Gates, Rocks and Keys

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JohnDB

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since I love explaining this story...

A gate was a stronghold of a city. It was built nothing like the gates to castles and castle complexes like we see in the movies. It often was a labyrinth with many turns where there were parapets along the whole labyrinth before you got to the door as well so that a marauding army would attack anywhere but a gate.

Jesus was a bit of a different Schmeeka Rabbi (highest order of rabbi) than the other ones. He would often take trips (vacations) into Roman/Greek cities. Especially when a king would notice him (such as Herod did).

At the end of Jesus' ministry he took the Apostles to a city called Caesarea Philippi. This city was at the base of Mount Herman where one of the three springs that fed the Jordan River before it flowed into the Sea of Galilee.
This spring used to gush forth with such force that it was believed (by the Greeks) that the River Styx itself fed it. As a customary practice of placing a temple or idol at every water source the Romans built a temple to one of their gods here.
In the Roman world there were two main types of gods as described in our bibles. One was to Baal and the other to Ashera. Gods of Baal were ones of conflict resolution with favor resting on the one who made the more favorable sacrifice. (Blood sports) It wasn't simulated violence it was the real thing...It was believed that successful sacrifice to one of these would allow you to win your case in court, that pesky neighbor would lose and have to move or some other such thing.
There there were the Ashera gods...these were fertility gods. They would grant you children, good crops and wealth. This sort of god was appeased through sexual activity of some kind.

At Caesarea Phillipi there was a temple to the fertility god Pan. He was a half goat and half man creation. Customarily they would bring out the goats and get them to start mating and then the dancing girls would come out and dance suggestively....then it was audience participation time. And it was known to be the world's largest outdoor orgy.

For Jesus to bring the disciples there it would be rather disconcerting. These guys were just men...not raised in the Temple or as Levites...they probably had cracked jokes about the place in the past with other guys. Now....at the end of three years of following a Rabbi it was shameful and hideous to look upon all those naked bodies going at it. Contempt for such sin would be an understatement.

This is the exact place (on a nearby hillside with the "party" going on as a backdrop) where Jesus begins a lesson for the 12.

Who do people say that I am?

Peter answered with the names of three former prophets who were known for their outrageous zeal for God....otherwise known as passionate men.
All of these guys had one message about God and they were bent on delivering that message no matter what the personal cost in friendships or their lives.
(Jesus obviously mirrored these guys in passion...or maybe these prophets merely mirrored Jesus. )

Who do you say that I am?

Peter says what we expect him to say...that Jesus is the Messiah who is God himself...Emmanuel.

But not only that...all of Jesus' attributes as well...that God is sooo very good and kind....even to some of the least godly among us.

BUT...that was kind of a "no brainer" by this point. They had seen Jesus walk on water, heal the sick, give sight to the blind, heal a blind, deaf-mute man (the ultimate test for a genuine miracle of God according to the Jews (Matt 12) and feed thousands out of just a pocketful of food.

The biggest thing is that this is going on with that orgy going on in the background. Not one word of condemnation is being said about it....

the big IN OTHER WORDS

The telling how good Jesus/God really is...and that He wants us to have a relationship with him is what his "Church" or Ekklesia (lit: called out ones) is really built upon.

AND HERE'S WHATS MORE:
That when this is really embraced as your strongest thing that we ALL (the "you" is plural) have the Keys to the treasure rooms of all the power, might, and wealth that Heaven has at it's disposal to further God's kingdom. (a limitless supply)

And all of that filth of self indulgence, self importance at the expense of others, all that shameful knowledge of pleasure cannot stand up to the message that Jesus/Emmanuel (and all that He stands for) loves us in spite of our shameful ways. This "Stronghold and most fortified center of all that filth and ungodliness can't stand up to this message...the GOSPEL/Good News message.

Soooo

Yes, when Paul writes: "Therefore (because of all the stuff he said before) there is now NO CONDEMNATION for those of us in Christ Jesus." it is kinda an understatement...
 
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Thankful 1

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[font="Verdana]since I love explaining this story...

A gate was a stronghold of a city. It was built nothing like the gates to castles and castle complexes like we see in the movies. It often was a labyrinth with many turns where there were parapets along the whole labyrinth before you got to the door as well so that a marauding army would attack anywhere but a gate.

Jesus was a bit of a different Schmeeka Rabbi (highest order of rabbi) than the other ones. He would often take trips (vacations) into Roman/Greek cities. Especially when a king would notice him (such as Herod did).

At the end of Jesus' ministry he took the Apostles to a city called Caesarea Philippi. This city was at the base of Mount Herman where one of the three springs that fed the Jordan River before it flowed into the Sea of Galilee.
This spring used to gush forth with such force that it was believed (by the Greeks) that the River Styx itself fed it. As a customary practice of placing a temple or idol at every water source the Romans built a temple to one of their gods here.
In the Roman world there were two main types of gods as described in our bibles. One was to Baal and the other to Ashera. Gods of Baal were ones of conflict resolution with favor resting on the one who made the more favorable sacrifice. (Blood sports) It wasn't simulated violence it was the real thing...It was believed that successful sacrifice to one of these would allow you to win your case in court, that pesky neighbor would lose and have to move or some other such thing.
There there were the Ashera gods...these were fertility gods. They would grant you children, good crops and wealth. This sort of god was appeased through sexual activity of some kind.

At Caesarea Phillipi there was a temple to the fertility god Pan. He was a half goat and half man creation. Customarily they would bring out the goats and get them to start mating and then the dancing girls would come out and dance suggestively....then it was audience participation time. And it was known to be the world's largest outdoor orgy.

For Jesus to bring the disciples there it would be rather disconcerting. These guys were just men...not raised in the Temple or as Levites...they probably had cracked jokes about the place in the past with other guys. Now....at the end of three years of following a Rabbi it was shameful and hideous to look upon all those naked bodies going at it. Contempt for such sin would be an understatement.

This is the exact place (on a nearby hillside with the "party" going on as a backdrop) where Jesus begins a lesson for the 12.

[color="red"]Who do people say that I am?[/color]

Peter answered with the names of three former prophets who were known for their outrageous zeal for God....otherwise known as passionate men.
All of these guys had one message about God and they were bent on delivering that message no matter what the personal cost in friendships or their lives.
(Jesus obviously mirrored these guys in passion...or maybe these prophets merely mirrored Jesus. )

Who do you say that I am?

Peter says what we expect him to say...that Jesus is the Messiah who is God himself...Emmanuel.

But not only that...all of Jesus' attributes as well...that God is sooo very good and kind....even to some of the least godly among us.

BUT...that was kind of a "no brainer" by this point. They had seen Jesus walk on water, heal the sick, give sight to the blind, heal a blind, deaf-mute man (the ultimate test for a genuine miracle of God according to the Jews (Matt 12) and feed thousands out of just a pocketful of food.

The biggest thing is that this is going on with that orgy going on in the background. Not one word of condemnation is being said about it....

the big IN OTHER WORDS

The telling how good Jesus/God really is...and that He wants us to have a relationship with him is what his "Church" or Ekklesia (lit: called out ones) is really built upon.

AND HERE'S WHATS MORE:
That when this is really embraced as your strongest thing that we ALL (the "you" is plural) have the Keys to the treasure rooms of all the power, might, and wealth that Heaven has at it's disposal to further God's kingdom. (a limitless supply)

And all of that filth of self indulgence, self importance at the expense of others, all that shameful knowledge of pleasure cannot stand up to the message that Jesus/Emmanuel (and all that He stands for) loves us in spite of our shameful ways. This "Stronghold and most fortified center of all that filth and ungodliness can't stand up to this message...the GOSPEL/Good News message.

Soooo

Yes, when Paul writes: "Therefore (because of all the stuff he said before) there is now NO CONDEMNATION for those of us in Christ Jesus." it is kinda an understatement...[/font]

(1 Corinthians 6:9-19) “You know perfectly well that people who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God: people of immoral lives, idolaters, adulterers, catamites, sodomites, thieves, usurers, drunkards, slanders and swindlers will never inherit the kingdom of God.”



 

JohnDB

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(1 Corinthians 6:9-19) “You know perfectly well that people who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God: people of immoral lives, idolaters, adulterers, catamites, sodomites, thieves, usurers, drunkards, slanders and swindlers will never inherit the kingdom of God.”


And such WERE some of you; But you have been washed and cleaned.

There is NO condemnation for those of US in Christ Jesus.



 

Thankful 1

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And such WERE some of you; But you have been washed and cleaned.

There is NO condemnation for those of US in Christ Jesus.



Your so right those in Jesus will not be condemned.



Now just who are those in Jesus?



The following will tell how one becomes in Jesus.



(Acts 2:38-39) “You must repent, Peter answered and every one of you must be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise that was made is for you and your children, and for all those who are far away, for all those whom the Lord our God is calling to himself.”



Receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit.


The gifts of the Holy Spirit are many, but just to name a few.



(1 Corinthians 12:27-30) “Now you together are Christ’s body; but each of you is a different part of it. In the Church, God has given the first place to apostles, the second to prophets, the third to teachers; after them, miracles, and after them the gift of healing; helpers, good leaders, those with many languages. Are all of them apostles, or all of them prophets, or all of them teachers? Do all speak strange languages, and all interpret them?”



The Holy Spirit/Jesus will begin to teach and give one the grace to live the whole Word of God.



(1 John 2:27) “But you have not lost the anointing that he gave you, and you do not need anyone to teach you, the anointing he gave teaches you everything; you are anointed with truth, not a lie, and as it has taught you, so you must stay in him.”



Living the Word of God includes loving, even one’s enemies.



(Matthew 5:43-44) “You have learnt how it was said, you must love your neighbor and hate your enemy, but I say this to you: love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.”



(Matthew 5:39) “You have learnt how it was said: ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’ But I say this to you: offer the wicked man no resistance.”





One can’t say he or she loves if they have money stored and they keep it stored even when they know there is some one in need of that money.



(1 John 3:16-18) “This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth.”





Jesus told us the following


(Matthew 6:19) “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal.”



(Matthew 6:24)"No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.”



(Luke 12:33) “Sell your possessions and give alms. Get yourselves purses that do not wear out, treasure that will not fail you, in Heaven where no thief can reach it and no moth destroy it. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.”



(Luke 14:33) “So in the same way, none of you can be my disciple unless he gives up all his possessions.”





A Spiritual Christian is a temple of God where no sin exists.


(Romans 6:2-4) “How can we who died to sin yet live in it?

Or are you unaware that we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were indeed buried with him through baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might live in newness of life.”



(1 John 5:18) “ We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the one who was born of God keeps him safe, and the evil one cannot harm him”



(1 John 3:8) “He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work”



When one learns to obey and live the Word of God, he or she will become the home of God.



(John 14: 23) “Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.”



(1 Corinthians 2:13-14) “Therefore we teach, not in the way in which philosophy is taught, but in the way that the Spirit teaches us: we teach spiritual things spiritually. An unspiritual person is one who does not accept anything of the Spirit of God he sees it all as nonsense; it is beyond his understanding because it can only be understood by means of the Spirit.”



To maintain life in one he or she needs spiritual food.



(John 6:53-55) “How can this man give us his flesh to eat? They said. Jesus replied: ‘I tell you most solemnly, if you do not eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you will not have life in you. Anyone who does eat my flesh and drink my blood has eternal life, and I shall raise him up on the last day.”







 

Miss Hepburn

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I LOVE listening to you, John --I love your explaining.

More please, pick a topic!

:) Miss you.
 

JohnDB

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Bump
Been a long while since I posted this...
 

justbyfaith

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Can you give a biblical reference that says that Jesus spoke these words in the context of an orgy going on in the background?

Thanks in advance,

@justbyfaith.
 

theefaith

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since I love explaining this story...

A gate was a stronghold of a city. It was built nothing like the gates to castles and castle complexes like we see in the movies. It often was a labyrinth with many turns where there were parapets along the whole labyrinth before you got to the door as well so that a marauding army would attack anywhere but a gate.

Jesus was a bit of a different Schmeeka Rabbi (highest order of rabbi) than the other ones. He would often take trips (vacations) into Roman/Greek cities. Especially when a king would notice him (such as Herod did).

At the end of Jesus' ministry he took the Apostles to a city called Caesarea Philippi. This city was at the base of Mount Herman where one of the three springs that fed the Jordan River before it flowed into the Sea of Galilee.
This spring used to gush forth with such force that it was believed (by the Greeks) that the River Styx itself fed it. As a customary practice of placing a temple or idol at every water source the Romans built a temple to one of their gods here.
In the Roman world there were two main types of gods as described in our bibles. One was to Baal and the other to Ashera. Gods of Baal were ones of conflict resolution with favor resting on the one who made the more favorable sacrifice. (Blood sports) It wasn't simulated violence it was the real thing...It was believed that successful sacrifice to one of these would allow you to win your case in court, that pesky neighbor would lose and have to move or some other such thing.
There there were the Ashera gods...these were fertility gods. They would grant you children, good crops and wealth. This sort of god was appeased through sexual activity of some kind.

At Caesarea Phillipi there was a temple to the fertility god Pan. He was a half goat and half man creation. Customarily they would bring out the goats and get them to start mating and then the dancing girls would come out and dance suggestively....then it was audience participation time. And it was known to be the world's largest outdoor orgy.

For Jesus to bring the disciples there it would be rather disconcerting. These guys were just men...not raised in the Temple or as Levites...they probably had cracked jokes about the place in the past with other guys. Now....at the end of three years of following a Rabbi it was shameful and hideous to look upon all those naked bodies going at it. Contempt for such sin would be an understatement.

This is the exact place (on a nearby hillside with the "party" going on as a backdrop) where Jesus begins a lesson for the 12.

Who do people say that I am?

Peter answered with the names of three former prophets who were known for their outrageous zeal for God....otherwise known as passionate men.
All of these guys had one message about God and they were bent on delivering that message no matter what the personal cost in friendships or their lives.
(Jesus obviously mirrored these guys in passion...or maybe these prophets merely mirrored Jesus. )

Who do you say that I am?

Peter says what we expect him to say...that Jesus is the Messiah who is God himself...Emmanuel.

But not only that...all of Jesus' attributes as well...that God is sooo very good and kind....even to some of the least godly among us.

BUT...that was kind of a "no brainer" by this point. They had seen Jesus walk on water, heal the sick, give sight to the blind, heal a blind, deaf-mute man (the ultimate test for a genuine miracle of God according to the Jews (Matt 12) and feed thousands out of just a pocketful of food.

The biggest thing is that this is going on with that orgy going on in the background. Not one word of condemnation is being said about it....

the big IN OTHER WORDS

The telling how good Jesus/God really is...and that He wants us to have a relationship with him is what his "Church" or Ekklesia (lit: called out ones) is really built upon.

AND HERE'S WHATS MORE:
That when this is really embraced as your strongest thing that we ALL (the "you" is plural) have the Keys to the treasure rooms of all the power, might, and wealth that Heaven has at it's disposal to further God's kingdom. (a limitless supply)

And all of that filth of self indulgence, self importance at the expense of others, all that shameful knowledge of pleasure cannot stand up to the message that Jesus/Emmanuel (and all that He stands for) loves us in spite of our shameful ways. This "Stronghold and most fortified center of all that filth and ungodliness can't stand up to this message...the GOSPEL/Good News message.

Soooo

Yes, when Paul writes: "Therefore (because of all the stuff he said before) there is now NO CONDEMNATION for those of us in Christ Jesus." it is kinda an understatement...

Hi nice post
Do you believe that n apostolic succession? Thanks
 
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JohnDB

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Hi nice post
Do you believe that n apostolic succession? Thanks

The chain of apostolic succession was broken before it started.
Three guys all broke it. And you know their names.
Paul
James
Jude

Not a one of those guys were ever actually disciples before becoming Apostles.

Matthias was chosen as a replacement apostle that the Apostles chose but that was the last we heard of him.
God instead chose the "Christian's" biggest enemy...Saul who got renamed Paul.

Apostolic succession seems to be broken before it got started. And it was done by God so... probably not a good idea to follow through with it. But I also wouldn't exclude a worthy candidate from leadership because of training under the last guy either.
 

Prayer Warrior

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Can you give a biblical reference that says that Jesus spoke these words in the context of an orgy going on in the background?

Thanks in advance,

@justbyfaith.
I have the same question. Perhaps John will indulge us with a scripture reference or two. :)

BTW, I agree with John's conclusion here:
And all of that filth of self indulgence, self importance at the expense of others, all that shameful knowledge of pleasure cannot stand up to the message that Jesus/Emmanuel (and all that He stands for) loves us in spite of our shameful ways. This "Stronghold and most fortified center of all that filth and ungodliness can't stand up to this message...the GOSPEL/Good News message.
Those whom Jesus sets free are free indeed!
 

theefaith

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The chain of apostolic succession was broken before it started.
Three guys all broke it. And you know their names.
Paul
James
Jude

Not a one of those guys were ever actually disciples before becoming Apostles.

Matthias was chosen as a replacement apostle that the Apostles chose but that was the last we heard of him.
God instead chose the "Christian's" biggest enemy...Saul who got renamed Paul.

Apostolic succession seems to be broken before it got started. And it was done by God so... probably not a good idea to follow through with it. But I also wouldn't exclude a worthy candidate from leadership because of training under the last guy either.

what about the authority (keys) and power (bind and loose) of the successors of Moses that Jesus said must be obeyed? Matt 23 This same authority and power was taken from them matt 21:43 and given to Peter, the apostles, and their successors! Matt 16:18 & 18:18 So they are to be obeyed? Jn 20:21-23 as the father sent me I send you with the same mission, power, and authority?
 

JohnDB

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I have the same question. Perhaps John will indulge us with a scripture reference or two
There's no scripture to explain the city except the name itself and the archeology and anthropology of the time period.

When the Tetriarch Phillip rebuilt the city, expanded the temple there he renamed the city after Caesar. But there already was a city named after Caesar so this one got the subtitle of "Phillipi" . It was a blatant political act designed to curry favor. Kinda backfired too.
Caesarea Philippi - Wikipedia

That's a Wikipedia article on the city. It will say similar things that I have been. It's a somewhat famous archeological dig... recently they just dug up a copper mask of Pan...and boy howdy was it ugly.

There are other writings that aren't biblical that reference all the nuances of the city. Such as how a gate was the most defensive/offensive part of the city...how the spring gushed forth and was thought to be fed by the river Styx...
I just put it together...
 

JohnDB

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what about the authority (keys) and power (bind and loose) of the successors of Moses that Jesus said must be obeyed?

Kinda mixing things up a bit...
Keys are the access to the storerooms in Heaven to such things as the treasury, armory, and power to accomplish anything needed.

Binding and loosing is the authority to declare sin or that something is not sin.

Now the Prerequisite for access or authority is the application of the "rock" of what Jesus has just explained. (Not Peter himself) of what was the foundation of the Church/kingdom....that Jesus was a person and personable...the personal relationship with him that needed to be holy and good because Jesus was good.

Finger wagging or pointing out sin is definitely not a part of something that Heaven is going to support. It's about telling how good God really is. It's about how to access life and not condemning it.
 

JohnDB

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This same authority and power was taken from them matt 21:43 and given to Peter, the apostles, and their successors! Matt 16:18 & 18:18 So they are to be obeyed? Jn 20:21-23 as the father sent me I send you with the same mission, power, and authority?

Ok...
This is why flat reading doesn't work well. And it's completely understandable how you could come to these conclusions.
Matthew 23 is a huge rant about the religious leaders of the day. Israel was somewhat of a theocracy and somewhat not...all governments at the time were theocracies. Religion was politics and Politics was religion.
Now the Jews wanted self rule and Rome wasn't allowing it but looked the other way often when the Jews policed themselves with a lot of things.
So the Pharisees were a political party...one of many. They had many factions within themselves as well...the actual name of various political groups scriptures are blank on because they all get the label of "Pharisee". But they still held power over others.
Just like all the gods in the Old Testament weren't actually Baal or Ashera.

In Matthew 23 Jesus tells the Apostles that they have to follow the rules they set...being rude and disrespectful in Jewish culture was something of a contest to see how rude and disrespectful you could be. Jesus wanted none of that out of the Apostles. (How Paul got away with all he did is a bit of a mystery... well he really didn't get away with much)
But Jesus let's them know in no uncertain terms using their equivalent of an "F-Bomb" to express exactly how he felt. "You brood of vipers" was never going to get Jesus elected to a "Rabbi of the Year" award.

Now in Matthew 21:43 Jesus is talking about the Kingdom that they desired from the Messiah (Whom they didn't recognize) was going to be given to the Gentiles...

The Moses Seat was a stone chair in a synagogue that the presiding Rabbi would read the Torah from and if he was a schmeekah rabbi he would explain the Law/Torah.
 

theefaith

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The keys are to the kingdom which the prime minister administers for the king! Is22 no king administers His own kingdom, and binding and loosing is an absolute power, not limited to sin, whatsoever you bind on earth is bound in heaven and the apostles do have power to forgive sins Jn 20:21-23
 

theefaith

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Did the successors of Moses have the keys and the power to bind and loose?
 

justbyfaith

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and the apostles do have power to forgive sins Jn 20:21-23

As does anyone who has truly been given the Holy Spirit, by my estimation.

Which would exclude certain catholic priests; because they do not have the Holy Spirit but only a sketchy authority that has been transferred to them by the people above them (whether justly or unjustly).
 

JohnDB

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the apostles do have power to forgive sins Jn 20:21-23

Ummm....
That's not what that is intended to mean.
They are not God nor did Jesus abdicate his responsibilities.
They were being given "forth telling" prophet status.... meaning that they could accurately tell the truth about someone.

Peter failed miserably after this too... remember how Paul had to tell him to quit being a jerk?


Do you understand what the term "Holy" means and all that it entails?
(It's related)
 
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JohnDB

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As does anyone who has truly been given the Holy Spirit, by my estimation.

Which would exclude certain catholic priests; because they do not have the Holy Spirit but only a sketchy authority that has been transferred to them by the people above them (whether justly or unjustly).
Forgiveness of sins is God's responsibility...that would be along the lines of judgement....again God's job. Not ours.

Stephan's last words when he was getting stoned reflects this.