Freemasonry

[Soverign Grace]

Heh, you have a way to put things Willie. No one told me to, I formed a conclusion after reading information about them. I could have concluded they were not after reading information from them and about them; however I concluded they are.

How about you? Do you think they are not because someone told you to, and you believe they are not or something?

I cannot see Willie's posts because I blocked him awhile back due to his abuse. It is out of place on a Christian forum and I wonder why he is even on here and not on a secular forum. I saw nothing of the love of Christ in him - only a weak man who likes to build himself up at the expense of others. He usually doesn't act alone but likes to play the game "gang-up" and will often work in concert with another. I urged another on here to block him because he was abusing them and of course you make your own decisions but remember that blocking him is an option. You will not see any of his posts - only someone's response.

Someone can disagree politely without being abusive but Willie doesn't do that. Only a weak person with a little ego finds it necessary to belittle another. I hope that he seeks help to get to the root of these behaviors. I wish him no harm and hope that he opens his heart to God and his sin.

There is always the possibility that someone will change their behavior and that of course is hoped for. But many times pride gets in the way and someone won't admit they have a problem. Hopefully at some point God shows all of us our sins. But until then I believe that God tells us to shake the dust off our feet. And pray for those that abuse us and despitefully use us.

 

[4Jesus]

As you already know - I researched this extensively and learned that they worship Lucifer. It's in question whether or not those in the lower degree of masonry are aware of the doings at the top. I haven't researched that so it's anyone's guess.

From what I understand, those in the lower tiers (the lower degrees), are required to believe in a or some sort of diety. They can enter with any belief they hold. A Christian can become a Freemason, along with Hindu, Muslim, etc. They are not required to renounce their faith.

Check out this one link (shouldn't take more than a half hour or so to read through) if you have spare time soon: DEMONIC FREEMASONRY: An Organization Within an Organization

It's well to note that the Vatican has been aware of the stealth moves to install a mason as Pope. They said "they only had to wait for the right Pope." And they got one. You can see where this Pope is implementing the NWO. He keeps telling the masses to accept refugees - it's the Christian thing to do. But his real motive is to break the cohesion in society. It's well-known that mass migration destroys a country's sovereignty.

One thing that bothers me about beliefs that Catholics hold, and Freemasons, is a belief in the "divine feminine"/"queen of heaven", because God plainly states in the Bible that "there is no queen of heaven"/false idol known as "queen of heaven":

Jeremiah 7:16-20 "16“Pray no more for these people, Jeremiah. Do not weep or pray for them, and don’t beg me to help them, for I will not listen to you. 17Don’t you see what they are doing throughout the towns of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem? 18No wonder I am so angry! Watch how the children gather wood and the fathers build sacrificial fires. See how the women knead dough and make cakes to offer to the Queen of Heaven. And they pour out liquid offerings to their other idol gods! 19Am I the one they are hurting?” asks the Lord. “Most of all, they hurt themselves, to their own shame.”
20So this is what the Sovereign Lord says: “I will pour out my terrible fury on this place. Its people, animals, trees, and crops will be consumed by the unquenchable fire of my anger.”"

Who is the Queen of Heaven? | GotQuestions.org

 

[4Jesus]

I cannot see Willie's posts because I blocked him awhile back due to his abuse. It is out of place on a Christian forum and I wonder why he is even on here and not on a secular forum. I saw nothing of the love of Christ in him - only a weak man who likes to build himself up at the expense of others. He usually doesn't act alone but likes to play the game "gang-up" and will often work in concert with another. I urged another on here to block him because he was abusing them and of course you make your own decisions but remember that blocking him is an option. You will not see any of his posts - only someone's response.

There is always the possibility that someone will change their behavior and that of course is hoped for. But many times pride gets in the way and someone won't admit they have a problem. Hopefully at some point God shows all of us our sins. But until then I believe that God tells us to shake the dust off our feet.

I'm willing to take his putdowns and opinions, even if it helps one other brother or sister in Christ to learn something new or to beware of to not be "snared by the devil".

I've dealt with people like him before - all the way back to high school bullying, so it's nothing new to me. I just hoped someone could disagree with a person without getting put down for it, especially here on a Christian forum and in adulthood. I still have a little hope that it changes I guess.

 

[Grailhunter]

You can't always dismiss truths by calling them "conspiracy theories." When you really look into this you see the confirmation of it all around. Walter Veith spoke of secret societies as did President Kennedy - and I never heard anyone dismiss Kennedy as a conspiracy theorist.

Conspiracy theories are pretty interesting. If you know the name of anyone involved with the American Revolutionary War, odds are good that they were Freemasons. And there are conspiracy theorists that believe that the United States is Satanic. And there are some conspiracy theorists that believe that John F. Kennedy's administration was the first step in America towards communism. There are a lot of stories like that.

 

[4Jesus]

Conspiracy theories are pretty interesting. If you know the name of anyone involved with the American Revolutionary War, odds are good that they were Freemasons. And there are conspiracy theorists that believe that the United States is Satanic. And there are some conspiracy theorists that believe that John F. Kennedy's administration was the first step in America towards communism. There are a lot of stories like that.

Regarding the view that the U.S. is satanic, I agree. Democracy/demoncracy and republics were carried over from Greece and Rome - not exactly Christian or Jewish forms of government.

There's some fun conspiracy theories regarding the Fed money we use: the pyramid with the "all seeing eye" (as referenced in regards to Egypt in those sources I listed above), the "out of many, one" (reference to the beast rising out of the sea (sea being the population of earth-dwellers), the owl (bohemian secret society symbol), etc.

I'm not even for the USA anymore, and I was born and raised here. I'm for a theocracy, specifically only one, ruled by Jesus Christ. That's where my mind and heart is nowadays.

The JFK theories are time-consuming; so much information to sift through. If I remember right, didn't he speak out against secret societies?

I don't know the names of anyone who fought in the Revolutionary War besides the most famous ones. There's a painting of Washington in his Freemason apron I've seen before, which has their "the great architect" symbolism on it.

 

[Willie T]

I cannot see Willie's posts because I blocked him awhile back due to his abuse. It is out of place on a Christian forum and I wonder why he is even on here and not on a secular forum. I saw nothing of the love of Christ in him - only a weak man who likes to build himself up at the expense of others. He usually doesn't act alone but likes to play the game "gang-up" and will often work in concert with another. I urged another on here to block him because he was abusing them and of course you make your own decisions but remember that blocking him is an option. You will not see any of his posts - only someone's response.

Someone can disagree politely without being abusive but Willie doesn't do that. Only a weak person with a little ego finds it necessary to belittle another. I hope that he seeks help to get to the root of these behaviors. I wish him no harm and hope that he opens his heart to God and his sin.

There is always the possibility that someone will change their behavior and that of course is hoped for. But many times pride gets in the way and someone won't admit they have a problem. Hopefully at some point God shows all of us our sins. But until then I believe that God tells us to shake the dust off our feet. And pray for those that abuse us and despitefully use us.

This is kind of humorous. She urges another to block me, but I am using "gang-up" tactics? This poor woman is ill in more ways than just physically. That is not belittling a woman who claims just about the whole world is against her... that is just stating plain facts.

 

[Soverign Grace]

Conspiracy theories are pretty interesting. If you know the name of anyone involved with the American Revolutionary War, odds are good that they were Freemasons. And there are conspiracy theorists that believe that the United States is Satanic. And there are some conspiracy theorists that believe that John F. Kennedy's administration was the first step in America towards communism. There are a lot of stories like that.

There are people who go over the edge with conspiracy theories and they give everyone a bad name. But if you have the President of the United States warning the American people about secret societies and is then assassinated, I'd say the case is pretty strong that there is something to it. I wouldn't label secret societies a conspiracy theory. It's a reality - as Professor Walter Veith and President JFK show us.

 

[4Jesus]

This is kind of humorous. She urges another to block me, but I am using "gang-up" tactics? This poor woman is ill in more ways than just physically. That is not belittling a woman who claims just about the whole world is against her... that is just stating plain facts.

It's not a gang-up on someone to suggest to another that they are being abused by someone, and the way to prevent it is to block/ignore someone. Now if she repeatedly urges another to block someone, then I'd see your point in how it's a gang-up on one person.

How can you conclude that "this poor woman is ill"? And in what other ways other than physically; do you mean spiritually?

I don't think she needs pity, nor is she ill. I think she's strong-minded, and a seeker of the truth. She's a believer in "the way, the truth, and the life" that is Jesus Christ. Jesus makes her strong.

She doesn't claim the whole world is against her. I don't think I've ever read that she thinks the whole world is against her. Please correct me if I'm wrong and quote her words where she has claimed "the whole world is against me" or some words to that effect.

 

[Grailhunter]

Regarding the view that the U.S. is satanic, I agree. Democracy/demoncracy and republics were carried over from Greece and Rome - not exactly Christian or Jewish forms of government.

There's some fun conspiracy theories regarding the Fed money we use: the pyramid with the "all seeing eye" (as referenced in regards to Egypt in those sources I listed above), the "out of many, one" (reference to the beast rising out of the sea (sea being the population of earth-dwellers), the owl (bohemian secret society symbol), etc.

I'm not even for the USA anymore, and I was born and raised here. I'm for a theocracy, specifically only one, ruled by Jesus Christ. That's where my mind and heart is nowadays.

The JFK theories are time-consuming; so much information to sift through. If I remember right, didn't he speak out against secret societies?

I don't know the names of anyone who fought in the Revolutionary War besides the most famous ones. There's a painting of Washington in his Freemason apron I've seen before, which has their "the great architect" symbolism on it.

Well there you go and there you have it.
Secret Societies have been around for a very long time, interesting study. Secrecy always spawns suspicion and fear. Historians are horrible at tracking them. Christians usually do not like secret organizations....But then you have the Order of Melchizedek, of which Christ was a High Priest. History has no record of that order, and it does not track through the scriptures, just suddenly mentioned in the New Testament. So what is that? If I remember correctly JFK did not like Freemasons.

 

[Willie T]

The concept of God as the Great Architect of the Universe has been used many times within Christianity. An illustration of God as the architect of the universe can be found in a Bible from the Middle Ages[1] and the comparison of God to an architect has been used by Christian apologists and teachers.

Thomas Aquinas said in the Summa: "God, Who is the first principle of all things, may be compared to things created as the architect is to things designed (ut artifex ad artificiata)."[2] Commentators have pointed out that the assertion that the Grand Architect of the Universe is the Christian God "is not evident on the basis of 'natural theology' alone but requires an additional 'leap of faith' based on the revelation of the Bible".[3]

John Calvin, in his Institutes of the Christian Religion (1536), repeatedly calls the Christian God "the Architect of the Universe", also referring to his works as "Architecture of the Universe", and in his commentary on Psalm 19 refers to the Christian God as the "Great Architect" or "Architect of the Universe".
(found online)

Billions of people around the world worship the same God we do. The fact that they understand Him differently does not make them "Satan Worshipers." Just what do you feel God/Jesus meant when He said He had "other sheep" in this world?

 

[Willie T]

It's not a gang-up on someone to suggest to another that they are being abused by someone, and the way to prevent it is to block/ignore someone. Now if she repeatedly urges another to block someone, then I'd see your point in how it's a gang-up on one person.

How can you conclude that "this poor woman is ill"? And in what other ways other than physically; do you mean spiritually?

I don't think she needs pity, nor is she ill. I think she's strong-minded, and a seeker of the truth. She's a believer in "the way, the truth, and the life" that is Jesus Christ. Jesus makes her strong.

She doesn't claim the whole world is against her. I don't think I've ever read that she thinks the whole world is against her. Please correct me if I'm wrong and quote her words where she has claimed "the whole world is against me" or some words to that effect.

Did you notice that you used the word, "suggest", but she used the other word you mentioned in a negative way, "urged"? That is a lot more "telling" than a photo of how someone happens to fold his hands. LOL

And, "NO", I did not mean "Spiritually". (Good casting, but the bait is weak.) I meant mentally. She, by her own admission, has a constant flood of "alternative" news feeds that drum this fanatical stuff into her mind incessantly. It is no wonder she has derailed herself.

 

[Enoch111]

...I see it as a social club...

That is what it is meant to look like from the outside. But the higher you go up the ladder of Freemasonry, the more OCCULTIC it gets. Therefore it cannot possibly be compatible with Christianity.

'Anton LaVey, the High Priest of the Church of Satan states:

"...Masonic orders have contained the most influential men in many governments, and virtually every occult order has many Masonic roots. (3) Freemasonry is not just an occult secret society. Freemasonry has served for over two hundred years as a fertile recruiting ground for other occult orders. Men who have come together to practice Masonry have many times down through the years formed other organizations to plunge even deeper into the occult...'

Freemasonry and the 20th Century Occult Revival

 

[4Jesus]

Well there you go and there you have it.

Do you disagree with the information I wrote? And I'm not saying you should agree with my view that the U.S. (its government, not all of it's people) is satanic - I know I'm different in that regard (and I didn't always think like this - being born and raised here I was proUSA most of my life after being indoctrinated into its system).

It's a world ruled by satan. Do you disagree with that? If not, don't you think every country is then, by inclusion of being in this world, ruled by him?

Some scripture:
-1 John 5:19 "And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness."
-Matthew 4: 8-10 "Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;9And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me."

Secret Societies have been around for a very long time, interesting study. Secrecy always spawns suspicion and fear. Historians are horrible at tracking them. Christians usually do not like secret organizations....But then you have the Order of Melchizedek, of which Christ was a High Priest. History has no record of that order, and it does not track through the scriptures, just suddenly mentioned in the New Testament. So what is that? If I remember correctly JFK did not like Freemasons.

I'm not sure about the Order of Melchizedek, I'd have to research it out of context of the Bible. I'll check it out. Thanks for giving me something new to look into.

Did you happen to read the information in the link I posted? If so, what are your thoughts on it?

 

[Willie T]

Many people treat Free Masonary as if it was the boogey man.
Personally, I see it as a social club that (like all groups) is what that person makes of it.

So did my father. He joined, and quickly bought (paid $) his way through the three required levels of Masonry in short order... to become a Shriner. (A few months, as I recall... don't really know... or care) He and his wife probably never saw either the Shriners (nor the Masons as a stepping stone) as anything but a Social Drinking and Traveling Club. And his wife was hooked on gambling and loved their Bingo Nights. They were Shriners and Presbyterians for about 30 years. LOL

 

[4Jesus]

Did you notice that you used the word, "suggest", but she used the other word you mentioned in a negative way, "urged"? That is a lot more "telling" than a photo of how someone happens to fold his hands. LOL

If it was only once, I can see urge, and my use of suggest, as being somewhat equal. If it was more than once, then yeah, I spoke wrong and shoud've said "urge".

If she believes someone is being abused, I'd hope she, or anyone, would urge them not to take abuse. Wouldn't you?

And, "NO", I did not mean "Spiritually". (Good casting, but the bait is weak.) I meant mentally. She, by her own admission, has a constant flood of "alternative" news feeds that drum this fanatical stuff into her mind incessantly. It is no wonder she has derailed herself.

I wasn't baiting you Willie, I was sincere. I thought you could have meant mentally, but to me, that could be considered more physical than spiritual, so I went with spiritual; and I wasn't even sure that is what you meant, so that's why I didn't assume and asked you a question. That's not baiting, that's not assuming and conversing nicely.

Is that how you think in terms of, baiting someone? I don't bait anyone, and didn't in this case - that's a false assumption on me.

Ok, she's interested in this "stuff". You are obviously not. You don't have to read what she writes, nor she what you write. None of us do.

You say "incessantly" like it's a negative thing about her personality though - like a dig at her, a put down. She might have the time, and care, to look into this or be involved, as much as she feels like she should. What's bad about that? Perhaps stop reading what she says (when it doesn't involve you of course)?

 

[4Jesus]

That is what it is meant to look like from the outside. But the higher you go up the ladder of Freemasonry, the more OCCULTIC it gets. Therefore it cannot possibly be compatible with Christianity.

'Anton LaVey, the High Priest of the Church of Satan states:

"...Masonic orders have contained the most influential men in many governments, and virtually every occult order has many Masonic roots. (3) Freemasonry is not just an occult secret society. Freemasonry has served for over two hundred years as a fertile recruiting ground for other occult orders. Men who have come together to practice Masonry have many times down through the years formed other organizations to plunge even deeper into the occult...'

Freemasonry and the 20th Century Occult Revival

I agree completely, from everything I've learned about them.

In addition to LaVey, who obviously doesn't try to hide his beliefs, Bailey, Pike, Weisaupt, and Hall all share the same beliefs in and worship satan/lucifer; and those I mentioned are/were leaders of Freemason teachings.

 

[Willie T]

If it was only once, I can see urge, and my use of suggest, as being somewhat equal. If it was more than once, then yeah, I spoke wrong and shoud've said "urge".

If she believes someone is being abused, I'd hope she, or anyone, would urge them not to take abuse. Wouldn't you?

I wasn't baiting you Willie, I was sincere. I thought you could have meant mentally, but to me, that could be considered more physical than spiritual, so I went with spiritual; and I wasn't even sure that is what you meant, so that's why I didn't assume and asked you a question. That's not baiting, that's not assuming and conversing nicely.

Is that how you think in terms of, baiting someone? I don't bait anyone, and didn't in this case - that's a false assumption on me.

Ok, she's interested in this "stuff". You are obviously not. You don't have to read what she writes, nor she what you write. None of us do.

You say "incessantly" like it's a negative thing about her personality though - like a dig at her, a put down. She might have the time, and care, to look into this or be involved, as much as she feels like she should. What's bad about that? Perhaps stop reading what she says (when it doesn't involve you of course)?

It IS a negative thing to ONLY read or listen to one POV... And from what she has said in her posts, it really is incessantly. (You could well educate yourself to go back through the last couple of hundred of her posts... it's eye-opening.) I actually watch as much CNN and MSNBC, etc., as I do FOX. It is hard to stomach at times, but I want to hear all sides.

 

[Willie T]

Because I do CNN, etc., I can agree with a lot the Liberals say. Trump IS an egotistical blowhard. BUT, my beef with most of you is using the same exaggeration he applies in mostly positive ways (though not always), in a negative attempt to demonstrate things that don't exist.

Let's just take about the FIRST thing Liberals started calling him a liar about. He said he had a crowd of "ten thousand". None of us know how big it was because no official count exists. But, say it was only 8 thousand.... he did NOT lie because he felt it was larger. Yes, he boasted, he may have exaggerated. But he did not look at a count that said 8 thousand, and deliberately claim it was 10.

To bring it home, would you refuse 8 thousand dollars from me if I had told you I was giving you 10. Would you reject it because I lied? Of course you wouldn't. And, if you are honest about it, you wouldn't return 2 thousand back to my door, either, if you discovered it actually was 12 thousand.

Say he exaggerated, fine. He may have.... or he may not have. None of us know for sure. But, the Liberals have insisted on calling him a liar about that point...… and they keep on doing it any time he is the least bit inaccurate on something.

Same way with the wall. Congress buried him on that, and yet he still managed to get about 13% built without their help. (Something most recent presidents said they were for) But, again, he is called a liar because he has not had the support to get that very necessary job completed.... yet.

 

[4Jesus]

It IS a negative thing to ONLY read or listen to one POV... And from what she has said in her posts, it really is incessantly. (You could well educate yourself to go back through the last couple of hundred of her posts... it's eye-opening.) I actually watch as much CNN and MSNBC, etc., as I do FOX. It is hard to stomach at times, but I want to hear all sides.

You stated that she listens to "flood of "alternative" news feeds", which is more than one POV. It's plural. Or do you mean that they all say the same thing, just from different sources? If so, how do you know, only because of what she has written? Could she listen to alternative feeds within the "alternative news feeds"? Just because she hasn't written about those, doesn't mean she isn't reading them. Maybe try asking her?

And I agree with your stance on being informed with as many sides as possible. I read/watch both right and left, conservative and liberal bias sources. I've found one of the best ways (although not bullet proof) to find the truth is to cross-reference the information, at least as best as possible, and deduce from there.

But not everyone thinks like that, agreed? Some are strict right/conservative/Fox/OANN readers/watchers, and some are strict left/liberal/MSNBC/CNN readers/watchers. Others are "alternative" sourced (either or both right/left, conservative/liberal biased also), and still others read/watch none of it.

I hope you'd think the same of everyone else who doesn't fit into your POV, and it's not just about her.

 

[Grailhunter]

Do you disagree with the information I wrote? And I'm not saying you should agree with my view that the U.S. (its government, not all of it's people) is satanic - I know I'm different in that regard (and I didn't always think like this - being born and raised here I was proUSA most of my life after being indoctrinated into its system).

It's a world ruled by satan. Do you disagree with that? If not, don't you think every country is then, by inclusion of being in this world, ruled by him?

Some scripture:
-1 John 5:19 "And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness."
-Matthew 4: 8-10 "Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;9And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me."



I'm not sure about the Order of Melchizedek, I'd have to research it out of context of the Bible. I'll check it out. Thanks for giving me something new to look into.

Did you happen to read the information in the link I posted? If so, what are your thoughts on it?

It's a world ruled by satan. Do you disagree with that? If not, don't you think every country is then, by inclusion of being in this world, ruled by him?

That is an interesting point. You remember when Satan took Christ up on a mountain to tempt Him. He showed him the nations of the world and offered them to Him. At that time Satan had everything that was good bottled up in Jerusalem. Not exactly the same thing today.

The Freemasons, as you know children's hospitals a other children charities. But they are perfect target for conspiracy theories.