I use the KJV as my authority.
The translation needs no further translating, unless someone has an agenda.
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The translation needs no further translating, unless someone has an agenda.
Behold
Well-Known Member
Try again.
Paul said that Jesus was "God manifested in the Flesh".. 1st Timothy 3:16
Jesus is God in the Flesh, Virgin Born.
Jesus said : "Before Abraham was.....I AM".
"I AM, is God's term for Himself when He spoke to Moses from the burning bush".
God said....."I am that i am".
Jesus said the SAME of Himself.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Trinitarians wish that were true. I am is not a claim of divinity but a common phrase, such as who is the one making the claim Jesus cured you? I am. Doesn’t mean I am claiming to be God.
The trinity is not in the Bible. Try again.
Behold
Well-Known Member
To say """there was no incarnation"""" is to deny the Virgin Birth of Jesus The Christ.
Are you sure you want to do that on a "Christian" forum?
Think about it more, before you proceed.
Why were the Jews trying to kill Jesus for blasphemy then? They sure thought he was claiming to be God.
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
If this is what you believe then you're admitting that Adam lost eternal life when he ate the forbidden fruit. You can quibble about words but that is what you are saying. God expelled Adam from the garden of Eden so that he couldn't eat of the tree of life and live forever. You see when it comes to immortality God chooses who will get immortality and God didn't start choosing who would get immortality until Jesus Christ and his Apostles
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
As I said God using his Holy Spirit transferred the spiritual being who is his Only Begotten Son into gthe womb of Mary.
The scriptures tell us that the Son was transferred from the spirit realm and “came to be in the likeness of men.” (Philippians 2:5-8)
...
There is incarnation, the becoming of the Word, who was God, in the flesh, according to John 1:14. According to you, there is no becoming, but a making of the Word into flesh. Whose words is the truth?
God resurrected Jesus (Acts 13:30).
The Father resurrected Jesus (Gal.1:1)
The Spirit resurrected Jesus (1 Pet.3:18)
The Son resurrected Jesus (John 2:18-22)
Tong
R2344
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
This has been refuted so many times. The word becoming flesh in no way means God. All prophets fulfilled that role.
Jesus, in particular, was the man who God said he’d select and put his words in his mouth in Deuteronomy 18:15-18.
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
Manuscripts supporting Monogenes Theos:
First of all the name Emmanuel means, "with us is God," not, "God in human flesh."
Also there was a Jew who was a prophet named Isaiah who first mentioned the name Emmanuel during King Ahaz reign. (Isaiah 7:14; 8:8)
During King Ahaz reign of the 8th century B.C.E. kings Pekah and Resin, the Kings of Israel and Syria were bent on overthrowing king Ahaz. Jehovah God remembered his kingdom Covenant with David and sent his prophet with this reassuring message: Listen, please, O house of David, Jehovah himself will give you men a sign: Look! The maiden herself will actually become pregnant, and she is giving birth to a son, and she will certainly call his name Emmanuel. Butter and honey he will eat by the time that he knows how to reject the bad and choose the good. For before the boy will know how to reject the bad and choose the good, the ground of whose two kings you are feeling a sickening dread will be left entirely.” Isaiah 7:13-16 Now this was around 8 centuries before Jesus was on Earth. So am I to consider this Jew God because he had the name Emmanuel? I don't think so. The scriptures are being very clear when it says no man has seen God at anytime. This would include when Jesus Christ was on Earth.
It was a common practice among Jews to embody the word “God,” even “Jehovah,” in Hebrew names. Even today Immanuel is the proper name of many men, none of whom are incarnations of God.
However the Angel Gabriel didn't tell Mary to name the child she was carrying Emmanuel, Mighty God, wonderful counselor, but Isaiah said he would be called these names. They were all prophetic title-names by which Messiah would be identified. Jesus lived up to the meaning of these names in every respect, and that is the sense in which they were prophetically given, to show his qualities and the good offices he would perform toward all those accepting him as Messiah. So also with his title Immanuel. He measured up to and fulfilled its meaning.
With the coming of his beloved Son to earth as the promised Messianic “seed” (Ge 3:15) and rightful heir to the throne of David, Jehovah was furnishing his greatest sign that he had not forsaken mankind or his Kingdom covenant. The title-name Immanuel, therefore, was particularly appropriate to Christ, for his presence was indeed a sign from heaven. And with this foremost representative of Jehovah among mankind, Matthew under inspiration could truly say, “With Us Is God.”
- Papyrus 66 [Papyrus Bodmer II] A.D. c. 200 (Martin), A.D. 100-150 (Hunger)
- Papyrus 75 (A.D. 175-225)
- Codex א - Sinaiticus (c. 330–360)
- Codex B - Vaticanus (c. 325–350)
- Codex C - Eprhraemi Rescriptus (5th C.)
- Apostolic Constitutions (A.D. 375 -380)
- Codex L - Regius (A.D 701-800)
- Bohairic Coptic [Codex Bodmer III]
- (A.D. 300)Diatessaron ("Out of Four") of Titan the Syrian [Arabic version] (c. 160-175)
- Syriac Peshitta (A.D 150)
- Adysh manuscript (A.D 897)-Gregordian-Georgian/Iberian version
- Opiza manuscript (A.D 913)
- Tbet’ manuscript (A.D 995)
- Minuscule 423 (A.D 1556)
First of all the name Emmanuel means, "with us is God," not, "God in human flesh."
Also there was a Jew who was a prophet named Isaiah who first mentioned the name Emmanuel during King Ahaz reign. (Isaiah 7:14; 8:8)
During King Ahaz reign of the 8th century B.C.E. kings Pekah and Resin, the Kings of Israel and Syria were bent on overthrowing king Ahaz. Jehovah God remembered his kingdom Covenant with David and sent his prophet with this reassuring message: Listen, please, O house of David, Jehovah himself will give you men a sign: Look! The maiden herself will actually become pregnant, and she is giving birth to a son, and she will certainly call his name Emmanuel. Butter and honey he will eat by the time that he knows how to reject the bad and choose the good. For before the boy will know how to reject the bad and choose the good, the ground of whose two kings you are feeling a sickening dread will be left entirely.” Isaiah 7:13-16 Now this was around 8 centuries before Jesus was on Earth. So am I to consider this Jew God because he had the name Emmanuel? I don't think so. The scriptures are being very clear when it says no man has seen God at anytime. This would include when Jesus Christ was on Earth.
It was a common practice among Jews to embody the word “God,” even “Jehovah,” in Hebrew names. Even today Immanuel is the proper name of many men, none of whom are incarnations of God.
However the Angel Gabriel didn't tell Mary to name the child she was carrying Emmanuel, Mighty God, wonderful counselor, but Isaiah said he would be called these names. They were all prophetic title-names by which Messiah would be identified. Jesus lived up to the meaning of these names in every respect, and that is the sense in which they were prophetically given, to show his qualities and the good offices he would perform toward all those accepting him as Messiah. So also with his title Immanuel. He measured up to and fulfilled its meaning.
With the coming of his beloved Son to earth as the promised Messianic “seed” (Ge 3:15) and rightful heir to the throne of David, Jehovah was furnishing his greatest sign that he had not forsaken mankind or his Kingdom covenant. The title-name Immanuel, therefore, was particularly appropriate to Christ, for his presence was indeed a sign from heaven. And with this foremost representative of Jehovah among mankind, Matthew under inspiration could truly say, “With Us Is God.”
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That in Adam all die and that includes the young and old, and that Jesus said concerning little children that of such is the the kingdom of God. That faith through which God saves man, comes from Him. That God have mercy on whom He wills. Those are all revealed in scriptures. And my view, though am not dogmatic about it, is based on that.
Don’t be sorry. I too, like you, believe in God and in Him whom He sent, Jesus Christ. We just have different view of the gospel that was preached not only to us, but also to them who lived in the past and now are dead. And we only have a different take of it.
As I said in the post you were responding to, “I am afraid that you have a somewhat different perspective of what the gospel is, as I had in the past. But keep reading God’s words and perhaps the time will come when you too will see it as I see it now. And since no flesh and blood made me see that, I believe that too will be with you when you see it.”
Now, there are not two gospels of salvation but one, and that even from the beginning. Try asking yourself, if you believe that there is only one gospel of salvation (unto eternal life and inheritance), what is that one gospel that did not change?
That one gospel was preached to men throughout all generations. It came in various ways and forms, the last time, being through the Son of God, Jesus Christ. In all of those ways and forms, what is it that is preached in all?
Tong
R2345
It seems that you did not see the time when Jesus, by the Spirit preached the gospel. It was during the time when Noah was building the ark. Meaning, when they were still alive. And the gospel is not that of damnation but of salvation.
Tong
R2346
That Jesus is the Son of man is not by qualification. Jesus claimed and said He is the Son of Man. Scriptures speaks of Him to be the Son of Man. What Jesus says is the truth. No qualification needed for that.
Tong
R2348
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