Freedom To Sin

[HeartNSoul19]

One of the gifts of creation is that we are given the choice to act as we see fit. It is left up to us to behave according to our highest ideals rather than based on our baser nature; what is asked of us is to choose to be and to live in according with our spiritual nature versus our animal / lower nature.

 

[Curtis]

I'm hearing this routinely, that those who teach that we are fully and completely forgiven of our sins, past, present, and future, by the same token preach that we are free to sin "all we want", that "sins don't matter", that we take a light view of sin in some way.

The topic of Gnosticism has come up again. How often have I been called Gnostic? I have no idea. I've heard this for years. But the historical Gnostics were something else altogether.

People bring up the passages which talk about "former sins", as if these sentences were lifted out of their historical place, and were talking about their own lives, some point in each of our lives where we say, "My former sins". We can talk about those.

We can talk about the notion of how a 'creature condemned in sin' is at the same time united by God's Spirit to Himself. Forgiveness must be total, because God is Holy. We can discuss how any incomplete forgiveness has to discount God's holiness.

There is justification, not only declaring us innocent and righteous, but giving birth to us, sharing God's Own nature, righteous and holy. We can talk about that if you want.

What I mostly want to talk about is this idea that believing we are completely and permanently forgiven of all sin past present future somehow releases us into a cesspool of sinning.

I don't see that.

In the first place, well, here's a poll I think I know how everyone will answer.

Do you want to commit sin? Do you wake up in the morning thinking, OH, I hope I can get in some sinning today! Maybe even a little depravity? Anyone?

Or is it more like what Paul said,

Romans 5:18-21 to 6:1-7 KJV
18) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19) For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
20) Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
21) That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
1) What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2) God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Aren't these more what we want?

Romans 5:1-2 KJV
1) Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2) By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

What I like talking about is how when we come to understand that there really IS no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, that this unlocks our faith to stand in His grace.

Much love!

How salvation really works.


To be saved requires more than just believing in Jesus - we also must choose to repent of our sins as part of our conversion so that our sins are forgiven (Acts 3:19 - Acts 20:21) - but we can’t pre-repent of future sins - thus scripture is clear that only OLD sins and PAST sins are forgiven at salvation - not future sins:


2Pe 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was PURGED from his OLD SINS.


Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to bea propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of SINS THAT ARE PAST through the forbearance of God;

Even though Jesus paid for all sins, because repentance is how sin forgiveness is applied to us, only past sins and old sins are forgiven at salvation - because you can’t repent of sins not committed yet.

So hyper-grace doctrine which claims all sins: past, present, and future sins, are forgiven at salvation, is wrong.


Future sins must be repented of as we commit them, to be forgiven.


That’s why the apostle wrote:


1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us oursins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


The apostle included himself, indicating he’s talking to believers, and not to the unconverted, as further shown by the fact he had just written THIS, before verse 9:


1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

1Jn 1:7 But IF we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.


The blood of Jesus continuing to cleanse us from all sin, is conditional on continuing to walk in the light, as He is in the light, per the above, and we are to confess our sins as believers, for them to be forgiven.

The Holy Spirit lets us know when we’ve committed a sin that we need to repent of.

Therefore if a believer falls back again into a sinful lifestyle, and stops repenting, those sins aren’t forgiven, and you can’t get to heaven with unforgiven sins.

 

[Truther]

How salvation really works.


To be saved requires more than just believing in Jesus - we also must choose to repent of our sins as part of our conversion so that our sins are forgiven (Acts 3:19 - Acts 20:21) - but we can’t pre-repent of future sins - thus scripture is clear that only OLD sins and PAST sins are forgiven at salvation - not future sins:


2Pe 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was PURGED from his OLD SINS.


Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to bea propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of SINS THAT ARE PAST through the forbearance of God;

Even though Jesus paid for all sins, because repentance is how sin forgiveness is applied to us, only past sins and old sins are forgiven at salvation - because you can’t repent of sins not committed yet.

So hyper-grace doctrine which claims all sins: past, present, and future sins, are forgiven at salvation, is wrong.


Future sins must be repented of as we commit them, to be forgiven.


That’s why the apostle wrote:


1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us oursins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


The apostle included himself, indicating he’s talking to believers, and not to the unconverted, as further shown by the fact he had just written THIS, before verse 9:


1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

1Jn 1:7 But IF we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.


The blood of Jesus continuing to cleanse us from all sin, is conditional on continuing to walk in the light, as He is in the light, per the above, and we are to confess our sins as believers, for them to be forgiven.

The Holy Spirit lets us know when we’ve committed a sin that we need to repent of.

Therefore if a believer falls back again into a sinful lifestyle, and stops repenting, those sins aren’t forgiven, and you can’t get to heaven with unforgiven sins.

You skipped Acts 2:38.

 

[marks]

So hyper-grace doctrine which claims all sins: past, present, and future sins, are forgiven at salvation, is wrong.

This is a common point of view.

I'm curious . . . how confident are you that you are aware of every sin you commit? Do you confess and repent of them all? Each one? Today, yesterday, the day before . . .

I'm wondering how a person can be confident that they could do this, considering the Apostle Paul was not.

Much love!

 

[marks]

How salvation really works.

Having believed, received Jesus, we are born from God, now members of His family.

Much love!

 

[David H.]

How salvation really works.


To be saved requires more than just believing in Jesus - we also must choose to repent of our sins as part of our conversion so that our sins are forgiven (Acts 3:19 - Acts 20:21) - but we can’t pre-repent of future sins - thus scripture is clear that only OLD sins and PAST sins are forgiven at salvation - not future sins:


2Pe 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was PURGED from his OLD SINS.


Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to bea propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of SINS THAT ARE PAST through the forbearance of God;

Even though Jesus paid for all sins, because repentance is how sin forgiveness is applied to us, only past sins and old sins are forgiven at salvation - because you can’t repent of sins not committed yet.

So hyper-grace doctrine which claims all sins: past, present, and future sins, are forgiven at salvation, is wrong.


Future sins must be repented of as we commit them, to be forgiven.


That’s why the apostle wrote:



1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us oursins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


The apostle included himself, indicating he’s talking to believers, and not to the unconverted, as further shown by the fact he had just written THIS, before verse 9:


1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

1Jn 1:7 But IF we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.


The blood of Jesus continuing to cleanse us from all sin, is conditional on continuing to walk in the light, as He is in the light, per the above, and we are to confess our sins as believers, for them to be forgiven.

The Holy Spirit lets us know when we’ve committed a sin that we need to repent of.

Therefore if a believer falls back again into a sinful lifestyle, and stops repenting, those sins aren’t forgiven, and you can’t get to heaven with unforgiven sins.

Amen! Repentance is how we apply the atonement over us.

 

[Enoch111]

I'm hearing this routinely, that those who teach that we are fully and completely forgiven of our sins, past, present, and future, by the same token preach that we are free to sin "all we want", that "sins don't matter", that we take a light view of sin in some way.

This is just total nonsense. Why waste time on this?

 

[FHII]

Its not so much that we have freedom TO sin; its more that we have freedom FROM sin. We need a license to sin like a redneck in Georgia needs a license to fish. Whether he has one or not, he's going to do it!

No, we don't have nor need a license to sin; we need forgiveness for being a sinner. The Apostle John perfectly explained this when he said, "sin not, but if you do sin you have an advocate in Jesus."

I urge people not to sin, but I am a big defender in grace. Our sins are covered and not imputed to us. But this grace is not to be used as a cloak of maliciousness. The love of God is not in you if you do.

But still, we are going to do that which is not right in his eyes. We are in the flesh.... So its going to happen.

 

[Truther]

Amen! Repentance is how we apply the atonement over us.

No, Acts 2:38 is.

 

[marks]

This is just total nonsense. Why waste time on this?

Sadly, I have that kind of time to waste!

Seriously though, I find a number of benefits, one of which is to refined my communication abilities. Repeating the same answers over and over, I get better as saying them.

And maybe someone actually will recognize when they are relying on something that is a logical fallacy, and will look for a more solid foundation. You just never know!



Much love!

 

[David H.]

No, Acts 2:38 is.

"REPENT and be baptized...."

Repentance at salvation is essential, you are not saved if you did not repent, Repentance after we are saved is our daily sacrifice...

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (1 John 1:8-9)

 

[FHII]

"REPENT and be baptized...."

Repentance at salvation is essential, you are not saved if you did not repent, Repentance after we are saved is our daily sacrifice...

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (1 John 1:8-9)

David, can you give a biblical description on how to repent?

 

[Curtis]

This is a common point of view.

I'm curious . . . how confident are you that you are aware of every sin you commit? Do you confess and repent of them all? Each one? Today, yesterday, the day before . . .

I'm wondering how a person can be confident that they could do this, considering the Apostle Paul was not.

Much love!

If you’re using Romans 7 as a proof text passage that it’s okay to live sinfully, you need to finish reading Paul’s writing about the conflict between the flesh and the spirit, in Romans 8.

Paul in Romans 8 warns that IF you walk after the flesh you will die, but IF ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

That’s spiritual death there, as in being dead in our sins.

The prodigal son was DEAD, said his father, when out sinning in the world, but was alive AGAIN after returning in repentance. He obviously didn’t die physically while gone, and resurrect - how then, was he dead? This way:

Eph 2:1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins

And you know if you’ve committed a sin such as adultery, stealing, lying, or the other works of the flesh Paul warns keeps believers out of heaven - the HS convicts you of the sin, and need to repent of it.
You don’t have to keep a list. If you do the sin, repent of it.

John in 1 John 1:7 gives the conditional statement that IF we walk in the light as He is in the light,the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin, then says not to lie and say you don’t sin as a believer, then says in verse 9, that IF we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive them, and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

 

[David H.]

David, can you give a biblical description on how to repent?

There are two types of repentance, the first is Godly remorse, which leads to change and growth in our lives. The Corinthian church was praised for this in 2 Corinthians 7. Then there is the repentance of Esau which is what happens when you get your hand caught in the cookie jar (Hebrews 12:16-17) "Though he sought it with tears".... which is where you do not want to end up. Paul contrasts these two in the following verse:

For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death. (2 Corinthians 7:10)

In this chapter you will get a good picture of repentance, As well as God's discipline is intended to lead us to repentance for those sins we are unaware of, Like a father correcting a child how we respond shows the character of our heart. (see Hebrews 12:7-11)

So those two chapters are a good place to start.
God Bless.

 

[marks]

And you know if you’ve committed a sin such as adultery, stealing, lying, or the other works of the flesh Paul warns keeps believers out of heaven - the HS convicts you of the sin, and need to repent of it.
You don’t have to keep a list. If you do the sin, repent of it.

From where comes sin in the born again?

I don't seek to excuse sin, just to be clear. But if we have the wrong idea, it will work directly against our faith. Truth sets free, and that freedom is a real liberty, not to sin, but to live without sin and without the consciousness of sin. Clean and pure.

We stop sins when we realize that we are, and that we can. But the real victory, I think, is won when we come to rest in God's promises, a true and real rest, not a tallying of sins so they can each one be forgiven. I think that sort of idea is completely out of sync with the reconciliation which God accomplished in Christ.

I believe we are completely reconciled, and completely safe in God's arms, and in this truth is where I find a life of love and joy and peace and - self control.

Much love!

 

[marks]

John in 1 John 1:7 gives the conditional statement that IF we walk in the light as He is in the light,the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin, then says not to lie and say you don’t sin as a believer, then says in verse 9, that IF we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive them, and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

This is about being saved.

"We" is being inclusive. If you follow the thought, he's not saying a Christian moves in and out of the light and darkness, back and forth.

Much love!

 

[David H.]

From where comes sin in the born again?

I don't seek to excuse sin, just to be clear. But if we have the wrong idea, it will work directly against our faith. Truth sets free, and that freedom is a real liberty, not to sin, but to live without sin and without the consciousness of sin. Clean and pure.

We stop sins when we realize that we are, and that we can. But the real victory, I think, is won when we come to rest in God's promises, a true and real rest, not a tallying of sins so they can each one be forgiven. I think that sort of idea is completely out of sync with the reconciliation which God accomplished in Christ.

I believe we are completely reconciled, and completely safe in God's arms, and in this truth is where I find a life of love and joy and peace and - self control.

What you are saying then is we have no sin which is clearly refuted by 1 John 1:8 and 1 John 1:10.
All you are showing here is that you have no place in your heart for repentance which is the very essence of applying the blood atonement over us, Which is the very same doctrine that will lead to men falling for the strong delusion.... because they love not the truth.

Look I Know you do not want to interact with me here, but your very soul is at stake here as you are turning the grace of God into lasciviousness.... not that you are blatantly committing aggregious sins like adultery and murder, But that You are failing to grow in Holiness and godliness, and using doctrine as an excuse why you need not repent. Read Hebrews 10:32-39, and process those words with what you say above.

The doctrine of rest is the first step, as this is meant to lead us to full surrender and acknowledgement of our inability to please God with our works, It is not until we reach that surrendered state that the Holy Ghost can begin to do His work in us, repentance is us daily surrendering our will to His will in meekness and love for Him.... Which is our "reasonable service" Romans 12:1, This is when you will see real freedom, for you are no longer trying to please others or yourself but you will be doing the will of God. I Have said this before here i think but it is so counter intuitive to the way the world thinks that it is worth stating again. Submitting to God is the most liberating thing a man can do. Submission has a connotation of bondage in this world, But submitting to our creator God fulfills the Order of How we were created in the first place, in submission we become a new creation.

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

One of the gifts of creation is that we are given the choice to act as we see fit. It is left up to us to behave according to our highest ideals rather than based on our baser nature; what is asked of us is to choose to be and to live in according with our spiritual nature versus our animal / lower nature.

Human beings don't have an animal nature because we're not animals. We also don't have a "lower nature" either. That sounds like Gnostic drivel. The only nature human beings have apart from God's nature is Satan's nature.

 

[David H.]

Human beings don't have an animal nature because we're not animals. We also don't have a "lower nature" either. That sounds like Gnostic drivel. The only nature human beings have apart from God's nature is Satan's nature.

The correct Biblical terminology is to "Put off the Old man and Put on the new man"
That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. (Ephesians 4:22-24)

Some versions translate these as the "sinful nature" for the Old man and the "new nature" like Godliness. (see NLT particularly)

 

[HeartNSoul19]

Human beings don't have an animal nature because we're not animals. We also don't have a "lower nature" either. That sounds like Gnostic drivel. The only nature human beings have apart from God's nature is Satan's nature.

We are referring to the same reality, using different words.

Higher or lower nature... Godly or Satanic... good and not-so-good...

We are not the same as other animals, but as humans we share with animals everything that makes an animal so... we have bodies and built-in instincts at a baser level than our higher thinking... so we are certainly animals by body and mind, only we are so much more (the capacity for intellect, capacity to be self-aware, to communicate in words, capacity to reason or to seek).