For free will believers out there

[Ronald Nolette]

Good point.

Jesus went and preached unto the dead before his resurrection. This was a one time happening.

However I do not worry about a hypothetical; I know that God is just and will save all who will be saved. No one will be lost who didn’t deserve to be lost.

No one is unreachable; nothing is too hard for the Lord.

I have faith in that.

I believe that as well. I also believe as you that God will save all who will be saved.

However even the saved desereve to be lost forever. We have been given a gift we didn't earn, can't earn, didn't deserve. It was given freely to us.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I am neither a Calvinist nor an Armenian, but am one who thinks free will is not so free. We are either slaves to God or slaves to Satan. If we were free, we would not be accountable for our sin, nor would there any judgment. We could just float off into our own spiritual realm after death freely or just willfully construct our own.
Free to chose God means from a spiritually blind state, you can willfully do something to remove that blindness or at best jumpstart the process so God can cleanse you. NO, He must first draw us (and that is scriptural) and that means through an inward and outward calling. He enables us to hear and respond and we are drawn to His Word and you know the rest.
That aside, what of the billions who never heard of Christ? I heard a Pastor say that they would be judged by what they knew.
Now apart from hearing the gospel, (which would sort if be an excuse if we never did), Romans 1 says that we are still without excuse.
" because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things." ROM. 1:19-23
So my question is _ for those billions who have never heard the gospel: Since scripture says they are without excuse because of what is known about God was manifest in them and His invisible attributes were clearly seen and understood by the things that are made, if they had glorified God, were thankful and lived by that faith manifest in them, could salvation through the blood of Christ be imputed to them? Always wondered about that.

I like your post. with one exception.

Remember it is not what we know that matters, but have we accpeted the payment for our sin?

No one is righteous, and Acts 4:12 and Romans 10 clearly say that we have to hear and believe th egospel to be saved.

I heard that from a pastor as well and believed it for years. Until I read and studied Scripture deeper. This concept would mean there are two methods to be saved (three if you accept babies are saved by innocence's until that magical age of accountability) that all runs counter to Scripture.

and keeping that thought from Romans about people s conscinee excusing or accusing- it later says that every mout will be stopped and the whole world guilty before God!

If people can be saved apart from teh gospel, then we are fools to go and preach to unreached peoples. They could possibly lose the salvation they have through what they knew!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

first thanks for the reply, second, but one would learn the word "IF", 2 Chronicles 7:14 "If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land."

well who is these people? ............... that's right, God's people. so is all people God's People? yes, maybe not a son right now, but he made us all, the Good the bad, and the ugly, but do he not take care of us all?.

so if, if, and if is not set, that's why it's "if".

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

The first answer is no! we are not all Gods people!

As God clearly teaches in ephesians 2 we are by nature children of disobdience! And you forget John 1:

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

We have to be BORN AGAIN in order to become a child of God!

 

[Nancy]

Abraham SAW My day , HE saw it and HE rejoiced . The gospel as even paul and others said , Was preached to abraham .
HE KNEW . HE KNEW a savoir was coming . YES INDEED . Abraham rejoiced to see my DAY .
and the jews said but you are not yet even fifty years old and how can you say ................
AND I LOVE what JESUS says next . BEFORE ABRAHAM WAS ...............I AM .
and believe me , they knew what he meant by that . THEY knew what the title I AM meant . THEY had read moses .
THEY just didnt really heed MOSES or the prophets . HAD they , they would not have condemned the very one they all spoke of .
NOW LEAP UP and PRAISE THE LORD .

Kudos bro! Good post.
The OT saints looked "forward" in faith for their Messiah like we look back, in faith that He did come so, same God (The Great I Am-I love that too) same Christ, same Spirit and He NEVER changes. I love that He never changes, even though our circumstances do ALL the time.
What a ROCK we have to lift us and keep us firmly planted in Him, Amen bro!

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

No, you must believe in His Son (that He is also the only true God) and receive Him for who He says He is (Mark 4:36) as the great I AM (John 8:24).

Tell me Justbyfaith what is Genesis 3:15 talking about, or are you ignorant of that faith too. Faith in The True God is what makes a person righteous in the the eyes of the True God. The first prophecy of the scriptures is Genesis 3:15. We are to exercise faith in that prophecy that the True God made because that prophecy is how the True God is going to undo everything that Satan has done and will do. It's how The True God is saving the world of mankind. Genesis 3:15 is a promise from The True God of a redeemer, that redeemer is Jesus Christ. Like I said exercising faith in the True God is what makes a person righteous to the True God. I don't expect you to believe in that kind of faith Justbyfaith. You knew about Genesis 3:15 and you try to make out that The True God didn't make this prophecy and you try to make out that this prophecy wasn't about a promise of a redeemer.

 

[justbyfaith]

Tell me Justbyfaith what is Genesis 3:15 talking about, or are you ignorant of that faith too. Faith in The True God is what makes a person righteous in the the eyes of the True God. The first prophecy of the scriptures is Genesis 3:15. We are to exercise faith in that prophecy that the True God made because that prophecy is how the True God is going to undo everything that Satan has done and will do. It's how The True God is saving the world of mankind. Genesis 3:15 is a promise from The True God of a redeemer, that redeemer is Jesus Christ. Like I said exercising faith in the True God is what makes a person righteous to the True God. I don't expect you to believe in that kind of faith Justbyfaith. You knew about Genesis 3:15 and you try to make out that The True God didn't make this prophecy and you try to make out that this prophecy wasn't about a promise of a redeemer.

Most certainly, Genesis 3:15 is about a promise of a redeemer.

When you get to Isaiah 9:6, if you take it at face value and do not allow the arguments of men to deceive you, you will understand that that redeemer is God.

 

[Grailhunter]

Our calling is the Great Commission. How each of us specifically go about spreading the Good News is a different calling.

Jesus command to NOT resist evil is universal. We are in no way called to seek out and destroy evil. In fact, we are prohibited from doing that. See Romans 12:9-21

Well well well....tell ya what, I am going to resist evil!!!

 

[Grailhunter]

Most certainly, Genesis 3:15 is about a promise of a redeemer.

When you get to Isaiah 9:6, if you take it at face value and do not allow the arguments of men to deceive you, you will understand that that redeemer is God.

Hey hey JBF.....Having fun? God bless

 

[Grailhunter]

 

[Behold]

Serious respondents only.

John 3:16

"whosoever"......is ALL the world.
That is God calling ALL the world to the Cross, and "whosoever" will believe, shall be saved.

= Whosoever, is everyone.

Its this verse... "ALL that call on the name of The Lord, shall be saved".

Its this verse.....

"to as MANY as believed, God gave them power to become.....the Son's of God".

Christ said.....>"if i be lifted up (on the Cross) i will Draw ALL MEN"".

See that "All"? = That means "all".

And who is the All? Its John 3:16....>>"whosoever will believe".

Jesus said : "Go into all the WORLD and preach the Gospel TO ALL."

Jesus didnt say....>"only preach to the predestined elect">

The CROSS OF CHRIST is planted in the WORLD because the Savior bleeding from The Cross ... His Blood, is being given to "ALL who will come",= SALVATION.

Thats a worldwide and universal OFFER.

"If I be lifted up, i will draw ALL MEN"..

All means ALL.

 

[101G]

The first answer is no! we are not all Gods people!

As God clearly teaches in ephesians 2 we are by nature children of disobdience! And you forget John 1:

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

We have to be BORN AGAIN in order to become a child of God!

nope, he made us all, and Matthew 5:43 "Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy."
Matthew 5:44 "But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;"
Matthew 5:45 "That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust."
Matthew 5:46 "For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?"
Matthew 5:47 "And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?"
Matthew 5:48 "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."

now, before you became a child of God, no one else can be a child of God? that's sounds a little selfish to me.

and that takes me right back to "WHOSOEVER".

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Renniks]

Well being saved for 46+ years now, I think I know what is needed to know about Jesus for one to be saved.

One has to trust in His death and Resurrections for their sin. that is all!

But what about the billions who have never heard the gospel once? Does your theology have another way they get saved?

Lol, so how long you've been saved has something to do with how much you know?
I don't think so.
My Bible tells me that men are without excuse because of what? I'm sure you know this one. Being saved for 46 years and all.

 

[quietthinker]

So how do they get saved?

Teh bible is clear that unless you confess and believe you cannot be saved! I think you underestimate teh Holiness and Righteousness of God and make Him to be a sentimental guy.

The Bible says that the Gentiles as Gentiles we without hope and without God in the world.

Teh Bible says none seek after God!

What evidence do you offer to support your persuasion and if it contradicts the clear unambiguous teachings of the Inspired Word of God, why we should reject the Bible and accept your persuasion?

The book the bible is for the purpose of educating us re God's character. It is not for the purpose of using it to support a 'scene' where its members quote left and right and feel justified in their pride of being able to do so. Satan can quote better than any.

Do you not understand that confessing Jesus is not about saying the words 'I believe in Jesus'?.....it is no more believing in Jesus than saying you will tell the truth by putting your hand on the bible and swearing to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

The questions you ask are because you do not understand God's character. If you did the purposes of Jesus and the scripture would be clear.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

John 3:16

"whosoever"......is ALL the world.
That is God calling ALL the world to the Cross, and "whosoever" will believe, shall be saved.

= Whosoever, is everyone.

Its this verse... "ALL that call on the name of The Lord, shall be saved".

Its this verse.....

"to as MANY as believed, God gave them power to become.....the Son's of God".

Christ said.....>"if i be lifted up (on the Cross) i will Draw ALL MEN"".

See that "All"? = That means "all".

And who is the All? Its John 3:16....>>"whosoever will believe".

Jesus said : "Go into all the WORLD and preach the Gospel TO ALL."

Jesus didnt say....>"only preach to the predestined elect">

The CROSS OF CHRIST is planted in the WORLD because the Savior bleeding from The Cross ... His Blood, is being given to "ALL who will come",= SALVATION.

Thats a worldwide and universal OFFER.

"If I be lifted up, i will draw ALL MEN"..

All means ALL.

Right. And ALL who reject Christ and do not believe will not be saved and the wrath of God abides in them.

 

[Wrangler]

there is nothing in Scripture to imply that people gert a second chance after death.

I think this is the wrong interpretation of Judgement Day. Are you familiar with 'second death' in Scripture?

 

[Wrangler]

No my brother, let us not be mistaken. Every one has exactly one human lifetime to hear and recieve the gospel and be saved! Once death comes, the sentencing takes place!

So, in your estimation, all babies who die are damned?

 

[amigo de christo]

Kudos bro! Good post.
The OT saints looked "forward" in faith for their Messiah like we look back, in faith that He did come so, same God (The Great I Am-I love that too) same Christ, same Spirit and He NEVER changes. I love that He never changes, even though our circumstances do ALL the time.
What a ROCK we have to lift us and keep us firmly planted in Him, Amen bro!

Let the LORD be praised . Yes indeed , oh let the LORD be praised .

 

[amigo de christo]

Praise the LORD
Praise the LORD , let the peoples rejoice . Let all sing to the glorious King .
Praise the LORD , PRAISE teh LORD , let the earth hear his voice
Praise the LORD , praise teh LORD , let the peoples rejoice
O COME to the FATHER through JESUS the SON
LET the LORD BE PRAISED . Sing with much thanksgiving unto the Lord .

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Most certainly, Genesis 3:15 is about a promise of a redeemer.

When you get to Isaiah 9:6, if you take it at face value and do not allow the arguments of men to deceive you, you will understand that that redeemer is God.

I'm not going to a different subject on this post.
It's faith in the Only True God that a man or woman is considered righteous in the eyes of The Only True God. People exercising faith in the fact that The Only True God knows what is in the best interests or what isn't in the best interests of what he created has always been the way The True God considers someone righteous or unrighteous. Those who exercise that kind of faith do so because of their love for the True God. Those who don't exercise that kind of faith don't because of their lack of love for the True God.

 

[justbyfaith]

I'm not going to a different subject on this post.

Okay. I suppose then that this discussion is over and done with.

Maybe go here:

A Christian who deny Jesus is God in Flesh