From the pen of Ellen White

[BarneyFife]

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Yeah, when all else fails, calling sound scriptural teaching cultic is all the rage.

Easy, too. Requires no real effort to make an argument.
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[BarneyFife]

Still a cult. May be a Christian cult- but still a cult. Just like romanism and others.

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Don't forget Calvinism.
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[Behold]

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Ya think?
"It's all just a dream?"
That doesn't really seem terribly clever to me.
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MBE was talking about "The Matrix" 100 yrs before Keanu Reeves became "the ONE".

She was quite a hybrid of religious ideas.... some middle eastern, some gnostic.. all sorts of religious ideas became her Theology.
She morphed it all into her Christian Science, concept.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

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Don't forget Calvinism.
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And covenantalism.

 

[Brakelite]

Im not suggesting anything. I just stated that she teaches "soul sleep", and does not believe that Christ rejectors end up in Hell or the Lake of Fire.

Also, if you want to find out where "soul sleep" originated you need to research Origen of Alexandria.
He created this theolgy long before Martin Luther or Ellen White spoke about it.
Its possible that it was originated by Pagans, but Origen brought it into the realm of Christianity.

How about Luke? And Jesus? At least in the Christian era. Acts 7:60. And the story of Lazarus. "Don't worry about a thing guys, he's just asleep. I'm going to wake him up."
And Daniel 12:2. Seems to be a fairly common theme throughout scripture... Far too common for anyone to be accusing people of poor theology when that same theology is based on scripture don't you think?

 

[Brakelite]

Ellen White does not believe in a literal hell, or a literal lake of fire.

From her most well known book...I suggest you read it... The Great Controversy
While the earth was wrapped in the fire of destruction, the righteous abode safely in the Holy City. Upon those that had part in the first resurrection, the second death has no power. While God is to the wicked a consuming fire, He is to His people both a sun and a shield. {GC 673}
Since it is impossible for God, consistently with His justice and mercy, to save the sinner in his sins, He deprives him of the existence which his transgressions have forfeited and of which he has proved himself unworthy. Says an inspired writer: "Yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be." And another declares: "They shall be as though they had not been." Psalm 37:10; Obadiah 16. Covered with infamy, they sink into hopeless, eternal oblivion... Thus will be made an end of sin, with all the woe and ruin which have resulted from it. {GC 544}

The wicked suffer in the lake of fire according to their works, then they die. Literally.

KJV Malachi 4:1
1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch .
That is the second death. No resurrection. No hope. No future. No life. At all. Unless of course you want to argue in favor of the natural immortality of man. But I doubt you would do that seeing there's no biblical foundation for it. I suppose that inventing doctrine such as man's innate immortality, as did the ancient Greeks believe, could be classified as being akin to a cultic belief you think?
Again, her theology is biblical theology.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

How about Luke? And Jesus? At least in the Christian era. Acts 7:60. And the story of Lazarus. "Don't worry about a thing guys, he's just asleep. I'm going to wake him up."
And Daniel 12:2. Seems to be a fairly common theme throughout scripture... Far too common for anyone to be accusing people of poor theology when that same theology is based on scripture don't you think?

YOu are speaking of the physical body- that sleeps. But the soul of man stays alive. IN the OT the lost went to the place of torments and the saved went to Abrahams bosom/paradise. Since Jesus ascended, the righteous go straight to be with the Lord tho0ugh our bodies go into the ground to "sleep". the body does, but the soul doesn't.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

No, she didn't. A messenger yes, a prophet, no. She refused any title that would tend to remove Jesus from anyone's focus.

Her theology? Are you suggesting she made it up herself, and was the first to teach soul sleep? Ever heard of Martin Luther?
" We should learn to view our death in the right light, so that we need not become alarmed on account of it, as unbelief does; because in Christ it is indeed not death, but a fine, sweet and brief sleep, which brings us release from this vale of tears, from sin and from the fear and extremity of real death and from all the misfortunes of this life, and we shall be secure and without care, rest sweetly and gently for a brief moment, as on a sofa, until the time when He shall awaken us together with all His dear children to His eternal glory and joy...For since we call it a sleep, we know that we shall not remain in it, but be again awakened and live, and that the time during which we sleep, shall seem no longer than if we had just fallen asleep... Hence we shall censure ourselves that we were surprised or alarmed at such a sleep in the hour of death, and suddenly come alive out of the grave and from decomposition, and entirely well, fresh, with a pure, clear, glorified life, meet our Lord and savior Jesus Christ in the clouds...Scripture everywhere affords such consolation, which speaks of the death of the saints, as if they fell asleep and were gathered to their fathers, that is had overcome death through this faith and comfort in Christ, and awaited the resurrection, together with the saints who preceded them in death." Martin Luther


Bible...

His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish (Psalm 146:4).

For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun (Ecclesiastes 9:5-6).

For in death there is no remembrance of You (Psalm 6:5 NKJV).

The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence (Psalm 115:17).

So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep (Job 14:12).

So no, Ellen White didn't invent 'soul sleep', for want of a better expression, nor was she the first to teach it.

No she did not invent soul sleep, but she became the leader of SDA and it was her belief so it is her doctrine though she didn't invent it.

Using OT passages is disingenuous. The Psalmist nor Solomon knew about the death, burial and physical resurrection of Jesus either! Just because God hadn't revealed the trichotomous nature of man until c. David doesn't make it any less true

 

[BarneyFife]

YOu are speaking of the physical body- that sleeps. But the soul of man stays alive.

M

Greek dualism--not Christianity.

M

she became the leader of SDA

MMM

Never happened. What all do you know about Adventist history, without having to Google it?

MMM

Using OT passages is disingenuous.

M

Unless you simply don't believe that God has two or more different ways of saving people.

M

Just because God hadn't revealed the trichotomous nature of man

M

Trichotomous?? This is barely even identifiable as a theological term. When did He do this?

M

 

[Brakelite]

YOu are speaking of the physical body- that sleeps. But the soul of man stays alive. IN the OT the lost went to the place of torments and the saved went to Abrahams bosom/paradise. Since Jesus ascended, the righteous go straight to be with the Lord tho0ugh our bodies go into the ground to "sleep". the body does, but the soul doesn't.

In other words man is immortal? He doesn't 'surely' die? You are aware as to who started that doctrine aren't you?

 

[Brakelite]

Trichotomous?? This is barely even identifiable as a theological term. When did He do this?

I think he is suggesting we are descended from dinosaurs. I saw one of those in Jurassic Park 2.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Unless you simply don't believe that God has two or more different ways of saving people.

Everyone is aved because of the blood of Jesus. But OT saints did not know to call upon HIs name. so the object of their faith was different in different ages.

Man has an immortal soul

Well if all the links google has about SDA are lying- sure would like to see you refute tham all.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

In other words man is immortal? He doesn't 'surely' die? You are aware as to who started that doctrine aren't you?

Man was made immortal in body, soul and spirit! When Adam sinned , th ebody began to die. but not teh soul and spirit. Otherwise you consider Paul an idiot when He asked God to bless us body, soul and spirit!

 

[Wrangler]

I was hoping to learn wisdom from Ellen White. I never heard of her until being on these boards. Sad this thread is a bashing thread, inconsistent with Phil 4:8.

I'll start a thread on sour milk. I hate sour milk. I hear sour grapes a lot too but don't know much about it.

 

[BarneyFife]

Well if all the links google has about SDA are lying- sure would like to see you refute tham all.

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Well, here's a few from one of the more popular hatesites:


Why is SDA so obsessed with the Sabbath?
Why is SDA so obsessed with the Sabbath?
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It's just copied and pasted junk from nonsda.org

Sorry, Ron, but I'm not going another round with you. You just ignore and/or talk past the stuff you can't refute.

God be with you.
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[Ronald Nolette]

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Well, here's a few from one of the more popular hatesites:


Why is SDA so obsessed with the Sabbath?
Why is SDA so obsessed with the Sabbath?
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It's just copied and pasted junk from nonsda.org

Sorry, Ron, but I'm not going another round with you. You just ignore and/or talk past the stuff you can't refute.

God be with you.
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I usually do not go to hate sites. Just sites that expose false teachings of groups.

From the Brittanica:

Ellen Gould Harmon White, née Ellen Gould Harmon, (born Nov. 26, 1827, Gorham, Maine, U.S.—died July 16, 1915, St. Helena, Calif.), American religious leader who was one of the founders of the Seventh-day Adventist Church and whose prophecies and other guidance were central to that denomination’s early growth.

So unless you got proof E White wasn't the head of SDA or that Britannicca is lying.... Don't think we can define the Britannica a hates site.

Is Ellen White the Last of God’s Prophets? (spectrummagazine.org)

This is the SDA own publication! So nice try!

 

[BarneyFife]

I usually do not go to hate sites. Just sites that expose false teachings of groups.

From the Brittanica:

Ellen Gould Harmon White, née Ellen Gould Harmon, (born Nov. 26, 1827, Gorham, Maine, U.S.—died July 16, 1915, St. Helena, Calif.), American religious leader who was one of the founders of the Seventh-day Adventist Church and whose prophecies and other guidance were central to that denomination’s early growth.

So unless you got proof E White wasn't the head of SDA or that Britannicca is lying.... Don't think we can define the Britannica a hates site.

Is Ellen White the Last of God’s Prophets? (spectrummagazine.org)

This is the SDA own publication! So nice try!

From the bottom of the page of the Spectrum article:

Adventist Forum, publisher of SPECTRUM and spectrummagazine.org, is an independent non-profit 501(c)(3) organization committed to promoting community through conversation in the Seventh-day Adventist Church.

List of presidents of the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists - Wikipedia

I don't think Britannica are liars, Ron.

But I think you might be pretty anxious to defame the Adventist church and Mrs. White.

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[Ronald Nolette]

From the bottom of the page of the Spectrum article:

Adventist Forum, publisher of SPECTRUM and spectrummagazine.org, is an independent non-profit 501(c)(3) organization committed to promoting community through conversation in the Seventh-day Adventist Church.

List of presidents of the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists - Wikipedia

I don't think Britannica are liars, Ron.

But I think you might be pretty anxious to defame the Adventist church and Mrs. White.

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No just their false doctrine. YOu should stop making assumptive thoughts that lead you to false conclusions.

 

[BarneyFife]

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No denial or admission of your error in assuming Spectrum Magazine is published by the church or that Mrs. White was indeed ever in a leadership position in the church. But, then, you never acknowledge the falsehood of any of your blustering, careless claims.

If you meant no harm, then you are not expressing yourself very well. Zealous misrepresentation usually indicates malicious intent. Whether this was your intent or not, you made it appear that way with statements such as:

So unless you got proof E White wasn't the head of SDA or that Britannicca is lying.... Don't think we can define the Britannica a hates site.

This is the SDA own publication! So nice try!

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Very nice

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[Brakelite]

“What is justification by faith? It is the work of God in laying the glory of man in the dust, and doing for man that which it is not in his power to do for himself. When men see their own nothingness, they are prepared to be clothed with the righteousness of Christ.”—The Faith I Live By, p. 109.