1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Gabriel’s message to Daniel is extremely relevant

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by Enoch111, Apr 16, 2020.

  1. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,805
    Likes Received:
    8,698
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    DANIEL 9: SEVENTY WEEKS OF YEARS WERE PREDETERMINED
    21 Yea, whiles I [Daniel] was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.
    22 And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.
    23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.
    24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
    25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

    26
    And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
    27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    We generally hear about Daniel’s prophecy of Seventy Weeks, but in fact it was the angel Gabriel who gave this revelation to Daniel as instructed by God, since only God knows the end from the beginning. So what do we learn from this prophecy that is relevant for today as well as for the future of this earth?

    1. There will universal and perfect peace and eternal righteousness on earth after Christ establishes the Kingdom of God on earth.

    Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.”

    In Hebrew it is “seventy sevens” (shabua = heptads) or weeks of years that are predicted. That means 490 years, but since there have been over 2,600 years since this prophecy was given, it should be clear that what is stated above will be in the future, and that there will be a wide time gap between the 69th and the 70th week of Daniel. Therefore anyone who claims that this prophecy has been already fulfilled is lying.

    2. Seventy weeks began with the first year of the reign of Cyrus king of Persia and will end after the Second Coming of Christ
    “Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem...”

    It was Cyrus the Great who gave this commandment to restore and build Jerusalem:
    Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of the LORD spoken by the mouth of Jeremiah might be accomplished, the LORD stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and put it also in writing, saying, Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, All the kingdoms of the earth hath the LORD God of heaven given me; and he hath charged me to build him an house in Jerusalem, which is in Judah. Who is there among you of all his people? The LORD his God be with him, and let him go up”. (2 Chron 36:22,23, cf. Ezra 1:1-4)

    It has generally been postulated (according to the chronology of Ptolemy) that the first year of Cyrus was 536 BC. But since this prophecy of Daniel puts 483 years between this proclamation and the crucifixion of Christ in 30 AD, that date is incorrect. Therefore the proclamation of Cyrus could not have gone out earlier than 453 BC. This is based on this statement:
    ...the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks... And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself.

    Seven weeks = 7 x 7 years = 49 years

    Three score weeks = 3 x 20 x 7 years = 420 years
    Two weeks = 2 x 7 years = 14 years
    49 + 420 + 14 = 483 years
    490 - 483 = 7 years

    This still leaves one week or 7 years which have been unfulfilled since the crucifixion of Christ.


    3. The Antichrist is “the prince that shall come” and his coming is in the future to bring desolations upon the earth
    “...and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.”


    The key to understanding this prediction is “desolations”, meaning that the earth is made desolate through divine judgments. And the connecting link to these desolations is the Abomination of Desolation:
    And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.(Dan 11:31 cf Mt 24:15; Rev 13)

    The Antichrist will set up an animated idol within the future temple at Jerusalem and demand that the whole world worship this image, just as Nebuchadnezzar made an image and demanded that all his subjects worship that image. This image and this worship will be extremely abhorrent to God (hence called an “abomination”). Therefore God will send judgments upon the earth to make it desolate, as we see when the 7th seal is opened and the seven angels sound their seven trumpets (Revelation 8 & 9).

    4. The Antichrist will make a false covenant of peace with Israel, then desecrate the future temple at Jerusalem
    And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.”

    The Antichrist is called “the prince of the covenant” (Dan 11:22), but the covenant to give peace to Israel and allow the temple sacrifices will be totally false, and after 3 ½ years, that covenant will end, sacrifices will cease, and the Abomination of Desolation shall be set up. This will trigger the desolations which will come upon the earth.

    We know from other Scriptures that the Antichrist will be utterly destroyed by the Lord Jesus Christ, and only after that will the Christ’s Kingdom on earth be established in order to fulfil this prophecy.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2020
    Nancy and Heart2Soul like this.
  2. Joseph77

    Joseph77 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,746
    Likes Received:
    1,351
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Every message from God is 'extremely' ? relevant - LIFE! LIFE-GIVING !
     
  3. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,303
    Likes Received:
    872
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Australia
    So you are an advocate of the 3,000 or so gap years in the above passage.
     
  4. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,805
    Likes Received:
    8,698
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    That is the logical conclusion if we believe that there will be eternal righteousness on earth. Over 2600 years have gone by since this prophecy was given, and as we speak there is more evil in the world than ever before -- with criminals actually being released from prison to go out and murder, rape, and terrorize innocent citizens. It will get even worse before the Second Coming of Christ. So anywhere between 2600 and 3000 years would be reasonable. Also, the third temple must be built in Jerusalem.
     
  5. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,303
    Likes Received:
    872
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Australia
    Did Jesus say that a third temple had to be built before the end of the Age of the Ages? If so provide the scriptural references.
     
  6. Stan B

    Stan B Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,243
    Likes Received:
    732
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    Since the Anti-christ is going to occupy the Temple during the Tribulation, and declare himself as God, there has to be a temple present at that time for it to happen.
     
    Davy likes this.
  7. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,303
    Likes Received:
    872
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Australia
    But your expressed opinion is lacking in scriptural backing. Did not Jesus state in Matt 24:15 actually state that the abomination of desolation would stand in the holy spot/place, but is this a reference to standing in the Temple or have you read that into this verse?
     
  8. Stan B

    Stan B Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,243
    Likes Received:
    732
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    For Israel, the Temple is the Holy Place.

    The detailed requirements for the third temple are found in the last 8 or so chapters of Ezekiel.
     
  9. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,303
    Likes Received:
    872
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Australia
    So you are reading into the silence of the scriptures
     
  10. Stan B

    Stan B Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,243
    Likes Received:
    732
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    No, the Bible is quite verbal on the Antichrist: “Who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or an object of worship, so that he seats himself in the temple of God, proclaiming himself that he is God.” This fulfills the prophecy concerning Antichrist in Daniel 11:36 and 37. This will take place in the midst of the last week, as prophesied in Daniel 9:27.
     
    Davy and Heart2Soul like this.
  11. quietthinker

    quietthinker Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,697
    Likes Received:
    2,071
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Australia
    I am curious Stan.....how can you take a time prophecy where a starting time is given with continuing details then chop the last portion off and make it apply to some unknown time thousands of years in the future ?
    Would it not be more appropriate if a seperate prophecy was given altogether applying to a 'week' in the far future rather than butchering the the continuum of the given prophecy?

    Cutting that last week off the 70 weeks doesn't make sense and secondly it smells decidedly of an attempt to jam prophecy into a conception of events that are patently out of whack with other prophetic narratives.
     
  12. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,303
    Likes Received:
    872
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Australia
    But the two passages are silent as to where the events mentioned with take place.

    Do you have any other scriptural passages that back up your theory?
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2020
  13. Stan B

    Stan B Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,243
    Likes Received:
    732
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    The Man of Lawlessness
    …2 not to be easily disconcerted or alarmed by any spirit or message or letter seeming to be from us, alleging that the Day of the Lord has already come. 3 Let no one deceive you in any way, for it will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness (the son of destruction) is revealed. 4 He will oppose and exalt himself above every so-called god or object of worship. So he will seat himself in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.… 2 Thessalonians 2
     
  14. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,180
    Likes Received:
    196
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    That is Satan, who is anti Christ.
     
  15. Stan B

    Stan B Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,243
    Likes Received:
    732
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    The Man of Sin is not Satan. He is a man!! Satan is never designated as a man in the Bible. You are the first person I have ever heard saying it is Satan.
     
    Nancy and Reggie Belafonte like this.
  16. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,180
    Likes Received:
    196
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    2 Thessalonians 2 Says it is a man and Paul said was already at work before the NT. The strong delusion is being exposed, so truth can get a small hold like the sower of God’s Word in the parable of the sower.

    Of course Satan is not a biological man, he can only change parts of his image enough to fool humans. Once they become disciples, they see him as he truly is.
     
  17. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,303
    Likes Received:
    872
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Australia
    How can Satan sit himself in the "temple of God," if the physical Temple built by man as a resident for God on the face of the earth has already been destroyed by the very people who first built that residence.

    For Satan to be sitting in the temple of God, there first must be a great falling away of the Saints.

    Jesus in John 2:19 stated prophetically that if the Jews cause the physical temple in Jerusalem to be destroyed, that He would rebuild a spiritual Temple out of the building blocks of the individual Saints and we are also told that Jesus is the foundation stone of that Temple. The above quoted passage cannot be understood literally but must be understood metaphorically as it is speaking spiritually of a future "temple" of the saints who will have fallen away at that time.

    Shalom
     
  18. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,805
    Likes Received:
    8,698
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    It is the Romans -- not the Jews -- who destroyed the second temple (also known as Herod's temple), because God brought judgment upon the Jews for rejecting Christ, and used the Romans.

    However, Satan (or the Antichrist possessed or totally controlled by Satan) will indeed sit in a future literal temple in Jerusalem (2 Thess 2) in order to fulfil the prophecies concerning the Antichrist and the Abomination of Desolation. This is clearly spelled out in Scripture.

    God has assigned 3 1/2 years to the Antichrist. This is confirmed in several ways, since it is called 1260 days, 42 months, and time (1 yr) + times (2 yrs) + half a time or the dividing of time (6 mths). That is also when the Antichrist places the Abomination of Desolation within the Holy Place of the temple.

    THE WORDS OF CHRIST
    When ye therefore shall see the Abomination of Desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the Holy Place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)... [Note: this was said after Christ prophesied the destruction of Herod's temple which took place in 70 AD]

    THE WORDS OF DANIEL
    And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the Abomination that maketh desolate. (Dan 11:31)

    Now we need to carefully note "and shall take away the daily sacrifice". Where else except in the temple of Jerusalem can there be a daily sacrifice? And since there is no temple there at present, it should be obvious that Orthodox Jews will build that temple (regardless of the Muslim Dome of the Rock). They have already made detailed plans for this.

    Therefore the Holy Spirit -- through Daniel -- made this prediction also:
    And he [the prince that shall come = the prince of the covenant = the Antichrist] shall confirm the covenant with many for one week [seven years]: and in the midst of the week [3 1/2 years] he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. (Dan 9:27) [Note: the "desolation" refers the desolation of the earth through divine judgments during and after the reign of the Antichrist, as described in the 7th seal judgments]

    THE WORDS OF THE APOSTLE JOHN
    So the Antichrist will make a covenant with Israel and allow the daily sacrifices (and other sacrifices) within the future temple, and then BREAK HIS COVENANT in order to stop those sacrifices, so that the Abomination of Desolation is worshiped. Thus we have this prophecy in Revelation:
    And he [the False Prophet and companion of the Antichrist] had power to give life unto the image of the Beast [the Antichrist], that the image of the Beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the Beast should be killed. (Rev 13:15) [Note: this image will be animated by the power of Satan so that it actually speaks, another counterfeit miracle]

    What should concern everyone is the skepticism of Christians who claim to believe the whole Bible, then try to avoid the plain meaning of Scripture.
     
    Nancy, 07-07-07 and Stan B like this.
  19. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,180
    Likes Received:
    196
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    First off, this logic that Christ and God Himself cannot enter what we call the physical has got to stop. When this man of sin is finally revealed to all of humanity, God Himself with Jesus Christ by His Side will be in evidence so no one here alive at this time will have an excuse.

    Up until that point we can keep pretending that being spiritual is just a state of mind, when the truth is we are surrounded by the spiritual all the time, but cannot experience it in fallen human flesh.
     
  20. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,180
    Likes Received:
    196
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Everything here is the truth, minus calling Satan the Antichrist, which he is the Chief of all Antichrist. We may as well get used to the fact that Satan is going to be here in physical form and So is God, and Jesus, and humans will no longer be in spiritual blindness, without excuse. Spiritual reality will be physical and Satan's virtual reality will come to an end.

    The warning though is that the church, faith, grace, salvation by faith, the work of the Holy Spirit is going to come to an end. Salvation will be bold, and the peer pressure of the lost will be far stronger than today.

    He who is holding back (the Holy Spirit) will not be holding back the full effect and wickedness in the hearts and minds of those who do evil.

    Will salvation end? Of course not but it will not be easier as right now. It will get harder.
     
Loading...