First and Second coming?

[MatthewG]

If the only thing you have time for is putting down people who believe Jesus already returned, and you personally don’t believe that, then I’m not sure what the purpose of your comments here really is.

The original post still stands. You’re free to disagree with it as much as you want. The people of that time were real, they were waiting, and they took Jesus’ words seriously — but for some folks today, it all gets treated like a story or something distant and unreal.

And honestly, this isn’t a salvation issue. Whether someone believes Jesus is coming back today or believes He fulfilled His promise in that generation, it doesn’t change whether they belong to God.

It does shape a person’s worldview, though — that part is definitely true.

 

[shepherdsword]

You’re right — for them it truly was the future. Everything Jesus spoke about was coming in their day and age. They were the ones told to watch, to wait, and to stay alert as the time drew near. It wasn’t 2,000 years later for the people He was speaking to; it was their own lifetime that was in view.

And even Revelation follows that same pattern. When it says, “every eye will see Him” (Revelation 1:7), that doesn’t automatically mean the entire globe in our modern sense. John was writing to real churches in Asia Minor, and the phrase fits the people and region involved in those events. It’s describing visibility and impact within that world — the world of those who pierced Him, and the tribes of the land who would mourn. It’s not a statement about satellites, global broadcasts, or a worldwide audience thousands of years later.

So yes, they were told the time was not near at the moment Jesus spoke — but that it would get closer, and when it did, they would recognize the signs. The nearness, the watching, the waiting — all of that belonged to the generation that actually heard His voice.

Beware that you don't make this error:

2 Ti 2:17-18
And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

These things have never happened but MUST happen at the second coming. The second coming and the resulting resurrection are in our future as well. He will return in the same way He was taken up. He was seen taken up by eyewitnesses

Ac 1:9-11 Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, 11 who also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven."

He will physically descend from heaven and resurrect all of the dead in Christ

1 Th 4:16-18
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

We will all be transformed at the second coming. These all are things that MUST take place at the second coming:

1 Co 15:51-53
Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed — in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Php 3:20-21
For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body, according to the working by which He is able even to subdue all things to Himself.

1 Jn 3:2-3
Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.


Blessings!

 

[MatthewG]

All the scriptures that this shepherd brother quoted weren’t written directly to “Matthew in America.” They were written to real people in real situations, in their own time and culture.

I’m not saying there aren’t principles we can learn from — of course there are. Scripture helps us grow, understand God, and live wisely. But there’s also a lot of historical and contextual content that often gets skipped over, and that context matters when we’re trying to understand what those passages originally meant.

 

[MatthewG]

There are a lot of people who feel they can use the Bible as if they personally hold the authority to define exactly what it means for everyone else. But that’s a position Scripture never gives to any individual believer. When someone steps into that role, it often pressures others to conform to their way of thinking instead of encouraging them to seek God and weigh things for themselves.

Scripture actually teaches the opposite. Paul said, “Let each one be fully convinced in his own mind” (Romans 14:5), and he also told believers to “test all things; hold fast what is good” (1 Thessalonians 5:21). That means God expects people to think, discern, and come to their own convictions before Him — not simply adopt someone else’s conclusions.

Yes, people have different views. But the core belief we share is that Jesus came, died, and was raised again by the Holy Spirit of Yahavah/God. That shared foundation is what allows us to have a relationship with Him in the first place.

For the first‑century believers, though, the gospel message included more than that. The “good news” for them was that once the Law was fulfilled, they would be gathered to God when the “great and dreadful day” came upon their generation — just as Jesus promised.

Am I saying you must believe this? Absolutely not. I’m simply pointing out that the content and context of the biblical narrative often get overlooked or misplaced, and that context matters when we’re trying to understand what those passages meant to the people who first heard them.

 

[shepherdsword]

Excuse me, sir. I understand you’re part of the Encounter Team, and I respect that.

But is it somehow wrong or forbidden to believe that Jesus has already come, based on what I see in Scripture? You keep quoting verses at me as though you’re the final authority on the faith, or as if you’ve been given a special position to correct everyone who disagrees.

I am presenting a scriptural basis to show why the second coming has not yet happened. It's a bit over the top to claim I am trying to assert myself as some final authority.

So I just want to understand clearly, @shepherdsword — are you saying you have the authority to correct me? Did God give you that role?

Are you claiming you can post whatever error you want without anyone correcting you? What position do you think YOU hold? Is your word so infallible that no one dares challenge it? Did God make you some sort of prophet that no one dares disagrees with? And yes, stating the second coming has already occurred is a major error.

Because Scripture teaches that “each one should be fully convinced in his own mind” (Romans 14:5) and that we are to “test all things; hold fast what is good” (1 Thessalonians 5:21). That means believers are responsible before God to examine what they believe, not simply submit to someone else’s conclusions.

I’m not trying to be disrespectful. I’m just asking for clarity about the position you believe you hold.

I reserve the right, as a member of this forum, to disagree with anything I sense is dangerous error. However, you are pulling a common tactic. If the scriptures present facts one cannot dispute then one attacks the man that presented them. It's called "ad hominin"

I believe Jesus was seen physically and that He gathered the Bride in AD 70. I’m not sure why that’s such a problem for some people.

If He has already returned then that means the resurrection has already since scripture states that must happen at His return. That is an error:

2 Ti 2:17-18
And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

 

[MatthewG]

I am presenting a scriptural basis to show why the second coming has not yet happened. It's a bit over the top to claim I am trying to assert myself as some final authority.

Are you claiming you can post whatever error you want without anyone correcting you? What position do you think YOU hold? Is your word so infallible that no one dares challenge it? Did God make you some sort of prophet that no one dares disagrees with? And yes, stating the second coming has already occurred is a major error.

I reserve the right, as a member of this forum, to disagree with anything I sense is dangerous error. However, you are pulling a common tactic. If the scriptures present facts one cannot dispute then one attacks the man that presented them. It's called "ad hominin"

If He has already returned then that means the resurrection has already since scripture states that must happen at His return. That is an error:

2 Ti 2:17-18
And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

I appreciate you taking the time to share your perspective, truly. I’m not upset that you disagree with me — people have disagreed about Scripture since the first century. My only concern was the tone, not the fact that you’re presenting verses.

I’m not claiming to be above correction, and I’m definitely not saying I can post whatever I want without anyone responding. We’re all here to discuss, learn, and sharpen each other. Scripture even says, “Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge” (1 Corinthians 14:29). So disagreement is normal and expected.

What I’m trying to express is simply this: none of us here hold absolute authority. We’re all interpreting Scripture the best we can. Paul warned believers not to think of themselves “more highly than they ought to think” (Romans 12:3), and that applies to all of us — including me.

As for the resurrection passage you quoted from 2 Timothy, I understand why you brought it up. But Hymenaeus and Philetus were teaching that the resurrection had already happened in their own time, before the events Jesus said would precede it. That’s a very different claim than saying the resurrection happened after the things Jesus said would take place in that generation. Context matters.

I’m not attacking you, and I’m not dismissing Scripture. I’m simply sharing how I understand the narrative and why I believe the timing statements in the New Testament point to fulfillment in that first‑century generation.

You’re free to disagree, and I respect that. I’m not asking anyone to accept my view — only to recognize that sincere believers can read the same passages and come to different conclusions without accusing each other of bad motives.





To go back and forth is not gonna do us any good, you might just mark me down as - refused to be corrected and mark me or something silly like that.

All the people on the board know where I stand. They are probably sick of it. I don't know for sure.

 

[MatthewG]

Paul was correcting rumors in his time—rumors that were misleading the very people who were waiting for the Lord’s appearing. That’s all that was happening. It wasn’t a universal warning for every generation; it was a pastoral correction for the believers he personally knew and cared for.

And we can see exactly who he was talking to just by reading the opening of 1 Thessalonians. He addresses it “to the church of the Thessalonians”—real men and women in a real city, facing real pressures, and expecting real fulfillment of Jesus’ promises in their lifetime. These were the same people he told, “you are not in darkness, that the day should overtake you as a thief.” That message was directed to them, not to people living thousands of years later.

So when Paul said the time was not yet, he wasn’t pushing fulfillment into the distant future. He was simply correcting the rumor that the day had already arrived. But Jesus had already said that once the signs began, the time would draw nearer and nearer for that generation (Matthew 24:33–34).

This is also where Hymenaeus and Philetus come in. They were teaching that the resurrection had already happened in their own time, before the signs Jesus spoke of had taken place. Paul wasn’t condemning the idea of fulfillment—he was correcting the timing. Their error was claiming the resurrection was past before the events Jesus said must precede it. That’s why Paul said they had “erred” and were “overthrowing the faith of some” (2 Timothy 2:17–18).

And all of this fits perfectly with the New Testament’s repeated statements that the coming of the Lord was drawing near for them:

• “The Lord is at hand.” (Philippians 4:5)
• “The end of all things is at hand.” (1 Peter 4:7)
• “Yet a very little while, and He who is coming will come and will not delay.” (Hebrews 10:37)
• “The coming of the Lord draws near.” (James 5:8)
• “These things must shortly come to pass.” (Revelation 1:1)
• “The time is near.” (Revelation 1:3)

These weren’t vague motivational phrases. They were written to real people who were told the time was approaching for them.

So Paul’s corrections were aimed at first‑century believers dealing with first‑century rumors. He was steadying the people who were actually living through the buildup of those events—not resetting the prophetic clock for two thousand years.

 

[Justified]

That same Jesus also claimed that He would come again (John 14:3; Matthew 16:27–28).

Yes, he did. What is important is how the second coming would occur and be known:

Mat 24:27 For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
...
Mat 24:30 Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Act 1:9 And when he had said these things, as they were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight.
Act 1:10 And while they were gazing into heaven as he went, behold, two men stood by them in white robes,
Act 1:11 and said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.”

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ.
...
1Co 15:42 So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable; what is raised is imperishable.
1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power.
...
1Co 15:50 I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.
1Co 15:51 Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality.

1Th 4:14 For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep.
1Th 4:15 For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
1Th 4:17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

Very clearly none of this has happened. These are very visible signs of the physical return of Christ, visible to all in the world at the same time, both believers and unbelievers. We are physically still perishable and mortal; we still die and the dead have not been raised. We have not, and no one has, been caught up together with the dead in Christ to meet Christ in the clouds as he descends.

2Pe 3:4 They will say, “Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation.”
...
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed.
2Pe 3:11 Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of people ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be set on fire and dissolved, and the heavenly bodies will melt as they burn!

1Jn 2:18 Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour.
...
1Jn 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him, so that when he appears we may have confidence and not shrink from him in shame at his coming.

1Jn 3:2 Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is.

1Jn 5:19 We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.

None of the apostles thought Jesus had returned in their time. This is most important concerning John, given that 1 John was likely written between 85-95 A.D. Together with the earlier letters by Paul and Peter, which give us signs of the return of Jesus, none of which have happened, it is impossible that Jesus has already returned.

 

[shepherdsword]

Paul was correcting rumors in his time—rumors that were misleading the very people who were waiting for the Lord’s appearing. That’s all that was happening. It wasn’t a universal warning for every generation; it was a pastoral correction for the believers he personally knew and cared for.

And we can see exactly who he was talking to just by reading the opening of 1 Thessalonians. He addresses it “to the church of the Thessalonians”—real men and women in a real city, facing real pressures, and expecting real fulfillment of Jesus’ promises in their lifetime. These were the same people he told, “you are not in darkness, that the day should overtake you as a thief.” That message was directed to them, not to people living thousands of years later.

So when Paul said the time was not yet, he wasn’t pushing fulfillment into the distant future. He was simply correcting the rumor that the day had already arrived. But Jesus had already said that once the signs began, the time would draw nearer and nearer for that generation (Matthew 24:33–34).

This is also where Hymenaeus and Philetus come in. They were teaching that the resurrection had already happened in their own time, before the signs Jesus spoke of had taken place. Paul wasn’t condemning the idea of fulfillment—he was correcting the timing. Their error was claiming the resurrection was past before the events Jesus said must precede it. That’s why Paul said they had “erred” and were “overthrowing the faith of some” (2 Timothy 2:17–18).

And all of this fits perfectly with the New Testament’s repeated statements that the coming of the Lord was drawing near for them:

• “The Lord is at hand.” (Philippians 4:5)
• “The end of all things is at hand.” (1 Peter 4:7)
• “Yet a very little while, and He who is coming will come and will not delay.” (Hebrews 10:37)
• “The coming of the Lord draws near.” (James 5:8)
• “These things must shortly come to pass.” (Revelation 1:1)
• “The time is near.” (Revelation 1:3)

These weren’t vague motivational phrases. They were written to real people who were told the time was approaching for them.

So Paul’s corrections were aimed at first‑century believers dealing with first‑century rumors. He was steadying the people who were actually living through the buildup of those events—not resetting the prophetic clock for two thousand years.

The resurrection has not happened.
People are still dying so the dead in Christ have not been raised (I Th 4:16)
We have not received a glorified body (1Cor 15:51, Phil 3:20, 1Jn 3:2)

Paul said this about the second coming:

2 Th 2:1-3
Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,

 

[MatthewG]

The resurrection has not happened.
People are still dying so the dead in Christ have not been raised (I Th 4:16)
We have not received a glorified body (1Cor 15:51, Phil 3:20, 1Jn 3:2)

Paul said this about the second coming:

2 Th 2:1-3
Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,

Shepherd, I think at this point it might be best if we just agree to disagree. It feels like every time I share something, you jump right back in with the same points you already made, and it comes across a bit like you’re following me around the thread. I’m sure that’s not your intention, but that’s how it feels on my end.

I’m not asking you to stop posting, and I’m not saying you can’t disagree with me. But I also don’t think I should have to stop sharing what I believe just because you don’t agree with it. We’re both here to talk about Scripture, and we’re both allowed to have our own convictions.

I haven’t called you wrong, or accused you of being in error, or dismissed everything you’ve said. But it does feel like everything I share gets brushed aside without any real consideration, and that doesn’t feel very fair or balanced.

And just to be clear — I’m not accusing anyone of plotting anything. If there were an issue, I’d hope someone from the staff would simply talk to me directly. I’m just saying the way this back‑and‑forth is going feels a little strange, and I’d rather keep things respectful and peaceful.

I’m fine with us disagreeing. I just want the conversation to stay healthy and not turn into something personal.

 

[MatthewG]

When Paul wrote 2 Thessalonians 2:1–3, he was speaking directly to the first‑century believers who were expecting “the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him.” These were real people in Thessalonica — the same ones he addressed in the opening of the letter — who were waiting for the fulfillment of Jesus’ promises in their lifetime.

Paul says:

“Do not be soon shaken… as though the day of Christ had come.” (2 Thessalonians 2:1–3)

This shows that a rumor was spreading among them that the Day had already arrived. Paul wasn’t correcting Christians 2,000 years later — he was calming the fears of the Bride‑community of that time, the people who were told to watch, wait, and be ready (Matthew 24:42–44).

His message was simple:

• Don’t panic.
• The Day hasn’t arrived yet.
• Certain signs must come first.

This didn’t push the event into the distant future — it simply corrected a premature rumor among the people who were actually expecting it.

And this fits perfectly with the New Testament’s repeated statements that the Lord’s coming was drawing near for them:

• “The coming of the Lord draws near.” (James 5:8)
• “The end of all things is at hand.” (1 Peter 4:7)
• “Yet a very little while, and He who is coming will come and will not delay.” (Hebrews 10:37)
• “These things must shortly come to pass.” (Revelation 1:1)
• “The time is near.” (Revelation 1:3)

These weren’t written to us — they were written to the same living audience Paul was addressing.

So in 2 Thessalonians 2, Paul wasn’t giving a prophecy for every generation. He was giving timing clarity to the first‑century Bride, the covenant community living under apostolic authority, who were awaiting the gathering Jesus promised would come upon their generation (Matthew 24:34).

Paul’s correction was pastoral, not postponing. He was simply helping the Bride stay steady until the signs Jesus described began unfolding in their own time.

 

[Anchorite]

If you’re a child of God through belief in Christ and part of His kingdom, then you already have everything you need. Being part of the Bride of Christ was something unique to a real, living group of people in the first century — people who were actually governed, taught, corrected, and shepherded directly by the apostles themselves.

That structure doesn’t exist today. There is no apostolic governing body, no living eyewitnesses of Jesus’ ministry, no group being prepared for an imminent coming. The Bride belonged to that generation because they were the ones told to watch, wait, and be ready for what was drawing near in their time.

So Christians from the second century onward don’t need to be called “the Bride” to belong to God. We’re part of His kingdom, His family, His people — but the covenant role of the Bride was tied to those first believers who lived under apostolic authority and were awaiting the fulfillment Jesus promised would come upon their generation.

There is nothing in the New Testament that states that being the bride of Christ is dependent upon being under the ministry of the original apostles.

I have seen others argue that various commands, and glorious promises, of the NT are relevant only to the first century believers, or only to the first disciples of Jesus.

Another instance is when Jesus states we are to go forth unto the ends of the earth to make disciples. Or when Jesus said the person who believes on Him will do the same works and greater. Or ask what you will and it will be done unto you.

This attitude is a way to deprive the subsequent generations of believers of treasured truths and sacred duties.

2 Corinthians 11:2

For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

 

[shepherdsword]

Shepherd, I think at this point it might be best if we just agree to disagree. It feels like every time I share something, you jump right back in with the same points you already made,

That's what it seems you are doing. You keep saying that it was all written for their time and has no relevancy today.

and it comes across a bit like you’re following me around the thread. I’m sure that’s not your intention, but that’s how it feels on my end.

You keep presenting your arguments and I keep disagreeing.

I’m not asking you to stop posting, and I’m not saying you can’t disagree with me. But I also don’t think I should have to stop sharing what I believe just because you don’t agree with it. We’re both here to talk about Scripture, and we’re both allowed to have our own convictions.

You can post whatever you like yet you seem to want to dictate what I can post.

I haven’t called you wrong, or accused you of being in error, or dismissed everything you’ve said. But it does feel like everything I share gets brushed aside without any real consideration, and that doesn’t feel very fair or balanced.

I see your point of view. I am not brushing it aside. I am simply disagreeing with you.

And just to be clear — I’m not accusing anyone of plotting anything. If there were an issue, I’d hope someone from the staff would simply talk to me directly. I’m just saying the way this back‑and‑forth is going feels a little strange, and I’d rather keep things respectful and peaceful.

I’m fine with us disagreeing. I just want the conversation to stay healthy and not turn into something personal.

I didn't make it personal you did. I simply posted my position in opposition to yours and you accused me of trying to be some final authority.

 

[MatthewG]

Anchorite,

I think we’re talking past each other a bit. I’m not saying later believers lose anything or that the New Testament doesn’t apply to us. I’m simply saying the covenant role of the Bride in the New Testament was tied to the first‑century believers who were personally taught and prepared by the apostles and were told the coming of the Lord was drawing near in their generation.

That doesn’t take anything away from later Christians. We’re still God’s people, still part of His kingdom, still saved, still filled with the Spirit. I’m only making a distinction between:

• the historical Bride being prepared for an imminent event and
• the ongoing people of God in every generation

Paul’s words in 2 Corinthians 11:2 were spoken to a real congregation he personally shepherded. That doesn’t mean we can’t learn from it — it just means we should honor the original audience and context.

We can disagree on this respectfully. I’m not trying to deprive anyone of anything — just trying to understand the narrative the way the apostles presented it.

I didn't make it personal you did. I simply posted my position in opposition to yours and you accused me of trying to be some final authority.

Please quote where I made it personal? Was it when I questioned you as far as your authority? If you took that personally I am sorry. I wasn't sure what you were doing because it seemed like you are trying to attack me. That is how I felt. But if we are good, we are good now then. Cause the drama stuff i just dont want no where near me.

When people quote a thosaund scriptures at another person it feels like a knife to the face. When I keep trying to be consistent with what is being shared.

I am unable to ignore you... I would have done did that by now.

 

[shepherdsword]

Paul was correcting rumors in his time—rumors that were misleading the very people who were waiting for the Lord’s appearing. That’s all that was happening. It wasn’t a universal warning for every generation; it was a pastoral correction for the believers he personally knew and cared for.

Paul was issuing a warning for all who say the resurrection is past

So Paul’s corrections were aimed at first‑century believers dealing with first‑century rumors. He was steadying the people who were actually living through the buildup of those events—not resetting the prophetic clock for two thousand years.

Paul's writings, as well as his warnings are for the body of Christ today. The second coming is the "blessed hope" and guess what? It it is passed we have no more hope....That is what over throws the faith of many.

 

[MatthewG]

If you guys think I am telling you that you aren't able to have a relationship with God and live by the spirit of the resurrected Lord Yeshua by abiding in him, and you can be sons and daughters of God through faith and the promises which still are here today for us just not the bride of christ and being ready to see jesus except in death you are very mistaken.

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Paul was issuing a warning for all who say the resurrection is past

Paul's writings, as well as his warnings are for the body of Christ today. The second coming is the "blessed hope" and guess what? It it is passed we have no more hope....That is what over throws the faith of many.

I hear what you’re saying, but I don’t agree with your interpretation. And that’s okay — disagreement isn’t against the rules, and it doesn’t mean either of us has to stop posting.

At this point, though, it feels like we’re talking past each other. You’re convinced Paul’s warning applies to every generation, and I’m convinced Paul was addressing a specific situation among the believers he personally taught. We’re not going to meet in the middle on that, and that’s fine.

I’m not going to keep going back and forth on this because it’s not productive. You’re free to hold your view, and I’m free to hold mine. But saying the passage was written for all people in all times doesn’t automatically make it so — the original audience and context still matter.

No hard feelings. I just think it’s best we leave it here.

 

[MatthewG]

I will no longer respond to Shepherdsword.

 

[shepherdsword]

Anchorite,

I think we’re talking past each other a bit. I’m not saying later believers lose anything or that the New Testament doesn’t apply to us. I’m simply saying the covenant role of the Bride in the New Testament was tied to the first‑century believers who were personally taught and prepared by the apostles and were told the coming of the Lord was drawing near in their generation.

That doesn’t take anything away from later Christians. We’re still God’s people, still part of His kingdom, still saved, still filled with the Spirit. I’m only making a distinction between:

• the historical Bride being prepared for an imminent event and
• the ongoing people of God in every generation

Paul’s words in 2 Corinthians 11:2 were spoken to a real congregation he personally shepherded. That doesn’t mean we can’t learn from it — it just means we should honor the original audience and context.

We can disagree on this respectfully. I’m not trying to deprive anyone of anything — just trying to understand the narrative the way the apostles presented it.



Please quote where I made it personal? Was it when I questioned you as far as your authority? If you took that personally I am sorry. I wasn't sure what you were doing because it seemed like you are trying to attack me. That is how I felt. But if we are good, we are good now then. Cause the drama stuff i just dont want no where near me.

When people quote a thosaund scriptures at another person it feels like a knife to the face. When I keep trying to be consistent with what is being shared.

I am unable to ignore you... I would have done did that by now.

Anchorite,

I think we’re talking past each other a bit. I’m not saying later believers lose anything or that the New Testament doesn’t apply to us. I’m simply saying the covenant role of the Bride in the New Testament was tied to the first‑century believers who were personally taught and prepared by the apostles and were told the coming of the Lord was drawing near in their generation.

That doesn’t take anything away from later Christians. We’re still God’s people, still part of His kingdom, still saved, still filled with the Spirit. I’m only making a distinction between:

• the historical Bride being prepared for an imminent event and
• the ongoing people of God in every generation

Paul’s words in 2 Corinthians 11:2 were spoken to a real congregation he personally shepherded. That doesn’t mean we can’t learn from it — it just means we should honor the original audience and context.

We can disagree on this respectfully. I’m not trying to deprive anyone of anything — just trying to understand the narrative the way the apostles presented it.



Please quote where I made it personal?

Post #23

Was it when I questioned you as far as your authority? If you took that personally I am sorry. I wasn't sure what you were doing because it seemed like you are trying to attack me. That is how I felt. But if we are good, we are good now then. Cause the drama stuff i just dont want no where near me.

When people quote a thosaund scriptures at another person it feels like a knife to the face. When I keep trying to be consistent with what is being shared.

I am unable to ignore you... I would have done did that by now.

I am not trying to put a knife in your face. I am just posting scriptures that dispute your position. Such as claiming the warning about saying the resurrection is past is only for Paul's time. Saying that now over throws the faith of some because if the resurrection is already past what are we hoping for?

 

[shepherdsword]

I will no longer respond to Shepherdsword.

That's fine. However, I reserve the right to present opposition to your position.

 

[MatthewG]

Post number 23 has been deleted.