Female Pastors

[101G]

The Apostle Paul did call a husband a "Head". In this case the husband is the Head of the wife and his household. So, Christ is not the only one called a "Head" in the Bible.
sister is this HOUSEHOLD that the husband is head of, carnal, or Spiritual?.

In the same way, Christ is called the Shepherd of the flock (1 Peter 2:25), but the Apostles are also called the "shepherds of the flock (Acts 20:28). Does this mean that there is more than one shepherd?? No, it means that the bishops represents Christ just as the husband represents Christ as "Head."

sister you have no clue of the Spirit, do you. no man or woman can do nothing without the spirit. and Christ repersent himself with no problem, we should follow the Spirit. as of 1 Peter 2:25 listen to 1 Peter 5:1 "The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed: 2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind 3 Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock. 4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away".
let the scripture say it again, 3 Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock".
YOU SHOULD BE AN EXAMPLE.

did you see what the apostle peter said, 2 "Feed the flock of God". with what?. what was the scripture I gave in the topic?, Jeremiah 3:15 "And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding". so Pastors are to feed the Lord sheep, not being Lord over them, but examples. now sister, who have the gift of Pastor?. Joel 2:28 "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions". Just the scriptures I gave. now it's the Spirit who give the Pastoral gift. 1 Corinthians 12:7 "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit". feed with knowledge and wisdom. all these scriptures I gave. so what's your problem.

it is the word of God, because you are in unbelief. or you carnal doctrine keep you from the scriptures given?. which one sister.
I ask do you deny the scriptures given? y or N.

 

[Selene]

The Apostle Paul did call a husband a "Head". In this case the husband is the Head of the wife and his household. So, Christ is not the only one called a "Head" in the Bible.
sister is this HOUSEHOLD that the husband is head of, carnal, or Spiritual?.

It was the Holy Spirit speaking in St. Paul who gave the title "Head of the house" to the husbands, so what came from the Holy Spirit is not carnal at all. The title "Head of the house" came from God. Furthermore, it was God who put defined and created the marriage between husbands and wives (Matthew 19:6), and it was God who gave children in that household because they were created by God in His image and likeness.

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

then do you refute the scripture given y/n?. a yes or no will do only.

I'm confused. Is it yes or no according to how you structured your arguments with scripture or is it the scripture alone, in context as it was written?

It was the Holy Spirit speaking in St. Paul who gave the title "Head of the house" to the husbands, so what came from the Holy Spirit is not carnal at all. The title "Head of the house" came from God. Furthermore, it was God who put defined and created the marriage between husbands and wives (Matthew 19:6), and it was God who gave children in that household because they were created by God in His image and likeness.

I think you're beating your head against a wall, sister. :blink: I admire your tenacity. However, our Lord says, those who have ears to hear... Since God speaks to his people through his written word by the enablement of Holy spirit who guides & illuminates our understanding, I think you're dealing with a deaf or at least a partially deaf person.

 

[Polt]

Not deaf. That person is a mystic, not a Christian. The mystic considers the source of truth to be within, one's own feelings and humanist wisdom. All other sources of knowledge, including the Bible, are outside the body and are dismissed as "fleshly." Our mystic just uses Christian jargon rather than the more traditional vocabulary of mystics. For example, instead of consulting "the spirits" our mystic uses the phrase "Holy Spirit".

The mystic tells us that the Bible cannot replace the Holy Spirit (i.e. the spirits). But, a Christian tests all spirits with the Bible, not the other way around. That is, the spirits cannot replace the Bible.

To the mystic, Christ is personification of energy that flows through us. The energy doesn't flow from the man to the woman, therefor it's not acceptable to say the man is the head of the woman. The energy is within each of us and therefore we have the same role in sharing the enlightenment from the energy.

 

[Harry3142]

When my wife died in 2008, I had a female priest read the burial office for her. I didn't have her do it out of a sense of wanting to appear politically correct, but instead because I knew the priest to teach Scripture as it should be taught. People who had known me for several years were coming in from as far away as 100+ miles, and I knew them to be conservative, and some of them even fundamentalistic. So she was the best choice for an anglican priest in this locale, since she was also conservative.

My decision was affirmed by their reaction to her performance of the service, as well as her communication with them following the service and burial. She presented herself well to men who had never had contact with a female minister or priest before, and I received compliments from them on her actions and demeanor.

What I am seeing is male ministers losing sight of the main goal of Christianity, which is to preach Christ crucified and resurrected as our atoning sacrifice. It is also to preach that we who have accepted that sacrifice as the atonement for our sins owe a debt of gratitude to God, and so should live our lives in accordance with his moral code as described in Scripture. However, they have all too often 'caved' to the pressures of special-interest groups whose agenda either does not fit well with Christianity's moral code, or actually runs contrary to it.

 

[KingJ]

This is a rather important discussion. I guess the chief question is, is the bible sexist? Well to all who think that, they fail at grasping that God is no respecter of persons. God is impartial, He cannot be sexist. Hence if God ordains that woman must not teach, it is not sexism / partiality! Merely a case of woman and men having different strengths and weaknesses, they are two different creations.

As Selene mentioned, the facts speak for themselves. The biggest imho is that all the initial 12 disciples, specially selected by Jesus, were male. He could have selected a woman, but He didn't. Not even one!

 

[mjrhealth]

Has anyone here actually taken this to God, i do doubt it, for He may disagree with you and the bible Ohbut HE cant do that teh Bible is His word ???

All teh flesh and how men love it,

In all His Love

 

[KingJ]

Has anyone here actually taken this to God, i do doubt it, for He may disagree with you and the bible Ohbut HE cant do that teh Bible is His word ???

All teh flesh and how men love it,

In all His Love

Did you read Polt's post # 104?

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

Not deaf. That person is a mystic, not a Christian. The mystic considers the source of truth to be within, one's own feelings and humanist wisdom. All other sources of knowledge, including the Bible, are outside the body and are dismissed as "fleshly." Our mystic just uses Christian jargon rather than the more traditional vocabulary of mystics. For example, instead of consulting "the spirits" our mystic uses the phrase "Holy Spirit".

The mystic tells us that the Bible cannot replace the Holy Spirit (i.e. the spirits). But, a Christian tests all spirits with the Bible, not the other way around. That is, the spirits cannot replace the Bible.

To the mystic, Christ is personification of energy that flows through us. The energy doesn't flow from the man to the woman, therefor it's not acceptable to say the man is the head of the woman. The energy is within each of us and therefore we have the same role in sharing the enlightenment from the energy.

Interesting post! I suppose a gnostic would fall under the same category,yes?

When my wife died in 2008, I had a female priest read the burial office for her. I didn't have her do it out of a sense of wanting to appear politically correct, but instead because I knew the priest to teach Scripture as it should be taught. People who had known me for several years were coming in from as far away as 100+ miles, and I knew them to be conservative, and some of them even fundamentalistic. So she was the best choice for an anglican priest in this locale, since she was also conservative.

My decision was affirmed by their reaction to her performance of the service, as well as her communication with them following the service and burial. She presented herself well to men who had never had contact with a female minister or priest before, and I received compliments from them on her actions and demeanor.

What I am seeing is male ministers losing sight of the main goal of Christianity, which is to preach Christ crucified and resurrected as our atoning sacrifice. It is also to preach that we who have accepted that sacrifice as the atonement for our sins owe a debt of gratitude to God, and so should live our lives in accordance with his moral code as described in Scripture. However, they have all too often 'caved' to the pressures of special-interest groups whose agenda either does not fit well with Christianity's moral code, or actually runs contrary to it.

First, I'm feel for your loss.

Second, I think under certain circumstances God does use woman to deliver the faithful word and judgement. We are getting a taste of that with Selene. Thirdly, your last paragraph stands out for miles in my mind. These last days we have many Ahab's within the body of Christ who are more than too willing to sell the Gospel for their birth right, making merchandise of people.

Personally, I'm appalled at the amount of cowardness and corruption that men in general and particularly 'christian men' have sunk to. :mellow:

 

[mjrhealth]

Did you read Polt's post # 104?

Oh so I guess the disciples must of being mystics, and God must consistently contradict Himself. Oh how far man has fallen, turned the God who created the universe to a story character without power or authority in a book. Thats why christians are like stunted ugly trees, with there roots bound by the shallowness of there faith, binding up God and forming Him into there own image, never letting Him speak, and so there roots are shallow, built upon sand that has no nutrition no life, no where to go,bound up and dying, trees bound up in shallow pots no where for the roots to go, That is where you choose to be, that is where to choose to leave God, denying His power for teh sake of your flesh. Its ok there are many just like you.

In all His Love

 

[101G]

Selene


It was the Holy Spirit speaking in St. Paul who said, "help those women which laboured with me in the gospel". so what came from the Holy Spirit. is a command then.
Philippians 4:3 "And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.

again, it is the word of God, because you are in unbelief. or you carnal doctrine keep you from the scriptures given?. which one sister.
I ask do you deny the scriptures given? y or N.

 

[mjrhealth]

101G you really do presume a lot.

Joh 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

You have no idea of how men deny God by by putting the bible first. Just because it is in the bible does not make it scripture, just as calling oneself a pastor or preacher doesnt make one called of God.

In all His Love

 

[jiggyfly]

The Apostle Paul did call a husband a "Head". In this case the husband is the Head of the wife and his household. So, Christ is not the only one called a "Head" in the Bible. The man is also called a "Head"......and he's called that not because there are two heads, but because the marriage between man and wife is a reflection of the marriage between Christ and His Church.

In the same way, Christ is called the Shepherd of the flock (1 Peter 2:25), but the Apostles are also called the "shepherds of the flock (Acts 20:28). Does this mean that there is more than one shepherd?? No, it means that the bishops represents Christ just as the husband represents Christ as "Head." In 1 Corinthians 3:11, Christ is called the only "Foundation of the Church" and yet in Ephesians 2:20, the Apostles are also called "the foundations of the Church." Does this mean that there are two foundations?? No, of course not. So, why is it that in the Bible that both Christ and the Apostles are called the "foundations of the Church?" The answer is simple. Christ wishes to express His unity and oneness with His Church. He shows His unity with His Church just as husband and wife are one and united with each other.

So how many heads do you think the Body of Christ have as a whole?

 

[Ruth]

Sister Salene, the Holy Spirit is using you, thank you for submitting to God.

The scriptures are so clear on the matter of leadership of the church, they are to be male.

When a person does not want to submit to the truth of scripture they will do everything in their flesh to twist scripture to fit their sinful desire.

Can a women pastor over department in the church? Yes. But she can not shepherd over the body of the church.

Apostle Paul clearly states the order of headship...God, Jesus, husband, wife. Paul then goes on to say wives should demonstrate this in the church by covering their heads,....why because it is Spiritual, we are to do this as a witness to the angels.

I have started wearing a head covering when in church and prayer with other men.

The modern church has become to worldly. I am the only women in my church that still submits to this teaching.

 

[101G]

2 Selene, & Ruth, Greeting in the name of the Lord Jesus the Christ.

since you say the Holy Ghost is using you, and I say the Holy Ghost is in me also. then show me in the scriptures that I have posted my ERROR, Jeremiah 3:15, Joel 2:27 & 28, Acts chapter 2, and 1 Corinthians chapter 12.
Now if these scripture do not support my topic of Female Pastor, from these scripture point out the ERROR?

I'll be waiting for your answer

Love and Peace
101G

 

[Polt]

The biggest imho is that all the initial 12 disciples, specially selected by Jesus, were male. He could have selected a woman, but He didn't. Not even one!

Jesus choosing only men to be his apostles is a big exhibit. That is a big exhibit, but it's only one exhibit in a pile of exhibits. Those people arguing for female pastors could as well be using those same arguments against Jesus and his choice of apostles. I, for one, would be terrified to be in a position of opposition to Jesus.

 

[justaname]

2 Timothy 2:12

12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.
13 For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve.
14 And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.

Genesis 3:16

16 To the woman He said,
“I will greatly multiply
Your pain in childbirth,
In pain you will bring forth children;
Yet your desire will be for your husband,
And he will rule over you.”

The reason for women not having authority positions in the Church has to do with the curse. When God says "Your desire will be for your husband", this is the same word used translated "desire" when describing sin over Cain.

Genesis 4:7

7 “If you do well, will not your countenance be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it.”

This desire is dominance and is not healthy, this is why Paul refers to first order (2 Timothy 2:13) when writing to Timothy.
Remember women can have other roles in the Church and can teach children and other women, yet authority roles and teaching of men in the Church, is forbidden.

 

[101G]

2 justaname, Greeting in the name of the Lord Jesus,

Here in first Timothy 2:9-15, we need to address the context of who the apostle was talking to. #1 was it to women in general, or was this directed to wives ONLY. that the crust of the matter, CONTEXT, CONTEXT, CONTEXT.

I submit unto you two proof, that the apostle was talking to wives, married women only.
the definition of the word woman.
G1135 γυνή gune (goo-nay') n.
1. a woman
2. (specially) a wife
[probably from the base of G1096]
KJV: wife, woman
Root(s): G1096
so the word "WOMAN" can be either a single woman, or a married woman, (wife).

Proof #1. 1 Timothy 2:12 "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve".
Eve was the, "WIFE", of Adam. so here in verse 13 in referring to the woman Eve this way, it showed the relationship of HUSBAND and WIFE. so why did the apostle used the name Eve here, it was to be known that he was talking to married women.

EVE, G2096 Eua (yoo'-ah) n/p.
1. Eua (or Eva, i.e. Chavvah)
2. Eve, the first woman, and the wife of Adam
[of Hebrew origin (H2332)]
KJV: Eve
Root(s): H2332

so by using this direct personal name of this woman, it indicate that the apostle is speaking of "MARRIED WOMEN".


Proof #2. 1 Timothy 2:15 "Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety".

the only woman, legally who suppose to have, or bear children is a woman who is MARRIED, (to her OWN husband), meaning she have a husband, to legally bear children..
so these scriptures plainly tells us that the apostle was talking to MARRIED WOMEN, WIVES, ONLY. and not to Women in General.


The reason for women not having authority positions in the Church has to do with the curse. When God says "Your desire will be for your husband", this is the same word used translated "desire" when describing sin over Cain.

A curse????.

NOT all women are not MARRIED

so that crutch cannot be used anymore.

Love and Peace
101G

 

[jiggyfly]

Sister Salene, the Holy Spirit is using you, thank you for submitting to God.

The scriptures are so clear on the matter of leadership of the church, they are to be male.

When a person does not want to submit to the truth of scripture they will do everything in their flesh to twist scripture to fit their sinful desire.

Can a women pastor over department in the church? Yes. But she can not shepherd over the body of the church.

Apostle Paul clearly states the order of headship...God, Jesus, husband, wife. Paul then goes on to say wives should demonstrate this in the church by covering their heads,....why because it is Spiritual, we are to do this as a witness to the angels.

I have started wearing a head covering when in church and prayer with other men.

The modern church has become to worldly. I am the only women in my church that still submits to this teaching.

Do you happen to have any scripture that states that women can be department pastors? If so what departments?

 

[101G]

2 Ruth, or Selene,
Apostle Paul clearly states the order of headship...God, Jesus, husband, wife. Paul then goes on to say wives should demonstrate this in the church by covering their heads,....why because it is Spiritual, we are to do this as a witness to the angels.

so Ruth, are you saying that husband and wives only have leadership in Church?. and that husband and wives ONLY make up the church?.


I have started wearing a head covering when in church and prayer with other men.
that's fine if you want to, but consider this, 1 Corinthians 11:13 "Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered? 14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? 15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering. 16 "But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God".

Now Ruth, if God gave women long hair for a covering, why wear a cloth over your head?. you have take this out of context.
and two the apostle said, verse 16 "But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God". look up the word contentious
and see how it is used in the context of this scripture.

Can a women pastor over department in the church? Yes. But she can not shepherd over the body of the church.

that's like saying a woman can be a nurse, but never a doctor?.