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Featured For the sake of teaching this little lamb...

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by Adoration, Jun 25, 2020.

  1. Adoration

    Adoration Well-Known Member

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    This is what someone said to me a few days ago... and I found it to be most interesting... I tried to private message this person to ask for explanation... but... I do not think they realize I TRULY DID NOT understand... and so I am making this a discussion...
    PLEASE... I am ASKING for definitions of these terms and how they go together.
    NO BASHING... NO ARGUING... I TRULY want to know about this topic.


    Could someone explain to me what Evangelicalism means... and what Sola Scriptura means with reference to why someone would state they HATE it. What other way is Salvation based on ?? I honestly have never heard anyone claim to ADD onto the works of Christ on the Cross.

    I could look this stuff up... and I may regret asking on here... but.... this is truly a new thing for me... I have honestly never heard it before... TEACH ME... I have cookies... I will share...
     
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  2. theophilus

    theophilus Active Member

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    The word evangelical is derived from the Greek word "evangel", which means "good news". It refers to the message that Jesus died for our sins and rose from the dead. The primary meaning is someone who believes this message. Like other words it can be misused and acquire new meanings so if someone calls himself an evangelical be sure to find out what he really believes. Since most evangelicals supported Trump's candidacy for president some use it to describe a person's political beliefs.

    Sola Scriptura means relying only on the Bible. Some groups think that the Bible cannot by understood unless interpreted correctly so the rely on traditional interpretations as will as on the Bible itself. Here is a good explanation:

    Sola Scriptura | CARM.org

    This site, CARM.org | Equipping the Saints. Reaching the Lost., is a good place to go to find answers about the Bible.
     
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  3. Adoration

    Adoration Well-Known Member

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    @theophilus .... THANK YOU.... What a BRILLIANT first post... I am assuming that when someone would state they HATE evangelicalism and sola scriptura... it is in defence of supporting the power of what they call SACRAMENTS ?? Is this the issue here ?? Again... I am not asking for opinions... only the definition of what the problem is.

    Ok... I should have read the CARM definition of Sola Scriptura before writing this post... I see that this is the issue... Sola Scriptura and Evangelicalism are the enemies of the Catholic church who believe in the power of the SACRAMENTS.
    I really should have looked this up myself.. but I did not... I get it now.

    I have never heard such a description... My goodness all the labels... all the rules and doctrines... It's no wonder I stay away from all these things.... they only cause divisions... factions.. and absolute ARROGANCE of believers.

    Anyways... My intention truly was simply to get answers... I should have remembered that CARM is a good place for these types of questions.
    Thank you again .
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2020
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  4. Philip James

    Philip James Well-Known Member

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    Hello Adoration,

    Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ on behalf of his body, which is the church,

    What do you think Paul means here?

    Peace be with you!
     
  5. Adoration

    Adoration Well-Known Member

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    @Philip James ... I have no idea what that scripture means... but I have a feeling you are going to use it to qualify why some churches ADD rituals and teach they are NEEDED to be SAVED... that is NOT a discussion I am interested in having... MY question has been answered here.. and I am content with the answer. I now understand what the dilemma is... MY opinion of whether it's right or wrong is NOT something I care to spend my time or energy on... I left Catholicism many years ago... NO desire to go back or discuss it with anyone. NO OFFENSE... HONEST.

    Again... I really should have looked it up myself. But I did get the explanation in a way that I understand... THANK YOU.
     
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  6. Giuliano

    Giuliano Well-Known Member

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    Knowing the origin of the word may help a little; but I don't understand how many people use the word "Evangelicalism" today. I don't see much of a connection between the people who call themselves "evangelicals" and how it's used in the Bible.
    Solo scriptura, as Theophilus said, is supposed to be depending on scripture alone. Does it work? I doubt it since both Luther and Zwingli said they believed in it after breaking with the Catholic Church -- but they couldn't agree on things. When you see so many Protestants sects, each saying they depend solely on the Bible, you have to wonder why they disagree with each other so much.

    Catholics say the Bible must be interpreted in line with Tradition. While I tend to agree with them on that for the most part, I also think the Catholic Church failed to maintain that Tradition completely. I think they substituted a "tradition of men" in a few cases and then claimed it was the Tradition handed down by the Apostles.

    Jesus said a few things about traditions -- criticizing the Jews of his time for their "tradition of men." They had departed from the correct Tradition. Thus they did not know how to intepret the Scriptures properly. For example, the Sadduccees were the worst, I'd say. They did not believe in life after death. They said when you're dead, you're dead. They also rejected most of the books other Jews accepted, so Jesus quoted from Exodus which they did accept.

    Matthew 22:31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
    32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

    Regarding this, we have some Christians around today who believe what the Sadduccees did. It probably does little good trying to show them they are following the wrong tradition, a tradition of men, by quoting that. On this, I'd say the Catholics have preserved the right Tradition. Along came other people trying to rely on the Bible alone, and they fell into believing what the Sadducees did. They rely on other passages to "prove" it while ignoring Matthew 22:31.
     
  7. Josho

    Josho Millennial Christian Staff Member

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    The word evangelical seems to be one used a lot more in the USA, compared to Australia, it's not really a word thrown around all that much here.

    In the US politics I have seen that they even have polls in how many Evangelicals support Republican, how many support Democrat, etc, etc. It's really strange how they even hold political rallys in US Churches, well it's pretty strange for the Australian viewing it from Aus anyway haha.

    @Adoration

    Is the word Evangelical used much in Canada? I would expect some similarities to Aus, since we are both in commonwealth nations. But in saying that you are also right next to the US.
     
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  8. Adoration

    Adoration Well-Known Member

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    Thank you @Giuliano for the straight forward answer... which is WHAT I WANTED this thread to be... a definition based one rather than a debating type one.... Your answer was much appreciated by this little lamb.
     
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  9. Adoration

    Adoration Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure @Josho ... Maybe that is why I have not really heard this term... and YES you are right ... the Americans use it a lot... and yes again.. it's the EVANGELICAL CHRISTIANS who are all Pro-trump... That term I have heard a lot.

    The sola scriptura was another term I had never heard of... but that is probably because I did not ever learn the history of the Catholic church.
    I think I now understand what was meant by the term.... "I loathe Evangelicalism and Sola Scriptura".... it makes sense to this little lamb now... so with that said... I welcome others to comment on this thread... but truly ... this is not a debate... I started this thread for the sake of DEFINITION of two terms... and what was meant in the context of having a problem with such a thing. Blessings on everyone. ~ Adoration
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2020
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  10. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    problem might be that "definitions" can be subjective too, fwiw. "evangelical" becomes "proselytizing," "sola scriptura" becomes "according to MY interpretation," and etc
     
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  11. Adoration

    Adoration Well-Known Member

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    I wanted to understand the context of the definitions in the light of WHY someone would state they hate them... I believe that was achieved without getting too in depth of personal definitions.... AGAIN... the next time I don't know something... I will simply look it up... Someone reminded me that CARM is a wonderful resource for such things.
     
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  12. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    Good, but some people have another definition especially for evangelical which they do not explain... presuming perhaps that we all understand. We don't because there is more than one definition. Some people speak their own brand of 'churchese' [their own language used among people in their own group] presuming that everyone here will know what they are talking about... They are wrong. It is a good idea to communicate if we really want to communicate. But... then again remember what happened with the Tower of Babel!
     
  13. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    But... is not only or even necessarily always Catholic for the opposition. People are individuals and even some in precisely the same church group hold sharply different positions of some issues. Of course some people simply parrot what they have heard someone say and adhere to it blindly!
     
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  14. theophilus

    theophilus Active Member

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    You need to always keep in mind that sometime different people will have a different definition of a word. When having a conversation with someone you need to make sure you are both defining a word in the same way.

    I will give you an example of how I was once misled by a false definition. In John 3:5, Jesus says, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God." I once attended a church that taught that being born of water meant being baptized in water. I accepted their definition and so was baptized, became a member of that church, and thought that I was a Christian. I later learned that water baptism does not guarantee salvation and the water is often used in the Bible as a symbol of the Bible. I put my faith in Jesus Christ and so I really became a Christian. I was later baptized in water again because it is commanded but I realized that the act of baptism did not save me.

    There are false cults that use Bible terms but have a different meaning for them. When you read something or listen to someone speak you need to make sure he uses the same definitions for words that you do.
     
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  15. Adoration

    Adoration Well-Known Member

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    I absolutely understand and agree with what you have said... I started this thread with the purpose of UNDERSTANDING what someone had stated to me... I feel like I have gleaned a bit of an understanding as to what was meant... What I cannot discern fully is the passion with which the word LOATHE is used... LOL... However... If I match it with mine with regards to false doctrines... I can certainly get a good general idea.
     
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  16. historyb

    historyb Well-Known Member

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    To me evangelicalism is any who are not part of Traditional Churches such as Anglican/Episcopalian, Catholic, Orthodox, Lutheran, Methodist, and I may be missing some. Sola Scriptura means Scripture alone. As many know here I reject the ideas of evangelicalism and any solas, and I hate it the same reason that you hate Catholicism. Hope that answers your question now that I understand it better. :)
     
  17. historyb

    historyb Well-Known Member

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    Yes and being a tutor I should know that, my boss always says explain and don't talk as if your students know what your talking about. Sorry all, I just feel so much hostility here that I circled the wagon
     
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  18. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    If you are really planning to be around here much you probably should learn not to let that hostility overwhelm you. I understand the difficulty but often it is simply the nature of the beasts on this forum... as well as other places.

    "I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts." Ecc 3:18

    Help us dear Lord!
     
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  19. historyb

    historyb Well-Known Member

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    I have little choice I don't belong anywhere really, unlike most I have no home. Here I am hated because I am not an evangelical and elsewhere I am not welcomed because I am not Catholic, Orthodox, etc.
     
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  20. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    Well as we see when we read the gospels, they either loved Jesus or hated him. As events moved toward the end of his road as a man of flesh many turned away from him. At the very end his closest disciples, the ones who would be called Apostles, all ran away fearing for their own lives.

    How many did Jesus require as followers in order to complete his work?

    "From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
    Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away" John 6:66-67

    If Peter and the 12 had answered they would also go away, Jesus would have simply walked on alone: No compromises!

    "Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also." John 15:20


     
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