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Featured Gabriel’s message to Daniel is extremely relevant

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by Enoch111, Apr 16, 2020.

  1. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

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    RE-POST: -- still waiting for a SOLUTION, but I guess all the purported EXPERTS may be busy in the latrine:


    To All,
    People make blanket assertions on some specifics, but can't explain ANYTHING ELSE in the context of the passages. For example, I haven't found a SINGLE INDIVIDUAL who can explain why Rev. 12 says SEVEN DIADEMS, but Rev. 13 says TEN DIADEMS.

    These ignoramuses purport all kinds of assertions when they can't even solve a BASIC PREMISE.

    Whew,
    Bobby Jo
     
  2. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    The coming Antichrist actually will be... Satan himself, de facto in person walking upon this earth. Angels don't need a flesh body to manifest here on earth in our dimension. Even Jesus did before He born through woman's womb (Gen.18).

    This is why the great tribulation will be a time on earth that has never been before, nor will ever be again. It's because Satan and his host of angels are coming to OUR dimension. They will be his 'ministers of righteousness' that Apostle Paul warned us about (2 Cor.11).

    Rev.13:11 tells us the 2nd beast will appear with two horns LIKE a lamb (Jesus), but will speak as a dragon (another title for Satan). That's a strong clue by our Lord Jesus to those paying attention that it will actually be Satan, in person. Rev.12:7-9 shows when the war in Heaven happens, there will be no more place in Heaven found for him. That means Satan's abode in the heavenly dimension will end and he will literally be cast down to earth in OUR dimension, with his angels.

    God's Word doesn't always demand that you understand everything perfectly all the time, but He does demand that we believe what is written. When we continue to study, He then opens up our understanding, even with things in His Word that don't seem possible.
     
  3. Randy Kluth

    Randy Kluth Well-Known Member

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    This is dishonest and untrue. I gave you my take on the 7 crowns and on the 10 crowns. Since you do nothing but attack, why are you here on a Christian discussion forum?

    The answer, whether it is correct or not, lies in the putting down of 3 kings in Dan 7.24. This reduces the number of kings from 10 to 7. In Rev 12 we see 7 kings. In Rev 13 we see 10 kings. Both Rev 12 and Rev 13 represent the same period of time, but there is this difference in focus.

    The Beast is initially introduced, in ch. 13, as he comes to dominate all 10 kings. It is only after this that the number of kings is reduced to 7.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2020
  4. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

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    Finally some truth from you. All else from you on this subject is IGNORANCE:

    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt.


    Or MORE STRINGENT:

    James 3:1 Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, for you know that we who teach shall be judged with greater strictness.


    Take your pick.
    Bobby Jo
     
  5. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    I've pointed out before the difference between the Rev.12:3-4 seven crowns compared to the ten crowns of Rev.13:1, but no one has ever responded to it, showing I either scared them with something they thought was off-the-wall, or they just didn't have a clue, mostly of the latter I believe.

    The Rev.12:3-4 "seven crowns" of the beast is hard-linked to the time when the red dragon drew a third of the stars (angels) to earth. That was about the time of Satan's original rebellion of old against God. It was the time when the devil sinned from the beginning, like Apostle John said. So that CANNOT be about the Antichrist "little horn" at the end of this world subduing 3 of the 10 kings per the Book of Daniel.

    The obvious reason why our Lord Jesus gave us this contrast between those two examples was to point to something else.
     
  6. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

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    To All,

    I'm still waiting for the explanation where there's SEVEN DIADEMS, but there's TEN DIADEMS. They BOTH can't be correct unless something has changed. But handwavium, unobtainium, eludium, and wishalloy are materials, not answers.

    Bobby Jo
     
  7. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    You have already been shown. You simply choose to not accept what has been offered to you.

    The 'timing' of the Revelation 12:3-4 verses about the "red dragon" is unmistakable. It is linked with the time when the dragon drew a third of the stars (angels) to earth.
     
  8. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

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    ...lies, deceptions, and distractions.

    So I guess each of the self professed "experts" are full of -- themselves, (it's a euphemism). But if anyone NEW should arrive to this Topic, I'd LOVE to hear an explanation for why Rev. 12 says SEVEN Diadems, but Rev. 13 says TEN Diadems.


    Bobby Jo
     
  9. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    The 'timing' of the Revelation 12:3-4 verses about the "red dragon" is unmistakable. It is linked with the time when the dragon drew a third of the stars (angels) to earth.
     
  10. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

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    Still waiting:

    So I guess each of the self professed "experts" are full of -- themselves, (it's a euphemism). But if anyone NEW should arrive to this Topic, I'd LOVE to hear an explanation for why Rev. 12 says SEVEN Diadems, but Rev. 13 says TEN Diadems.

    Bobby Jo
     
  11. Randy Kluth

    Randy Kluth Well-Known Member

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    You throw out insults like a clown throws out candy at a parade. However...

    I'm very interested in this subject, and I'd just like to know why you don't consider my solution adequate or reasonable? I've said that each chapter, 12 and 13, deals with different times in the process of going from 10 kings in the Empire to 7 kings under Antichrist. Why doesn't that even remotely resemble a legitimate response to you?

    The arrangement of chapters in the book of Revelation is not always chronological, and so the order from 7 to 10 in chpts. 12 to 13 are backwards in time, from my pov. The process begins with 10 kings, and then is reduced, by 3, to 7 kings.

    Rev 12 is a throwback in time to the time of Christ, who I believe is the Man-child. And then it looks forward to the endtimes, to the time when Antichrist reigns for 3.5 years. That's when he has put down 3 kings and reigns over 7 kings and 10 states (3 states have no kings).

    Rev 13 is running through the history of Antichrist for 3.5 years, but begins at the point *before* he actually puts down 3 kings--when there are still 10 kings.

    Please don't discount my view simply because you have your own interpretation, which you believe is "superior." I'm just curious why you don't consider my answer as a reasonable one? Or, don't you understand my answer at all?
     
  12. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    Bobby Jo you accuse others of the very sin that you also commit, Doing violence to the scriptures.

    I have asked you to explain previously in another thread who or what are the "four winds of heaven" are as described in Daniel 7:2? As of yet you have not bothered to answer my question.

    You have accused many that they only see four beasts in Daniel 7:1-12, but I actually see five beasts in this passage and they all go immediately into the Abyss/Bottomless pit when they are kicked out of heaven down to the earth, which incidentally is a near future event.

    You then raise the question about the differences between Rev 12 and 13 about how many horns are on the head of the beast and you provide your answer from the rational of past commentators who saw very poorly looking forwards to what we are able to see with 20/20 hind vision, and as such see a very different picture as to what those past commentators were able to envisaged from 400 plus years ago.

    John in Revelation in chapter 12 was seeing a different time period from what he saw in chapter 13. The simple solution is often the solution that is overlooked because it seems to obvious an answer and therefore could not possibly be right.

    Bobby Jo you are the one doing violence to the scriptures with your demands without considering what Jeremiah had to say concerning the Statue prophecy of Daniel 2, around 19 years after Daniel had provided his answer, from God, to King Neb. Jeremiah extended the time period for the Statue to this present time by indicating that there would a gap in the prophecy of around 2,000 years, which has been confirmed by history, and he indicates who the last two segments of the statue would be, as given to him prophetically by God. Sadly, your listing of who the segments represent is wrong for the fourth and fifth segment, based on history, which has now been fulfilled concerning who the segments are. John also provided a clue in Rev 16:17-21 as to who the fourth segment would be, and it is described as being like iron in the statue prophecy.

    Your theories have been debunked for many years and yet you keep trotting out this "theory" as if it is the only correct theory to hold, even though many who once held to this theory have moved away from it.

    Your badgering of people is nothing more than bullying them into submission. Does God rely need your or my help in bring correction.

    I know that I can lead a stubborn horse to water but I cannot force that horse to drink the water. Many others have probably felt the same way and when their thoughts could not break through your barriers, they walked away from the conversation and withdrew from interacting with you.

    You can heed these words or chose not to. The choice is up to you.

    Have a great day now.
     
  13. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

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    I have no problem with any aspect of Dan. 7. But to get to Dan. 7, you must first transcend Dan. 2, and you REFUSE to address Dan. 2. So the impasse lies AT YOUR FEET.

    And if you wish to address any other aspect of Prophetic Scripture I'd be MORE THAN CAPABLE of addressing most aspects of the Psalms; portions of Ezekiel; ALL of Daniel; and portions of Revelation. So why don't we start at the simple and work toward the complex, because if you can't grasp the simple, you'll be hard pressed for the complex.

    And I note in all your blathering, -- you referenced the "horns" in Rev. 12 & 13, but apparently DELIBERATELY SIDE STEPPED the "SEVEN DIADEMS" versus "TEN DIADEMS" which is the subject of the discussion. But I guess dishonesty has no bounds.


    ... And you accuse others ...
    Bobby Jo
     
  14. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    Bobby Jo, do you need new glasses in reading my posts or do you have a comprehension problem.

    I will state the obvious to you. The Roman Empire and the revived Roman Empire have no part in the Daniel 2 statue prophecy, which was the claim of the reformation fathers and the proposition that you support.

    I have previously stated that the 4th and 5th segments of the Statue prophecy is Iraq and the Coalition of the Willing, which you ignore because of the violence that you do to both the scriptures and recorded history.

    I have previously also shown that Child's (if my memory serves me well), theory, that the numbers associated with the Psalms when added to year 1900 AD gives the year in which the respective Psalms indicates what will happen during that year.

    Now, with respect to timeframe for Rev 12 I would suggest that that there is a 1,000 year gap that needs to be inserted into verse 12 because when Satan is cast down to the earth, he is immediately imprisoned in the locked Bottomless Pit, before he is release for the little while period where he goes around in great anger initially after the Israelites and then after the Christian saints.

    Now, I am happy to discuss this further with you, but unless you provide substance to your claims, they are nothing more that flatulent verbal diarrhoea which no one every wants to deal with or clean up.

    But I guess your sickness prevents you from being honest with your paddle.
     
  15. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

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    You assert that I "SUPPORT", when in fact I REFUTE. And I gladly assert that the FIFTH "divided kingdom" consists of today's THREE SUPERPOWERS and the United Nations, for which the TEN TOES represent the TEN Permanent Membership of the Security Council.

    So where we KNOW that the Dan. 2 FIVE the Dan. 7 FOUR we MUST conclude that the Dan. 7 FOUR represent the FIFTH DIVIDED KINGDOM. So exactly, pray tell, who are the Lion/Eagle; Bear; Leopard (actually a TIGER); and the Dreadful with associated attributes (status/ribs/heads-wings) in your premise? -- Furthermore, I'd like to also hear who the TEN TOES represent in your scenario.

    So have you read Psalm 44 and discovered the Holocaust; or Psalm 48 and discovered the International Recognition of the State of Israel; or Psalm 91 and discovered Desert Storm?!? Or are you too lazy/stupid to actually search the Scriptures?!?

    In the Garden, satan deceived Eve by introducing a concept (touch) which wasn't part of the conversation; and YOU my dear friend have TWICE attempted to introduce concepts (horn, and now gap) which are NOT PART OF THE CONVERSATION. -- So you and satan use the same technique?!? -- That's a surprise ...

    For the umpteenth time:
    Why does Rev. 12 say SEVEN DIADEMS; and Rev. 13 say TEN DIADEMS?!?

    You're the individual who's 0 for 4 as cited above, -- not me.


    Bobby Jo :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2020
  16. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    Bobby Jo, let us start to deal with you assumption.

    You are clearly stating that you believe that the beasts are not the manifestations of wicked evil and fallen heavenly hosts which are able to have influence over people such that they manifest the characteristics of the respective beasts. What you have described as the beasts are the manifestations of the beasts that rise up out of the people of the sea.

    Your abuse of the scriptures can be seen in this statement where you only observe four beasts in Daniel 7 instead of five.

    and ignore the following information: -
    whose description matches the Little Horn that appears at the time of the revelation of the fourth and terrible beast of Daniel 7 1-12, but you again do not recognise this beast because it does not visibly manifest itself in the great sea. This beast has influence over the initially described four beasts in Daniel 7:1-12

    Where your premise that Daniel 2 and Daniel 7 can be linked by claiming that they are describing the same entity types, i.e. manifested entities rising up out of the sea of the people on the earth, but you fail to discern that the Kings that have and still have influence over the land of the Chaldeans are people groups/kingdoms/nations/empires, can actually be manifesting the spiritual entity beasts as described in Daniel 7.

    In other words, what is described in both chapters are very different entities, with Daniel 2 describing earthly kingdoms while Daniel 7 is describing heavenly spirits, i.e. angels, that have fallen from God's grace that can still exercise spiritual influence over the peoples of the earth.

    The reality is that you are a conspiracy theorist with God's scriptures who cannot see God's truth at all within the Scriptures that He has assembled for us to read.

    The only means of imposing your "conspiracy theories" on others is to use the "spiritual" tools of a bully, badgering and ridiculing members on this forum who are presenting what they believe and by claiming that the scriptures are a riddle that needs to be solved your way.

    Now when you have something scripturally based to report, then I am not interested in your folly and conspiracy theories.
     
  17. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    Psalm 44: - Redemption Remembered in Present Dishonor
    To the Chief Musician. A Contemplation of the sons of Korah.

    44:1 We have heard with our ears, O God,
    Our fathers have told us,
    The deeds You did in their days,
    In days of old: ​
    2 You drove out the nations with Your hand,
    But them You planted;
    You afflicted the peoples, and cast them out. ​
    3 For they did not gain possession of the land by their own sword,
    Nor did their own arm save them;
    But it was Your right hand, Your arm, and the light of Your countenance,
    Because You favored them. ​

    4 You are my King, O God;
    Command victories for Jacob. ​
    5 Through You we will push down our enemies;
    Through Your name we will trample those who rise up against us. ​
    6 For I will not trust in my bow,
    Nor shall my sword save me. ​
    7 But You have saved us from our enemies,
    And have put to shame those who hated us. ​
    8 In God we boast all day long,
    And praise Your name forever.
    Selah ​

    9 But You have cast us off and put us to shame,
    And You do not go out with our armies. ​
    10 You make us turn back from the enemy,
    And those who hate us have taken spoil for themselves. ​
    11 You have given us up like sheep intended for food,
    And have scattered us among the nations. ​
    12 You sell Your people for next to nothing,
    And are not enriched by selling them. ​

    13 You make us a reproach to our neighbors,
    A scorn and a derision to those all around us. ​
    14 You make us a byword among the nations,
    A shaking of the head among the peoples. ​
    15 My dishonor is continually before me,
    And the shame of my face has covered me, ​
    16 Because of the voice of him who reproaches and reviles,
    Because of the enemy and the avenger. ​

    17 All this has come upon us;
    But we have not forgotten You,
    Nor have we dealt falsely with Your covenant. ​
    18 Our heart has not turned back,
    Nor have our steps departed from Your way; ​
    19 But You have severely broken us in the place of jackals,
    And covered us with the shadow of death. ​

    20 If we had forgotten the name of our God,
    Or stretched out our hands to a foreign god, ​
    21 Would not God search this out?
    For He knows the secrets of the heart. ​
    22 Yet for Your sake we are killed all day long;
    We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. ​

    23 Awake! Why do You sleep, O Lord?
    Arise! Do not cast us off forever. ​
    24 Why do You hide Your face,
    And forget our affliction and our oppression? ​
    25 For our soul is bowed down to the dust;
    Our body clings to the ground. ​
    26 Arise for our help,
    And redeem us for Your mercies' sake. ​

    Where in this Psalm is the Holocaust mentioned? Was the Holocaust only limited to 1944 as you are suggesting? Have they not been burned and imprisoned over the past 2,000 or so years?
     
  18. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    Psalm 48: - The Glory of God in Zion
    A Song. A Psalm of the sons of Korah.

    48:1 Great is the Lord, and greatly to be praised
    In the city of our God,
    In His holy mountain. ​
    2 Beautiful in elevation,
    The joy of the whole earth,
    Is Mount Zion on the sides of the north,
    The city of the great King. ​
    3 God is in her palaces;
    He is known as her refuge. ​

    4 For behold, the kings assembled,
    They passed by together. ​
    5 They saw it, and so they marveled;
    They were troubled, they hastened away. ​
    6 Fear took hold of them there,
    And pain, as of a woman in birth pangs, ​
    7 As when You break the ships of Tarshish
    With an east wind. ​

    8 As we have heard,
    So we have seen
    In the city of the Lord of hosts,
    In the city of our God:
    God will establish it forever.​
    Selah ​

    9 We have thought, O God, on Your lovingkindness,
    In the midst of Your temple. ​
    10 According to Your name, O God,
    So is Your praise to the ends of the earth;
    Your right hand is full of righteousness. ​
    11 Let Mount Zion rejoice,
    Let the daughters of Judah be glad,
    Because of Your judgments. ​

    12 Walk about Zion,
    And go all around her.
    Count her towers; ​
    13 Mark well her bulwarks;
    Consider her palaces;
    That you may tell it to the generation following. ​
    14 For this is God,
    Our God forever and ever;
    He will be our guide
    Even to death.

    Again where in this Psalm does it mention the return of Israel to the Land of Canaan or back to Jerusalem?

    Has Israel been redeemed yet? When I read this Psalm, it could be associated with many scripturally described events. From Biblical prophecy concerning the return of Abraham's descendants to the Land of Canaan, it makes no mention of God being actively involved in the descendants' return to the land. In the prophecy, it only mentions that the iniquities against God by the inhabitants of the land has not reached its fullness yet.

    Another fail.

    Where is the third strike?
     
  19. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

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    If you can't explain the literal prophecies, then spiritualize them with absolutely NO assignments of attributes/fulfillments.

    IT'S MAGICAL! Trust me! -- Yeah NOT.
    Bobby Jo
     
  20. Bobby Jo

    Bobby Jo Well-Known Member

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    Israel did not become a Nation/State in 24 hours. It took some 24 YEARS from the "going forth of the word" until the birth of that nation.

    City; Mountain; Elevation; Earth, Mount Zion; North; City; Palaces; Refuge. Kings; Marveled; Troubled; Fear; Pain; Birth Pangs; Ships of Tarshish; East Wind; City of the Lord; City of our God; Temple; Ends of the earth; Righteousness; Mount Zion; Judah; Judgments; Walk about Zion; Count her Towers; Mark well her Bulwarks; Consider her Palaces; Tell the generation following.

    Nothing to see that hasn't occurred in other Psalms and throughout world history. Nope, the blind don't see a thing.

    Where's your explanation for the SEVEN Diadems versus the TEN Diadems?!?


    OK, you were on IGNORE because you have a different agenda than Scripture and Truth. So I'm going to IGNORE you again in the hopes that your dishonesty/duplicity and disregard for GOD's Word will be dealt with by the ONE who can change you. And I wouldn't want to be you ...
    Bobby Jo
     
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