"Free" Will

[newbirth]

That's called equivocation. The issue is whether man has the ability to choose, and he does. That he chooses to do what his carnal nature wants him to is still his choice, and that choice to sin is rightly punishable by death.

where did man get the ability to choose???...the carnal man has no resistance against sin...if he did there is no need for Jesus....

 

[newbirth]

And neither one of you see that both of these involve choice?
Amazing....

actually we are trying to convince you that it involves choice and not freewill as you suggests .....

 

[FHII]

And neither one of you see that both of these involve choice?
Amazing....

I see Jesus making a choice not to bother explaining the parables to some, but making a choice to explain it to others. So yes, I do see a choice.

 

[FHII]

perhaps we are talking along different lines...the mindset is to believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and He died to save us from our sins...How many times did you hear before you finally made the choice??....God gave every man the measure of faith

I can only suppose it took me longer to get it than some, but less time than others. Still it was God's will.

That's a big point with me... I get the feeling that folks who don't believe in predestination and "free will" think that those of us that do believe in predestination... well, they believe that we believe we got it easy and don't frey about choices that must be made.

Not true. The choices have to be made and its tough to give up some things. Still, it was God's plan and design all along.

Romans 8:28 is a very comforting verse! But sometimes it just doesn't feel like one!

 

[Barrd]

I see Jesus making a choice not to bother explaining the parables to some, but m as king a choice to explain it to others. So yes, I do see a choice.

And you do not see people choosing to follow Him, or choosing not to follow Him?
Doesn't God tell us that those who seek will find Him?
Those who knock will be given entry.
Those who ask shall receive.

Doesn't Jesus also tell us that we have not because we ask not?

If there is no choice, but everything is already decided, then this whole existence is no more than a sham. There was no reason for Jesus to die on the cross for anyone, since God had already decided who he will accept and who not. It's all a bunch of empty foolishness and vicious lies....

Obviously, we do make a choice.

 

[FHII]

The choice is God's. God draws us to hin, not the other way around. Any choice we make is foreknown AND predetermined. It was decided before genesis 1:1... just like Jesus being slain and resurrected was done and finished before the foundation of the world.

Sorry you see it as all a sham. But yes, the ending has already been decided acvording to God's will.

 

[newbirth]

I can only suppose it took me longer to get it than some, but less time than others. Still it was God's will.

That's a big point with me... I get the feeling that folks who don't believe in predestination and "free will" think that those of us that do believe in predestination... well, they believe that we believe we got it easy and don't frey about choices that must be made.

Not true. The choices have to be made and its tough to give up some things. Still, it was God's plan and design all along.

Romans 8:28 is a very comforting verse! But sometimes it just doesn't feel like one!

you are correct....it is all God's plan and there is only one will in that plan..God's will.....we need to recognise God's will and submit to it...

 

[FHII]

Oh, by the way. Yes, we do make choices. Never said otherwise. Its just that in the end, they all line up with his will.

 

[newbirth]

The choice is God's. God draws us to hin, not the other way around. Any choice we make is foreknown AND predetermined. It was decided before genesis 1:1... just like Jesus being slain and resurrected was done and finished before the foundation of the world.

Sorry you see it as all a sham. But yes, the ending has already been decided acvording to God's will.

that is like saying...I will be hungry tomorrow anyway so it makes no sense eating today......or we all have to die anyway...so let's all commit suicide now...life is more than that....

 

[FHII]

that is like saying...I will be hungry tomorrow anyway so it makes no sense eating today......or we all have to die anyway...so let's all commit suicide now...life is more than that....

No its not. That's rediculous!

 

[StanJ]

if you were not blind...then you had no need for Christ....were you not in sin??? and it was not a bother to you...that is because you were blind...
If God draws you it is no longer your free will...simple as that...and if you resist God the devil will be drawing you.....if you had freewill God would not need to draw you...you would turn to him on your own...as a matter of fact you would not need Him ....you could live sinless without Him.

what children do you know that are children not born by human parents or by human desire or a husband’s decision, but by God...??? read it again ..it is those who receive Him

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

You're not being very coherent here. Of course I was lost, as all are, until they see the reality of Jesus and confess Him as their saviour.
You have to confess Jesus as saviour...that means agree with God as to who He is. Rom 10:9-11 and Rev 3:20 shows that we make a choice to let Him in or not.
This just shows you don't get what is being said. Again try reading a modern English version you will understand.
John 1:12-13;
But to all who have received him—those who believe in his name—he has given the right to become God’s children —children not born by human parents or by human desire or a husband’s decision, but by God.
You appear to be so focused on your own POV, you don't see the plain words in front of your nose?

 

[StanJ]

Oh, by the way. Yes, we do make choices. Never said otherwise. Its just that in the end, they all line up with his will.

Not ALL obviously, or ALL would be saved.

 

[StanJ]

where did man get the ability to choose???...the carnal man has no resistance against sin...if he did there is no need for Jesus....

That is your dogma talking, NOT God's word. If we did not have the ability to choose, God would not ask us to. We would not HAVE to confess Jesus, we would just be saved. You make some very sad and wild assertions that are way out in left field.
Choice was always a part of our makeup, Adam and Eve had a choice and chose to disobey God.
Joshua told the children of Israel to choose, as seen in Joshua 24:15;
If you have no desire to worship the Lord, choose today whom you will worship, whether it be the gods whom your ancestors worshiped beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living. But I and my family will worship the Lord!”

 

[StanJ]

actually we are trying to convince you that it involves choice and not freewill as you suggests .....

Choice REQUIRES freewill.

 

[Barrd]

The choice is God's. God draws us to hin, not the other way around. Any choice we make is foreknown AND predetermined. It was decided before genesis 1:1... just like Jesus being slain and resurrected was done and finished before the foundation of the world.

Sorry you see it as all a sham. But yes, the ending has already been decided acvording to God's will.

But I do not see it as all a sham.
Yes, God knows the end from the beginning, but within that scope we do have free will to choose or reject Him.

Consider the following:

Deu 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Jos 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

1Ki 18:21 And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word.

Yes, I'm sure God knew what choice these people would make, but that doesn't change the fact that He gave them a choice.
And He gives us the same choice.

 

[Barrd]

No its not. That's rediculous!

Yes, and going through the motions when it's all said and done anyway is also ridiculous.

Why did God tell us through the mouth of His Apostle Peter that God is not willing that any should perish but that all might come to Him?

If we have no choice but to do God's will, then Stan J is right, and those Universalists are right....everyone is going to be saved, so we can all relax.

 

[FHII]

Barrd, I've been through 3 pete 3:9 with you before. Do you remember what I pointed out what it says?

I've read the book of revelation. I believe that is the end of the story and I believe it IS going to happen. That in no way makes me say, "whats the point?"

Isaiah 46:10 says God declared the end from the beginning, his council shall stand and he will do all his pleasure.

 

[newbirth]

That is your dogma talking, NOT God's word. If we did not have the ability to choose, God would not ask us to. We would not HAVE to confess Jesus, we would just be saved. You make some very sad and wild assertions that are way out in left field.
Choice was always a part of our makeup, Adam and Eve had a choice and chose to disobey God.
Joshua told the children of Israel to choose, as seen in Joshua 24:15;
If you have no desire to worship the Lord, choose today whom you will worship, whether it be the gods whom your ancestors worshiped beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living. But I and my family will worship the Lord!”

bro clearly you do not understand scripture...Adam and Eve were not given choices they were commanded not to eat the fruit of a certain tree...they disobeyed the command...as result all men born after Adam was a slave to disobedience...God in His wisdom through the laws and the prophets was teaching men how to obey him....in the end time He sent His Son as the ultimate example of obedience...God is not in the business of giving choices ...He gives commands.....man with his desire to disobey is the one who make choices...Like you are now making a choice to hold on to your false doctrine...and disobeying the commands of God...

 

[newbirth]

Choice REQUIRES freewill.

A slave is set before one evil master what freewill does he have???the master commands he obeys....the same slave is set before two masters one good one evil he now has the opportunity to choose his own master...what freewill does he have???...is he not still a slave??? all choice requires is options...

 

[newbirth]

But I do not see it as all a sham.
Yes, God knows the end from the beginning, but within that scope we do have free will to choose or reject Him.

Consider the following:

Deu 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Jos 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

1Ki 18:21 And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word.

Yes, I'm sure God knew what choice these people would make, but that doesn't change the fact that He gave them a choice.
And He gives us the same choice.

God gives commands...man makes choices....God gives man the power to make the right choices...