Galatians 5

[justbyfaith]

Number one, you are not open, oh my. Intelligent you are, but must have a three inch skull. Here is the thing. When it comes to scriptures, wisdom given is unappreciated and often trample under foot. Wisdom found is a treasure for the rest of your life. There has to be a answer to why so many people have good, god inspired scriptures that do not make a singular point.

I do know what it is that I have already discovered in the holy scriptures; and if someone presents an idea that is contrary to the concepts that I have found, of course they will have to show how their idea coincides with the scriptures that I am thinking of.

If you consider me to be narrow-minded because of that...well, that is fine; Jesus said that the way to life is narrow and that there are few who actually find it.

But I want to be clear about something...if anyone presents to me an idea that can be substantiated by scripture, then I am open to it...of course I will be a Berean concerning it and will search the scriptures as to whether what is being presented is so (Acts 17:10-11).

I am not going to be hoodwinked by any lies or false doctrines crossing the table...but neither is my mind closed to any new information. I will examine and judge it according to what the scripture teaches.

 

[Grailhunter]

I do know what it is that I have already discovered in the holy scriptures; and if someone presents an idea that is contrary to the concepts that I have found, of course they will have to show how their idea coincides with the scriptures that I am thinking of.

If you consider me to be narrow-minded because of that...well, that is fine; Jesus said that the way to life is narrow and there are few who find it.

But I want to be clear about something...if anyone presents to me an idea that can be substantiated by scripture, then I am open to it...of course I will be a Berean concerning it and will search the scriptures as to whether what is being presented is so (Acts 17:10-11).

I am not going to be hoodwinked by any lies or false doctrines crossing the table...but neither is my mind closed to any new information. I will examine and judge it according to what the scripture teaches.

That is the thing, not going to hoodwink you, I am going say find it. You may be confident in what you believe and have good scriptures to support it and they are confident in what they believe and have good scriptures to support it. But the real wisdom is what answers both explanations. Again, not insult you, if I did not think you all could figure it out, I would not be wasting my time pushing these buttons. Any answer other than that means you guys keep throwing scriptures at each other without resolving the issue at hand.

 

[justbyfaith]

That is the thing, not going to hoodwink you, I am going say find it. You may be confident in what you believe and have good scriptures to support it and they are confident in what they believe and have good scriptures to support it. But the real wisdom is what answers both explanations. Again, not insult you, if I did not think you all could figure it out, I would not be wasting my time pushing these buttons. Any answer other than that means you guys keep throwing scriptures at each other without resolving the issue at hand.

I don't see any problem between his scriptures and mine.

And I do not see that there is anything that is a riddle to me here that I have not figured out.

If you want to present a riddle to me based on the scriptures at hand, then lay it on me.

As it is, I don't find that I am confused by anything that is being presented here; neither do I find that there is anything in the most recent posts that I am failing to understand.

 

[Grailhunter]

I don't see any problem between his scriptures and mine.

And I do not see that there is anything that is a riddle to me here that I have not figured out.

If you want to present a riddle to me based on the scriptures at hand, then lay it on me.

As it is, I don't find that I am confused by anything that is being presented here; neither do I find that there is anything in the most recent posts that I am failing to understand.

Ok then.

 

[atpollard]

God leading people by the Spirit to man choosing to do right under his own power....lol

DAVE chose to quote Galatians 5:18. I just called him on his imaginative reading of what Paul actually said. Why don’t YOU quote Galatians 5:18 and provide an exegesis of what the text SAYS and what it MEANS, rather than offering to me your empty, non-scriptural rhetoric born of your personal opinions.

Who does the leading and who is led in Galatians 5:18? Don’t TELL me that I am wrong, show me.

I presented the verse and underlined the key words that support my position.

 

[atpollard]

IF... we listen to Him and do what He shows us

If we do not listen to the Holy Spirit and we do not do what He shows us and we do not follow Christ ... then we are not “of His sheep”. Who cares if the damned do not obey Jesus? Isn’t that what makes them damned in the first place? (John 3:18)

That is not a warning for His sheep, that is a warning that the world needs to hear so they will be drawn to the Gospel.

“No judgement for those who believe” means just what it says, does it not?
Why are you adding the yoke of the law back to those that have been freed from the curse of the law?

 

[Grailhunter]

DAVE chose to quote Galatians 5:18. I just called him on his imaginative reading of what Paul actually said. Why don’t YOU quote Galatians 5:18 and provide an exegesis of what the text SAYS and what it MEANS, rather than offering to me your empty, non-scriptural rhetoric born of your personal opinions.

Who does the leading and who is led in Galatians 5:18? Don’t TELL me that I am wrong, show me.

I presented the verse and underlined the key words that support my position.

One, insults are not going to resolve this.
Two, the scripture says what it says.
Three, who will judge and by what measure who is led by the Spirit?
Four, I do not do the battling scripture things with accompanying insults because by my assessment it is disrespectful of the scriptures.

 

[atpollard]

I already showed how YOU reversed what Apostle Paul said in Galatians 5 of the meaning of walking in The Spirit. So you really ought to walk carefully before that mouth continues to overload your spirit with more false accusations.

I noticed that you moved the goal posts. That is not the sign of an honest conversation.

You quoted, and I called you on Galatians 5:18 ...

[Gal 5:18 NASB] 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.

YOU claimed that this verse was about men CHOOSING to obey the Spirit, but that is NOT what the verse says.

The verse does say “IF” (which you based your claim upon) but it does not say “if you choose” anything at all. It says “if you are led by the Spirit”. YOU are being LED. The Holy Spirit of God is doing the LEADING. You are FOLLOWING the LEADING of the Holy Spirit. In this particular verse, Paul agrees with what Jesus said in John 10 ...

[Jhn 10:26-30 NASB] 26 "But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep. 27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29 "My Father, who has given [them] to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch [them] out of the Father's hand. 30 "I and the Father are one."

God the Father gave the sheep to Jesus.
Jesus leads His sheep.
Those that are not His sheep will not follow.
His sheep follow Him and hear His voice (obey).
No one can remove His sheep from His hand ... they are His.

You are conflating His sheep (who DO follow) with ‘not His sheep’ (who do not follow).

Jumping to other verses will not change the words or the meaning of Galatians 5:18. If you wish to prove my accusation false, then address the verse that I quoted from you and not your strawman version of what I said.

 

[atpollard]

One, insults are not going to resolve this.
Two, the scripture says what it says.
Three, who will judge and by what measure who is led by the Spirit?
Four, I do not do the battling scripture things with accompanying insults because by my assessment it is disrespectful of the scriptures.

Really? Like this ..

God leading people by the Spirit to man choosing to do right under his own power....lol Should you not tell Davy that the whole discussion is irrelevant because you believe that man does not have free-will to choose. You cannot sneak around with this abominable theology and not have someone call you on it. Explain to Davy that you believe that heaven and hell are decided for a person by your puppet master god long before they are born.

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Your troll colors are showing, sir.

You freely make insulting accusations but then run behind a false moral high ground when asked to put up or shut up.

 

[Grailhunter]

Really? Like this ..


Your troll colors are showing, sir.

You freely make insulting accusations but then run behind a false moral high ground when asked to put up or shut up.

It is good to be honest from what perspective you are.
And yes I take exception about those who would slandering God.
But does that solve the task at hand?
Are you going to try to figure out why you can even have battling scriptures on this topic?

 

[atpollard]

You dislike answering me.
But I can still write to YOU.

I don’t think that I dislike answering you.
I think we tend to talk past one another, so our conversations are not very productive, but I have nothing against communicating with you.

We follow who we CHOOSE to follow.

Where does scripture say that?

What about ... [John 15:16, 19 NASB] 16 "You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and [that] your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you. ... 19 "If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you.

As you know A,,,your problem is that you don't believe in free will.

A half truth. I believe that people are free to choose, but because of our fallen nature we will with 100% accuracy choose for sin and against God. I also believe that the Bible teaches this in many places and nowhere teaches that men are capable of pleasing God without the supernatural help of God (the heart of flesh replacing the heart of stone).

FIRST
We hear His voice.

Verse please.

SECOND
We CHOOSE Jesus as our shepherd and so He KNOWS US.

Verse please.
John 10:29 says that God the Father gave the sheep to Jesus, not that the sheep did not choose Jesus. Furthermore, John 10:26 specifically states that the reason that they don’t believe is BECAUSE they are not His sheep. So God giving the sheep to Jesus empowers belief, rather than the choice of the sheep being the deciding factor.

THIRD
We follow Him BECAUSE we have CHOSEN Him as our shepherd.

Verse please.
Galatians 5:18 says we are “LED BY THE SPIRIT”, not that we choose to follow if we feel like it.

Yeah, as you love to say:
You're always putting the horse before the card.

• View attachment 6872

I have lots of really old sayings ... like that picture is the bees knees.

 

[atpollard]

Are you going to try to figure out why you can even have battling scriptures on this topic?

Because any scripture quoted out of context is just a pretext.

... and quoting a verse as a jumping off point to a wall of personal opinion not supported by the scripture quoted is an Olympic event among some Synergists around here.

 

[Grailhunter]

Because any scripture quoted out of context is just a pretext.

... and quoting a verse as a jumping off point to a wall of personal opinion not supported by the scripture quoted is an Olympic event among some Synergists around here.

The scriptures are actually coming from the Bible. Picking a choosing will not resolve the issue. But that is ok...let the senseless battling scriptures continue. Carry on smartly

 

[Grailhunter]

Why you can sin.

This debate material is offered in good conscious and fellowship. Love and respect to men and to women. Any negative attitude or demeanor falls short of expectations and objectives. The following is a list of scriptures that support the belief that you can sin and can be labeled a sinner. It touches on forgiveness, judgment, and consequences, but focuses on sin. It includes many scriptures but it is not a complete list. These are mostly short scriptures and I welcome anyone to read the chapters, but do not be surprised if some of these scriptures are in close proximity of scriptures that indicate you cannot sin. This is about sinning, the next debate material will include scriptures that indicate that you cannot sin. That way you can match these up for discussion. For the reading pleasure of those that like the King James Version....here it is....

Mt:12:36: But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

Mt:5:22: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Mt:7:2: For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

Hebrews 6:4-8
4: For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5: And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6: If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. 7: For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: 8: But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.


Hebrews 10: 26-31
26: For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27: But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28: He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30: For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31: It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.


2nd Peter 2:4-22
4: For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment 5: And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; 6: And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly; 7: And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: 8: (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds 9: The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished: 10: But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. 11: Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord. 12: But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they nderstand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; 13: And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you; 14: Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children: 15: Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; 16: But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet. 17: These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever. 18: For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. 19: While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. 20: For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21: For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22: But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

2Cor:5:10: For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

2Pt:2:9: The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

2Pt:3:7: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Jude:1:15: To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

Rom:1:32: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Rom:5:12: Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Rom:6:12: Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Rom:6:13: Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

Rom:6:16: Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Rom:7:23: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

1Cor:15:56: The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

Gal:3:22: But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Rom:3:23: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

1Cor:6:18: Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

 

[Grailhunter]

More of why you can sin
2Cor:12:21: And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed.

2Cor:13:2: I told you before, and foretell you, as if I were present, the second time; and being absent now I write to them which heretofore have sinned, and to all other, that, if I come again, I will not spare:

1Tm:1:15: This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

Ti:3:11: Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

Jms:4:8: Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

1Pt:4:18: And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

1Jn:1:10: If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

1Jn:3:8: He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

1Tm:5:20: Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

1Tm:5:24: Some men's sins are open beforehand, going before to judgment; and some men they follow after.

Ti:3:11: Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

Heb:2:17: Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Heb:3:13: But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

Heb:8:12: For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Heb:12:1: Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

Jms:1:15: Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Jms:2:9: But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

Jms:4:8: Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

Jms:4:17: Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Jms:5:15: And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

1Pt:4:18: And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

1Jn:1:8: If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1Jn:1:9: If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1Jn:1:10: If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

1Jn:2:1: My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

1Jn:3:4: Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

1Jn:3:6: Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

1Jn:3:8: He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

1Jn:5:16: If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

This is not about explaining away the scriptures that you do not like. Plain English, don’t get into imaginative interpretations to explain away scriptures.

 

[Grailhunter]

Why you cannot sin.

This debate material is offered in good conscious and fellowship. Love and respect to men and to women. Any negative attitude or demeanor falls short of expectations and objectives. The following is a list of scriptures that support the belief that you cannot sin. It includes many scriptures, but it is not a complete list. These are mostly short scriptures and I welcome anyone to read the chapters, but do not be surprised if some of the scriptures are in close proximity of scriptures that indicate you can sin. The following scriptures indicate that you cannot sin. These scriptures are from NASB….here it is….

Romans 4:15 “for the Law brings about wrath, but where there is no law, neither is there violation.”

1st John 3:9 “No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.”

1st John 5:18 “We know of no one that is born of God sins; but he who was born of God keeps him and the evil one does not touch him.”

Romans 4:7&8 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds have been forgiven, and whose sins have been covered. Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will not take into account.”

Romans 5:13 “For until the Law sin was in the world; sin is not imputed when there is no Law.”

This one is important but long, basically chapter 6. Romans 6:1 “What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace might increase? May it never be! How shall we who died in sin still live in it? Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, in order that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in the newness of life. For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall be also in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, that our body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin; for he who has died is freed from sin…….10 & 11 “For the death that He died, He did to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Jesus Christ. 14 “For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under the law, but under grace” 18 “Being then free from sin, you become the servants of righteousness.”

Romans 7:8 “But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead.”

Romans 8:2 “For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath me free from the law of sin and death.”

2nd Corinthians 5:21 “He made Him that knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him”

Hebrews 10:4 “For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.”

1st Cor. 9:20 “And to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law, through not being myself under the Law, that I might win those who are under the Law;”

2nd Cor. 3:3 “being manifested that you are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone, but on tablets of human hearts.”

Galations..Oh my gosh! Just read the whole thing!

Galatians 4:21 “Tell me, you who want to be under the law, do you not listen to the law?”

Galatians 5:3&4 “And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

Galatians 3:12 “Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us.....”

Hebrews 10:1 “For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things, can never by the same sacrifices year by year, which they offer continually, make perfect those who draw near.”

From here it is up to you. Why do these scriptures pertaining to the belief you can sin and the scriptures that pertain to the belief that you cannot sin seem to struggle against one another. This is not about explaining away the scriptures that you do not like. Plain English, don’t get into imaginative interpretations to explain away scriptures. From here it is up to you ladies and gents…it is up to you, but this is why you go in circles, over and over again. Figure out where the truth is between them. Good luck and God’s speed.

 

[Grailhunter]

A few more scriptures pertaining to Why you cannot sin. A little more KJV.

Gospel of John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

1Jn:3:6: Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Heb:1:3: Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Heb:9:26: For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

2Pt:1:9: But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

1Jn:1:7: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

1Jn:2:2: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1Jn:2:12: I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.

1Jn:3:5: And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

1Jn:4:10: Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

 

[GodsGrace]

Number one, you are not open, oh my. Intelligent you are, but must have a three inch skull. Here is the thing. When it comes to scriptures, wisdom given is unappreciated and often trample under foot. Wisdom found is a treasure for the rest of your life. There has to be a answer to why so many people have good, god inspired scriptures that do not make a singular point.

I'll give you one reason GH,
I've read the Early Church Fathers that are not appreciated enough in our time.
However, they were taught by the Apostles and knew some of them personally and studied with them.

So,,,they NEVER could have believed the strange beliefs we have nowadays.
They ASSUMED their readers would understand what they were writing...which they did. We do not read from writings of that time the things we hear today.

How were they to know some future teachers would teach such weird concepts?
They ASSUMED we would naturally know what was expected of us.

Unfortunately, we rip the bible apart today trying to find verses that agree with our own vision...instead of the vision Jesus had for us.

 

[Grailhunter]

I'll give you one reason GH,
I've read the Early Church Fathers that are not appreciated enough in our time.
However, they were taught by the Apostles and knew some of them personally and studied with them.

So,,,they NEVER could have believed the strange beliefs we have nowadays.
They ASSUMED their readers would understand what they were writing...which they did. We do not read from writings of that time the things we hear today.

How were they to know some future teachers would teach such weird concepts?
They ASSUMED we would naturally know what was expected of us.

Unfortunately, we rip the bible apart today trying to find verses that agree with our own vision...instead of the vision Jesus had for us.

Got that right sister!

 

[Davy]

If we do not listen to the Holy Spirit and we do not do what He shows us and we do not follow Christ ... then we are not “of His sheep”.

Just remember you said that the next time you slip and sin. I won't have to remind you, our Lord Jesus will remind you if you're one of His.