Forgiveness Through Forgiving

[RedFan]

In the Sermon on the Mount, right at the end of the Lord’s Prayer, Jesus is quoted as saying “For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you” (Matt. 6:14).

Taken literally, Matt. 6:14 is unconditional, absolute, in the form “If X, then Y,” i.e., if we forgive we will be forgiven. Period. Without more. If the “more” that others suggest is necessary for forgiveness of sin (faith in Christ being a particularly popular suggestion) is indeed necessary, then Matt. 6:14 viewed in isolation is literally untrue.

Is it true? Is forgiving others, without more, enough to have our own sins forgiven?

 

[quietthinker]

If we insist on not forgiving others we will arrive at a place where we no longer believe God will or can forgive us....subsequently Matthew 6:14.

 

[RedFan]

If we do not forgive others we will arrive at a place where we no longer believe God will or can forgive us....subsequently Matthew 6:14.

And if we DO forgive others, what then?

 

[quietthinker]

And if we DO forgive others, what then?

God forgives....the story of the paralytic tells us that God forgives before any of our requests....and as evidence this is the case, the paralytic walks out.

 

[quietthinker]

forgiving others is indicative of a persons response to the spirits prompting ....even if a person is not aware of it

 

[RedFan]

Someone who never knows Jesus can forgive everyone who does him wrong, all his life. Are his sins forgiven or not?

 

[stephen64]

Someone who never knows Jesus can forgive everyone who does him wrong, all his life. Are his sins forgiven or not?

No
Can I ask. Are we supposed to forgive before the offender asks us to forgive them, or after?

 

[quietthinker]

Someone who never knows Jesus can forgive everyone who does him wrong, all his life. Are his sins forgiven or not?

I think so

 

[RedFan]

No
Can I ask. Are we supposed to forgive before the offender asks us to forgive them, or after?

My vote is for "before," but I'm no expert on forgiving people.

So, by answering "No" may I assume you are in the "Matt. 6:14 is literally untrue" camp?

 

[stephen64]

My vote is for "before," but I'm no expert on forgiving people.

So, by answering "No" may I assume you are in the "Matt. 6:14 is literally untrue" camp?

Do you have a heavenly Father if you reject His Son?

My view is, for your sins to be forgiven you need a saviour from sin, if you do not have one you remain guilty, and not forgiven

 

[quietthinker]

While we were yet sinners, Christ died for the ungodly Romans 5:8
Jesus death indicates his affection for even the worst of us. In his dying moments he verbally dishes out forgiveness to his executions, the fellow sufferer besides him and John who had abandoned him in the garden. Re John, Jesus does this by entrusting the care of his mother to him.

 

[RedFan]

While we were yet sinners, Christ died for the ungodly Romans 5:8
Jesus death indicates his affection for even the worst of us. In his dying moments he verbally dishes out forgiveness to his executions, the fellow sufferer besides him and John who had abandoned him in the garden. Re John, Jesus does this by entrusting the care of his mother to him.

Yup. And maybe this helps answer stephen64's question above, about whether we should forgive others before or after they request it.

 

[Pearl]

We cannot be born again in to God's family until we seek forgiveness of our sin. That is the starting point - recognising our need to be forgiven and looking to God to forgive us.

Then we must learn and be prepared to forgive those who have hurt us or done us wrong.

I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, Matthew 5:44

Forgiveness must surely be the greatest act of love that there is. Jesus showed his love for the men that crucified him and the crowd that cheered them on by asking his Father to forgive them. He himself is able to forgive the most horrendous of sins.

For us to forgive is to imitate Jesus our Lord. In some cases it isn’t easy, but there again is it ever easy to forgive? That’s not the point though is it? The point is that we obey. Jesus tells us, “But if you refuse to forgive others, your Father will not forgive your sins.” Matthew 6:15
All we can do is to ask for God’s grace and love to fill our hearts and then make forgiveness something we actively choose to do, rather than waiting until we feel like forgiving.
And we should always remember that unforgiveness harms us much more than the person we refuse to forgive.

 

[stephen64]

Yup. And maybe this helps answer stephen64's question above, about whether we should forgive others before or after they request it.

I take the above(rom5:8) to refer to people who come to God through Christ steeped in sin:
But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. Eph2:4&5

God will accept you as you are if you come to him through his Son, for me, Rom5:8 mirrors Eph2:5 but you must come in order to be made alive with Christ and forgiven
Just my thoughts

 

[Pearl]

Yup. And maybe this helps answer stephen64's question above, about whether we should forgive others before or after they request it.

We should forgive everybody irrespective of an apology or request for forgiveness.

 

[quietthinker]

We cannot be born again in to God's family until we seek forgiveness of our sin. That is the starting point - recognising our need to be forgiven and looking to God to forgive us.

Then we must learn and be prepared to forgive those who have hurt us or done us wrong.

I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, Matthew 5:44

Forgiveness must surely be the greatest act of love that there is. Jesus showed his love for the men that crucified him and the crowd that cheered them on by asking his Father to forgive them. He himself is able to forgive the most horrendous of sins.

For us to forgive is to imitate Jesus our Lord. In some cases it isn’t easy, but there again is it ever easy to forgive? That’s not the point though is it? The point is that we obey. Jesus tells us, “But if you refuse to forgive others, your Father will not forgive your sins.” Matthew 6:15
All we can do is to ask for God’s grace and love to fill our hearts and then make forgiveness something we actively choose to do, rather than waiting until we feel like forgiving.
And we should always remember that unforgiveness harms us much more than the person we refuse to forgive.

There will be many in Heaven from the east and the west who never heard of Jesus name yet they responded to the Spirits prompting. If one can forgive others there will also be an awareness that one needs forgiveness themselves.

Forgiveness is from God
Accusation and the lack of forgiveness resides in the evil one.

 

[quietthinker]

We should forgive everybody irrespective of an apology or request for forgiveness.

If we should do this, surely God will. The good tiding to all men proclaimed by the angels to the shepherds on Bethlehem's hills is just that. it is not good advice but good news.

 

[stephen64]

There will be many in Heaven from the east and the west who never heard of Jesus name yet they responded to the Spirits prompting. If one can forgive others there will also be an awareness the one needs forgiveness themselves.
.

I do agree with the above, there are exceptions, there is a huge difference between someone who has never had the opportunity to hear of Christ, and someone who has had that opportunity but rejects coming to him. The following verses endorse what you wrote I believe:

(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) Rom2:14&15
If you have have never read a bible but the law is in your heart you are in my view in covenant, for that is where the law has now been placed. And safe to assume, if you were never able to read a bible you probably have never heard the message

 

[RedFan]

I do agree with the above, there are exceptions, there is a huge difference between someone who has never had the opportunity to hear of Christ, and someone who has had that opportunity but rejects coming to him.

So, let's posit someone who hears of Christ and rejects coming to him -- but who nevertheless forgives everyone all of their transgressions, all his life. Doesn't Matt. 6:14 tell us that he will be forgiven his sins by God?

 

[stephen64]

So, let's posit someone who hears of Christ and rejects coming to him -- but who nevertheless forgives everyone all of their transgressions, all his life. Doesn't Matt. 6:14 tell us that he will be forgiven his sins by God?

For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you

Jesus said no one can come to the Father, but through Him. If you reject Christ can you have a Heavenly Father?