Follow the government or follow God

[Cristo Rei]

For me as a Catholic it is a great to see the Archbishop of Melbourne come out and officially oppose these restrictions...
It gives me great comfort knowing that my belief is that same as the Church's. That im backed by the Holy See...
It gives a great confirmation that what i suspected was true all along...
It gives me great confidence and gratitude that i have been guided by the Holy Spirit...
And it fills my heart with joy knowing that im following Christ's Church...

 

[Josho]

Read this scripture carefully...
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.- Ephesians 6:12

Yes but the Bible also says

Romans 13:1-6

All of you must obey the government rulers. Everyone who rules was given the power to rule by God. And all those who rule now were given that power by God. 2 So anyone who is against the government is really against something God has commanded. Those who are against the government bring punishment on themselves. 3 People who do right don’t have to fear the rulers. But those who do wrong must fear them. Do you want to be free from fearing them? Then do only what is right, and they will praise you.

4 Rulers are God’s servants to help you. But if you do wrong, you have reason to be afraid. They have the power to punish, and they will use it. They are God’s servants to punish those who do wrong. 5 So you must obey the government, not just because you might be punished, but because you know it is the right thing to do.

6 And this is why you pay taxes too. Those rulers are working for God, and they give all their time to the work of ruling. 7 Give everyone what you owe them. If you owe them any kind of tax, then pay it. Show respect to those you should respect. And show honor to those you should honor.

 

[Cristo Rei]

Yes but the Bible also says

Romans 13:1-6

All of you must obey the government rulers. Everyone who rules was given the power to rule by God. And all those who rule now were given that power by God. 2 So anyone who is against the government is really against something God has commanded. Those who are against the government bring punishment on themselves. 3 People who do right don’t have to fear the rulers. But those who do wrong must fear them. Do you want to be free from fearing them? Then do only what is right, and they will praise you.

4 Rulers are God’s servants to help you. But if you do wrong, you have reason to be afraid. They have the power to punish, and they will use it. They are God’s servants to punish those who do wrong. 5 So you must obey the government, not just because you might be punished, but because you know it is the right thing to do.

6 And this is why you pay taxes too. Those rulers are working for God, and they give all their time to the work of ruling. 7 Give everyone what you owe them. If you owe them any kind of tax, then pay it. Show respect to those you should respect. And show honor to those you should honor.

Well then which one is right??? Your committing to one part of scripture when there is several unexplained contradictions...
Committing is foolish...

Do u commit to church or government???
Whose authority do u hold highest???

 

[Josho]

Read this scripture carefully...
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.- Ephesians 6:12

Well here are the key words for you. Lets highlight this bit.

"For our struggle is not against flesh and blood"



You're welcome.

 

[Cristo Rei]

Which road will you take...

 

[Josho]

Well then which one is right??? Your committing to one part of scripture when there is several unexplained contradictions...
Committing is foolish...

Do u commit to church or government???
Whose authority do u hold highest???

There are no contradictions, read the part of the verse i just highlighted for you.

 

[Cristo Rei]

There are no contradictions, read the part of the verse i just highlighted for you.

Difference in interpretation then shall we call it... I interpret that as being our flesh and blood, not that of others...
I don't like playing scripture tennis but i quoted this before...

And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds, not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching. - Hebrews 10:24-25

Its a scripture stalemate

And with that verse about following authority did that count also when Hitler was in power... Did it count in the Soviet Union when they destroyed all churches and religions... Did it count every time men were sent out to die in meaningless wars...

So in scripture its a stalemate... Next highest authority... The RCC thank you very much
And so we still stand at this cross road...

Government wants them closed, Church wants open...

 

[Cristo Rei]

@Josho... U know... I can't help but wonder if your just committed to the ALP or if u have a larger agenda...

Do u support globalization???
Do u support change from the current system???

 

[Cristo Rei]

@Josho... U know... I can't help but wonder if your just committed to the ALP or if u have a larger agenda...

Do u support globalization???
Do u support change from the current system???

See, iv asked u similar kinds of questions before... But i never got a response.... And your marinating this one as well... LoL
There are Christian socialists and Christian globalists and i do understand many of their arguments...

Cos if u are a Christian socialist then just come out with it. It would make your views far more logical then they appear to be now...
ATM you appear to be a Malcom Turnbull double agent...Like your trying to infiltrate the right but you really aligned to the left...

So cmon ... Out with the truth... Are u a Christian socialist???
Failure to answer again will force me to conclude the affirmative

 

[JohnDB]

There's nothing that the Government can do about a pastor or priest meeting individual families. Or two small families getting together like many are planning for the holidays.

Now large family gatherings are out. I'm supposed to take part in one this season in GA...but we aren't going to do it.
Next year? Probably will. But that one will have over a hundred people in it and still not everyone will be there.
I have plenty of reasons to not trust the family.

 

[Cristo Rei]

There's nothing that the Government can do about a pastor or priest meeting individual families. Or two small families getting together like many are planning for the holidays.

Now large family gatherings are out. I'm supposed to take part in one this season in GA...but we aren't going to do it.
Next year? Probably will. But that one will have over a hundred people in it and still not everyone will be there.
I have plenty of reasons to not trust the family.

Hi... Over here their ready to allow up to 50 people in a bar but they won't even open up churches. All our religious leaders are opposed to these restrictions... 50 people in a church every Sunday is far safer than a bar that has 50 people in their coming in and out all night every night... No baptisms, no weddings, only 10 people at funerals... Today i think we had 4 new cases... Still locked down

 

[Cristo Rei]

@JohnDB And get this... I know how much u despise drugs and justifiably so.... In Melbourne they have "safe houses" where junkies are allowed to go and shoot up drugs... Their even supplied a syringe... Drugs are illegal yet this has been considered an "essential service"...

So church is not essential but drugs and alcohol are...
It must be pure evil doing all this, there is no other explanation

 

[Cristo Rei]

All this from a government that has proven itself to be anti-Christian even before the pandemic came along

 

[JohnDB]

I can understand that it's frustrating...

I'm so tired of being in quarantine myself.
I want to go back to work...but I definitely know better. (Everyone is sick or has been sick...and I don't dare get sick)

I'm tired of not going to work and showing my apprentices how to get things done right.

I'm tired of not going to church and Sunday School class and seeing my friends.
I missed baking cakes for so many of their Birthdays...

Christmas is coming and the parties are going to not happen...
Thanksgiving is coming up and I probably won't get to do anything about it either.

All the ladies dressed up...the children decorating gingerbread houses I baked...the guys wolfing down cookies...the ladies breaking diets for treats "worth it".

That's what I am so tired of...and even if I break quarantine...there's no one and nothing going on.

We have had a 50% increase in the last two weeks here in this city.
I have to stay home. I love my wife and she makes up a huge part of my world. Her getting sick or dying isn't an option.

I can't afford to break quarantine.

 

[Cristo Rei]

I can understand that it's frustrating...

I'm so tired of being in quarantine myself.
I want to go back to work...but I definitely know better. (Everyone is sick or has been sick...and I don't dare get sick)

I'm tired of not going to work and showing my apprentices how to get things done right.

I'm tired of not going to church and Sunday School class and seeing my friends.
I missed baking cakes for so many of their Birthdays...

Christmas is coming and the parties are going to not happen...
Thanksgiving is coming up and I probably won't get to do anything about it either.

All the ladies dressed up...the children decorating gingerbread houses I baked...the guys wolfing down cookies...the ladies breaking diets for treats "worth it".

That's what I am so tired of...and even if I break quarantine...there's no one and nothing going on.

We have had a 50% increase in the last two weeks here in this city.
I have to stay home. I love my wife and she makes up a huge part of my world. Her getting sick or dying isn't an option.

I can't afford to break quarantine.

Awwwww.... Man that's so sad......
I miss the town i was raised in... Now is a time of year where it should be buzzing here as well. Heaps of events sporting and otherwise...

What trade r u in... Sparky is it?

I think i remember you saying that your wife already has comorbidities that put her at risk... Thats tough... Ive been recently contemplating weather or not death is destined... Any thoughts?

I don't understand if you test negative why you still have to quarantine...
Where do u quarantine anyway? A nice lil island in the Caribbean? Expenses paid by Uncle Sam? LoL. That would be nice...

 

[FollowHim]

Like i said... You've chosen government over our church

And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds, not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching. - Hebrews 10:24-25

The problem with saying lets meet in a building where we can die together, is buildings are not part of the faith, just a group expression of the faith.
Once you put the building above faith, you have made it into something bigger than God.

If one takes a sacramental view of faith, by stopping people going to the church and receiving mass, one is stopping their salvation or that is how it could feel. But equally when people are bed bound, mass can come to them.

Covid-19 is the equivalent to people becoming bed bound, so those with a sacremental view of faith should work out a way of expressing their faith that keeps people safe and gives glory to God.

Sadly I would agree with prosecuting those who endanger others lives with strategies that encourage the spread of the virus, when other approaches could be taken. In Jesus we are overcomers through the love Christ has placed in our hearts. Spreading illness by a chosen lifestyle is not part of the gospel but is sinful behaviour.

God bless you

 

[JohnDB]

Awwwww.... Man that's so sad......
I miss the town i was raised in... Now is a time of year where it should be buzzing here as well. Heaps of events sporting and otherwise...

What trade r u in... Sparky is it?

I think i remember you saying that your wife already has comorbidities that put her at risk... Thats tough... Ive been recently contemplating weather or not death is destined... Any thoughts?

I don't understand if you test negative why you still have to quarantine...
Where do u quarantine anyway? A nice lil island in the Caribbean? Expenses paid by Uncle Sam? LoL. That would be nice...

Because as an electrician I would be in close contact with the guys who are so desperate for a paycheck that they will come to work sick and infect everyone. (Usually immigrants or green card workers)

And that has infected the whole construction world here.
My going to work wouldn't be a question of "if" I get sick but "when".
Most jobs here are at 95% either sick or have been sick. Everyone tests positive. They only test for fever on a daily basis. And acetaminophen or ibuprofen masks a fever.

 

[Cristo Rei]

The problem with saying lets meet in a building where we can die together, is buildings are not part of the faith, just a group expression of the faith.
Once you put the building above faith, you have made it into something bigger than God.

If one takes a sacramental view of faith, by stopping people going to the church and receiving mass, one is stopping their salvation or that is how it could feel. But equally when people are bed bound, mass can come to them.

Covid-19 is the equivalent to people becoming bed bound, so those with a sacremental view of faith should work out a way of expressing their faith that keeps people safe and gives glory to God.

Sadly I would agree with prosecuting those who endanger others lives with strategies that encourage the spread of the virus, when other approaches could be taken. In Jesus we are overcomers through the love Christ has placed in our hearts. Spreading illness by a chosen lifestyle is not part of the gospel but is sinful behaviour.

God bless you

Ok but your missing the point...

They are allowing up to 50 people to congregate in a bar but are still keeping churches closed...
The Archbishop of Melbourne has written to the premier in opposition of the unfair treatment as well as 12,000 other religious figures...

Government and church are opposed... I have to agree with the church...
50 people in a sunday mass is no where near as risky as a bar that is open all night with people coming and going and drinking and socialising... Its religious discrimination... We had 4 cases today, 2 yesterday, 1 the day b4

 

[JohnDB]

Ok but your missing the point...

They are allowing up to 50 people to congregate in a bar but are still keeping churches closed...
The Archbishop of Melbourne has written to the premier in opposition of the unfair treatment as well as 12,000 other religious figures...

Government and church are opposed... I have to agree with the church...
50 people in a sunday mass is no where near as risky as a bar that is open all night with people coming and going and drinking and socialising... Its religious discrimination... We had 4 cases today, 2 yesterday, 1 the day b4

But I would encourage the Churches to be very careful in antagonizing the various Governments. We don't need to become an infection circle like the food processor and construction workers are currently.

 

[Truman]

Currently hospitality venues may seat up to 20 people indoors and 50 people outdoors while religious gatherings are limited to 10 people outdoors or indoor services for one household.

Here in Victoria the evil one has had churches closed since March, considered non-essential... God is considered non-essential...

So then, what is essential here...
Well the bottle shop is essential cos we have to be able to access alcohol...
Injecting rooms have been open all this time... It is illegal to use drugs therefore our government supplies them with syringes and a safe place to inject their drugs...

Ok, so essential is alcohol and drugs... Non-essential is God... The last thing they want is pastors preaching sermons all over town... Some of these pastors might reveal too much...
The last thing they want is for us to congregate under God... Their the authority now...

The churches of Melbourne have been very patient with the Victorian government but now they've crossed the line... Most of the churches in Melbourne are now against the restrictions imposed by Daniel Andrews, including the RCC...

There is no justification for this at all

Don't get me wrong this isn't an innocent decision by the government... They have proven themselves to be anti-Christian on many occasion... They are evil to the core... They took bribes to lock up Cardinal George Pell... Their exposing kids to deviant LGBT lifestyles and prosecuting those that oppose it...

Man... There is a huge problem in Australia with child trafficking and Victoria is the worse... But does the media cover it... Nope... Not at all

So then, as a Catholic/Christian, my views on this lockdown are in line with the Archdiocese of Melbourne... And with most of the other churches on board it now becomes a choice... Trust the government and continue to support its decisions... Or support the Church

An Open Letter to the Premier from the Catholic Bishops of Victoria
People of faith deserve hope, not exile: Archbishop Comensoli
Victorian Catholics push for churches to open
‘Equality, not hypocrisy’: Victorian faith groups petition Daniel Andrews for changes in COVID-19 roadmap
Victorian Catholics want churches open - Catholic Voice
No Cookies | The Weekly Times
Melbourne Catholics upset at ongoing restrictions

Vancouver's downtown east-side has more than its share of addicts. These are very broken people for whom life is mainly a nightmare. They understand pain and they understand pain relief. Many hate society but mostly they hate themselves.
When a supervised injection site is used, it is often the first time in many years that an addict has received anything positive from their surrounding community. One is told that although their behavior is destructive, they are more valuable than their shortcomings.
They are worth loving. They are worth saving. This, I believe, is where one would find Jesus if He walked on earth today.
Volunteers from the medical world sit and watch them just in case they O.D. and die. This happens far too often.
Drugs are not the problem. Drugs are used to numb pain that originates from the soul. This pain can be caused by the wrongs we have done and the wrongs done to us.
I believe that those who have failed many attempts at recovery should be given their drug of choice, I'm thinking diacetylmorphine (DiaMorph, Heroin), which is used daily in our nation's hospital.
These people need stability in their lives. When they don't have to spend all their time, money, and effort on avoiding withdrawal, they can focus on other things like eating a balanced diet, personal hygiene, becoming financially responsible, learning how to have healthy relationships, perhaps a live-in recovery house, etc. What they really need is hope.