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Tong2020

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Tong2020 said:
There is incarnation, the becoming of the Word, who was God, in the flesh, according to John 1:14.
This has been refuted so many times. The word becoming flesh in no way means God. All prophets fulfilled that role.

Jesus, in particular, was the man who God said he’d select and put his words in his mouth in Deuteronomy 18:15-18.
In your mind perhaps. For truth never can be refuted. Who have refuted what is written in John 1:14? Nobody and nobody could, though many thinks they have.

<<<The word becoming flesh in no way means God. All prophets fulfilled that role.>>>

That is a strange belief.

Who do you learn from scriptures, not from the words of flesh and blood, who was received up in glory? Is it not Jesus Christ?

<<<Jesus, in particular, was the man who God said he’d select and put his words in his mouth in Deuteronomy 18:15-18.>>>

And that is only one of the many things revealed about the person of Jesus Christ. So, go on and find out what else scriptures says about Jesus Christ.

Tong
R2350
 

Brakelite

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I'm not saying the only Begotten Son of God was or is a man in heaven, although I think it's interesting that someone who believes that Jesus was a God-Man is asking me if I believe Jesus to be a man in heaven.

monogenes is defined by lexicographers as “single of its kind, only,” or “the only member of a kin or kind.”
The Greek Septuagint uses monogenes when speaking of Jephthah’s daughter, concerning whom it is written: “Now she was absolutely the only child. Besides her he had neither son nor daughter.”Judges 11:14

And as I said, the apostle John repeatedly describes the Lord Jesus Christ as the only-begotten Son of God. (John 1:14; 3:16,18; 1John4:9) and this is not in reference to his human birth or to him as just the man Jesus. As the Logos, or Word, “this one was in the beginning with God,” even “before the world was.” (John 1:1,2; 17:5,24) At that time while in his prehuman state of existence, he is described as the “only-begotten Son” whom his Father sent “into the world.”1John 4:9

What anyone thinks of Michael the Archangel, I don't worry about. I care more what the scriptures say about Michael the Archangel than what you and others believe.

At 1 Thessalonians 4:16, in speaking of the superiority of the archangel and the authority of his office, it does so in reference to the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ: “The Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first.” It is, therefore, not without significance that the only name directly associated with the word “archangel” is Michael. Jude 9

Miʹcha·el which means Who Is Like God. It's the only holy angel other than Gabriel named in the Bible, and the only one called “archangel.” (Jude 9) The first occurrence of the name is in 10th chapter of Daniel where Michael is described as “one of the foremost princes”; he came to the aid of a lesser angel who was opposed by “the prince of the royal realm of Persia.” Michael was called “the prince of Daniel’s people,” “the great prince who is standing in behalf of the sons of Daniel’s people.” (Daniel 10:13,20,21; 12:1) This points to Michael as the angel who led the Israelites through the wilderness. (Ex.23:20,21,23; 32:34; 33:2) Lending support to this conclusion is the fact that “Michael the archangel had a difference with the Devil and was disputing about Moses’ body.”—Jude 9.

Now let's talk about the phrase, "God the Son." There is nothing in the scriptures that justifies anyone inverting the greek phrase, "monogenes theos,” at John 1:18 which means, "Only Begotten God," to, "God Only Begotten." According to the most reliable manuscripts, "monogenes theos," is translated to, "Only Begotten God." Those who invert monogenes theos change it to try and prove there doctrine.
I have no issue with your reference as Michael being the OT name for Jesus. No where does scripture suggest that Michael is a mere angel... Archangel means head of the angels... Just as Biden being supreme commander of the armed forces does not mean he's a soldier.
But that aside. Why can you not see that God's only begotten Son... His one and only unique pre-incarnate offspring, is indeed the true natural Son of the Father and therefore not only of Divine origin, but divinity Himself having inherited all the divine attributes of the Father? Like Father like Son? It is in their soteriological unity that makes them one. Not two Gods. One God, two personalities. Father and Son.
It is interesting that Strong’s concordance says that the Greek word ‘genos’ has as its root ‘ginomai’ - which is associated with ‘monogenes’ (Strong’s says that ‘ginomai’ means ‘to cause to be’, ‘generate’ or to ‘become’ etc). Whilst ‘genos’ has the obvious meaning of ‘type’ or ‘kind’, it always has its application in the sense of either ‘parentage’ or ‘stock’, meaning origins and beginnings etc. This is very clearly seen in the way that this word is used in Scripture. Using the King James Version as an example, ‘genos’ is translated as
‘Kind’ or ‘kinds’ (as in of each kind) in Matthew 13:47, 17:21, Mark 9:29, 1 Corinthians 12:10 and 1 Corinthians 14:10
‘Kindred’ in Acts 4:6. Acts 7:13 and Acts 7:19
‘Countrymen’ in 2 Corinthians 11:26 ‘Offspring’ in Acts 17:28, Acts 17:29 and Revelation 22:16
‘Stock’ (as in being born of) in Acts 13:26 and Philippians 3:5
‘Born’ in Acts 18:2 and Acts 18:24
‘Nation’ (as in belonging to) in Mark 7:26 and Galatians 1:14
‘Country’ (as in belonging to) in Acts 4:36
‘Diversities’ (as of tongues and languages etc) in 1 Corinthians 12:28 ‘Generation’ (as in belonging to) in 1 Peter 2:9

From this we can see that ‘genos’ is used in the sense of ‘origins’ or ‘species’ (types or kinds) etc.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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I have no issue with your reference as Michael being the OT name for Jesus. No where does scripture suggest that Michael is a mere angel... Archangel means head of the angels... Just as Biden being supreme commander of the armed forces does not mean he's a soldier.
But that aside. Why can you not see that God's only begotten Son... His one and only unique pre-incarnate offspring, is indeed the true natural Son of the Father and therefore not only of Divine origin, but divinity Himself having inherited all the divine attributes of the Father? Like Father like Son? It is in their soteriological unity that makes them one. Not two Gods. One God, two personalities. Father and Son.
It is interesting that Strong’s concordance says that the Greek word ‘genos’ has as its root ‘ginomai’ - which is associated with ‘monogenes’ (Strong’s says that ‘ginomai’ means ‘to cause to be’, ‘generate’ or to ‘become’ etc). Whilst ‘genos’ has the obvious meaning of ‘type’ or ‘kind’, it always has its application in the sense of either ‘parentage’ or ‘stock’, meaning origins and beginnings etc. This is very clearly seen in the way that this word is used in Scripture. Using the King James Version as an example, ‘genos’ is translated as
‘Kind’ or ‘kinds’ (as in of each kind) in Matthew 13:47, 17:21, Mark 9:29, 1 Corinthians 12:10 and 1 Corinthians 14:10
‘Kindred’ in Acts 4:6. Acts 7:13 and Acts 7:19
‘Countrymen’ in 2 Corinthians 11:26 ‘Offspring’ in Acts 17:28, Acts 17:29 and Revelation 22:16
‘Stock’ (as in being born of) in Acts 13:26 and Philippians 3:5
‘Born’ in Acts 18:2 and Acts 18:24
‘Nation’ (as in belonging to) in Mark 7:26 and Galatians 1:14
‘Country’ (as in belonging to) in Acts 4:36
‘Diversities’ (as of tongues and languages etc) in 1 Corinthians 12:28 ‘Generation’ (as in belonging to) in 1 Peter 2:9

From this we can see that ‘genos’ is used in the sense of ‘origins’ or ‘species’ (types or kinds) etc.
What I think you are not understanding is the justice of The True God. It wasn't a God-Man that was lost when Adam sinned. It was a perfect sinless human that was lost. To buy back what was lost God only needs to send the exact value of what was lost. God sent a perfect sinless human. He grew up to be a perfect sinless man, the exact value which was lost. A God-Man isn't the exact value of what was lost, it's more than what was lost.
 

Brakelite

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What I think you are not understanding is the justice of The True God. It wasn't a God-Man that was lost when Adam sinned. It was a perfect sinless human that was lost. To buy back what was lost God only needs to send the exact value of what was lost. God sent a perfect sinless human. He grew up to be a perfect sinless man, the exact value which was lost. A God-Man isn't the exact value of what was lost, it's more than what was lost.
But the law that was transgressed is a Divine law, and that transgression must be atoned for by someone equal to the authority of that law.
 

Tong2020

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What I think you are not understanding is the justice of The True God. It wasn't a God-Man that was lost when Adam sinned. It was a perfect sinless human that was lost. To buy back what was lost God only needs to send the exact value of what was lost. God sent a perfect sinless human. He grew up to be a perfect sinless man, the exact value which was lost. A God-Man isn't the exact value of what was lost, it's more than what was lost.

<<<To buy back what was lost God only needs to send the exact value of what was lost.>>>

Such strange statements and biblically strange doctrine. To whom will God buy back?

Tong
R2355
 

Tong2020

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But the law that was transgressed is a Divine law, and that transgression must be atoned for by someone equal to the authority of that law.

<<<that transgression must be atoned for by someone equal to the authority of that law.>>>

I was wondering where is that taught in scriptures?

Tong
R2356
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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Between the two of us, with regards what I said, I am the one in the best position to say if you understood or not. Unless for some strange reason you think you are.

Tong
R2354

You need to find a way to understand I'm going to disagree with you if I honestly think you're wrong. I don't think you're infallible in how you reason on the scriptures. You certainly have a right to believe or reason on the scriptures how you believe is true. But so what, you're not infallible you can be wrong how you reason on the scriptures what you believe to be true, and yes I can be too. However you haven't said nothing to me that convinces me that what you say is true. I'm going to continue believing what I honestly believe is true. I'm not going to think of you any more than an imperfect human just like me and everyone else.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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But the law that was transgressed is a Divine law, and that transgression must be atoned for by someone equal to the authority of that law.

That law was given to the Jews and basically that divine law is eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand. Basically if a Jew murdered a Jew he or she forfeited their lives. Life for life. It wasn't a God-Man that was lost it was a perfect sinless Human that was lost. Therefore God sent a perfect sinless Human to buy back what was lost.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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<<<To buy back what was lost God only needs to send the exact value of what was lost.>>>

Such strange statements and biblically strange doctrine. To whom will God buy back?

Tong
R2355
Adam lost eternal life for himself and a perfect sinless society of humans living on a paradise Earth. that was in his loins when he sinned. God sent a perfect sinless Human who stayed that way until his death, buying eternal life for the world of mankind buying back that perfect human society of humans who will one day be living on a paradise Earth.
 

Behold

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Trinitarians wish that were true. I am is not a claim of divinity but a common phrase, such as who is the one making the claim Jesus cured you? I am. Doesn’t mean I am claiming to be God.

The trinity is not in the Bible. Try again.

Jesus said "before Abraham was, I Am".... long before trinitarians were around, (in case you didnt realize it yet).
Also, God said, "I AM THAT I AM", LONG before any Pope worshiped a plastic statue of "the madonna".

One more for you.
In Matthew 28 : Jesus said, that """"All power is given to Him in Heaven and on Earth."""""
So, that is a restoration of the """ eternal Power""" that He had before the Incarnation delivered Him to the world as "God in the Flesh".

What does it mean to have "all power in Heaven, and on Earth"?
Its means He's God, as only God would have this as His essence.
 

Truther

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As I said God using his Holy Spirit transferred the spiritual being who is his Only Begotten Son into gthe womb of Mary.
The scriptures tell us that the Son was transferred from the spirit realm and “came to be in the likeness of men.” (Philippians 2:5-8)

...
.....Angel incarnation. Now we have seen it all.
 

Truther

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That Jesus is the Son of man is not by qualification. Jesus claimed and said He is the Son of Man. Scriptures speaks of Him to be the Son of Man. What Jesus says is the truth. No qualification needed for that.

Tong
R2348
Who was the "man" that Jesus was the son of?
 

Brakelite

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<<<that transgression must be atoned for by someone equal to the authority of that law.>>>

I was wondering where is that taught in scriptures?

Tong
R2356
Throughout the Old Testament. Throughout the whole of scripture. The High Priest who made the final yearly atonement for Israel was the representative of the messiah, Christ, the Son of God. No-one else had the authority to enter the Most Holy Place to present the blood before the Ark containing the law of God. No-one but the Son, who gave the law at Sinai, has the authority to redeem those who rebelled against it.
The law of God is as sacred as God Himself, as it is a written reflection of the character of the Lawgiver. Thus only one as sacred as the law could atone for its transgression.
That law was given to the Jews
There were no Jews when Adam rebelled against God's Commandment.
 

Tong2020

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Tong2020 said:
Between the two of us, with regards what I said, I am the one in the best position to say if you understood or not. Unless for some strange reason you think you are.
You need to find a way to understand I'm going to disagree with you if I honestly think you're wrong. I don't think you're infallible in how you reason on the scriptures. You certainly have a right to believe or reason on the scriptures how you believe is true. But so what, you're not infallible you can be wrong how you reason on the scriptures what you believe to be true, and yes I can be too. However you haven't said nothing to me that convinces me that what you say is true. I'm going to continue believing what I honestly believe is true. I'm not going to think of you any more than an imperfect human just like me and everyone else.
That is a non issue. You can disagree all you want. However, it’s a different matter if you disagree on something you wrongly take as what I meant.

<<<I don't think you're infallible in how you reason on the scriptures.>>>

And you as well. And I am not claiming infallibility. Do you?

I believe, it is not me nor you who convinces, concerning spiritual truths, but the Holy Spirit.

Tong
R2357
 

Tong2020

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Tong2020 said:
<<<To buy back what was lost God only needs to send the exact value of what was lost.>>>

Such strange statements and biblically strange doctrine. To whom will God buy back?
Adam lost eternal life for himself and a perfect sinless society of humans living on a paradise Earth. that was in his loins when he sinned. God sent a perfect sinless Human who stayed that way until his death, buying eternal life for the world of mankind buying back that perfect human society of humans who will one day be living on a paradise Earth.
You did not answer my question.

To whom will God buy back?

Tong
R2358