction isn't emotionally pleasing?