Follow the government or follow God

[Cristo Rei]

But I would encourage the Churches to be very careful in antagonizing the various Governments. We don't need to become an infection circle like the food processor and construction workers are currently.

Antagonizing is not what is happening here but... Theres no accusations as such... The churches have been silently patient throughout this whole thing...

There is a general antagonism here towards the state government from most people in society for the inept handling of covid. They say Trump screwed up but in comparison Andrews is a disaster of bad decisions.

Some one described this as being in a slow motion car accident... Thats gone on for 8 months... I like that comparison... I see the car rolling one way and Victoria about to get smashed but can't do anything to stop it.

If we cannot even question why a bar can hold 50 people and why we can't open then Christianity is all but dead...

 

[Cristo Rei]

Vancouver's downtown east-side has more than its share of addicts. These are very broken people for whom life is mainly a nightmare. They understand pain and they understand pain relief. Many hate society but mostly they hate themselves.
When a supervised injection site is used, it is often the first time in many years that an addict has received anything positive from their surrounding community. One is told that although their behavior is destructive, they are more valuable than their shortcomings.
They are worth loving. They are worth saving. This, I believe, is where one would find Jesus if He walked on earth today.
Volunteers from the medical world sit and watch them just in case they O.D. and die. This happens far too often.
Drugs are not the problem. Drugs are used to numb pain that originates from the soul. This pain can be caused by the wrongs we have done and the wrongs done to us.
I believe that those who have failed many attempts at recovery should be given their drug of choice, I'm thinking diacetylmorphine (DiaMorph, Heroin), which is used daily in our nation's hospital.
These people need stability in their lives. When they don't have to spend all their time, money, and effort on avoiding withdrawal, they can focus on other things like eating a balanced diet, personal hygiene, becoming financially responsible, learning how to have healthy relationships, perhaps a live-in recovery house, etc. What they really need is hope.

I agree that these people do need support and i think Jesus would be found in our prisons... In fact i know that Christ is very easily found in our prisons...

However i disagree with your approach in allowing them to feed their habit... I believe that recovery should be the goal of every addict... I believe it is their spiritual warfare, the cross that they must carry... There are really great recourse to help with that such as doctors, counsellors, support groups and more... There are inspirations such as Russel Brand that ought to be championed as a hero, u survivor who broke the cycle of pain and pain relief... Being on drugs is not sustainable for most people, they are unable to hold a job or keep healthy relationships...

Recovery is achievable and should be the goal...

 

[FollowHim]

Vancouver's downtown east-side has more than its share of addicts. These are very broken people for whom life is mainly a nightmare. They understand pain and they understand pain relief. Many hate society but mostly they hate themselves.
When a supervised injection site is used, it is often the first time in many years that an addict has received anything positive from their surrounding community. One is told that although their behavior is destructive, they are more valuable than their shortcomings.
They are worth loving. They are worth saving. This, I believe, is where one would find Jesus if He walked on earth today.
Volunteers from the medical world sit and watch them just in case they O.D. and die. This happens far too often.
Drugs are not the problem. Drugs are used to numb pain that originates from the soul. This pain can be caused by the wrongs we have done and the wrongs done to us.
I believe that those who have failed many attempts at recovery should be given their drug of choice, I'm thinking diacetylmorphine (DiaMorph, Heroin), which is used daily in our nation's hospital.
These people need stability in their lives. When they don't have to spend all their time, money, and effort on avoiding withdrawal, they can focus on other things like eating a balanced diet, personal hygiene, becoming financially responsible, learning how to have healthy relationships, perhaps a live-in recovery house, etc. What they really need is hope.

The is a drug that is an opiate that stops the withdrawal symtoms without the high, so if people want a stable life there is a way out that is not a drug that is sellable on. It is this kind of solution which is a real game changer if people are truly caught and need a way of resolution. The sad thing is drugs do not change the underlying issues just repress them. And the pain lying below without Jesus can rip them apart. It is why I think evangelism with practical application is a real life saver as well as bringing people into the Kingdom.

God bless you

 

[Truman]

I agree that these people do need support and i think Jesus would be found in our prisons... In fact i know that Christ is very easily found in our prisons...

However i disagree with your approach in allowing them to feed their habit... I believe that recovery should be the goal of every addict... I believe it is their spiritual warfare, the cross that they must carry... There are really great recourse to help with that such as doctors, counsellors, support groups and more... There are inspirations such as Russel Brand that ought to be championed as a hero, u survivor who broke the cycle of pain and pain relief... Being on drugs is not sustainable for most people, they are unable to hold a job or keep healthy relationships...

Recovery is achievable and should be the goal...

Yes, I agree recovery is the goal. Truth is the gold standard. But these are frail people who believe they can only fail. They are absolute prisoners of the enemy. Shame keeps them locked down. A saying from the 12 step program Narcotics Anonymous: "The therapeutic value of one addict helping another is beyond parallel."
Punishing someone for having a diseased soul is, in my opinion, cruel and unusual punishment.
I believe that the church, to a great degree, has lost sight of their own need. Believing they see, they have entered into deception. The Lord is serious about bringing His plumbline alongside the hearts of those called by His name.
"having a form of godliness but lacking the power." The truth hurts and then it will set you free."

The is a drug that is an opiate that stops the withdrawal symtoms without the high, so if people want a stable life there is a way out that is not a drug that is sellable on. It is this kind of solution which is a real game changer if people are truly caught and need a way of resolution. The sad thing is drugs do not change the underlying issues just repress them. And the pain lying below without Jesus can rip them apart. It is why I think evangelism with practical application is a real life saver as well as bringing people into the Kingdom.

God bless you

I agree...one step at a time, as slow as it need be. Many of these people were shattered during their childhood, only the good Lord knows by what. They need to be rebuilt by the Lord through others He has already done this in. Shalom.

 

[Truman]

I know what it means to be one of these people. I also know what it means to be restored by my Abba Father. I know what it takes.
A long-time addict has an advanced disease of the soul. I started seeking recovery in the church and got nothing but powerless religion, which, by the way, is often used as a substitute for risking trusting God.
I do acknowledge it was me that was my biggest problem.
I'd rather hang out with the outcasts any day. At least they know their need. Shalom.

 

[Giuliano]

Let me remind people that Pilate broke Roman law and sentenced an innocent man to death. . . to please religious leaders.

 

[FollowHim]

I know what it means to be one of these people. I also know what it means to be restored by my Abba Father. I know what it takes.
A long-time addict has an advanced disease of the soul. I started seeking recovery in the church and got nothing but powerless religion, which, by the way, is often used as a substitute for risking trusting God.
I do acknowledge it was me that was my biggest problem.
I'd rather hang out with the outcasts any day. At least they know their need. Shalom.

I have always felt our disease of the 21 century is wealth, it makes us think we are rich when we are poor.
A friend of mine, who I have spent many years talking to and sharing, has not learn that Jesus calls us to be open and vulnerable, because he is very bright and has never been in the place when all is lost and he just needs to call out to Jesus.

It is strange because for him everything is such a bother, an honourous task, rather than a joy to bring light and love of Jesus to other people.
I love him in his situation, but I am not sure the light is on. When you have been to the place of desperation and given up, and the Lord has come down beside you, and picked you up, there are no hurts or boundaries that really matter any more, because what can they do.

For some death is such a distant experience, not literally losing most you know by the time you get to 20, which 3 generations ago was not uncommon. It is said the rich know wealth has no meaning and the poor that working together and being a group matters, but the middle class, caught between the two think what they have got makes them who they are. And my reply is God help them.

 

[Truman]

I have always felt our disease of the 21 century is wealth, it makes us think we are rich when we are poor.
A friend of mine, who I have spent many years talking to and sharing, has not learn that Jesus calls us to be open and vulnerable, because he is very bright and has never been in the place when all is lost and he just needs to call out to Jesus.

It is strange because for him everything is such a bother, an honourous task, rather than a joy to bring light and love of Jesus to other people.
I love him in his situation, but I am not sure the light is on. When you have been to the place of desperation and given up, and the Lord has come down beside you, and picked you up, there are no hurts or boundaries that really matter any more, because what can they do.

For some death is such a distant experience, not literally losing most you know by the time you get to 20, which 3 generations ago was not uncommon. It is said the rich know wealth has no meaning and the poor that working together and being a group matters, but the middle class, caught between the two think what they have got makes them who they are. And my reply is God help them.

Well said.

 

[JohnDB]

Antagonizing is not what is happening here but... Theres no accusations as such... The churches have been silently patient throughout this whole thing...

There is a general antagonism here towards the state government from most people in society for the inept handling of covid. They say Trump screwed up but in comparison Andrews is a disaster of bad decisions.

Some one described this as being in a slow motion car accident... Thats gone on for 8 months... I like that comparison... I see the car rolling one way and Victoria about to get smashed but can't do anything to stop it.

If we cannot even question why a bar can hold 50 people and why we can't open then Christianity is all but dead...

It's not a fair parallel.
Movie theater or a concert is similar in nature but not intent.

And those likely aren't open either.

 

[Cristo Rei]

Let me remind people that Pilate broke Roman law and sentenced an innocent man to death. . . to please religious leaders.

Ok but im not too sure what the connection is to the topic... Maybe your saying that we should trust government over church but that can go drastically wrong as well just look at the Soviet Union

 

[Cristo Rei]

It's not a fair parallel.

I think it is and so do the religious leaders here... What else would they compare to...
Remember our situation here as well... 1 or 2 daily cases in the last week and there are 5.5 million people living here...

 

[JohnDB]

I think it is and so do the religious leaders here... What else would they compare to...
Remember our situation here as well... 1 or 2 daily cases in the last week and there are 5.5 million people living here...

Are the theatres open?
Similar seating.
Are there any music concerts?
Similar seating...

What you don't want is to have a church be a cluster.

 

[Cristo Rei]

Are the theatres open?
Similar seating.
Are there any music concerts?
Similar seating...

What you don't want is to have a church be a cluster.

Their closed too... This just shows how irrational it all is. A small bar is much riskier to hold 50 people...

The fear mongering over one or two cases here is absurd

 

[Cristo Rei]

At least the insanity is not only reserved for religion...

This has been the case here in Victoria for the last month... Its no different to every other state here...

But every other state is open and getting back to normal... Victoria however refuses to open up, instead preferring to keep us locked up...

If a pandemic involves heaps of death then it doesn't exist here or anywhere really.
If a pandemic doesn't involve death than we have several of them every year including the flu...

 

[JohnDB]

At least the insanity is not only reserved for religion...

This has been the case here in Victoria for the last month... Its no different to every other state here...

But every other state is open and getting back to normal... Victoria however refuses to open up, instead preferring to keep us locked up...

If a pandemic involves heaps of death then it doesn't exist here or anywhere really.
If a pandemic doesn't involve death than we have several of them every year including the flu...

It's not the death.
It's the long term effects of this virus.
I've said this before but you don't seem to understand this.

The effects for some are negligible.
But for others it's a whole new way of life.

And it's either a quarter or an eighth that get this disease that will have lives forever changed by this virus. They won't be whole again. For some it's permanent brain damage. For others it's kidney damage.
Others get either lung or heart damage.

That's why the quarantine.

 

[Cristo Rei]

It's not the death.
It's the long term effects of this virus.
I've said this before but you don't seem to understand this.

The effects for some are negligible.
But for others it's a whole new way of life.

And it's either a quarter or an eighth that get this disease that will have lives forever changed by this virus. They won't be whole again. For some it's permanent brain damage. For others it's kidney damage.
Others get either lung or heart damage.

That's why the quarantine.

I understand what your saying but your the only person ive heard say that...
Even if i assume that is true it doesn't justify the longest and strictest lockdowns in the western world...
Take a close look at the number of daily cases... Do the numbers justify these actions?

 

[Cristo Rei]

Im tired of being locked down for 8 months...
Im tired of being unable to work for 8 months...
Im tired of not being able to go anywhere or visit anyone
Im tired of the constant fear being peddled by the mainstream every single day
Im tired of the experts being censored and info being withheld
Im tired of being treated like a child and being told what to do
Im tired of having the rest of society be ignored
Im tired of facts and truths being ignored
Im tired of living like a prisoner without any freedom or any rights
Im tired of this government cancelling democracy and dictating everything to us
Im tired of the longest and strictest lockdowns in the western world...

 

[Giuliano]

Ok but im not too sure what the connection is to the topic... Maybe your saying that we should trust government over church but that can go drastically wrong as well just look at the Soviet Union

I am saying the question is not so simple. Saying we're choosing religion over government doesn't make something right. Church leaders can be wrong just as government leaders can be.

 

[dev553344]

I think people should be allowed to attend church so long as they wear masks.

 

[Cristo Rei]

I think people should be allowed to attend church so long as they wear masks.

If masks were really preventing infection then they would allow everything... Fact is that masks are useless and they know it...
But even if we play along with their measures then i see no reason why mass should be cancelled...