Gabriel’s message to Daniel is extremely relevant

[Heart2Soul]

No, the Bible is quite verbal on the Antichrist: “Who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or an object of worship, so that he seats himself in the temple of God, proclaiming himself that he is God.” This fulfills the prophecy concerning Antichrist in Daniel 11:36 and 37. This will take place in the midst of the last week, as prophesied in Daniel 9:27.

And in Revelation 11....it speaks of the temple of God.
Revelation 11 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
¹ And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
² But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

 

[Bobby Jo]

DANIEL 9: SEVENTY WEEKS OF YEARS WERE PREDETERMINED ....

There's more "barnyard" than an actual barnyard can hold.

Maybe some people like to shovel "barnyard",
Bobby Jo

 

[Bobby Jo]

There's more "barnyard" than an actual barnyard can hold.

Maybe some people like to shovel "barnyard",
Bobby Jo

OK, -- to be specific, please allow me to ONCE AGAIN provide SOME of the FAILURES of the Daniel 9 FALSE "JESUS AGENDA":

1. Daniel 9:2 specifies "years".

2. Daniel 9:2 does not use the simple shama to perceive the prophecy of Jeremiah as though reading that book, but rather the Solomon biyn (Ref. 1 Kings 3) to perceive the prophecy in the BOOKS.

3. Per Young, the Daniel 9:25 "going forth of the word" does NOT have the inference of any edict from man, but rather an edict directly from GOD.

4. The Daniel 9:25 seven is one duration with an anointed one "coming" after that duration.

5. The Daniel 9:25-26 sixty-two weeks is a second duration with a second anointed one who is cut off after that duration.

6. The "weeks"/"week" are the inconcise Masculine gender text, which are specifically NOT 490 years.

7. The second anointed one who is cut off is not killed upon the sixty-two, but simply AFTER.

8. The destroyer does not come at the beginning, middle, or upon the end of the seventieth shabuwa, but "shall come" after the seventieth shabuwa.

9. The seven, the sixty-two, the seventieth, and after the seventieth are chronologically connected, with NO ~2,000 year gaps.

10. This prophecy is shut up and sealed until the time of the end, which is approximate to 1948.
​

So anyone (commentators INCLUDED) who tells you the Prophecies of Daniel are ANCIENT, -- are LIARS. Perhaps some are willing to accept their BEST LIES, but I prefer to obey the angel's instructions as given in 12:4 & 9, to discover the TRUTH of GOD's Word in accordance with History.

Bobby Jo

 

[Bobby Jo]

No, the Bible is quite verbal on the Antichrist: “Who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or an object of worship, so that he seats himself in the temple of God, proclaiming himself that he is God.” This fulfills the prophecy concerning Antichrist in Daniel 11:36 and 37. This will take place in the midst of the last week, as prophesied in Daniel 9:27.

Hi Stan,

Actually, 11:36 is not a prophecy for the a/c. The correct citation is 11:45.

Secondly, Chapter 9 has NOTHING to do with Jesus or the the a/c, except that the a/c "shall come" after the seventieth week -- which is the ONLY "week of years" in these verses. All the other "weeks" are under the 9:2 "years". -- It's because Daniel used the UNUSUAL inconcise Masculine gender text versus the concise Feminine gender text, per Young, Keil, & Kliefoth.


Have you considered that the commentators disobeyed the angel's instructions in 12:4 & 9, and have lied to us?
Bobby Jo

 

[Randy Kluth]

DANIEL 9: SEVENTY WEEKS OF YEARS WERE PREDETERMINED
21 Yea, whiles I [Daniel] was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.
22 And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.
23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

We generally hear about Daniel’s prophecy of Seventy Weeks, but in fact it was the angel Gabriel who gave this revelation to Daniel as instructed by God, since only God knows the end from the beginning. So what do we learn from this prophecy that is relevant for today as well as for the future of this earth?

1. There will universal and perfect peace and eternal righteousness on earth after Christ establishes the Kingdom of God on earth.
“Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.”

In Hebrew it is “seventy sevens” (shabua = heptads) or weeks of years that are predicted. That means 490 years, but since there have been over 2,600 years since this prophecy was given, it should be clear that what is stated above will be in the future, and that there will be a wide time gap between the 69th and the 70th week of Daniel. Therefore anyone who claims that this prophecy has been already fulfilled is lying.

2. Seventy weeks began with the first year of the reign of Cyrus king of Persia and will end after the Second Coming of Christ
“Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem...”

It was Cyrus the Great who gave this commandment to restore and build Jerusalem: “Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of the LORD spoken by the mouth of Jeremiah might be accomplished, the LORD stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and put it also in writing, saying, Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, All the kingdoms of the earth hath the LORD God of heaven given me; and he hath charged me to build him an house in Jerusalem, which is in Judah. Who is there among you of all his people? The LORD his God be with him, and let him go up”. (2 Chron 36:22,23, cf. Ezra 1:1-4)

It has generally been postulated (according to the chronology of Ptolemy) that the first year of Cyrus was 536 BC. But since this prophecy of Daniel puts 483 years between this proclamation and the crucifixion of Christ in 30 AD, that date is incorrect. Therefore the proclamation of Cyrus could not have gone out earlier than 453 BC. This is based on this statement: ...the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks... And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself.

Seven weeks = 7 x 7 years = 49 years
Three score weeks = 3 x 20 x 7 years = 420 years
Two weeks = 2 x 7 years = 14 years
49 + 420 + 14 = 483 years
490 - 483 = 7 years

This still leaves one week or 7 years which have been unfulfilled since the crucifixion of Christ.

3. The Antichrist is “the prince that shall come” and his coming is in the future to bring desolations upon the earth
“...and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.”

The key to understanding this prediction is “desolations”, meaning that the earth is made desolate through divine judgments. And the connecting link to these desolations is the Abomination of Desolation: And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.(Dan 11:31 cf Mt 24:15; Rev 13)

The Antichrist will set up an animated idol within the future temple at Jerusalem and demand that the whole world worship this image, just as Nebuchadnezzar made an image and demanded that all his subjects worship that image. This image and this worship will be extremely abhorrent to God (hence called an “abomination”). Therefore God will send judgments upon the earth to make it desolate, as we see when the 7th seal is opened and the seven angels sound their seven trumpets (Revelation 8 & 9).

4. The Antichrist will make a false covenant of peace with Israel, then desecrate the future temple at Jerusalem
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.”

The Antichrist is called “the prince of the covenant” (Dan 11:22), but the covenant to give peace to Israel and allow the temple sacrifices will be totally false, and after 3 ½ years, that covenant will end, sacrifices will cease, and the Abomination of Desolation shall be set up. This will trigger the desolations which will come upon the earth.

We know from other Scriptures that the Antichrist will be utterly destroyed by the Lord Jesus Christ, and only after that will the Christ’s Kingdom on earth be established in order to fulfil this prophecy.

As I understand it, this "gap theory" between the 69 weeks and the 70th week had its origins in the precursors of the Pretribulationists, namely in the Catholic Francisco Ribera. It is not a position dignified with historical positions, including the Church Fathers.

In my view, it only makes sense to take the 70 Week period as a sequential set, without interruption. Otherwise it would not have been given as a set.

The historic view seems to be that after 69 Weeks Messiah would be cut off in the midst of the 70th Week. Then Jerusalem and the temple would fall to the Romans. Jesus' Olivet Discourse is based on this prophecy.

 

[Enoch111]

It is not a position dignified with historical positions, including the Church Fathers.

This is laughable. "Not to be dignified".

The fact of the matter is that the prophecy of the Seventy Weeks of Daniel has not been fulfilled -- AND COULD NOT BE FULFILLED -- until all its terms and conditions have been met. And one of those terms is the establish of "everlasting righteousness" on the earth.

Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.(Dan 9:24)

EVERLASTING RIGHTEOUSNESS AND PEACE ON EARTH

Everlasting (or eternal) righteousness (and peace) will only be established on earth AFTER the Second Coming of Christ. And that has not happened as yet. But Daniel also had that prophecy in chapter 7, and it is yet to be fulfilled:

I [Daniel] saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of Man [Christ] came with the clouds of heaven [all the saints and angels], and came to the Ancient of Days [God the Father], and they brought Him [Christ] near before Him [the Father]. And there was given Him [Christ] dominion, and glory, and a Kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve Him [Christ]: His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and His Kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon His Kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this. (Isa 9:7)

ISAIAH 11: CHRIST'S GLORIOUS KINGDOM ON EARTH
4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

In view of all this, a Gap between Daniel's 69th and 70th weeks is a divine necessity. And that is called the Church Age, "until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in". Therefore this is NOT an invention of Dispensationalists, but a divine necessity for the Age of Grace before the Second Coming of Christ.

 

[Randy Kluth]

This is laughable. "Not to be dignified".

The fact of the matter is that the prophecy of the Seventy Weeks of Daniel has not been fulfilled -- AND COULD NOT BE FULFILLED -- until all its terms and conditions have been met. And one of those terms is the establish of "everlasting righteousness" on the earth.

Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.(Dan 9:24)

EVERLASTING RIGHTEOUSNESS AND PEACE ON EARTH

Everlasting (or eternal) righteousness (and peace) will only be established on earth AFTER the Second Coming of Christ. And that has not happened as yet. But Daniel also had that prophecy in chapter 7, and it is yet to be fulfilled:

I [Daniel] saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of Man [Christ] came with the clouds of heaven [all the saints and angels], and came to the Ancient of Days [God the Father], and they brought Him [Christ] near before Him [the Father]. And there was given Him [Christ] dominion, and glory, and a Kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve Him [Christ]: His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and His Kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon His Kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this. (Isa 9:7)

ISAIAH 11: CHRIST'S GLORIOUS KINGDOM ON EARTH
4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

In view of all this, a Gap between Daniel's 69th and 70th weeks is a divine necessity. And that is called the Church Age, "until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in". Therefore this is NOT an invention of Dispensationalists, but a divine necessity for the Age of Grace before the Second Coming of Christ.

A couple of important errors I think you're making are as follows. And I would hope you seriously consider the alternatives.

1) You are conflating 2 separate prophecies that are not directly related. Dan 7 has to do with the endtimes, and Dan 9 has to do with the "cutting off" of the Messiah, and with the judgment of "the city and the sanctuary" which immediately followed. Your assumption that Dan 9 is the same context as Dan 7 begs the argument. The fact that Jesus was cut off, followed by the Jerusalem judgment by the Romans, confirms the context, and is indicated by Jesus who said that in "this generation" all these things will take place.

2) The 6 things that Daniel was told will take place by the end of the 70 Weeks was, in fact, fulfilled. You are just interpreting those 6 things wrong, in my judgment.

1) to finish the transgression,
2) and to make an end of sins,
3) and to make reconciliation for iniquity,
4) and to bring in everlasting righteousness,
5) and to seal up the vision and prophecy,
6) and to anoint the most Holy.

Jesus "finished transgression" and "made an end of sins" among the Jewish people in Israel by judging them, by letting them be put to death and by removing them in deportations.
Jesus made reconciliation for iniquity by dying on the cross as an atoning sacrifice. And he brought in "everlasting righteousness" by giving his spiritual righteousness, which is eternal, to his people, after the cross.
Jesus fulfilled all the prophecy that called for the redemption of Israel by the death of Messiah. And Jesus anointed the most holy by verifying the temple worship as fulfilled in his own redemptive work.

 

[Timtofly]

It is funny that most through the ages understood the 70th week was still in the future. Now that it is the 70th week, too many people want it to happen 2000 years ago. Sorry you cannot send history back in time. You can only live it.

 

[Randy Kluth]

It is funny that most through the ages understood the 70th week was still in the future. Now that it is the 70th week, too many people want it to happen 2000 years ago. Sorry you cannot send history back in time. You can only live it.

Most through the ages? Where do you get that info from? My understanding is that the idea came from Catholic Francisco Ribera in the 16th century. But I'm willing to learn or be corrected!

 

[Timtofly]

Most through the ages? Where do you get that info from? My understanding is that the idea came from Catholic Francisco Ribera in the 16th century. But I'm willing to learn or be corrected!

The fact that Francisco Ribera pointed it out, does not mean it just magically happened in the 16th century. The Truth has been in the Bible since Daniel wrote it. That Jesus mentioned it was left out, but does not mean the disciples did not understand. Satan was allowed to decieve us and it really did not matter who pointed it out and when. We are currently living in these last 7 years, and the elect still refuse to accept it. Perhaps some will realize, and look forward with open eyes. Or some will be caught off guard and totally embarrassed when it happens. Only by the Holy Spirit and reading the book of Revelation, which is the road map of these years, will one even know the truth. If one thinks they already have it clear in their mind what Revelation says and still think it is not happening, they need to ask the Holy Spirit to show them where they are wrong.

 

[Jay Ross]

The fact that Francisco Ribera pointed it out, does not mean it just magically happened in the 16th century. The Truth has been in the Bible since Daniel wrote it. That Jesus mentioned it was left out, but does not mean the disciples did not understand. Satan was allowed to decieve us and it really did not matter who pointed it out and when. We are currently living in these last 7 years, and the elect still refuse to accept it. Perhaps some will realize, and look forward with open eyes. Or some will be caught off guard and totally embarrassed when it happens. Only by the Holy Spirit and reading the book of Revelation, which is the road map of these years, will one even know the truth. If one thinks they already have it clear in their mind what Revelation says and still think it is not happening, they need to ask the Holy Spirit to show them where they are wrong.

Do you own a mirror? It seems that you need to talk to the reflexion you observe in it.

 

[Randy Kluth]

The fact that Francisco Ribera pointed it out, does not mean it just magically happened in the 16th century. The Truth has been in the Bible since Daniel wrote it. That Jesus mentioned it was left out, but does not mean the disciples did not understand. Satan was allowed to decieve us and it really did not matter who pointed it out and when. We are currently living in these last 7 years, and the elect still refuse to accept it. Perhaps some will realize, and look forward with open eyes. Or some will be caught off guard and totally embarrassed when it happens. Only by the Holy Spirit and reading the book of Revelation, which is the road map of these years, will one even know the truth. If one thinks they already have it clear in their mind what Revelation says and still think it is not happening, they need to ask the Holy Spirit to show them where they are wrong.

I don't think you're right, but I don't know you that well yet. I've been posting for years on other sites. My only intention here was to find out if you were correct that the 70th Week, as a *future prophecy,* was taught all through history. Apparently you're not going to stand by that claim? Alright, carry on....

 

[Enoch111]

...the idea came from Catholic Francisco Ribera in the 16th century. But I'm willing to learn or be corrected!

No you are not willing to learn or be corrected! As is true for all those who refuse to allow the Bible to show them the truth.

I showed you from Scripture why the Gap between the 69th and 70th week of Daniel is a divine necessity. And you continue to post this garbage about Francisco Ribera. And then add "Catholic" for good measure, as though Catholics are never able to grasp Bible truth.

The fact of the matter is that the Protestant Reformers continued to teach the false doctrines of the Catholic Church regarding Bible prophecy. But Ribera actually studied the Bible and exposed the falsity of your beliefs. Here is what he proposed, which is totally scriptural:

"Then, he proposed,the antichrist, a single individual, would:

• Persecute and blaspheme the saints of God.
• Rebuild the temple in Jerusalem.
• Abolish the Christian religion.
• Deny Jesus Christ.
• Be received by the Jews.
• Pretend to be God.
• Kill the two witnesses of God.
• Conquer the world."

So what you should now do is post a public apology to Ribera (and myself) since he was right on the money.

 

[quietthinker]

So what you should now do is post a public apology to Ribera

I'm shocked at the arrogance of this statement and the one below

 

[quietthinker]

No you are not willing to learn or be corrected! As is true for all those who refuse to allow the Bible to show them the truth.

 

[Enoch111]

I'm shocked at the arrogance of this statement and the one below

Why do you label the truth as *arrogance*? That would imply that you love lies more than the truth. The arrogance has been on the part of those who have needlessly attacked Francisco Ribera for telling the truth.

 

[quietthinker]

Why do you label the truth as *arrogance*? That would imply that you love lies more than the truth. The arrogance has been on the part of those who have needlessly attacked Francisco Ribera for telling the truth.

It's like this Enoch...firstly you tell Randy Kluth what he should be doing. That's a realm you have no say in unless of course you want to control his responses.

Re the second statement....Randy Kluth specifically said he was willing to learn or be corrected. Thats pretty straight forward yet you tell him
that he is not willing to learn or be corrected. Do you know Randy Kluth's reality better than he does? Telling him what his reality is is none other than an attempt to exercise control over his own choices of expression.

These attempts amount to none other than arrogance which you mistakenly have called truth.

Thirdly....calling your attempt to control, 'truth', in your reply to me further reinforces the arrogance.

I hope you can accept this in the spirit it is given.

 

[Timtofly]

I don't think you're right, but I don't know you that well yet. I've been posting for years on other sites. My only intention here was to find out if you were correct that the 70th Week, as a *future prophecy,* was taught all through history. Apparently you're not going to stand by that claim? Alright, carry on....

I would assume that the task of figuring out every incident in history it was taught and believed, and by whom would be almost impossible. Since the NT did not state with a full definitive statement that the 70th week was fulfilled, that it still being future, even today, means it has not been settled by the church. I doubt it is wrong to figure out who all taught and accepted that fact.

 

[Randy Kluth]

I would assume that the task of figuring out every incident in history it was taught and believed, and by whom would be almost impossible. Since the NT did not state with a full definitive statement that the 70th week was fulfilled, that it still being future, even today, means it has not been settled by the church. I doubt it is wrong to figure out who all taught and accepted that fact.

As I said, the evidence I have for the future interpretation of Daniel's 70th Week is that Ribera taught it. But I have little on it--2nd hand info. If you discover more, I'd be grateful if you share it with me. Until then, the argument that "all through history" a future interpretation existed does not hold water.

This is significant because if the 70 Weeks was normally interpreted in a sequential way, as is reasonable, then it is not likely that a future 70th week is either true or an acceptable way of interpreting that prophecy.

 

[Timtofly]

As I said, the evidence I have for the future interpretation of Daniel's 70th Week is that Ribera taught it. But I have little on it--2nd hand info. If you discover more, I'd be grateful if you share it with me. Until then, the argument that "all through history" a future interpretation existed does not hold water.

This is significant because if the 70 Weeks was normally interpreted in a sequential way, as is reasonable, then it is not likely that a future 70th week is either true or an acceptable way of interpreting that prophecy.

The only way I can see it is the 69th week was the first Triumphant Week where in the middle Christ died on the Cross. The 70th week is the Second Coming, the next Triumphant Week. This has not happened yet, because Satan interrupts the week, and given a 3.5 year period of terror on earth. Neither have happened yet. So, by logic alone, nothing has happened to the degree that the 70th week has been completed. The 70th week is still in the future and has been since Jesus Christ died and rose from the dead. So if the weeks happened back to back, the last 1990 years would not exist.