Forgiveness is to those who keep the commandments of the Lord.

[marks]

As I have argued before, a child who has problems in one area but normally does all his father asks him to can still be rightly and properly referred to as an obedient child.

While I was in complete disobedience to my father, when I lived with him around ages 15-16, he was none the less my father.

Father / son relationship was not determined by behavior, but by actual relationship. He had begotten me, therefore, I was/am his son.

I've been born from God. That's what I believe happened. I am the spirit child of God, begotten by Him, and am therefore in this "Father/son" relationship, and my Dad just also happens to be the Almighty, the Creator of All, Who loves me, and gave Himself for me!

It's really hard to fathom! But I put a lot more in this faith that this is what God has done than in my opinions of "How I'm doing so far".

I'm like an unskilled pilot steering a wrecked ship! But God has promised He's hard at work inside me.

Much love!

 

[Amazed@grace]

That's actual trust, and an actual salvation.

I really believe He's really saved me!

Much love!

Amen! He gave his life to seal that truth eternally. Thank you Immanuel.

 

[Behold]

Behold, read Post #6, and then respond to the question I posed at the bottom of Post #22.

OK.

I already know the heresy that JBF teaches for the last 8 months im here.
He's the Water + Works Grace Denier who will then say...."oh no, i didnt mean that", and then the next Thread, denies the Cross, and goes right back to "here is how you work your way to heaven", or "here is how you lose your salvation, if you dont do these works".
So, ive seen so much of this from Him...
He'll probably ring in now with ...>"no i dont teach that commandment keeping is the reason God forgives you".
Yet, the THREAD we are on, is teaching exactly that heresy, according to the TITLE.

And you wrote this.. HiddeninHim.

"Now, do you agree then that we are only saved if we choose to lead lives characterized by obedience, or do you feel that we can be saved even if we choose NOT to lead lives characterized by obedience to God?"""


Let me answer your question with a question, first..... that is the answer.
Its this.
On the day that God called you to the Cross, did He say to any of us..."now, i'll save you, if you promise to DO all THIS after i save you".
= Nope. As had he demanded anything, then Salvation is not a GIFT, as it would not have been based on God's MERCY, alone.

Listen Reader.
Did you do anything to get Jesus to shed His blood for you, other then your SINNING?
Jesus's Blood is for your SIN.
He didn't shed it for your good behavior.

Think about that one.

So, what is the "all this"?
The all this, is the good works, the Torah Keeping, the loving your neighbor, the commandment keeping"......
See that stuff?
Thats all WORKS....Its DEEDS. Its SELF EFFORT.
And......can you not do all that before you are saved?
Sure you can.
Can you do all that, and never be saved?
Sure can.
So, can any of it save you?
NOPE !

THen how could not doing it cause you to not be saved, if you didn't do it AFTER you are SAVED, when it can't save you to begin with?
How can that which can't save you, cause you to lose your salvation?

See, this is the thing about people who teach works and self effort, as their false Gospel. Galatians 1:8
They dont seem to have the common sense to realize that what can't save you to begin with......all those works.......can't cause you to lose your salvation, after you are saved.. if you dont do all that stuff.
What can't save you, can't possibly cause you to lose it.

God's Salvation, OMITS our self effort as a part of it.
Salvation is NOT.....The Cross + YOUR self EFFORT
Salvation is not... The Cross + Commandment keeping
The Legalist, like justbyfaith, can never see this.......they never can see it.
That is the power of deception.
Its incredibly mind blinding and the devil is very good at keeping you blinded once he has you there.

 

[amigo de christo]

I think...bottom line, keep trusting Him and He will see to you. If anything someone says leads you to more trust and the building up of your trust, latch onto it with both hands, because God saves you by His kindness, through trust (by grace, through faith.)

If you work on anything, let it be to trust Him more and more and worry less and less.

If anyone begins to talk about holiness and it does not build up your trust, do not latch onto it, because I assure you, if God has begun to take them that way, it has been through their trust that it has occurred.

well you were half way right . but you forgot , it says save some through compassion , others through fear
hating even the garment spotted by the flesh . We cant have a lop sided message .
WE must continue to behold BOTH the GOODNESS of GOD and The SEVERITY of GOD .
otherwise we create a false goodness . Just like many today have . We must behold both .

 

[Hidden In Him]

You may have a bad day, or month, or year, but salvation is from God, not from me. I believed God, and God counted that to me for righteousness. So God made me righteous, by rebirthing me in the death and resurrection of Jesus. So now I'm joined to Jesus, His life is my life, And He's got a project on His hands!

Yes Mark, He has a project on His hands with all of us. My question, though, is what of those who never end up cooperating with that work?

It plays out in our lives differently, depending on how well we overcome our flesh. When the new man overcomes the old man, the flesh, the world, all these that are against us, righteousness results. Faith which expresses itself through love.

When we are not overcoming, then the junk leaks through. It feels like rebellion, because it's the feeling of the flesh. It thinks like Old Man because its the thoughts of the old man. Sin.

These two statements come close to acknowledging what I am asking you to acknowledge: That while we are saved by faith, if we are given the chance to live out our lives, we must enter into a life characterized by obedience or we are not operating in genuine faith and we will not be saved, correct? You agree with that statement or no?

 

[Amazed@grace]

Okay. You are saved by grace, not through trust. you do not have to keep trusting or growing in trust. Do you like that better? We can just strike through the through the trust part.

We are saved by grace through faith. Faith=Trust.

 

[Hidden In Him]

On the day that God called you to the Cross, did He say to any of us..."now, i'll save you, if you promise to DO all THIS after i save you".

Does He ask us to make Him Lord when we get saved by faith?

 

[Mungo]

Psa 103:12, As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.
Psa 103:13, Like as a father pitieth his children, so the LORD pitieth them that fear him.
Psa 103:14, For he knoweth our frame; he remembereth that we are dust.
Psa 103:15, As for man, his days are as grass: as a flower of the field, so he flourisheth.
Psa 103:16, For the wind passeth over it, and it is gone; and the place thereof shall know it no more.
Psa 103:17, But the mercy of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;
Psa 103:18, To such as keep his covenant, and to those that remember his commandments to do them.

Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and for ever (Hebrews 13:8).

Jhn 15:12, This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
Jhn 15:13, Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
Jhn 15:14, Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

Jesus laid down His life for His friends. You are His friend, if you do what He commands.

What does He command; but that we love one another?

Rom 13:8, Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9, For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Rom 13:10, Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

We are to "love thy neighbor as thyself"; and this consists of obeying God's commandments:

1Jo 5:3, For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

2Jo 1:6, And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

The God of the Old Testament and the God of the New Testament are one and the same God. Jesus is the same YHWH. (Hebrews 13:8).

So, the commandments in the Old Covenant, as moral tenets which we are to follow, are still valid. They are the commandments of the LORD (Jesus).

Of course, commandments as concerning animal sacrifices are fulfilled in that Jesus died on the Cross as the fulfillment of those types. However, moral tenets are binding when it comes to what we read in the Old Testament. If we love our neighbor as ourselves, we will fulfill them; we will not violate them in our behaviour.

And I will say that the scriptures above do show that forgiveness is applied to those who, as a general rule, keep the commandments of the LORD.

It is not that we are saved through law-keeping.

It is that, if we are truly born again, we are inclined towards obedience.

There is a repentance that must take place in your heart in order to become a recipient of the Lord's forgiveness.

You must become Jesus' friend; and only then has He given His life for you.

You are His friend if you obey His commandments.

Jesus is the God of the Old and New Testaments.

If you love the Lord your God with all of your heart, soul, mind, and strength; and your neighbor as yourself: you will fulfill the righteousness of the law in your behaviour.

You will not be violating any law if you bear the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23).

The venue by which we obtain this righteousness is apart from the law; nevertheless this righteousness is attested to by the law and the prophets that it is righteousness indeed (Romans 3:21).

You must obtain the Holy Spirit through faith in Christ (Galatians 3:14); and then, as you walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit, the righteousness of the law will be fulfilled in you (Romans 8:4).

There is no law that will condemn your behaviour if you bear the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23).

So, you will not be disobedient to the commandments of the Lord if you are born again of the Holy Spirit. You will be a friend of Jesus according to the scriptures in question.

I haven't read all the replies so perhaps this has been answered:
Surely if we kept all the commandments we would not need forgiveness.
Forgiveness is for those who do not keep the commandments - and repent.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I haven't read all the replies so perhaps this has been answered:
Surely if we kept all the commandments we would not need forgiveness.
Forgiveness is for those who do not keep the commandments - and repent.

Hello, Mungo, and good to see you again.

Forgiveness will always be needed because we will always be imperfect, but He does ask us to lead lives characterized by obedience, yes?

 

[amigo de christo]

Does He ask us to make Him Lord when we get saved by faith?

you might wanna quote some of JESUS last words to His own .
As in ......
GO ye into ALL NATIONS baptizing them in the name of the Father , Son and Holy ghost , TEACHING THEM
to observe , TO DO all things that i have taught you .
JESUS told them he who hears and does not my sayings , HAS NO FOUNDATION . THEY are not HIS .
James would later write and explain dead faith verses true faith .
We gotta stick to our bibles . Many men teach many things that line up with the doctrines of men . They twist things in order
to fit their own teaching . Let us simply learn and grow in the grace of GOD , learning and reading our bibles .
And now i leave us with three words . PRAISE THE LORD .

 

[amigo de christo]

Does He ask us to make Him Lord when we get saved by faith?

He also said this . WHY DO YOU CALL ME LORD LORD and yet DO NOT the THINGS which i command .
So much for hearers only , they decieve themselves . ITS why i been pleading
for folks to make sure we are following the BIBLICAL JESUS and not men , not another version of said JESUS .
Now , LEAP UP AND PRAISE THE GLORIOUS KING .
One thing i have learned , THERE JUST AINT NO SUCH THING as TOO MUCH PRAISE and THANKSGIVING UNTO THE LORD .

 

[Hidden In Him]

you might wanna quote some of JESUS last words to His own .
As in ......
GO ye into ALL NATIONS baptizing them in the name of the Father , Son and Holy ghost , TEACHING THEM
to observe , TO DO all things that i have taught you .
JESUS told them he who hears and does not my sayings , HAS NO FOUNDATION . THEY are not HIS .
James would later write and explain dead faith verses true faith .
We gotta stick to our bibles . Many men teach many things that line up with the doctrines of men . They twist things in order
to fit their own teaching . Let us simply learn and grow in the grace of GOD , learning and reading our bibles .
And now i leave us with three words . PRAISE THE LORD .

Glad to see you lining up on what I think is the right side of the issue there, brother.

Amen to your words.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I like this quote, and good to see you around again, Stunnedbygrace.

My one caveat to this is that the holiness of God IS stressed in both the Old and New Testaments. As Pauls said, "Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God." So it does qualify that it ought to be taught if in the Spirit of God rather than in a spirit of condemnation, which scripture says is not of God.

Good to see you again too.
Listen, I have recently begun to understand some about holiness and I can have a conversation about that, as far as my understanding currently is, but it is up to God to take someone there and no one can begin to be led into that, or to there, in any way but through radical, radical trust.

But these men and women are, for the most part, being practiced in trust (even the ones who insist vociferously they do not have to continue in trust do not actually leave off trust! ) so at some point you have to leave them to God because they arent going to understand you yet!

 

[Hidden In Him]

He also said this . WHY DO YOU CALL ME LORD LORD and yet DO NOT the THINGS which i command .
So much for hearers only , they decieve themselves . ITS why i been pleading
for folks to make sure we are following the BIBLICAL JESUS and not men , not another version of said JESUS .

Amen again.

Now , LEAP UP AND PRAISE THE GLORIOUS KING .
One thing i have learned , THERE JUST AINT NO SUCH THING as TOO MUCH PRAISE and THANKSGIVING UNTO THE LORD .

And again. Worshipping Him right now as a matter of fact.

 

[amigo de christo]

I haven't read all the replies so perhaps this has been answered:
Surely if we kept all the commandments we would not need forgiveness.
Forgiveness is for those who do not keep the commandments - and repent.

Lets reword this . SURELY IF WE FOLLOWED THE SPIRIT then we would not fullfill the lusts of the flesh .
And if one does err by taking heed to the flesh , CORRECT that one and do so fast .
I like the way both JESUS and paul taught . WHEN it came to sin , IT was GO and sin no more
or as paul said , LET IT NOT once be named . We must get much more serious against error .
I fear many have been lulled to sleep by another jesus , by an acroynm and have taken off
from heeding the SPIRIT cause to them obediance and correction is seen as legalism . scary times my friend .
You be encouraged . And let the LORD be praised and thanked continuously .

 

[amigo de christo]

Good to see you again too.
Listen, I have recently begun to understand some about holiness and I can have a conversation about that, as far as my understanding currently is, but it is up to God to take someone there and no one can begin to be led into that, or to there, in any way but through radical, radical trust.

But these men and women are, for the most part, being practiced in trust (even the ones who insist vociferously they do not have to continue in trust do not actually leave off trust! ) so at some point you have to leave them to God because they arent going to understand you yet!

So when peter himself said BE YE HOLY , then he was acting in error . NO .
WE sure can remind folks to be HOLY . I mean if we have the SPIRIT in us , it unctions us to remind folks about many things .
I think sometimes people forget the SPIRIT actually works through the members for this very reason to BUILD that church up .
to correct fast and to ensure growth and not destruction .

 

[Hidden In Him]

Good to see you again too.
Listen, I have recently begun to understand some about holiness and I can have a conversation about that, as far as my understanding currently is, but it is up to God to take someone there and no one can begin to be led into that, or to there, in any way but through radical, radical trust.

Absolutely.

But these men and women are, for the most part, being practiced in trust (even the ones who insist vociferously they do not have to continue in trust do not actually leave off trust! ) so at some point you have to leave them to God because they arent going to understand you yet!

Agreed again. I leave the work of grace in people's lives to the Lord. I only stand up for what I feel is proper doctrine, so that they do not get cheated into thinking He requires nothing of them as a result of it. He wants what's best for us, and it is to be conformed to His beautiful Image.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I'm like an unskilled pilot steering a wrecked ship! But God has promised He's hard at work inside me.

I really, really like this. Sorry I laughed. But it's so apt a description and is exactly why trust is the only part He gives us.

 

[amigo de christo]

Let all that breathes air and requires oxygene to sustain life , LEAP UP AND PRAISE THE GLORIOUS LORD .
Yes indeed .

 

[marks]

On the day that God called you to the Cross, did He say to any of us..."now, i'll save you, if you promise to DO all THIS after i save you".

That's a good point!