Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
What’s wrong with me?
I am not the one sending people to hell which never was given a chance. And claiming to be an all-loving God
freewill? na
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I am not the one sending people to hell which never was given a chance. And claiming to be an all-loving God
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Yep
and people names get erased from the book of life
so did God make mistakes. Or was everyone’s names written, and one by one when someone dies in unbelief they are removed
God does everything perfectly!
It is your understanding of the Gospel that is flawed.
All the names of those whom God chose, elected, and predestined to salvation in eternity past, before the foundation of the world are the only ones that are written in the book of life, and it is impossible for their names to be erased from the book of life BECAUSE they were given eternal life at the time of conversion.
To God Be The Glory
Again, your understanding of the Gospel is flawed.
People go to hell because they are sinners!
To God Be The Glory
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God sends no one to hell. You choose it. Because you reject God. Has anyone understood why the two of the groups at the White Throne Judgment are Death and Hell are delivered up to be judged. And if their names are not in the Lambs book of life are cast into the Lake of Fire? Has anyone read and understood why the Apostle wrote wrote death reigned from Adam to Moses. Has anyone read and understood why the apostle wrote wrote that Christ went to the the ones in prison who were before the flood and preached the Gospel that they to might be judged according to the gospel of Christ. Understanding these things will give you a better understanding that God sends no one to Hell. You send yourself.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
do tell..what is my gospel? I have yet to tell you what I believe, so this should be good. Please tell for all to see
Yes they are I never stated otherwise
however. As John said
Rev 3: 5: He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels
who is he who overcomes?
For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith
So yeah. Everyone chosen is written but if only believers (free will) are not blotted out, it must be unbelievers that are blotted out.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Again tell me my gospel
my Bible says those who are condemned are unbelievers
we are all sinners my friend, if sinners go to hell we all will be headed there
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
John 1 proves freewill, which is opposite of your claim.
In John 1:11 they did not choose to receive Jesus, but rejected Him.
John 1:12 says that those who RECEIVE Jesus become sons of God.
Receiving something, like the free gift of salvation, requires choosing to RECEIVE it. Gifts can be refused, by choice.
So how was Israel able to refuse to receive their Messiah? Let’s see:
Israel was God’s elect. Isaiah 45:4.
Israel is who Jesus specifically came for, Matthew 15:24.
Yet though they were Gods elect, and Jesus came specifically to save them, they rejected Him - which is impossible to do in reformed election doctrines (which falsifies Calvinism).
Joh 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him NOT.
Yes, this is the same people that Jesus, (who is God), came for, and He yearned for them to come to Him, but He didn’t get what he so greatly desired:
Luk 13:34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and AND YE WOULD NOT!
The above is impossible in Calvinism - yet it happened. Jesus came for His own, His elect, and they rejected Him and rejected salvation:
Act 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
Stephen preached to those elect Jews who rejected Jesus in John 1:11, who refused to come to Jesus (though He yearned for them to) Luke 13:34, and explained HOW they were able to reject and kill Jesus, and to kill the prophets God sent them - because they resist the Holy Spirit.
Yes, the Holy Spirit, who draws us to Jesus, and without Him no man can say Jesus is Lord,
is not irresistible.
There’s no irresistible grace - because God allows us the free will to resist the Holy Spirit.
Stephen said:
Act 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always RESIST THE HOLY GHOST: as your fathers did, so do ye.
Act 7:52 Which of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? And they killed those who announced beforehand the coming of the Righteous One, whom you have now betrayed and murdered (Jesus).
Then they stoned Stephen to death, too.
The elect nation of Israel was chosen and drawn by the Holy Spirit - we know the HS drew them else there would be nothing for them to RESIST - and yet had freewill to reject their own messiah, sent only to them, originally.
Want proof of freewill in the OT, too?
Let me know.
Ah, the free will argument again. The early church writers put this to rest when they refuted the Gnostics.
Come on, that cute little kid with the stuffed tiger?
For when one says, “I am of Paul,” and another, “I am of Apollos,” are you not carnal? 1 Corinthians 1:12
" A mind is a terrible thing to waste"
Martin Luther wrote this book a while back called " the bondage of the will". Its part of "reformation theology. "
His writings aren't inspired, but for a Catholic monk he was pretty intelligent and attempted to "push back " on non biblical doctrines. For his efforts, the church tried to kill him.
I never read the book because I already understand the concept just from reading scripture. If we are saved by the will of God and not our own, which scripture says, then where is free will? If we are born creatures of wrath, spiritually dead, slaves of sin, which scripture says, where is free will?
I hope the Lord bends John Wesley over His knee at the Bema seat and gives him a good spanking for throwing such wild notions into sound doctrine.
truthquest
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It always amazes me when people say that we don't have freewill.
The Most High God wants us to have freewill and gave us freewill. But the enemy Satan the devil and his servants do not want us to have freewill. They know that we have freewill. That's why they work so hard to overcome/take away someone's freewill so that they can have complete control over them. They use all kinds of methods to do that. Of course, all those methods are evil because they are evil.
But these evil people not only want to eliminate a person's freewill. They also want to eliminate a person's conscience. Then the person will be like a robot. They will do what they're told without question. They won't even have control over their own mind at that point because that too will be controlled.
The Most High God wants us to have freewill and gave us freewill. But the enemy Satan the devil and his servants do not want us to have freewill. They know that we have freewill. That's why they work so hard to overcome/take away someone's freewill so that they can have complete control over them. They use all kinds of methods to do that. Of course, all those methods are evil because they are evil.
But these evil people not only want to eliminate a person's freewill. They also want to eliminate a person's conscience. Then the person will be like a robot. They will do what they're told without question. They won't even have control over their own mind at that point because that too will be controlled.
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Joh 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
also one doesn't acknowledge what they don't know, such as atheists and those who don't know the living God but may have heard of God. and they don't know or acknowledge because they never have experienced or its never been revealed to them personally. and no one makes God reveal Himself or make Himself known to some one.
and one should understand those that do not have the Light revealed to them remain in the darkness they were born into. which is the case with all men Jews and gentile, unless the Lord do otherwise.
men can hear the truth until the cows come home, and they will still be in the dark, unless the Lord God reveal the Truth of Himself to them which is God's choice to do. many are called, few are chosen. no one invites themselves into heaven.
you many be able to chose apples and oranges but in the case of the Lord God, He choses, its His creation to do so. He chose the Israelites for a certain purpose. mainly to bring Christ into the world of which He did, but the Lord God isn't stupid He knows man's nature and what to expect of it, and you can bet He didn't expect Jesus to be received since it was Jesus' mission to die on the cross in the first place.
paul explains further:
Rom 9:1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,
Rom 9:2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.
Rom 9:3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
Rom 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
Rom 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Rom 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
Rom 9:9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.
Rom 9:10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
Rom 9:12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Rom 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
Rom 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
Rom 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
Rom 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
and what of Israel why only Israel experiences the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob in those days? Abraham walked with God why not anyone else out of the millions of people in those days?
also the circumstances to be in need of deliverance isn't a choice, its only the deliverer's choice to deliver some one or not.
also this is not about Calvinist theology, that's something else. you want to debate Calvinism start another thread.
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Ziggy
Well-Known Member
You ever have one of those .. I never saw that before.. moments?
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
I always thought this meant that it was impossible for those who were once enlightened, to fall away.
That's not what it says though.
It says.. It is impossible for those that fall away, to renew them again unto repentance.
Falling away has to be more than just going off the track. It has to be an about face, deliberately in the opposite direction.
Is this a choice, and act of freewill, or does God choose who will fall away?
What's that Peter? ..
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Just thinking..
Hugs
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
I always thought this meant that it was impossible for those who were once enlightened, to fall away.
That's not what it says though.
It says.. It is impossible for those that fall away, to renew them again unto repentance.
Falling away has to be more than just going off the track. It has to be an about face, deliberately in the opposite direction.
Is this a choice, and act of freewill, or does God choose who will fall away?
What's that Peter? ..
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Just thinking..
Hugs
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
you didn't chose to be born into condemnation, a state of sin when you came into the world, and your not the one who choses to deliver you from that or not. most walk through their whole lives not realizing they need saved from something. why? could it be they don't know and how could they know unless God reveal the Truth to them.
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