"Free" Will

[StanJ]

What do you think a DISCIPLE is, if not a follower?

I explained the difference, but it appears all you want to do is strive about words. Not a game I'm willing to play with you, given the admonition in 2 Tim 2:14

 

[StanJ]

How then are they are both Christians?

Do you need to rephrase this question? It makes no sense to me.

 

[Barrd]

I explained the difference, but it appears all you want to do is strive about words. Not a game I'm willing to play with you, given the admonition in 2 Tim 2:14

If you did, I must have missed it.
The Bible does use the term "follower", so I really do not see why you have a problem with it.
But if the term "disciple" suits you better, then I will try to remember to use it....just to make you happy.

 

[StanJ]

Perhaps "credentials" was not the best word I could have used.
And you and I have agreed on some things before. I am not your enemy, Stan. Honest.

I did NOT even imply or infer that Barrd. I asked because you go back and forth on issues IMO, and it makes for a lot of extra posts to get back ON track. If I thought you were my enemy, I would put you on ignore and never address you.

 

[StanJ]

If you did, I must have missed it.
The Bible does use the term "follower", so I really do not see why you have a problem with it.
But if the term "disciple" suits you better, then I will try to remember to use it....just to make you happy.

I addressed it in the post you addressed before this response. Do you not read my responses thoroughly?
Did you read John 6:66 IN context? It clearly shows there the difference between followers and disciples.

 

[Born_Again]

Anywho.. the OP is Free Will. Lets get back on topic or the thread will be locked.

 

[Barrd]

I addressed it in the post you addressed before this response. Do you not read my responses thoroughly?
Did you read John 6:66 IN context? It clearly shows there the difference between followers and disciples.

I read that verse:

Joh 6:66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

And I do not see what you are trying to tell me. Maybe I really am as dense as everyone here seems to think I am...or maybe senility is setting in.
So, be a good guy and help an old lady out.
What do you see as the difference between a disciple and a follower?

 

[StanJ]

I read that verse:

Joh 6:66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

And I do not see what you are trying to tell me. Maybe I really am as dense as everyone here seems to think I am...or maybe senility is setting in.
So, be a good guy and help an old lady out.
What do you see as the difference between a disciple and a follower?

They FOLLOWED Jesus, they were not dedicated disciples.

 

[justaname]

I have cleaned up this thread a bit...
I chose to do that by my own

Free Will

To add to the topic a bit...heh!

 

[Barrd]

They FOLLOWED Jesus, they were not dedicated disciples.

The verse you quoted says:

Joh 6:66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

Perhaps I'm misreading it, but it looks an awful lot to me as if they aren't followers or disciples any more. The "went back" and "walked no more with Him."
They were turned off by the notion of eating flesh and drinking blood, as I recall...

 

[Barrd]

These people used their own free will and decided not to walk with Jesus any more, because they did not understand what He was saying to them.

 

[StanJ]

The verse you quoted says:
Joh 6:66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
Perhaps I'm misreading it, but it looks an awful lot to me as if they aren't followers or disciples any more. The "went back" and "walked no more with Him."
They were turned off by the notion of eating flesh and drinking blood, as I recall...

Yep, and as I first explained, they weren't real disciples, but just followers. When things got rough, they stopped following Jesus and went back home. Whether that also meant they didn't believe His gospel anymore, I can't say because the Bible doesn't say, but
yes, and that was NOT what Jesus was conveying. He was talking about spirituality, in a physical metaphorical sense, and many of them took it literally. Obviously they were NOT open in their spirits to receive Him as their bread of life. The RCC is also confused about this issue in their view and teaching on transubstantiation.

 

[StanJ]

These people used their own free will and decided not to walk with Jesus any more, because they did not understand what He was saying to them.

Yep...they chose to follow Jesus and then they chose to not follow him. They are the ones Jesus spoke of in Luke 8:13

 

[Barrd]

Yep, and as I first explained, they weren't real disciples, but just followers. When things got rough, they stopped following Jesus and went back home. Whether that also meant they didn't believe His gospel anymore, I can't say because the Bible doesn't say, but
yes, and that was NOT what Jesus was conveying. He was talking about spirituality, in a physical metaphorical sense, and many of them took it literally. Obviously they were NOT open in their spirits to receive Him as their bread of life. The RCC is also confused about this issue in their view and teaching on transubstantiation.

Well, I still don't see where you are seeing a difference between "disciple" and "follower"....but I don't think it's worth arguing about.

You know, we probably shouldn't be too harsh with those people...I mean, they didn't have the advantage that we have. Still, they had seen Him do amazing things and they had heard Him speak, so it is kinda hard to understand how they could let this throw them.

I agree that the RCC is confused about this. That's what comes of trying to take literally what should have been understood as figurative...

But then, Jesus did speak to the people in parables.

 

[newbirth]

Well, I still don't see where you are seeing a difference between "disciple" and "follower"....but I don't think it's worth arguing about.

You know, we probably shouldn't be too harsh with those people...I mean, they didn't have the advantage that we have. Still, they had seen Him do amazing things and they had heard Him speak, so it is kinda hard to understand how they could let this throw them.

I agree that the RCC is confused about this. That's what comes of trying to take literally what should have been understood as figurative...

But then, Jesus did speak to the people in parables.

you used the term "freewill" to describe a choice...(post #371) that is not freewill their actions was motivated by an external force (ignorance) God gives us the ability(knowledge) to choose between right and wrong ...Him and Satan. Either way we are become servants to do the will of whomever we choose to follow....not our own will...
Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 26:39
And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
John 5:30
I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

 

[StanJ]

you used the term "freewill" to describe a choice...(post #371) that is not freewill their actions was motivated by an external force (ignorance) God gives us the ability(knowledge) to choose between right and wrong ...Him and Satan. Either way we are become servants to do the will of whomever we choose to follow....not our own will...
Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 26:39
And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
John 5:30
I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

being able to see the difference and choosing one, is exactly what free will IS.

 

[Barrd]

being able to see the difference and choosing one, is exactly what free will IS.

I am in complete agreement with you on this one, my brother!

(Hark....do I hear angels singing?)

 

[newbirth]

being able to see the difference and choosing one, is exactly what free will IS.

that is a choice bro ....you did not do that out of your own will...you were blind...God opened your eyes...you were powerless to sin...God gave you strength to turn from sin...now you are taking the glory saying you had free will
John 1:13
Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

 

[newbirth]

I am in complete agreement with you on this one, my brother!

(Hark....do I hear angels singing?)

you somehow believe you had the freewill power to overcome sin on your own.....being blind and covered in sin...if man has freewill to stop sinning why do we need Christ????

 

[FHII]

you somehow believe you had the freewill power to overcome sin on your own.....being blind and covered in sin...if man has freewill to stop sinning why do we need Christ????

Wow! I'm a bit confused as to what freewill theory is now. I always thought folks who believe in freewill believe that they have 100% ability to follow Jesus or not to follow Jesus. Is it now the opinion that they have 100% ability to stop sinning?

I don't think that's the theory of free will. But it wouldn't surprise me.