"Free" Will

[Barrd]

Wow! I'm a bit confused as to what freewill theory is now. I always thought folks who believe in freewill believe that they have 100% ability to follow Jesus or not to follow Jesus. Is it now the opinion that they have 100% ability to stop sinning?

I don't think that's the theory of free will. But it wouldn't surprise me.

No, of course not.
No one said that.

Here is what Stan J actually said:
God gives us the ability(knowledge) to choose between right and wrong ...Him and Satan. Either way we are become servants to do the will of whomever we choose to follow....not our own will...

And I agree. As you say, we choose Whom we will follow...
And with His help, we work to put our sin out of our lives.

 

[FHII]

Ok, thanks for clearing that up Barrd. I do understand the concept of freewill, but I still don't agree with it.

 

[Barrd]

Ok, thanks for clearing that up Barrd. I do understand the concept of freewill, but I still don't agree with it.

Of course, FHII. Your choice....

 

[FHII]

Of course, FHII. Your choice....

... which is made because God opened my eyes through physical circumstances and scripture, leading me to only one compelling conclusion. Given the information presented, as well as the mindset God gave me, I had no choice but to accept what I know.

 

[newbirth]

No, of course not.
No one said that.

Here is what Stan J actually said:
God gives us the ability(knowledge) to choose between right and wrong ...Him and Satan. Either way we are become servants to do the will of whomever we choose to follow....not our own will...

And I agree. As you say, we choose Whom we will follow...
And with His help, we work to put our sin out of our lives.

actually it was I who said that...and the understanding is...a servant is not free...there is no such thing as freewill every action has a consequence...every will is subject to an order

 

[newbirth]

... which is made because God opened my eyes through physical circumstances and scripture, leading me to only one compelling conclusion. Given the information presented, as well as the mindset God gave me, I had no choice but to accept what I know.

actually you made a choice to accept.....there are those who are given the same mindset and information and they choose otherwise...

 

[FHII]

actually it was I who said that...and the understanding is...a servant is not free...there is no such thing as freewill every action has a consequence...every will is subject to an order

Ok. Yep, that is true! Jesus pretty much said believe what I say or go to hell! Kind of puts a damper on free will, Don't it?

The problem is that I believe God puts certain roadblocks and open doors that end up resulting in the chosen to coming to him.

 

[FHII]

actually you made a choice to accept.....there are those who are given the same mindset and information and they choose otherwise...

Same mindset? No. The mindset is are you going to accept the truth or not. Those that have the mindset of accepting the truth can do no other.

 

[Barrd]

actually it was I who said that...and the understanding is...a servant is not free...there is no such thing as freewill every action has a consequence...every will is subject to an order

My apologies.
Every action does have a consequence, that is true.
That does not mean that you do not choose to do or not to do the action, but only that once you have chosen, you are subject to the consequences.

 

[Barrd]

Ok. Yep, that is true! Jesus pretty much said believe what I say or go to hell! Kind of puts a damper on free will, Don't it?

The problem is that I believe God puts certain roadblocks and open doors that end up resulting in the chosen to coming to him.

Not every one chooses to believe that, though, FHII.

 

[StanJ]

that is a choice bro ....you did not do that out of your own will...you were blind...God opened your eyes...you were powerless to sin...God gave you strength to turn from sin...now you are taking the glory saying you had free will
John 1:13
Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

That's right, MY choice MY will MY consequences. If I was blind then Jesus couldn't say what He did in Matt 7:11. If God draws us to Jesus, we have to either choose Him or refuse Him, Our choice, our free will.
You misapply John 1:13 here, because of the version you use, but don't understand. It is properly rendered as; children not born by human parents or by human desire or a husband’s decision, but by God.
Your use is a clear example of eisegesis. Please place your call again.

 

[StanJ]

you somehow believe you had the freewill power to overcome sin on your own.....being blind and covered in sin...if man has freewill to stop sinning why do we need Christ????

That's called equivocation. The issue is whether man has the ability to choose, and he does. That he chooses to do what his carnal nature wants him to is still his choice, and that choice to sin is rightly punishable by death.

 

[FHII]

Not every one chooses to believe that, though, FHII.

Of course not. Now who sends them strong delusions?

 

[Barrd]

Of course not. Now who sends them strong delusions?

You mean the strong delusion that God sends to those who did not receive the love of the truth, but chose to believe a lie? That strong delusion?

 

[FHII]

You mean the strong delusion that God sends to those who did not receive the love of the truth, but chose to believe a lie? That strong delusion?

Yes, exactly! God ain't giving them truth. If he did give them truth, they wouldn't be damned.

This is why Jesus spoke in parables. If he didn't, they'd have understood.

Sure, the disciples didn't understand the parables at first either, but jesus explained it to them. He didn't explain the parables to everyone.

 

[newbirth]

Ok. Yep, that is true! Jesus pretty much said believe what I say or go to hell! Kind of puts a damper on free will, Don't it?

The problem is that I believe God puts certain roadblocks and open doors that end up resulting in the chosen to coming to him.

John 8:24
I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

 

[Barrd]

Yes, exactly! God ain't giving them truth. If he did give them truth, they wouldn't be damned.

This is why Jesus spoke in parables. If he didn't, they'd have understood.

Sure, the disciples didn't understand the parables at first either, but jesus explained it to them. He didn't explain the parables to everyone.

John 8:24
I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

And neither one of you see that both of these involve choice?
Amazing....

 

[newbirth]

Same mindset? No. The mindset is are you going to accept the truth or not. Those that have the mindset of accepting the truth can do no other.

perhaps we are talking along different lines...the mindset is to believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and He died to save us from our sins...How many times did you hear before you finally made the choice??....God gave every man the measure of faith...
Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
Many have accepted the truth and later turned from it...even to false doctrine...those who have itching ears...

 

[newbirth]

My apologies.
Every action does have a consequence, that is true.
That does not mean that you do not choose to do or not to do the action, but only that once you have chosen, you are subject to the consequences.

I don't understand your response...because your choice is an action ...so inaction is a choice and would be considered an action...and therefore a consequence would result...eg..the house is on fire ...you are on the roof...the fireman says to jump...he only gives one option...but you have two choices...to jump or not to jump....action or inaction both will bring a result...life or death

 

[newbirth]

That's right, MY choice MY will MY consequences. If I was blind then Jesus couldn't say what He did in Matt 7:11. If God draws us to Jesus, we have to either choose Him or refuse Him, Our choice, our free will.
You misapply John 1:13 here, because of the version you use, but don't understand. It is properly rendered as; children not born by human parents or by human desire or a husband’s decision, but by God.
Your use is a clear example of eisegesis. Please place your call again.

if you were not blind...then you had no need for Christ....were you not in sin??? and it was not a bother to you...that is because you were blind...
If God draws you it is no longer your free will...simple as that...and if you resist God the devil will be drawing you.....if you had freewill God would not need to draw you...you would turn to him on your own...as a matter of fact you would not need Him ....you could live sinless without Him.

what children do you know that are children not born by human parents or by human desire or a husband’s decision, but by God...??? read it again ..it is those who receive Him

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.