Freemasonry - All about the organization

[cemab4y]

Many (uninformed) Christians have a real problem with Freemasonry. I would like to answer any questions that any one on this board has about the organization.I am a Blue Lodge mason. I hold the 3rd degree.I am also a Scottish Rite Mason, I hold the 32d degree.I am also a Shriner. We run a network of orthopaedic hospitals and burns clinics, where all medical treatment is provided for free. We give about $2.6 million dollars per DAY in North America alone, to charitable works, college scholarships, etc. NOT for a "works" salvation, but solely to serve the needs of the human family.Please post your questions here.

 

[tim_from_pa]

Hi. Yes, I will admit that the practice is presented in as being clouded in mystery and subject to all kinds of speculation. The religious "right" tends to condemn it and call it a cult of some sort.That does not sway my opinion one way or another. I am often labeled the same way when I hold the (biblical) doctrine of believing in migrations of the lost ten tribes of Israel. As a matter of fact, in that regard, we may have some things in common.Since many of us hear all types of descriptions of freemasonry, why not start off with giving an overview of the practice from your point of view, and from that we can maybe focus in on more specific questions.Thanks.

 

[crooner]

What god do free masons worship. I have heard stories at the top it is Allah and not God who sent His son to save mankind. My dad is a mason. He doesnt have a clue.

 

[cemab4y]

The answer is wide open. Masonry is a peculiar (meaning unique) system of morality, veiled in allegory, and communicated to the participant by means of symbols and instructions.NOT a religion, but a non-denominational, inter-faith organization, where men of many different religions and backgrounds, can meet as brothers and equals. In the USA, most Masons are practitioners of the Christian religion, but men of many different faith backgrounds participate worldwide.

 

[crooner]

Same question for shriners?

 

[Faithful]

(cemab4y;31835)
The answer is wide open. Masonry is a peculiar (meaning unique) system of morality, veiled in allegory, and communicated to the participant by means of symbols and instructions.NOT a religion, but a non-denominational, inter-faith organization, where men of many different religions and backgrounds, can meet as brothers and equals. In the USA, most Masons are practitioners of the Christian religion, but men of many different faith backgrounds participate worldwide.
There are problems both with the symbols used in freemasonry and the union of faith which goes against the christian faith. What do you know of the ancient symbols or the path that they teach all religions leading to the one true God?I have looked alot at the masons on the surface it all appears good to the world but the teachings are corrupt for it is not built on truth and men will lose their souls not gain reward and life. For even the jewish covenant would not support such things.Faithful ray3:

 

[crooner]

(cemab4y;31835)
The answer is wide open. Masonry is a peculiar (meaning unique) system of morality, veiled in allegory, and communicated to the participant by means of symbols and instructions.NOT a religion, but a non-denominational, inter-faith organization, where men of many different religions and backgrounds, can meet as brothers and equals. In the USA, most Masons are practitioners of the Christian religion, but men of many different faith backgrounds participate worldwide.
If you are that high up shouldnt you know who is the god of your organization is. where there is smoke there is fire and there are many rumores that allah is the god at the top that is ultimultly worshipped. I remember when I was a kid and my dad would bring homes hats that resembled arab hats. they used in cermonies at shriner or masons.

 

[crooner]

Following we would like to share information which has come to us with pictures. This information has not been confirmed by us, but is based on an ex Masons' testimony that Copeland was seen in attendance in a Masonic meeting as in Dr. Graham's case. We research, collect and dispense information which is pertinent to born again believers to protect them from teachings which might injure their faith in any way.Kenneth Copeland a 33rd Degree Mason? "In this article we will attempt first time to unveil the truth of Kenneth Copeland's Masonic membership.As Kenneth is a closet, secret Freemason who does not want anyone to know this truth, it will be a involving task that needs to look deeply into any specific clues. It is a trademark of most proud Masons to leave key symbols veiled into pictures and also to use varioufor the keywords in speeches or secret handshakes. Proof of this can be found in Masonry's most common definition of itself as being'Freemasonry is a peculiar system of Morality, veiled in Allegory, and illustrated by Symbols.' This is taken directly from the second degree initiation and evidence that it is still currently used was proven to me recently when I attended a Masonic open day and heard that same description. The application of this quote in regards to Copeland will be discussed below.Kenneth Copeland started his ministry under Oral Roberts 33rd Degree [also a case such as Copeland's based on symbols used by Oral Robertrs] Freemason as a pilot. Kenneth was on TV sometime around June 1997 praising Oral Roberts as they are close friends. Evidence that Oral Roberts is a 33rd Degree Freemason will be compiled and published as soon as possible.Kenneth Copeland chants the words "I AM" which is a Masonic initiation term. And I say this with all respect, so that it don't upset you too bad. But I say it anyway: When I read in the Bible where He says, "I AM I just smile and say, Yes, I AM, too."Believers Voice of Victory broadcast July 9 1987During the ceremonies of the Masonic ritual for the Royal Arch degree, the candidate is asked, "Brother Inspector, what are you?" and he replies, "I AM THAT I AM"When Jesus told the jews before Abraham was "I AM" he was claiming to be the God of Moses who went by that name. This is why they tried to kill him immediately. Kenneth is claiming to be a God. 33rd Degree [assumed from his teachings and his affiliates, as far as we know] Freemason Robert Schuller also endorses his followers to chant "I AM". The most effective mantras employ the "sound". You can get the feel of it by repeating the words, "I am, I am" many times over....Transendental Meditation or TM... is not a religion nor is it necessarily anti-Christian. (Peace of Mind Through Possibility Thinking, pp. 131-32) Benny Hinn whom I suspect is a Freemason, also tells Christians to chant"I AM". Don't tell me you have Jesus. You are everything He was and everything He is and ever shall be..... Don't say, 'I have.' Say "I AM, I AM, I AM, I AM, I AM". (Our Position in Christ #2-The Word Made Flesh audiotape Side 2 1991)Kenneth Copeland has stated that Jehovah means Half Male/ Half Female and that God is as much female as he is male. He amplifies this strange teaching by also saying that Adam was originally half male and half female.According to the book "The Secret Teachings Of Freemasonry" by Gordon Mohr this is exactly what the Masonic Lodge teaches :-( on pages 107-108)In his first initiation stages he (the Freemason) learns:1. That the rite of initation for Apprentice Masons represents in dramatic fashion the origin or birth of Nature's god - the Great All. It signifies the non-existence of a supernatural person God, such as that of Christianity. It signifies that the two principles of matter and form, male and female, are always eternally generating, (reproducing). It looks on God as a hermaphrodite, and creation as the beginning of the generation process. (Taken from: Speculative Masonry, by Brother J. Yorke, Grand Master of the Ancient Rite pages 3-54) 2 - The initation rite into the Second Degree, represents the moral condition of nature's god, always in labor, always reproducing. Again it looks on God as hermaphroditic, and states that his name JEHOVAH, means generation. Meaning to say, HE-SHE, the two sexes in one. (From Speculative Masonry page 14, Mackey's Lexion pages 126-129)The dual principle of and female is represented by the square and compass. The compass represents OSIRIS, the male god of the Egyptians, while the is the symbol representing ISIS, the female goddess of Egypt - both are sexual symbols. Taken from: Ragon's Cours. Philosophique page 102This reference to the square and compass is significant as Copeland has placed these symbols on one of his tape covers.Below is the Eastern Star: Emblem of Female Orders Associated with Masonry Copeland teaches similar things that the early Mormons leaders who were also Freemasons taught. While the Mormons teach that God lives on a planet near the star Kolob, Copeland says that his hermaphroditic god also lives on a Mother Planet: Heaven has a north and a south and an east and a west. Consequently, it must be a planet. (Spirit, Soul and Body I 1985 audiotape #01-0601, side 1) You don't think earth was first, do you? Huh? Well, you don't think that God made man in His image, and then made earth in some other image? There is not anything under this whole sun that's new. Are you hearing what I'm saying? This is all a copy. It's a copy of home. It's a copy of the Mother Planet. Where God lives, He made a little one just like His and put us on it. (Following the Faith of Abraham I, 1989 audiotape #01-3001, side 1) Compare what Freemason-Mormon Brigham Young stated Adam is our father and our God with Copeland's quote: Adam, in the Garden of Eden, was God manifested in the flesh.Following the Faith of Abraham I, side 1 Also compare Freemason-Mormon founder Joseph Smith's teaching that if you were to see God today you would see him like a man in form - like yourselves in all the person, image, and very form as a man with Copeland's following description of his god: Copeland decribes God as a being that is very uncanny the way he's very much like you and me. A being that stands somewhere around 6'2, 6'3, that weighs somewhere in the neighbourhood of a couple of hundred pounds or a little better, has a span of 9 inches across.( Spirit, Soul and Body I audiotape Side 1 1985)God spoke Adam into existence in authority with words. These words struck Adam's body in the face. His body and God were exactly the same size.Holy Bible, Kenneth Copeland Reference Edition 1991, 45, emphasis in original [Adam] was the copy, looked just like [God]. If you stood Adam upside God, they look exactly alike. If you stood Jesus and Adam side by side, they would look and sound exactly alike. (Authority of the Believer IV 1987, audiotape #01-0304, side 1)Here we have the cover for Copeland's audiotape series entitled 'How To Build Your Firm Foundation.' Remember the main definition of Masonry as being 'Freemasonry is a peculiar system of Morality, veiled in Allegory, and illustrated by Symbols. This is exactly what we have right here. Copeland has placed the chief Masonic symbols of the square and compass here that to most people the true meaning is veiled in an allegorical style.ALLEGORY, fictional literary narrative or artistic expression that conveys a symbolic meaning parallel to but distinct from, and more important than, the literal meaning. Allegory has also been defined as an extended metaphor. The symbolic meaning is usually expressed through personifications and other symbols. In art, an allegorical painting or sculpture is one that has a symbolic meaning underlying the surface image.More symbols of Freemasonry are incorporated into Copeland's 'Shout' magazine for kids. Around Kenneth's neck is an eagle above an inverted triangle. I have seen this symbol on a Masonic certificate before. The female [Copeland's daughter] has an inverted 5 pointed star placed on her shirt. This symbol represents the 'Order of the Eastern Star' which is a Masonic order for women! Is this a coincidence? Now Copeland has placed the main symbols of Masonry and the Eastern Star on his covers. When 33rd Degree Freemason Robert Schuller wanted to express his secret membership in the Lodge he used the 33rd Degree symbol of a double headed eagle and sent it out to many people without them realizing what he was declaring to his Masonic brothers worldwide. 33rd Degree Freemason Oral Roberts used the inverted triangle in his University logo which has a hidden Masonic design to it.Another odd element is that the Freemasons veiled the symbols of the square, compass, inverted star and triangle into the street layout of Washington D.C. These are the 3 symbols that Copeland has placed on the 2 mentioned covers. As I write this he is also presently in Washington conducting a rally.To summerize:- Kenneth Copeland started work under a 33rd Degree Freemason whom he has a strong friendship with. He claims to be 'I AM' which is a Masonic initiation term. His teaching about his hermaphroditic god match up exactly with what Masonry teaches and his teaching on the size and likeness of God match up with what the early Freemason- Mormon leaders also taught. Add to this the veiled symbols of Freemasonry that he has placed on 2 covers, possibly more.I would have never suspected Copeland of being a Freemason if it were not for his heritical teachings including his belief that God was gang raped and sodomised by homosexual Roman soldiers. If so then God's blood would be impure and unable to redeem.Please click on the link below for more information on Copeland's false teachings and strange beliefs.The deciding factor to publish this information came after a friend of mine received information from an ex-Mason that stated that he has been in attendance in Masonic meeting when Copeland was present. At the moment this man wishes not to reveal himself. He possibly has some firm documented evidence that we will try to obtain. I do not know who this man is but my friend is trying to obtain more information. Another thing that helped verify these facts is a research project in the US that has gained some proof of these allegations. I am currently trying to contact these men so I can add their research to this page. What I do know is that they are both 'Born-again' Christian ministers whose credentials have been checked out. I will amplify on these details later.Hagin's revelation of his connection to the Obelisk. Note his Logo shaped like an eagle, another Masonic implication. Masonry is just modern Baal worship... with new titles (Ed Decker) http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/8988/kenneth.htmMORE INFORMATION ON KENNETH COPELAND -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This Poster on the left interpreted:At the rise of the Nazi Regime over the Freemasonry in Germany. Hitler was a practicing Mason, how would he have eradicated it? This is the type of propaganda which mislead Germans into believing Hitler to be a true Christian. Note the above symbol. How many are involved answering the call to Publisher's Clearing House? Their seal is a demonic symbol. The Masonic Jesus - Christ as the Divine Architect. From the mid-thirteenth century Bible moralisee. (taken from the Temple and the Lodge, by Michael Baigent and Richard Leight)--------------------------------------------------------------------------------|Back |--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[tim_from_pa]

I think that man becoming God or in the Mormon sense, God as a man is one of many cases where Satan twists the truth just a quarter turn.In a sense, no, not just a sense, in reality, we do become as God if we are born in Christ. However, we do not become THE God (i.e. Jehovah). There is only one Jehovah, but the term God technically is a species like "cat" or "dog". This is why the bible says that there is no other God like Jehovah. Of all the gods, there is only one true source of Life.The bible clearly teaches we will become as Christ Himself and will rule and reign with him. In other words, the Messianic Psalm 2 applies to the believer in Christ as well.So, like in the garden, what Satan says is true, but with the wrong end in mind. The subtle, and this is very subtle, is if we become as God (or gods whatever you want to say), this goes to the head of a fleshy being like man, just as it went to the head in Satan. The difference is that the born-again believer sees that it's not his (fleshy) will but that of the Father. We act like God by doing His will and using his authority so that what we say is effectively the same as God saying it because He did say it thru us.The real danger is when we cannot discern which is which, and then we run the risk of calling ourselves "God" but in secret are executing our own wills.

 

[Unorthodox Christian]

I'm shocked with all the sin sympathizing and Leavening that's been going on this board recently. If It's not OF THE BIBLE I won't even try and compromise, I will reason, NEVER COMPROMISE. What's going on here?!

 

[DrBubbaLove]

Am not sure what all is true and what is myth about Freemasons. At least partially that is because it is a secret society. It does seem that a common theme of everything said about them in regards to religion or faith (whether God centered or not), even from themselves, suggest a promotion of the idea in Freemasonry that all religions are equal. The Christian can neither accept that as being true or by belonging to such an organization promote that idea to others.The idea of a united brotherhood for the good of all men is noble. But if that means compromising what is true, the end does not justify the means. So even if we take what seems to be the worst things being said about it (and if true certainly justifies condemnation from all) and ignore all that to look at the Freemasons in the best possible light, that is uniting men, it is still wrong.

 

[crooner]

Where is CMAB4Y to answer some of these questions. He starts a thread and disapears???????????????????????

 

[BearingChristaHammer]

(Unorthodox Christian;32052)
I'm shocked with all the sin sympathizing and Leavening that's been going on this board recently. If It's not OF THE BIBLE I won't even try and compromise, I will reason, NEVER COMPROMISE. What's going on here?!
NO JOKE! No one should give credence to this man, let this remain only as a deterrent. This is of the DEVIL. Do not follow after false gods. There is a soothsayer among us.This is an excerpt of something I wrote in another non-Christian forum:"...While I would agree that this is a common misconception, it is no entirely true. Somebody else said this as well on a prior thread, and I would like to clarify that while all Satanists don't knowingly worship Satan there exist many that do. And yet there are even others calling him by different names such as “Bophemet”, but it is still Satan in disguise. And as is often the case in many cults, you don't know what you are getting into until you reach the top. Each level is very clandestine to those operating beneath it, and those that start in at the bottom are not purvey to what is going on at the top. You are only let up if they think you will be acquiescent to their codes and cause; which at the next level is just as blind; as it is yet another shade of deception till you reach the deluded satanic fantasies at the top. It’s that whole parable of throw a frog into hot water and he will jump out, yet if you place him in warm water you will slowly cook him by gradually raising the temperature.That said, it is true that while even if at a surface glance Satanist are not directly worshiping Satan; they are at the core of their beliefs supporting and furthering his cause whether aware of it or not. You mentioned something similar to this effect Wiseman_2, by stating that they are in opposition to Christian beliefs. The greatest disguise for Satan’s power and ultimately his greatest trick to humankind is to convince the world that he does not exist. He is so much stronger in this scenario. Few, although there exist more today than some are aware, will want to knowingly worship the Prince of Lies and Deceit. It’s funny that man would follow Satan when his whole agenda is against the human race. He is jealous of man and wishes him eternal damnation. Satan is the Father of Lies. The mere fact that even he would want his initial followers to believe he does not exist is not implausible.Take this for example: of the many cases of Demon Possession and Visible Spiritual Warfare; it happens usually to those who already believe in things such as Angels, Demons, God and Satan. I never saw a demon before I truly believed in God, except as a very young kid when you believe in everything. As a kid I believed in God, but not truly, it was only what my parents told me, and I found many contradictions at that. But as I moved away from home and started to search for the truth on my own, I went from disbelief for a while and back to belief again. When I came back into believing in God, it was different than before; I was no longer haphazardly following a religion that seemed flawed. I started to follow my Creator that enjoyed revealing the truth to me and considered me an equal. He became my personal savior and light into this world..."Okay while not all of that may pertain, Free Masonry does not share revelation like Christ does. Its spreads deceit and its whole set up is to delude you from the truth and bring your worship to the feat of SATAN, even it's members may be in delusion of these facts but it is the case nonetheless. Thank you Crooner for the article that you provided. I read it, and hope that it will wane anyones curiosity in this false god called Free Masonry. It is of the DEVIL, 100%. Do not listen to this man CMAB4Y. He is a soothsayer who shall not come B4 you. Children of God ask yourselves this: Do you need to eat an entire apple to know it's bad? Do you even need to bite into it? Is not looking upon it enough to know it is for nothing good. This fruit is of the devil, it is a bad tree.

 

[cemab4y]

I have been away for a couple of days. First and foremost, Freemasonry is NOT a religion, not by any means. There is no claim to divine origination, we are a group of men, who practice the highest standards of ethics, morality, and charity. Not for any "good works" salvation, but because a human need exists. Masons in the USA give about $2.6 million dollars PER DAY to charitable and humanitarian causes.Masonry teaches a number of concepts, but it does NOT teach that all religions are "equal". Masonry, being a secular man-made organization, takes no position at all, with respect to religion. Masonry does teach that all MEN are equal. Sectarianism, denominationalism, race or class prejudice, have no place in our fraternity.To petition (join) the fraternity, the individual must believe in God. No atheist may be made a mason. If a mason later chooses to turn atheist, he will be expelled from the organization.I am not interested in replying to scurrilous charges, or accusations that Masons are "satanists", such inquiries are meaningless. I will however, be more than glad to provide factual information about our Craft, and our charitable work.So mote it be!

 

[cemab4y]

(DrBubbaLove;32056)
Am not sure what all is true and what is myth about Freemasons. At least partially that is because it is a secret society. It does seem that a common theme of everything said about them in regards to religion or faith (whether God centered or not), even from themselves, suggest a promotion of the idea in Freemasonry that all religions are equal. The Christian can neither accept that as being true or by belonging to such an organization promote that idea to others.The idea of a united brotherhood for the good of all men is noble. But if that means compromising what is true, the end does not justify the means. So even if we take what seems to be the worst things being said about it (and if true certainly justifies condemnation from all) and ignore all that to look at the Freemasons in the best possible light, that is uniting men, it is still wrong.
--There are a number of myths and untruths being circulated about Freemasonry. One thing I wish to clear up, is that Masonry is NOT a secret society. Masonic buildings are clearly marked, most lodges have websites. Every Grand Lodge in the USA has a website. Masons wear rings, pins, ballcaps, belt buckles, etc. I sponsored legislation in KY, to get masonic vehicle license plates. Everything about Masonry, our goals and objectives, our charities, is easily accessible in books, and on the internet.Masonry is a non-denominational, inter-faith organization. It accepts into its membership, men of many different and varied religious backgrounds. All petitioners (applicants) must believe in God. No atheist can be made a Mason. If associating with men of other religious experiences is a problem to you, then you should leave Masonry alone.

 

[crooner]

obviously you know little about Masons. Thats ok! I think its the higher ups in the organization that would be privy to such things. I am sure they will not talk about it either. Christians have been curious for years about this subject. I am not so sure its that important.

 

[cemab4y]

(crooner;31834)
What god do free masons worship. I have heard stories at the top it is Allah and not God who sent His son to save mankind. My dad is a mason. He doesnt have a clue.
Masonry is NOT a religion, no "worship" occurs. Masonry is a secular, man-made, inter-faith organization. Men of many different religious backgrounds and experiences, meet in Masonry as brothers and equals. In order to join, a man must already believe in God. If a mason later turns atheist, he will be expelled. This is similar to the situation in the Boy Scouts. In order to maintain peace and harmony in the lodge, discussions of religion and politics are absolutely forbidden. No individual Deity, is ever worshipped in a Masonic meeting.The meetings are opened and closed with a simple non-denominational prayer. (Just like the US congress, and the Supreme court).

 

[cemab4y]

(crooner;31836)
Same question for shriners?
The Shrine is NOT a masonic organization. The Shrine is an organization of men who are Masons, but there is a "wall of separation" between the two organizations. A man must be a Mason in good standing, before he can apply to the Shrine. If a man is a Shriner, and he later drops out of Masonry, then he must leave the Shrine as well.The Shrine is a philanthropic, humanitarian organization, whose charitable focus is a network of 19 orthopaedic hospitals, and three children's burns clinics. The Shrine also provides surgery for cleft lip and palate in children. ALL of our hospitals and surgery, and out-patient service is provided FREE. NO patient is ever charged one cent for our medical service. In a nation where 47 million people have no medical insurance at all, this is quite a program.If you would like to learn more about the Shriners and our hospital program please see:http://www.shrinershq.org

 

[cemab4y]

(tim_from_pa;31833)
Hi. Yes, I will admit that the practice is presented in as being clouded in mystery and subject to all kinds of speculation. The religious "right" tends to condemn it and call it a cult of some sort.That does not sway my opinion one way or another. I am often labeled the same way when I hold the (biblical) doctrine of believing in migrations of the lost ten tribes of Israel. As a matter of fact, in that regard, we may have some things in common.Since many of us hear all types of descriptions of freemasonry, why not start off with giving an overview of the practice from your point of view, and from that we can maybe focus in on more specific questions.Thanks.
There are many different understandings of the Fraternity. Masonry is like the "ink-blot" test you take in the psychologists office. You see what you want to see.For a concise "Cliff's Notes" description of the fraternity, please seehttp://www.masonic-renewal.org/freemasonry_explained.htmfor a more comprehensive description:http://www.masonicinfo.comTake a look at these sites, and if you have any questions, please send them to me. I am always delighted to talk about Masonry.

 

[cemab4y]

(crooner;32225)
obviously you know little about Masons. Thats ok! I think its the higher ups in the organization that would be privy to such things. I am sure they will not talk about it either. Christians have been curious for years about this subject. I am not so sure its that important.
I have been a Mason for 25 years. I have completed the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, and I hold the 32d Degree. I have studied the organization for decades, and I own an extensive Masonic library. I have visited lodges in 11 states, Washington DC, and three foreign countries (France, Saudi Arabia, and Russia). I work in Iraq, and I am establishing a lodge in Iraq. I have lectured on Masonry for many years, and I have published articles in Masonic journals. Trust me, I have a solid understanding of this organization.Everything in Masonry is published in books, and on the internet. Our goals and objectives, and our charitable work, is splattered out in public for all the world to see, if anyone is interested.Masonry invites serious study by the Mason and non-Mason alike. We hold nothing back, and conceal nothing.